Got solar power installed yesterday - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

shiraz9944 · 05-07-2017, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

They didn't set you up to pay the company as a sort of "lease"?

Instead you bought the system with a loan from your bank? If so...that's pretty cool! What's the interest rate? And do you plan on living there for the next 20 years?

Also...would it be smarter to pay MORE per month on that loan and pay it all off quickly and save on interest...or just pay the minimum and treat that as your new "power bill" and keep it low?
On one hand that would keep your power bill low at $117. On the other hand you could save thousands in interest over the years and pay it off quickly and have a power bill of $0

Here in Nevada they have made law after law that have made that almost impossible to do. They keep you paying the power utility under all circumstances.

Which sucks because out here in the desert is THE place that solar energy would work the best.

Robbie did't Las Vegas just recently become the first US city to officially be run completely on Solar energy? I'm pretty sure I read that on CNN not long ago. I wonder if that is why prices there are whacky.........they may want to keep a stranglehold on that method since now it's cheap for them and can keep charging you for it.

Robbie · 05-07-2017, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiraz9944

Robbie did't Las Vegas just recently become the first US city to officially be run completely on Solar energy? I'm pretty sure I read that on CNN not long ago. I wonder if that is why prices there are whacky.........they may want to keep a stranglehold on that method since now it's cheap for them and can keep charging you for it.

No. The Las Vegas GOVERNMENT office buildings are the first in the country to run on RENEWABLE energy.

To try and put solar panels on your home in Nevada is a nightmare now. The govt. passed all kinds of laws to protect NV Energy (the power company) and make it hurt you in the wallet to put in solar panels on your own for your home.

NV Energy themselves are putting up huge solar arrays to SELL us power. And they complained to the govt. that homes with solar panels were "Unfairly" not paying "their share" of the new solar arrays for NV Energy.

It's pretty much a huge rip-off. And the govt. (as always) is hand-in-glove working to fuck the citizens over.
Here in Nevada...every home should be producing it's own power independently. Both solar AND wind (the wind here is unreal).

And the entire Mojave Desert should be a giant solar array. It would be enough to power the entire U.S.

Why isn't that reality? You would THINK that with "man-made" climate change being THE most important thing in the world...that Pres. Obama and the Democrat House and Senate would have made that a priority in his first 2 years of his administration in 2009 and 2010. They had TOTAL control.

But they didn't.

I guess we'll get another chance to see how "real" that is when the next Democrat President and full Dem control in the Senate and House takes place.
My prediction: They will do nothing again.

2MuchMark · 05-07-2017, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Thing here in Vegas is the power company is now building solar grids and charging customers the same jacked up prices for power that they did for traditional power generation.

It makes sense to me because they need to recover their investment. They can't charge more for it of course without people freaking out, and maybe they aren't allow to charge less. Who knows. I'm just glad its in place for Vegas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mineistaken

As far as I know solar energy is not cheaper to produce for power companies. Usually it is more expensive than traditional methods.

It used to be more expensive, but now its cheaper. https://cleantechnica.com/2014/09/04...nds-10-charts/

Quote:

Originally Posted by onwebcam

Nope my mom bought into this scam back in the 80s during the global cooling scare. Her panels now reside in her garage after a new roof was needed. Cost her an extra $750 to have a crane truck come out and remove the panels. They hadn't worked in decades..

Solar in the 80's was very, very expensive, and very inefficient too. Dismissing solar today because 30 year old technology sucked isn't smart. You should at least give it another look.

Quote:

Originally Posted by onwebcam

Rochards house is now pretty much unsellable. I for one wouldn't buy a house with association fees period. Couple that with, as someone else mentioned, a 20 year agreement on outdated technology.. My bet is he will be paying to have them removed and re-installed elsewhere if he ever goes to sell.

To each their own of course, but I think He's added lots of value to his house. We just bought our house about 2 years ago and this year, new houses are going up with solar in place. Even some new apartment buildings are solar. If I was shopping for a new house today, I would like at houses with solar panels included already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thommy

@ rochard: congrats and thanks for making the world a little bit cleaner !!!

