Would you like to receive universal basic income??

[Adnium_Ivana]

As tech threatens jobs, we must test a universal basic income

It?s possible that within 20 years almost half of all jobs will be lost to machines.

People who say technology has the power to create jobs fail to recognise the ?superstar economy?, where a handful of companies make billions and employ very few people.

So how would we all survive? One of the most interesting proposals is the creation of an unconditional basic income.

It?s a simple idea with big consequences. The state would give a monthly spend to every citizen, regardless of income.

The key criticism is that it would kill the incentive to work. But experiments done in Canada and 20 villages in India have found that not only did people not stop working, but they were more likely to start new businesses or perform socially beneficial activities compared with the control groups.

The city of Utrecht in the Netherlands has started a new UBI pilot, with a view to extending it to 300,000 residents, so we will wait and see.

What do you think?
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From the sounds of this, universal income sounds like an uneasy hybrid of minimum wage + welfare assistance. I can see this system leveraging the burden for lower income and working class families however I see problems implementing this income for everyone as suggested here ...(why would you give this to a millionaire?)...not to mention the sheer logistics of integrating this with a nation's tax and financial systems & institutions.

Thoughts?

[BlackCrayon]

fuck no.

[CurrentlySober]

I'd like to receive ANYTHING... I'm fucking skint...

[suesheboy]

Been discussing this for years.

There will be a revolt here in the USA and you can be sure immigration will be shut down.

[Google Expert]

[Struggle4Bucks]

Originally Posted by Adnium_Ivana

As tech threatens jobs, we must test a universal basic income

It?s possible that within 20 years almost half of all jobs will be lost to machines.

People who say technology has the power to create jobs fail to recognise the ?superstar economy?, where a handful of companies make billions and employ very few people.

So how would we all survive? One of the most interesting proposals is the creation of an unconditional basic income.

It?s a simple idea with big consequences. The state would give a monthly spend to every citizen, regardless of income.

The key criticism is that it would kill the incentive to work. But experiments done in Canada and 20 villages in India have found that not only did people not stop working, but they were more likely to start new businesses or perform socially beneficial activities compared with the control groups.

The city of Utrecht in the Netherlands has started a new UBI pilot, with a view to extending it to 300,000 residents, so we will wait and see.

What do you think?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the sounds of this, universal income sounds like an uneasy hybrid of minimum wage + welfare assistance. I can see this system leveraging the burden for lower income and working class families however I see problems implementing this income for everyone as suggested here ...(why would you give this to a millionaire?)...not to mention the sheer logistics of integrating this with a nation's tax and financial systems & institutions.

Thoughts?

Unemployed persons don't have the money to spend it on products from these superstar companies with few employees... So... superstarcompanies with few employees and a worldwide unemployment problem is a contradiction that won't go hand in hand...

[Klen]

I think how it should not be non-conditional , meaning how everyone who would receive it should give something in return even if there is no value to anyone. So for example, if you are good at making cookies, then you should make some cookies to earn that income.

[Wizzo]

Perhaps a good name for this experiment would be the Soviet Union?

[Vendot]

I think how it should not be non-conditional , meaning how everyone who would receive it should give something in return even if there is no value to anyone.

Too damn right and a lot of people suspect its just going to be highly inflationary to throw money at people and watch them spend it. However, the government wants inflation more than anything and that is why this has been proposed.

https://pro.creditwritedowns.com/201...ic-income.html

How many times I have to say, that this is coming at some point and its 100% certainty, the only question is what form will it take. Bill Gross and others have spoken about this many, many times. It's the ONLY solution to the worlds problems right now.

[woj]

Originally Posted by Wizzo

Perhaps a good name for this experiment would be the Soviet Union?

Soviet Union was a bit more thought out than this scheme, everyone there worked, or at least pretended to do so... with this scheme most would not, so it would be 10x bigger fuck up than Soviet Union was...

so like 2nd poster said "fuck no"....

[Barry-xlovecam]

People will be needed to build, operate and maintain the machines.

Those that are left standing will make great wages if they have these skills.
The cost and efficiencies will change.
The USA (and other technologically advanced nations) will be 'great again.'

[pimpmaster9000]

the last kick of the can down the road...when all else fail print print print...

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

I think how it should not be non-conditional , meaning how everyone who would receive it should give something in return even if there is no value to anyone. So for example, if you are good at making cookies, then you should make some cookies to earn that income.

thats communism man.

[woj]

Originally Posted by Vendot

It's the ONLY solution to the worlds problems right now.

problem is imaginary, there is and always will be plenty of work...

can you think of any work that could be done if it could be done for free? I can think of 100s of examples, anything from picking up litter on the side of the highway, to helping elderly cook dinner, etc...

why free you ask? cause there is substantial % of population living off government $$ already and not doing shit, sending them to do some productive work would cost nothing extra...

