Democracy RIP

[Odysseus]

But with Trump can be reborn again!
Yes or No?
What do you think?

[onwebcam]

Not sure because

[oppoten]

^ O' fo' sho'

[Odysseus]

[mikesouth]

I wish you people would educate yourselves, we dont now, nor have we ever lived in a democracy and truth is you would NOT want to.

[NatalieK]

bump for answers from Trumpets

[TheDynasty]

Obama 2018

[Joshua G]

dumb libs think 1 state should decide the presidential winner, just because that state is saturated with lotomized social justice morons that think illegals are citizens too. oh, & that state allowed millions of illegals to vote, too.

how democratic.

[mineistaken]

thanks, Donald

[CaptainHowdy]

Trump will, first and foremost, save himself.

[marlboroack]

Yes

[Odysseus]

Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?!

[kane]

Originally Posted by Joshua G

dumb libs think 1 state should decide the presidential winner, just because that state is saturated with lotomized social justice morons that think illegals are citizens too. oh, & that state allowed millions of illegals to vote, too.

how democratic.

If you are speaking of the Electoral College, you couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, the opposite is true.

Let's look at this last election. If Hillary Clinton won 100% of the vote in California she would get somewhere in the ballpark of 11.5 - 12 million votes. There were about 129 million votes cast. Winning every vote in Cali doesn't get her anywhere near the White House.

So, let's take at look at the top 4 most populous states. That would be Cali, Texas, Florida, and New York. If one candidate won every vote in all four of those states they would end up with somewhere in the ballpark of about 37 million votes.Still, a long way from a majority.

Meanwhile, in 2000 it all came down to who won Florida. There were millions of votes that didn't matter because those people live in states where one candidate or the other won the state easily, yet we were bringing in armies of lawyers to look at dangling and pregnant chads and counting every last ballot in Florida because whoever won that one state would win it all.

The electoral college encourages people not to vote. It encourages voter fraud, voter suppression, and other shenanigans because the parties know that there are certain states that are going to be close and are very important so they get all the attention and they fight over a handful of votes while millions around the country often don't vote or don't care because they live in dark red or dark blue states.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by kane

If you are speaking of the Electoral College, you couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, the opposite is true.

Let's look at this last election. If Hillary Clinton won 100% of the vote in California she would get somewhere in the ballpark of 11.5 - 12 million votes. There were about 129 million votes cast. Winning every vote in Cali doesn't get her anywhere near the White House.

So, let's take at look at the top 4 most populous states. That would be Cali, Texas, Florida, and New York. If one candidate won every vote in all four of those states they would end up with somewhere in the ballpark of about 37 million votes.Still, a long way from a majority.

Meanwhile, in 2000 it all came down to who won Florida. There were millions of votes that didn't matter because those people live in states where one candidate or the other won the state easily, yet we were bringing in armies of lawyers to look at dangling and pregnant chads and counting every last ballot in Florida because whoever won that one state would win it all.

The electoral college encourages people not to vote. It encourages voter fraud, voter suppression, and other shenanigans because the parties know that there are certain states that are going to be close and are very important so they get all the attention and they fight over a handful of votes while millions around the country often don't vote or don't care because they live in dark red or dark blue states.

kane.

stop it. just use the facts of this election.

take california out of the election, like it seceded... Trump wins both the popular & the electoral. in a popular vote contest, trump won the 49 states by a cool million, with california being the sole reason libs are whining about the 3 million more people that voted for hilary & were cheated.

so in a popular vote contest, california alone would've overrided the will of 49 other states. simple as that. all because it has that massive concentration of illegals that literally turned the big red state blue over the past 20 years. documented fact.

can you imagine a recount election in a national popular vote? you have to recount all 50 states! & you only have to commit fraud in 1 huge state to win the whole thing. imagine having every state in the nation doing recounts due to a super-close race? thats crazy! with 2000, 1 state had to recount, not all 50...

in a popular vote, its a lot more easy to steal an election rigging 1 big state, vs rigging 50 states running their own elections.

just use facts when replying kane, not hypotheticals. thanks.

[Paul Markham]

Only voters can bring back democracy. Before you vote look at what the politician did while in office. Did he represent you or his donors in big business?

[Joshua G]

PS kane...the founding fathers hashed out these exact ideas when they decided to deliberately not allow direct democracy for the president. small states would never have ratified a constitution that gave boston & NYC the total power to decide the president. thats historical fact.

the electoral vote forces any president wannabe to campaign in more states, not only 1 or 2. it forces MORE DIVERSITY in who the candidates appeal to, NOT JUST CITY VOTERS...RURAL VOTERS MATTER!!!

you would tthink a system that over-represents minority interests would be something liberals support. oh wait, they do...affirmative action.

libs only like rigged advantages for minorities when it gives them more power, not less.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Joshua G

kane.

stop it. just use the facts of this election.

take california out of the election, like it seceded... Trump wins both the popular & the electoral. in a popular vote contest, trump won the 49 states by a cool million, with california being the sole reason libs are whining about the 3 million more people that voted for hilary & were cheated.

so in a popular vote contest, california alone would've overrided the will of 49 other states. simple as that. all because it has that massive concentration of illegals that literally turned the big red state blue over the past 20 years. documented fact.

can you imagine a recount election in a national popular vote? you have to recount all 50 states! & you only have to commit fraud in 1 huge state to win the whole thing. imagine having every state in the nation doing recounts due to a super-close race? thats crazy! with 2000, 1 state had to recount, not all 50...

in a popular vote, its a lot more easy to steal an election rigging 1 big state, vs rigging 50 states running their own elections.

just use facts when replying kane, not hypotheticals. thanks.