I second that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

you committed to paying $117 x 12 months x 20 years = $28k for it all

and you will generate $300 or so worth of electricity per month? so that means everything will have to work smoothly and without any glitches or problems for 93+ months (almost 8 years) in order for you to come ahead....

Not sure you get it. Rochard was paying $400+ per month for electricity. Now he's paying $117. Not only that, but this is money he's paying into his house, and not to the electric company, and therefore value to his house. This is on top of the reduced pollution he is creating, and on top off the complete elimination of brownouts or short blackouts.

Look at it another way. Imagine you were buying a house for $500,000 and were going to mortgage it over 20 years. Your monthly payments would be around $2200 a month. If you could add $100 to your monthly payments and get "free" electricity (and be super green at the same time) for as long as you owned the house, wouldn't you take it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Google Expert

Anyway, here you go Einstein: https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data....php?t=ptb0810

Statistics from 1960 to 2011

Why are you posting stats that are almost 6 years out of date?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Jesus Christ what a bunch of jealous bitter haters WTF!

Great job on the solar panels Rochard

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

I hope Rochard revisits this thread monthly with updates showing actual savings compared to projected.

You're about as interested in that as you are of my own stats driving electric vs gasoline.

jsmih · 05-07-2017, 08:56 PM

If someone wants to use NV Energy assets (power plants, transmission lines, etc) at night they DO in fact need to pay their fair share of the cost to build, maintain, and operate those assests. For most of the US, the cost of electricity itself is probably about half of the bill. The other half is for the grid infrastructure and operational costs.

If someone doesn't want to pay NVE energy grid access fees, they always have the option to disconnect the NVE line to their home. Of course, they would have to pay to put in a battery storage system to handle their load at night and during the parts of the day when their panels aren't generating enough power for their load. They would probably also have to put in more panels, since they would have to generate the all the extra electricity needed to charge the batteries.

GLMBV · 05-08-2017, 02:05 AM

Had mine installed 3 weeks ago.. But not doing a monthly pay back plan like you Rochard, rather just paid them in full at once and see my energy bill go down every month without any additional monthly costs.

Even with cloudy weather they generate power, which is a necessity as I'm in the Netherlands lol

woj · 05-08-2017, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MuchMark

Not sure you get it. Rochard was paying $400+ per month for electricity. Now he's paying $117. Not only that, but this is money he's paying into his house, and not to the electric company, and therefore value to his house. This is on top of the reduced pollution he is creating, and on top off the complete elimination of brownouts or short blackouts.

Look at it another way. Imagine you were buying a house for $500,000 and were going to mortgage it over 20 years. Your monthly payments would be around $2200 a month. If you could add $100 to your monthly payments and get "free" electricity (and be super green at the same time) for as long as you owned the house, wouldn't you take it?

If it's such a no-brainer why isn't every business solar powered? clearly it's a great investment and it would result in PR boost? Why are $500 referral fees and huge salesman commissions needed, instead of everyone fighting to get in queue to get it installed? Why are substantial government subsidies needed? Why is the company selling this product struggling, losing $$ every year, only staying afloat because of gov subsidies?

could it be that it's not as great of an investment as everyone makes it out to be?

Barry-xlovecam · 05-08-2017, 04:59 AM

Solar Industry Data | SEIA

Guess you didn't get the memo ...
Solar Means Business 2016 | SEIA
I am going to guess that the real obstacle is the initial cap cost. How this works producing 3 phase current used by heavy industry?

Robbie · 05-08-2017, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsmih

If someone wants to use NV Energy assets (power plants, transmission lines, etc) at night they DO in fact need to pay their fair share of the cost to build, maintain, and operate those assests. For most of the US, the cost of electricity itself is probably about half of the bill. The other half is for the grid infrastructure and operational costs.

If someone doesn't want to pay NVE energy grid access fees, they always have the option to disconnect the NVE line to their home. Of course, they would have to pay to put in a battery storage system to handle their load at night and during the parts of the day when their panels aren't generating enough power for their load. They would probably also have to put in more panels, since they would have to generate the all the extra electricity needed to charge the batteries.

Nope, you don't have the option to disconnect. It's ILLEGAL to be "off the grid" now in most states.

And as I said earlier...with a combination of solar and wind and batteries...you could be completely independent of the power company.

