Turns out Flynn wasn't acting alone

[Rochard]

It seems Flynn wasn't working alone when he was negotiating with Russia over the lifting of sanctions. It seems Trump's attorney Michael Cohen delivered a proposal to Flynn that would lift the sanctions. It turns out this proposal was created in part by Felix Sater, who has worked for Trump on various Russian deals with Andrii Artemenko, a Ukrainian attorney.

It's pretty clear all of these people didn't conspire together behind Trump's back to put this all together.

The proposal to lift the sanctions included allowing Russia to keep Crimea, as well as parts of Ukraine that Russia already has troops in. Basically. the Trump administration had sold out part of Ukraine before they were legally in office, and without so much as consulting the State Department.

And everyone in the Trump administration is lying about it.

[JohnnyClips - BANNED FOR LIFE]

OMG BREAKING NEWS! And still perfectly legal...you do know the administration can talk to other countries, right?

ROFL

[Matt 26z]

Originally Posted by Rochard

It seems Flynn wasn't working alone when he was negotiating with Russia over the lifting of sanctions. It seems Trump's attorney Michael Cohen delivered a proposal to Flynn that would lift the sanctions. It turns out this proposal was created in part by Felix Sater, who has worked for Trump on various Russian deals with Andrii Artemenko, a Ukrainian attorney.

It's pretty clear all of these people didn't conspire together behind Trump's back to put this all together.

The proposal to lift the sanctions included allowing Russia to keep Crimea, as well as parts of Ukraine that Russia already has troops in. Basically. the Trump administration had sold out part of Ukraine before they were legally in office, and without so much as consulting the State Department.

And everyone in the Trump administration is lying about it.

I'll take this at face value and just say.... OH THE HORROR. So Trump started getting plans in place a bit early. Who cares?

If you want to talk about a real treasonous scandal, let's talk about Obama sending word to Iran to not cut a deal with Bush since he would give them a better deal if he got elected. Trump was already elected and headed to office.

[Matt 26z]

And this Crimea stuff is so stupid. The people of Crimea are Russian blood. They wanted nothing to do with Ukraine and voted themselves out. Now they are back with Russia where they have traditionally been.

Celebrations in Crimea. These people don't look like they are under the boot of evil Vlad Putin now do they?

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

I'll take this at face value and just say.... OH THE HORROR. So Drumpf started getting plans in place a bit early. Who cares?

Who cares?

The United States has one leader at a time, one government. The president elect and his staff cannot negotiate on behalf of the United States. This is against the law. The entire Trump administration is lying about this and is trying to cover this up.

[Matt 26z]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Who cares?

The United States has one leader at a time, one government. The president elect and his staff cannot negotiate on behalf of the United States. This is against the law. The entire Trump administration is lying about this and is trying to cover this up.

Even if it happened, Obama wasn't speaking to Russia. So it's not like Trump was undercutting an existing discussion.

Obama should be in prison right now for getting involved with Iran before he was even elected. Not to mention he also sold US ambassadorships to top DNC individual donors.

[Joshua G]

love how the neo-liberal rochard thinks we should be deciding for russia & ukraine who owns crimea.

& private businessman trump with russian business connections has talks about removing politically motivated sanctions that were only applied because obama had a hissy fit about losing the election.

what a scandal.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

Even if it happened, Obama wasn't speaking to Russia. So it's not like Drumpf was undercutting an existing discussion.

Obama should be in prison right now for getting involved with Iran before he was even elected. Not to mention he also sold US ambassadorships to top DNC individual donors.

Why do you keep going back to Obama? Is that your own defense?

If you want to go back and dig up the past, what about Reagan? What did he work out with Iran to get the hostages released moments after he was sworn in?

Obama sold ambassadorships to top DNC donors? My god, Trump just put Betsy Devos in as the Secretary of Education. Not only does this woman have ZERO experience, she's never attended public school nor has her kids. I'm more qualified than she is.

Trump broke the law, and now is trying to cover it up.

[NewNick]

Originally Posted by Joshua G

love how the neo-liberal rochard thinks we should be deciding for russia & ukraine who owns crimea.

& private businessman trump with russian business connections has talks about removing politically motivated sanctions that were only applied because obama had a hissy fit about losing the election.

what a scandal.

Politically motivated sanctions ? Oh the horror.

Not sure what other type there are.

[JohnnyClips - BANNED FOR LIFE]

So the current administration can't talk to Russia because you don't like Russia?