[Relic]

[Adnium_Ivana]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

People will be needed to build, operate and maintain the machines.

Those that are left standing will make great wages if they have these skills.
The cost and efficiencies will change.
The USA (and other technologically advanced nations) will be 'great again.'

Love this movie..."it's not food...Soylent Green is people!"

[mineistaken]

fuck no.

Only leftist parasites think it is a god idea.

[Rochard]

I've given this some thought. One of the things that has always amazed me is world population numbers.

I do see a time where eventually there will be less and less jobs. You can argue that there will always be a need for a human somewhere along the line, but eventually that will become less and less. Eventually they will be able to create robots that can do everything we can do. Truck drivers, taxi cab drivers, delivery drivers, bus drivers.... Will no longer have jobs. Same with food prep and serving - Push a button and a hamburger comes out. I watched a video the other day where a robot laid two thousand bricks in two hours for the foundation of a house.

I think eventually some people will have some kind of "universal income" but also think that companies will be required by law to have a certain amount of employees if only just to give us something to do.

[CaptainHowdy]

Yes, pretty please??

[JSWENSON]

I don't give a rats ass about free money but it will be a necessity in the near future. Automation is going to change the world more than anything else in history, extremely disruptive. Anyone here against UBI has zero understanding of what is in store for society or how fucked up the income disparity is today.

Our production levels are through the roof but even those getting paid are receiving a fraction of their worth with many barely able to make ends meet. Come back to this post in 10-15 years and see what you think then.

[MrMaxwell]

There is no WAY that I believe in that working
I've seen what free money slow drip does to people and to their lives
Id much rather be completely fucked when I'm broke
Otherwise what would ever cause me to be productive and improve as a man
Not much of fuck all
Helping people be helpless is not helpful

[JSWENSON]

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

There is no WAY that I believe in that working
I've seen what free money slow drip does to people and to their lives
Id much rather be completely fucked when I'm broke
Otherwise what would ever cause me to be productive and improve as a man
Not much of fuck all
Helping people be helpless is not helpful

People are productive because it's boring as hell to do anything else. Lazy people will be lazy, what value is really added to society by flipping burgers at McDonalds when a robot can do it? Further, it's a small basic income. People will still want nice things and they will work in addition to that but society will focus on shit that actually matters much more if everyone is fed and not out robbing people to afford food.

[kane]

Originally Posted by woj

problem is imaginary, there is and always will be plenty of work...

can you think of any work that could be done if it could be done for free? I can think of 100s of examples, anything from picking up litter on the side of the highway, to helping elderly cook dinner, etc...

why free you ask? cause there is substantial % of population living off government $$ already and not doing shit, sending them to do some productive work would cost nothing extra...

The problem with putting people who are on welfare to work it that it makes it harder for them to then get off of welfare. I'm not saying they should just be allowed to lay around and do nothing, but if you make someone work 40 hours a week to get their welfare, they won't have time to go to school or get another job (or at least they will have a lot less time to do so) and it will cause them stay on the welfare, working the shitty jobs forever.

I say people on welfare should be forced to get some kind of training or education that will help them get a decent job while they are on welfare. I would rather pay once to get them some kind of training so they can go out and get a good job then pay for them to stay in the system for 20 years.

[_Richard_]

distribution of wealth has always been the Achilles heel of any society. Id be curious to see studies before jumping to conclusions, however UBI seems like a more choice driven version of workcamps

[ContentPimp]

Originally Posted by Adnium_Ivana

As tech threatens jobs, we must test a universal basic income

It?s possible that within 20 years almost half of all jobs will be lost to machines.

People who say technology has the power to create jobs fail to recognise the ?superstar economy?, where a handful of companies make billions and employ very few people.

So how would we all survive? One of the most interesting proposals is the creation of an unconditional basic income.

It?s a simple idea with big consequences. The state would give a monthly spend to every citizen, regardless of income.

The key criticism is that it would kill the incentive to work. But experiments done in Canada and 20 villages in India have found that not only did people not stop working, but they were more likely to start new businesses or perform socially beneficial activities compared with the control groups.

The city of Utrecht in the Netherlands has started a new UBI pilot, with a view to extending it to 300,000 residents, so we will wait and see.

What do you think?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the sounds of this, universal income sounds like an uneasy hybrid of minimum wage + welfare assistance. I can see this system leveraging the burden for lower income and working class families however I see problems implementing this income for everyone as suggested here ...(why would you give this to a millionaire?)...not to mention the sheer logistics of integrating this with a nation's tax and financial systems & institutions.