I used a simple fact called Math.

I stand by my numbers. If a candidate got 100% of the vote in Cali, Texas, Florida, and New York they would only get about 37 million votes. We are spread out enough around this country that any candidate would have to wage a national campaign in order to get enough total votes to win.

Our cities are also diverse enough now that people of all types live there. Look at California. Trump admits he didn't even bother campaigning there because he knew he couldn't win yet he still got about 30% of the vote. If he actually campaigned there he likely could have gotten 40% or even more of the vote. At the same time, Hillary didn't campaign much in Texas for the same reason and she got 40% of the vote there.

Thinking that one big city or state could control a general election is simply wrong. The math doesn't support it.

I will admit, if the election were very close and a recount had to happen, it would likely be a much bigger pain in the ass, but we are smart, I'm sure we could figure something out.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Joshua G

PS kane...the founding fathers hashed out these exact ideas when they decided to deliberately not allow direct democracy for the president. small states would never have ratified a constitution that gave boston & NYC the total power to decide the president. thats historical fact.

the electoral vote forces any president wannabe to campaign in more states, not only 1 or 2. it forces MORE DIVERSITY in who the candidates appeal to, NOT JUST CITY VOTERS...RURAL VOTERS MATTER!!!

you would tthink a system that over-represents minority interests would be something liberals support. oh wait, they do...affirmative action.

libs only like rigged advantages for minorities when it gives them more power, not less.

The days of having to campaign in small states are long gone. There was a map I saw not too long ago that showed every campaign stop made by both candidates in this last election. About half the states didn't get visited by either candidate and a few states like Florida were visited over 20 times by each. The only states that really matter to anyone trying to win the White House are those battleground states they think they can win.

What is interesting to me is that one of the reasons the EC was formed was to stop a "tyrant" type candidate from being able to manipulate the general population and win the election. The EC could act as a buffer and keep this bad person from taking office. Yet, today, if the EC were to act and stop a candidate from taking office there would be riots in the streets because everyone expects the Electors to do what the voters tell them to do.

Rural voters do matter, but so to city voters. Just because a person lives in a city doesn't mean their vote should be any less valuable than someone who lives in the country.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by kane

The days of having to campaign in small states are long gone. There was a map I saw not too long ago that showed every campaign stop made by both candidates in this last election. About half the states didn't get visited by either candidate and a few states like Florida were visited over 20 times by each. The only states that really matter to anyone trying to win the White House are those battleground states they think they can win.

What is interesting to me is that one of the reasons the EC was formed was to stop a "tyrant" type candidate from being able to manipulate the general population and win the election. The EC could act as a buffer and keep this bad person from taking office. Yet, today, if the EC were to act and stop a candidate from taking office there would be riots in the streets because everyone expects the Electors to do what the voters tell them to do.

Rural voters do matter, but so to city voters. Just because a person lives in a city doesn't mean their vote should be any less valuable than someone who lives in the country.

dude. you watched a different election than me. Donald campaigned in Wisconsin, while hilary did hollywood fundraisers. look what happened.

the candidates focus where the swings are. that mix of states changes over time. thats why declarations from the media that hilary owns michigan & wisconson, were false. thats why ohio matters one cycle, florida matters another cycle. now virginia is a contested state, not a lock state. so the media cares about states that are close.

simply stated, the electoral college makes different states important, depending on the changes in the country over time. california will matter again when it swings, not when its cemented into 1 party.

the system requires our candidates to disproportionately appeal to rural voters over city voters. you are only butt hurt about that because it inhibits the liberal agenda. you libs never whine about C students getting into yale over A students because of their race.

stop it.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Joshua G

dude. you watched a different election than me. Donald campaigned in Wisconsin, while hilary did hollywood fundraisers. look what happened.

the candidates focus where the swings are. that mix of states changes over time. thats why declarations from the media that hilary owns michigan & wisonconson, were false. thats why ohio matters one cycle, florida matters another cycle. now virginia is a contested state, not a lock state. so the media cares about states that are close.

simply stated, the electoral college makes different states important, depending on the changes in the country over time. california will matter again when it swings, not when its cemented into 1 party.

the system requires our candidates to disproportionately appeal to rural voters over city voters. you are only butt hurt about that because it inhibits the liberal agenda. you libs never whine about C students getting into yale over A students because of their race.

stop it.

Party politics doesn't matter to me. Sure, some states are more important in some cycles than others. Roughly the same 10-12 states have been "battleground" states the last 20 years, but that will likely change at some point in the future.

All I want is every vote to count the same no matter where you live.

If it were a popular election the candidates would be forced to campaign almost everywhere (they would all likely skip the smallest states still) because they wold need to appeal to voters in all areas in order to get enough votes to win.

[AaronM]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

i wish you people would educate yourselves, we dont now, nor have we ever lived in a democracy and truth is you would not want to.

a fucken men!