[Barry-xlovecam]

It won't be long now ;O)

Flynn was just the fall guy


eat this trolls

[TCLGirls]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

Even if it happened, Obama wasn't speaking to Russia. So it's not like Trump was undercutting an existing discussion.

Obama should be in prison right now for getting involved with Iran before he was even elected. Not to mention he also sold US ambassadorships to top DNC individual donors.

Not speaking to a country can be a negotiation tactic.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Joshua G

love how the neo-liberal rochard thinks we should be deciding for russia & ukraine who owns crimea.

I surely don't think a private citizen in the United States should be making that decision.

[NatalieK]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

It won't be long now ;O)

Flynn was just the fall guy


eat this trolls

[AndyA]

In the history of GFY has anyone EVER said

"you know what, you have an interesting point I didn't consider before... I'm thinking I'm now a Democrat"

because in the history of me talking to republicans within my own family it's like talking to zombies... they have been bitten and it's not going away.

[JohnnyClips - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by AndyA

In the history of GFY has anyone EVER said

"you know what, you have an interesting point I didn't consider before... I'm thinking I'm now a Democrat"

because in the history of me talking to republicans within my own family it's like talking to zombies... they have been bitten and it's not going away.

Project much?

[Rochard]

SAYS WHO?

[Rochard]

This just gets better and better.

Cohen denies meeting anyone, denies he delivered any letter.... and denies working on any peace plan..... Seems this is not true at all.

Lawmaker: Trump lawyer pushed Ukraine deal - CNNPolitics.com

Surprise, surprise, surprise.

In short, everyone is saying they took no part in this and that the Trump administration didn't take part of this. Turns out this is all lies. Trump knew all about this, and if he didn't order this directly he surely encouraged it.

[Barry-xlovecam]

The Russians get a 50-100 yr lease of Crimea's land and waters use rights but Ukraine retains the mineral rights underground and in Crimea's territorial waters.

Let's see if Russia agrees to that

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

I'll take this at face value and just say.... OH THE HORROR. So Trump started getting plans in place a bit early. Who cares?

If you want to talk about a real treasonous scandal, let's talk about Obama sending word to Iran to not cut a deal with Bush since he would give them a better deal if he got elected. Trump was already elected and headed to office.

Or Reagan in 1980 negotiating the release of the hostages in Iran so that they would not be released until he became President.

The media sure has a short memory. Their relentless attempt to undermine the President is just pathetic.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Who cares?

The United States has one leader at a time, one government. The president elect and his staff cannot negotiate on behalf of the United States. This is against the law. The entire Trump administration is lying about this and is trying to cover this up.

Yes and in the absence of leadership, Trump was elected

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Or Reagan in 1980 negotiating the release of the hostages in Iran so that they would not be released until he became President.

The media sure has a short memory. Their relentless attempt to undermine the President is just pathetic.

Yeah, I was off the coast of Iran when that happened. We went from nothing getting done to we were going home. Showed that Reagan got shit done and Carter did nothing!

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Yes and in the absence of leadership, Trump was elected

Yep, and Rochard is conveniently "forgetting" about Reagan and the Iran/hostages/arms deal he made as President-Elect while Carter was still in office.

This is pretty much how things are done. When you are about to assume power from a lame-duck President...every country in the world knows to deal with you and not the guy who will be gone in a few days.

[beerptrol]

Originally Posted by JohnnyClips

OMG BREAKING NEWS! And still perfectly legal...you do know the administration can talk to other countries, right?

ROFL

Get fixed. we don't need your kind of stupid breeding

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Who cares?

The United States has one leader at a time, one government. The president elect and his staff cannot negotiate on behalf of the United States. This is against the law. The entire Trump administration is lying about this and is trying to cover this up.

Please show us where that's a law? Link Please!

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yep, and Rochard is conveniently "forgetting" about Reagan and the Iran/hostages/arms deal he made as President-Elect while Carter was still in office.

This is pretty much how things are done. When you are about to assume power from a lame-duck President...every country in the world knows to deal with you and not the guy who will be gone in a few days.

Carter was terrible for the military and foreign policy. Our job was to punch holes in the ocean and protect the fleet from anything that went in their direction. Those hostages were there for 444 days and Carter sat on his hands.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Yes and in the absence of leadership, Drumpf was elected

What absence of leadership? Obama? The one who got us out of two endless wars, cut the unemployment rate by half, and got more people on healthcare ever than before?

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Please show us where that's a law? Link Please!

You are kidding me right?

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Carter was terrible for the military and foreign policy. Our job was to punch holes in the ocean and protect the fleet from anything that went in their direction. Those hostages were there for 444 days and Carter sat on his hands.