But the govt. has taken that option away from people.
By doing that they save the utility company and the jobs it provides.

So there are two sides to the coin. If everyone were able to produce their own clean energy for free...then hundreds of thousands of jobs across the country would be lost and the "power grid" would be obsolete.

On the other hand...everyone could have free energy and the power grid would be obsolete.

I guess my real point is: There are claims that man is causing climate change. And that climate change is going to be "bad".
And some politicians claim that it's THE number one priority danger facing the world.

IF all that is true...then it seems to me that Utility Companies and their jobs be damned. It needs to be the govt.'s number one mission to stop climate change. And a huge step towards that would be to have solar panels, wind power, and any other renewable energy source running independently for every home in America.

Instead...the govt. is doing just the exact OPPOSITE.

So somebody, somewhere is lying to us.
Either the people claiming that the Earth is doomed.
Or the people saying everything is "okay".

And in the end...they are one and the same.

Politicians TALK. But they don't really follow through. Back in 1940 when a REAL problem faced the nation...the Democrats mobilized our country for war. Rations went into effect. Car manufacturers stopped making cars and started making military vehicles. It was an emergency.

And now...they say that climate change is worse than any war or enemy.

But they do...nothing.

woj · 05-08-2017, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Solar Industry Data | SEIA

Guess you didn't get the memo ...
Solar Means Business 2016 | SEIA
I am going to guess that the real obstacle is the initial cap cost. How this works producing 3 phase current used by heavy industry?

cap costs? interest rates are near zero and most companies are holding gazillions of $$ in cash itching to invest it wisely...

in business settings it makes more sense to use solar as the load is constant and usually only needed during the daylight hours (i.e. store is open 8am-8pm and uses pretty much constant level of electricity), so in a way you achieve 100% efficiency... (Note how most of the top 10 users are retail stores)

in residential settings (without battery storage) you achieve pretty poor efficiency as the electricity use varies greatly throughout the day...

businesses also have economies of scale, don't pay sales commissions, are able to negotiate prices better, pay lower interest rates, are able to use accounting tricks better, etc...

so comparing Walmart to residential setup is like comparing apples to oranges...

Bladewire · 05-08-2017, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

cap costs? interest rates are near zero and most companies are holding gazillions of $$ in cash itching to invest it wisely...

in business settings it makes more sense to use solar as the load is constant and usually only needed during the daylight hours (i.e. store is open 8am-8pm and uses pretty much constant level of electricity), so in a way you achieve 100% efficiency...

in residential settings (without battery storage) you achieve pretty poor efficiency as the electricity use varies greatly throughout the day...

businesses also have economies of scale, don't pay sales commissions, are able to negotiate prices better, pay lower interest rates, are able to use accounting tricks better, etc...

so comparing Walmart to residential setup is like comparing apples to oranges...

Dude you're digging a hole now trying to justify being wrong yesterday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bladewire

In California Rochard gets a tax credit for 30% of the cost of the solar package he bought as well as a $2,000 a year solar tax credit as well as selling his surplus energy to the electric company.

Rochard also qualifies for a lot of new state programs he might not even know about including reduced electricity rates. There are 211 different rebate/discount programs here in California as well as federal grants to help pay for his solar install loan.

Go Solar California

2MuchMark · 05-08-2017, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLMBV

Had mine installed 3 weeks ago..

Very cool! I'm envious!

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

If it's such a no-brainer why isn't every business solar powered?

Lots of reasons. Pricing is only now starting to become affordable. Solar is not the best in every situation (weather, roof size, legal & permits), availability, etc. And in some places like where I live, electricity is already very cheap and sourced from renewables (Hydro, Wind, Solar, Nuclear).

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

Why are $500 referral fees and huge salesman commissions needed, instead of everyone fighting to get in queue to get it installed?

Solar is hard to sell. People already get energy from natural gas and coal and don't feel the need to change. Others don't always believe it when you show the hidden costs of fossil fuels. Others just don't want the "Ugly" panels or want to pay the perceived high costs. Whatever commissions sales reps get I'm sure its well deserved.

Barry-xlovecam · 05-08-2017, 06:58 AM

Robbie just don't pay your power bill uvtill the power company takes you off the grid -- problem solved (the hard way). They will cut your leads on the line to the house. If you want to be extremist about it.