Thoughts?

In relation to what you have said about
"It?s possible that within 20 years almost half of all jobs will be lost to machines"

There is one humanlike robot unveiled in China which could be the start of human invasion of robots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0_DPi0PmF0

[Joshua G]

i was looking at automated pet feeders, & right now you cant get one that can feed your pet forever...but its coming. soon your pet wont need you to live.

its already happening that capital does not need labor anymore. How many jobs, & entire industries, have lost jobs to automation. A human hand cannot make a silicon chip.

a guaranteed check is inevitable. it will be like minimum wage, never enough to get by. people will need to run online businesses in order to make ends meet, or get rich. so hard working people will still make a lot more than the poor, who send their money to lottos & drugs.

[wehateporn]

Either give people the money to cover their basic needs (food, shelter etc) or cover their basic needs for them. Fortunately we don't have to pay for air to breathe, but we do have to pay for food and shelter. I don't believe our basic human needs should be used against us to force service/labor out of us, at least not in the First World where our basic needs can easily be met. So yes, I'm strongly in favor of one way or the other covering a person's basic needs either with a payment or using another method, then anything else that a person wants they have to earn it.

[ContentPimp]

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

There is no WAY that I believe in that working
I've seen what free money slow drip does to people and to their lives
Id much rather be completely fucked when I'm broke
Otherwise what would ever cause me to be productive and improve as a man
Not much of fuck all
Helping people be helpless is not helpful

Hundred percent agree with you man!
The best way to help people is to teach them to help themselves.
Universal Basic Income will just lead to people being dependent knowing that there will be income that they will receive whether they work their butt off or not.

It is just like the principle of "Sowing and Reaping"
What you work hard in the beginning will give you beneficial roots, in the end.

[shimmy2]

i used to work as lead accountant (actual job title) for an indian reservation in minnesota. they all got various forms of universal basic income from government and their casino operations. more power to them. but as a result almost nobody there worked. they imported canadians by the busload and poor negroes like myself to do all their manual and office labor. i admire that. very much how like in dubai you never see any arabs working, their airport is full of indians, filipinos, and blue black african slaves. i'm all for universal basic income and manual labor automation.

[woj]

Originally Posted by kane

The problem with putting people who are on welfare to work it that it makes it harder for them to then get off of welfare. I'm not saying they should just be allowed to lay around and do nothing, but if you make someone work 40 hours a week to get their welfare, they won't have time to go to school or get another job (or at least they will have a lot less time to do so) and it will cause them stay on the welfare, working the shitty jobs forever.

I say people on welfare should be forced to get some kind of training or education that will help them get a decent job while they are on welfare. I would rather pay once to get them some kind of training so they can go out and get a good job then pay for them to stay in the system for 20 years.

solution to that is pretty simple... you work unless you qualify for an exemption...
- you show that you are going to school - no need to work
- you show you have a job interview on Tuesday - no need to show up to work on Tuesday
etc

plus certain details could be polished up, like it kicks in only after 1 month of unemployment.... after 1 month you have to work 10 hours per week.... after 2 months 20 hours.... after 4 months, you are working full time....

many will obviously game this setup, but some will get a hint: "gee, going to school is a lot better than picking litter on the side of the highway, I'll do that instead"...

[Klen]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

thats communism man.

No. Goal would be to get from people best of them, and many times this does not happen due papers, regulations and other stuff. So for example you could have a nuclear scientist working in mcdonalds, and with universal income he could still do stuff in his field.

[HowlingWulf]

Sound crazy to me but if they have evidence of this improving the economy I want to see it.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by JSWENSON

I don't give a rats ass about free money but it will be a necessity in the near future. Automation is going to change the world more than anything else in history, extremely disruptive. Anyone here against UBI has zero understanding of what is in store for society or how fucked up the income disparity is today.

Our production levels are through the roof but even those getting paid are receiving a fraction of their worth with many barely able to make ends meet. Come back to this post in 10-15 years and see what you think then.

so why not just have people do it instead of robots or pay people more? wouldn't the end result be the same but people would have jobs.

[shimmy2]

home depot and walmart in the states have more self checkouts than regular lanes yet there is still a lot of rejection in most folks using them. the future where shelves are automatically stocked (and inventory replinished by driverless trucks) and cashier machines take your money is already here or in motion. in other words there is not much unskilled grunt labor remaining. i can imagine when landscaping businesses are put out of work by roomba style lawnmowers. UBI is neccesary for social control where there is no viable employment (ie: canada, indian reservations, etc) else people gonna get it how they live

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

thats communism man.

from the Russians: they pretend to pay us, we pretend to work.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Struggle4Bucks

Unemployed persons don't have the money to spend it on products from these superstar companies with few employees... So... superstarcompanies with few employees and a worldwide unemployment problem is a contradiction that won't go hand in hand...