Carter was terrible for our military and our foreign policy. And our domestic policy too.

But I disagree that he "sat on his hands" during the Iranian hostage crisis. He did in fact order our military to take action, which was operation Eagle Claw, and it was a stunning failure and a complete embarrassment to the United States military. He ordered the US military into action, they failed him, and Carter pursued political options (which also failed).

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yep, and Rochard is conveniently "forgetting" about Reagan and the Iran/hostages/arms deal he made as President-Elect while Carter was still in office.

This is pretty much how things are done. When you are about to assume power from a lame-duck President...every country in the world knows to deal with you and not the guy who will be gone in a few days.

I am not forgetting anything.

But what role did Reagan play in the hostage release?

Rubio wrongly credits Reagan for 1981 release of hostages from Iran | PolitiFact

Rubio, Cruz on Reagan and Hostages

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yep, and Rochard is conveniently "forgetting" about Reagan and the Iran/hostages/arms deal he made as President-Elect while Carter was still in office.

This is pretty much how things are done. When you are about to assume power from a lame-duck President...every country in the world knows to deal with you and not the guy who will be gone in a few days.

Robbie is "conveniently" ignoring the fact many of these talks happened well before Trump was elected. They happened while he was a candidate...

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I am not forgetting anything.

So if you haven't forgotten how all past lame-duck President's have not been viable after their successor has been elected (thus the name "lame duck")...then why are you posting stuff that insinuates this is somehow something new and diabolical?

Just ridiculous. Every person that Trump had picked while in transition would have been complete idiots to not be working ahead of time so they could hit the ground running on day one.

But you already know that. You're just posting this stuff endlessly to troll and argue with people.

Also you aren't even talking about how Pres. Obama as a "lame duck" put sanctions on Russia in his last week in office. THAT really is unheard of and "new".
And it was very deliberately done to knee-cap Trump in his first weeks in office.

No way in hell Obama would have done that if Hillary had won the election. He's a shrewd politician, and did something that he knew would slow Trump down from dismantling the Obama "legacy".

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Robbie

So if you haven't forgotten how all past lame-duck President's have not been viable after their successor has been elected (thus the name "lame duck")...then why are you posting stuff that insinuates this is somehow something new and diabolical?

Just ridiculous. Every person that Drumpf had picked while in transition would have been complete idiots to not be working ahead of time so they could hit the ground running on day one.

But you already know that. You're just posting this stuff endlessly to troll and argue with people.

Also you aren't even talking about how Pres. Obama as a "lame duck" put sanctions on Russia in his last week in office. THAT really is unheard of and "new".
And it was very deliberately done to knee-cap Trump in his first weeks in office.

No way in hell Obama would have done that if Hillary had won the election. He's a shrewd politician, and did something that he knew would slow Trump down from dismantling the Obama "legacy".

We have one government at any time, not two. One president, not two. The president elect is just that, the president elect, and has zero power. None at all. Nor can he negotiate on behalf of the President.

Why is it your only defense is going to back to something Obama did? Or Hillary? Trump does something bad and all you want to talk about is Obama and Clinton.

You don't think it's completely inappropriate for the President Elect to call up leaders of a foreign country and start an international incident by destroying a decades long position on "One China". (In his defense, he most likely had no fucking clue such a policy existed because he has never worked in government before.)

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by crockett

Robbie is "conveniently" ignoring the fact many of these talks happened well before Drumpf was elected. They happened while he was a candidate...

This is a huge part of the problem and raises a lot of questions... If Trump was talking directly to the Russians, he must have known they were helping him win the election.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Robbie

So if you haven't forgotten how all past lame-duck President's have not been viable after their successor has been elected (thus the name "lame duck")...then why are you posting stuff that insinuates this is somehow something new and diabolical?

Just ridiculous. Every person that Trump had picked while in transition would have been complete idiots to not be working ahead of time so they could hit the ground running on day one.

But you already know that. You're just posting this stuff endlessly to troll and argue with people.

Also you aren't even talking about how Pres. Obama as a "lame duck" put sanctions on Russia in his last week in office. THAT really is unheard of and "new".
And it was very deliberately done to knee-cap Trump in his first weeks in office.

No way in hell Obama would have done that if Hillary had won the election. He's a shrewd politician, and did something that he knew would slow Trump down from dismantling the Obama "legacy".

Obama was anything but a fucking lame duck. You are just a constant complainer about Obama so you will make anything up to fit your agenda and your never ending whining about Obama. In 4 years you will still be crying about Obama and likely not care about a single bad thing Trump has done.