I get my electric and natural gas from the same utility company -- that is not an option here.

I have the power bill sitting here to be paid -- $37.47 of it is all the state allowed charges for being on the electric grid. If you are an 'official poor person' you get a $12 credit. My customer charge for gas supply is $11.75. So $49.22 a month to be connected to gas and electric. My shit is worth 4 times the value of my neighbor's house the have 4 more people shitting and we pay the same sewage bill --NOT FAIR!! Should I forgo the tap fee for sewerage and save $440/year. I don't have a choice now -- I don't have a septic field grandfathered in on this property ... A few of my neighbors do. It's a health and safety code violation to dig a hole and build an outhouse. So I am 'shit out of luck'

Next time a power line goes down I won't have to climb the utility pole or dig up the buried cable. There are certain fixed costs in life you have to pay to live in civilization. Including property taxes, income taxes, sales tax, medical tax (private insurance and government mandated Medicare contributions), and ... If they didn't charge a fuel tax all roads would be toll roads or dirt trails. How the hell would you get to your cabin?

Everyone does not want to live in a Unabomber's Cabin but that is all you get and you have to be a land squatter to live for free.

This is not Walden Pond or some Utopian pipe dream.
You might as well buy yourself a truck and fill the the back with fertilizer and gasoline because you will not be able to survive off the land in your cabin for long -- it's total bullshit.

Barry-xlovecam · 05-08-2017, 07:04 AM

woj is so fuckin' smart LMAO. The world passed you by and you are not smart enough to realize it.

Think about that. Coal Miner forever -- you seal your own fate.

Robbie · 05-08-2017, 07:33 AM

Barry you are being a bit extreme aren't You?
Cabin? Unabomber?

WTF?!?! Lol

I live in Vegas in a 5,000 square foot home with a basketball court, a pool, Jacuzzi, and an extra house (casita) in the backyard.

Pretty sure I don't need any lectures from you on property taxes and civilization.

I'll say it again...we should all be able to generate our own clean power for free. The govt. shouldn't be getting in the way of that.
Sorry if that angers you for some strange reason.

Grapesoda · 05-08-2017, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MuchMark

It makes sense to me because they need to recover their investment. They can't charge more for it of course without people freaking out, and maybe they aren't allow to charge less. Who knows. I'm just glad its in place for Vegas.

It used to be more expensive, but now its cheaper. https://cleantechnica.com/2014/09/04...nds-10-charts/

Solar in the 80's was very, very expensive, and very inefficient too. Dismissing solar today because 30 year old technology sucked isn't smart. You should at least give it another look.

To each their own of course, but I think He's added lots of value to his house. We just bought our house about 2 years ago and this year, new houses are going up with solar in place. Even some new apartment buildings are solar. If I was shopping for a new house today, I would like at houses with solar panels included already.

I second that!

Not sure you get it. Rochard was paying $400+ per month for electricity. Now he's paying $117. Not only that, but this is money he's paying into his house, and not to the electric company, and therefore value to his house. This is on top of the reduced pollution he is creating, and on top off the complete elimination of brownouts or short blackouts.

Look at it another way. Imagine you were buying a house for $500,000 and were going to mortgage it over 20 years. Your monthly payments would be around $2200 a month. If you could add $100 to your monthly payments and get "free" electricity (and be super green at the same time) for as long as you owned the house, wouldn't you take it?

Why are you posting stats that are almost 6 years out of date?

You're about as interested in that as you are of my own stats driving electric vs gasoline.

going to get a Nissan leaf myself I think

Grapesoda · 05-08-2017, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Barry you are being a bit extreme aren't You?
Cabin? Unabomber?

WTF?!?! Lol

I live in Vegas in a 5,000 square foot home with a basketball court, a pool, Jacuzzi, and an extra house (casita) in the backyard.

Pretty sure I don't need any lectures from you on property taxes and civilization.

I'll say it again...we should all be able to generate our own clean power for free. The govt. shouldn't be getting in the way of that.
Sorry if that angers you for some strange reason.