This is the problem. When all products are made by machines and 90% are unemployed, who buys the products?

China will go broke when it doesn't have the EU and EU buying its products.

Even surgeons are being replaced by computers because computers are better surgeons.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

People will be needed to build, operate and maintain the machines.

Those that are left standing will make great wages if they have these skills.
The cost and efficiencies will change.
The USA (and other technologically advanced nations) will be 'great again.'

And what will those machines make, if there are not enough customers to buy the goods?

You do realise computers can now build, operate and maintain machines.

As for the USA being great again, tell the Chinese that.

Sooooo we want communism?

No thank you. I prefer capitalism.

[kane]

Originally Posted by woj

solution to that is pretty simple... you work unless you qualify for an exemption...
- you show that you are going to school - no need to work
- you show you have a job interview on Tuesday - no need to show up to work on Tuesday
etc

plus certain details could be polished up, like it kicks in only after 1 month of unemployment.... after 1 month you have to work 10 hours per week.... after 2 months 20 hours.... after 4 months, you are working full time....

many will obviously game this setup, but some will get a hint: "gee, going to school is a lot better than picking litter on the side of the highway, I'll do that instead"...

I'm sure there is some way to create a happy medium with this and, as you say, there are always people who will find some way to game the system. To me, in a perfect world, the number one priority we should have when people go on welfare is helping them get off of it, whatever that may entail.

[DrJsn]

I think the governments should spend more money on education instead of giving the money away. Pay for everyone to go to college or university. Make people smarter.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Wizzo

Perhaps a good name for this experiment would be the Soviet Union?

Ah Hahaha

[baddog]

Originally Posted by DrJsn

I think the governments should spend more money on education instead of giving the money away. Pay for everyone to go to college or university. Make people smarter.

To do what?

[baddog]

Originally Posted by shimmy2

home depot and walmart in the states have more self checkouts than regular lanes

Hey. Hope all is well. Not like I frequent a lot of Walmart and Home Depot, but my experience says "bullshit"

[brassmonkey]

i would like to see public colleges.

[DrJsn]

Originally Posted by baddog

To do what?

So they have more skills and training to compete for higher paying work. Or to teach people how to setup their own business.

[mlmleads]

UBI is easy. Stop charging people W2 taxes. Done deal. Employers save money, Employess keep what they earn. Make it up with a Universal consumption tax (Sales tax). That would stop ALL forms of tax evasion. Corporate or otherwise. It would also tax 100% of the underground economy because you eventually are spending your gains in some way.

The government and the people that are a part of it are a giant collection of retards. Name a country and the same holds true.

[candyflip]

Originally Posted by baddog

Hey. Hope all is well. Not like I frequent a lot of Walmart and Home Depot, but my experience says "bullshit"

Definitely the case at Home Depot. Walmart here is 50/50 with less than a handful of registers open with actual cashiers.

Target has a bunch of them now too. Walked into a store the other day to find 1/4 of the registers replaced with self checkouts.

[DBS.US]

Originally Posted by shimmy2

home depot and walmart in the states have more self checkouts than regular lanes yet there is still a lot of rejection in most folks using them. the future where shelves are automatically stocked (and inventory replinished by driverless trucks) and cashier machines take your money is already here or in motion. in other words there is not much unskilled grunt labor remaining. i can imagine when landscaping businesses are put out of work by roomba style lawnmowers. UBI is neccesary for social control where there is no viable employment (ie: canada, indian reservations, etc) else people gonna get it how they live

A grocery store called Fresh & Easy had a store in Palos Verdes Estates that had only self checkouts. they went bankrupt

[Struggle4Bucks]

Originally Posted by Adnium_Ivana

It?s possible that within 20 years almost half of all jobs will be lost to machines.

The most vulnerable jobs in regard to "losing them to robots" are the assembly-line jobs: Work that does not require much judgment. As a matter of fact most of the western workers are allready replaced by robots: The Asian workforce! The percentage of workers still involved in manufacturing in, for example, America is only about 10%. The shift of assembly-line labor to developing countries did not lead to mass unemployment.

Conclussion: if robot labor leads to mass unemployment it will be mass unemployment in Asia...

Introducing UBI because of mass unemployment caused by robots is just totally plucked out of thin air.

[JFK]

Fo sho, gotta pay my Maid from sumthin