BTW I remember time and time again you said non stop that you wouldn't complain about things Bush did because Obama was the sitting president and you were only worried about the "now". Suddenly you are not worried about the "now" but instead want to continue to whine about Obama and the past.

Why the change?

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Carter was terrible for our military and our foreign policy. And our domestic policy too.

But I disagree that he "sat on his hands" during the Iranian hostage crisis. He did in fact order our military to take action, which was operation Eagle Claw, and it was a stunning failure and a complete embarrassment to the United States military. He ordered the US military into action, they failed him, and Carter pursued political options (which also failed).

Actually they were going to free the hostages. Reagan got them to hold them til after the election because if they were freed before the election Jimmy could of won on that. Then Reagan sold them arms which was treason and north fell on his sword for him.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Rochard

We have one government at any time, not two. One president, not two. The president elect is just that, the president elect, and has zero power. None at all. Nor can he negotiate on behalf of the President.

Why is it your only defense is going to back to something Obama did? Or Hillary? Trump does something bad and all you want to talk about is Obama and Clinton.

You don't think it's completely inappropriate for the President Elect to call up leaders of a foreign country and start an international incident by destroying a decades long position on "One China". (In his defense, he most likely had no fucking clue such a policy existed because he has never worked in government before.)

You can keep saying that all you want.

Doesn't change the fact that YES...ALL President Elect and staff during transition start putting their plans in place for what will be happening a few days away when they take power.

Pres. Obama did it (sent his people straight to Moscow for meetings while the election was still going on), Bush did it, Clinton did it...keep going back all the way to when Pres. Adams succeeded Pres. Washington

Nobody is saying that there isn't only one President at a time.

What I'm saying is that you would be an IDIOT to NOT get prepared for an important job like taking over the U.S. govt.

Are you really, really wanting to look this silly just for the sake of arguing? Jesus Christ...I know you aren't dumb. So you have to be doing this just to argue I suppose.
But man, it looks bad.
You're making yourself look weak and "snowflake-ish" with this kind of argument. I doubt very seriously that is your intent...but I can only tell you how it appears to me.

You seem to side with the people who are soft in this world. I don't think that's who you really are.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Rochard

This is a huge part of the problem and raises a lot of questions... If Trump was talking directly to the Russians, he must have known they were helping him win the election.

Then how do you explain Obama sending his people to Moscow to begin talks about what he was going to do different than Bush...while the campaign was still going on?

That is what SMART people do. You prepare ahead of time. You get your ducks in a row.
Sen. Obama even went on a "world tour" during the campaign of 2008 and met with World Leaders to discuss what his foreign policy would be if he ended up winning the election.

Remember? Or is this something else you are conveniently forgetting?
The media wasn't attacking Baby Jesus Obama over that. Nope...they PRAISED him for it.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by crockett

BTW I remember time and time again you said non stop that you wouldn't complain about things Bush did because Obama was the sitting president and you were only worried about the "now". Suddenly you are not worried about the "now" but instead want to continue to whine about Obama and the past.

Why the change?

Good point

[JohnnyClips - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Then how do you explain Obama sending his people to Moscow to begin talks about what he was going to do different than Bush...while the campaign was still going on?

That is what SMART people do. You prepare ahead of time. You get your ducks in a row.
Sen. Obama even went on a "world tour" during the campaign of 2008 and met with World Leaders to discuss what his foreign policy would be if he ended up winning the election.

Remember? Or is this something else you are conveniently forgetting?
The media wasn't attacking Baby Jesus Obama over that. Nope...they PRAISED him for it.

The whole "russian conspiracy theory" was a ruse right from the get go

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Then how do you explain Obama sending his people to Moscow to begin talks about what he was going to do different than Bush...while the campaign was still going on?

That is what SMART people do. You prepare ahead of time.

Huh.. The FBI notified the Trump campaign in June that Putin hacked the DNC (espionage). Wikileaks was releasing the hacked emails publicly (illegal). Stupid for Trump to be making backdoor deals with Putin under these circumstances and Trump Train will pay.

[JohnnyClips - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Huh.. The FBI notified the Trump campaign in June that Putin hacked the DNC (espionage). Wikileaks was releasing the hacked emails publicly (illegal). Stupid for Trump to be making backdoor deals with Putin under these circumstances and Trump Train will pay.

Putin hacked it? and made back door deals with Trump?

Proof?