I live on a gated estate myself... 6 acers, pool, jacuzzie, tennis court etc.. only 4300 sqft and 2+2 guest house... in the LA area.... Robbie the guys here at GFY have no understanding of the commitment it takes to cover that type of nut

2MuchMark · 05-08-2017, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I live in Vegas in a 5,000 square foot home with a basketball court, a pool, Jacuzzi, and an extra house (casita) in the backyard.

Dude! Congrats! I should come visit the next time in Vegas. That's awesome.

2MuchMark · 05-08-2017, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

going to get a Nissan leaf myself I think

Don't - they aren't very good. Consider a Chevy Bolt instead, or even better, wait until the Tesla Model 3's come out next year in 2018.

Robbie · 05-08-2017, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MuchMark

Dude! Congrats! I should come visit the next time in Vegas. That's awesome.

You're welcome anytime Mark.

Barry-xlovecam · 05-08-2017, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Barry you are being a bit extreme aren't You?
Cabin? Unabomber?

WTF?!?! Lol

I live in Vegas in a 5,000 square foot home with a basketball court, a pool, Jacuzzi, and an extra house (casita) in the backyard.

Pretty sure I don't need any lectures from you on property taxes and civilization.

I'll say it again...we should all be able to generate our own clean power for free. The govt. shouldn't be getting in the way of that.
Sorry if that angers you for some strange reason.

You rag too much about the government like I did when I was 25.
You have it good -- WTF are you so angry about?
Like you can't afford to support the grid -- you cant afford a few thousand a year to live in society? Something isn't right.

Makes no sense sorry you are so unhappy -- at least you come off that way -- continuously.

My sarcasm is not a lecture -- you will take your attitudes to the grave with you -- so will I ...

Barry-xlovecam · 05-08-2017, 08:30 AM

Apart from some of the mindless dribble here ...

I did not realize what my northern climate here would support solar energy production -- apparently solar panel efficiency has advanced a lot. That is a good thing ...

crockett · 05-08-2017, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Thing here in Vegas is the power company is now building solar grids and charging customers the same jacked up prices for power that they did for traditional power generation.
Meanwhile the govt. has made it so that putting up your own solar energy for your home is very difficult and expensive.

Don't say Govt Robbie.. Say who it is. It's the fucking Republicans who run your state. Republicans all over the country have been push anti "self ownership" solar bills trying to drive up the cost of installing your own systems.

They are trying to make it very hard for you to be self sufficient and make you stay connected to the grid allowing power companies to fuck you over. Educate yourself because this is a Republican fueled agenda to force you to stay tied to the grid limiting future technologies..

Democrats are NOT pushing this kind of BS only Republicans are. Your state and your issues with making it hard to go solar are a direct result in your state being run by Republicans. That is what YOU voted for..

Robbie · 05-08-2017, 08:38 AM

"Support the grid"?
Barry, I am saying there should be no grid.

Everyone on renewable energy with their own solar and wind generation.

The grid is antiquated, technologically obsolete, and a huge vulnerability to our country.

Not sure why you are pro-utility company.
Not very liberal of you.

Rochard · 05-08-2017, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MuchMark

To each their own of course, but I think He's added lots of value to his house. We just bought our house about 2 years ago and this year, new houses are going up with solar in place. Even some new apartment buildings are solar. If I was shopping for a new house today, I would like at houses with solar panels included already.

All of the new houses being built here are being built with solar. In order to sell my house in the future, I will need to have solar panels on the roof. People do not want to buy houses where they have a power bill.

Bladewire · 05-08-2017, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crockett

Don't say Govt Robbie.. Say who it is. It's the fucking Republicans who run your state. Republicans all over the country have been push anti "self ownership" solar bills trying to drive up the cost of installing your own systems.

They are trying to make it very hard for you to be self sufficient and make you stay connected to the grid allowing power companies to fuck you over. Educate yourself because this is a Republican fueled agenda to force you to stay tied to the grid limiting future technologies..

Democrats are NOT pushing this kind of BS only Republicans are. Your state and your issues with making it hard to go solar are a direct result in your state being run by Republicans. That is what YOU voted for..

Same thing in Republican run Arizona.

In December republicans in Arizona stopped buying energy from residential solar panel customers.

Arizona regulators vote to stop net metering for solar

crockett · 05-08-2017, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Jesus Christ what a bunch of jealous bitter haters WTF!