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Huh.. The FBI notified the Trump campaign in June that Putin hacked the DNC (espionage). Wikileaks was releasing the hacked emails publicly (illegal). Stupid for Trump to be making backdoor deals with Putin under these circumstances and Trump Train will pay.

How is it "stupid" for a guy who the media accused of having no "experience" with world leaders (even though he did business all over the world) to reach out to world leaders?

As I already said...every other Presidential hopeful in the history of the country has done the same exact thing.

And wiki-leaks has stated time and again that they did NOT get John Podesta's hacked email from the Russians.
His email password was "password" and a 12 year old child could have hacked it.

Trump was under no legal obligation to NOT do his job...which was to prepare for his Presidency. Just like all candidates do.

EDIT: By the way...nobody will "pay". Flynn was fired for lying to Pence. Not a team player. Trump likes a good team of people. Flynn wasn't the guy.

[JohnnyClips - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by Robbie

How is it "stupid" for a guy who the media accused of having no "experience" with world leaders (even though he did business all over the world) to reach out to world leaders?

As I already said...every other Presidential hopeful in the history of the country has done the same exact thing.

And wiki-leaks has stated time and again that they did NOT get John Podesta's hacked email from the Russians.
His email password was "password" and a 12 year old child could have hacked it.

Trump was under no legal obligation to NOT do his job...which was to prepare for his Presidency. Just like all candidates do.

But but but CNN said it was the russians!

[Robbie]

It may have been Russians... and our spies hack their shit all the time too.

Point is...IF John Podesta's emails that told how Hillary REALLY thinks about things cost her the election...then so be it.

She should have been truthful with the American people instead of constantly lying.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Robbie

How is it "stupid" for a guy who the media accused of having no "experience" with world leaders (even though he did business all over the world) to reach out to world leaders?

As I already said...every other Presidential hopeful in the history of the country has done the same exact thing.

And wiki-leaks has stated time and again that they did NOT get John Podesta's hacked email from the Russians.
His email password was "password" and a 12 year old child could have hacked it.

Trump was under no legal obligation to NOT do his job...which was to prepare for his Presidency. Just like all candidates do.

EDIT: By the way...nobody will "pay". Flynn was fired for lying to Pence. Not a team player. Trump likes a good team of people. Flynn wasn't the guy.

You just ignored the illegalities the Trump team knew Putin & Wikileaks were involved in via the FBI informing them, why? That's a big thing

[JohnnyClips - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

You just ignored the illegalities the Trump team knew Putin & Wikileaks were involved in via the FBI informing them, why? That's a big thing

Putin has nothing to do with wikileaks, DUMBASS. For the 1 millionth time, the info was easily hacked and some of it leaked before hand

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Then how do you explain Obama sending his people to Moscow to begin talks about what he was going to do different than Bush...while the campaign was still going on?

That is what SMART people do. You prepare ahead of time. You get your ducks in a row.
Sen. Obama even went on a "world tour" during the campaign of 2008 and met with World Leaders to discuss what his foreign policy would be if he ended up winning the election.

Remember? Or is this something else you are conveniently forgetting?
The media wasn't attacking Baby Jesus Obama over that. Nope...they PRAISED him for it.

I don't recall Obama sending anyone to Russia before he became president. (In fact, I was unable to find any information about this - can you provide me with some links?)

With that said, there is some pretty large differences here... When Trump was President Elect he did not have an official position with the US Government. When Obama was President Elect he was.... A US Senator. As a US Senator Obama was on the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs and Committee on Foreign Relations. You can easily argue he did in fact represent the US government. A US Senator or Congressman wouldn't have any legal issues calling up an ambassador for a foreign country; In fact, this would have been a regular thing.

I am also sure Obama did everything with the blessing of the State Department, and most likely brought members of the State Department with him to officially represent the US Government. Obama didn't try to back door stuff with attorneys who worked for the Russians, accepted money from the Russians, and most likely was being blackmailed by the Russians.

And at the same time no one is accusing Obama of being bought and paid for by the Russians, and no one was accusing Russia helping Obama win his election.

Do you see the difference? President Elect Obama didn't hid anything and had the full support of the US government. (In fact, the Bush / Obama transition was one of the smoothest transition ever) while President Elect Trump is being secretive and having back room meetings with Russian agents and a shady attorney who is most likely being blackmailed by the Russians, attempting to make deals no one in the US government so much as heard of no less approved of.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Good point

Robbie will never acknowledge this, he will just keep whining about Obama in a Topic about Flynn. Robbie = embarrassed republican aplogist

[JohnnyClips - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Lol and you call other people "tin foil hat conspiracy theorists"?? ROFL