Go FUCK Yourself each and every one of you!!

Great job on the solar panels Rochard. Another benefit it they'll protect that roof from future damage saving you cash on another roof repair

Isn't is fucking hilarious how all the haters are also the right wing goon squad?

Rochard · 05-08-2017, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

"Support the grid"?
Barry, I am saying there should be no grid.

Everyone on renewable energy with their own solar and wind generation.

The grid is antiquated, technologically obsolete, and a huge vulnerability to our country.

Not sure why you are pro-utility company.
Not very liberal of you.

There has to be a "grid". Eventually everyone will generate their own power. However, in some areas solar cannot provide enough power on a daily basis to provide enough power. If you live someplace where it snows or rains a lot and you don't see the sun for days at a time, that can be a problem. On those days you will be draw power from the power grid.

crockett · 05-08-2017, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

"Support the grid"?
Barry, I am saying there should be no grid.

Everyone on renewable energy with their own solar and wind generation.

The grid is antiquated, technologically obsolete, and a huge vulnerability to our country.

Not sure why you are pro-utility company.
Not very liberal of you.

Then you should stop voting for Republicans in your state, because the GOP agenda is to make it hard if not illegal to be off grid. Here in FL Republicans tried to push a bill this last election that would give the power company veto right over a home owner being able to install solar panels on their own house.. (ie the power company could tell you you can't get solar)

They then pushed it as a "pro solar" bill trying to fool the dumb dumbs, but luckily there was some pretty good campaigning by the solar industry to educate voters on what the intentions of the bill were so it failed.

Bladewire · 05-08-2017, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crockett

Isn't is fucking hilarious how all the haters are also the right wing goon squad?

It shows what a lie the alt-right movement is.

They say they want the system to crumble and independence from government, then a member gets energy independence with solar and every single one of them has nothing but negatives to say about it. Quite telling.

Looking like The GFY alt-right is just bitter racist trolls with multiple nics nothing more complex than that.

Rochard · 05-08-2017, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crockett

Isn't is fucking hilarious how all the haters are also the right wing goon squad?

I posted this originally to Facebook, and Mark told me he didn't want to post it to GFY because - you know - people are assholes. It's stunning that a simple post about someone investing into solar turns people into assholes who want to do nothing more than sling crap at people.

I am going to save $2k - $3k a year.

The value of my house will go up. In the very near future you will need to have solar in order to sell your house; People will not buy a house without solar when they can buy a house in the same neighborhood with solar and save themselves $300 - $450 a month on power.

The comments about the HOA are, well, dumb. My HOA is great. For $120 a month I get free Internet, and they keep our common areas nice and tidy. If this is not enough, they are building the largest HOA pool structure in California. Right now as it is we have a shallow play pool for kids, and a larger pool for adults. There is also a hot tub and a "water play area" for kids, a small gym, and a play area. If this isn't enough... My HOA is building a third pool PLUS a "lazy river" surrounding the entire pool area - and a thirty thousand foot two story gym. The HOA is best thing about my neighborhood.

But you know, haters gonna hate.

2MuchMark · 05-08-2017, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

You're welcome anytime Mark.

Wow thanks! I can take you for a ride in a Volt, we can talk about how cool Obama was, watch some Rachel Maddow and drink some microbrewery beers. It'll be fun!

;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

All of the new houses being built here are being built with solar. In order to sell my house in the future, I will need to have solar panels on the roof. People do not want to buy houses where they have a power bill.

Good point!! I never thought of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

I posted this originally to Facebook, and Mark told me he didn't want to post it to GFY because - you know - people are assholes.

Hey! I did NOT call GFY'ers assholes! (I think I called them fuck-heads! Or dipshits! Or Dynamos, or....)

But of course you should always post this kind of stuff on GFY. GFY is nothing if not a caring group of people who love each other dearly and care about the future of our planet. {GFYGroupHug!}

Barry-xlovecam · 05-08-2017, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

"Support the grid"?
Barry, I am saying there should be no grid.

Everyone on renewable energy with their own solar and wind generation.

The grid is antiquated, technologically obsolete, and a huge vulnerability to our country.

Not sure why you are pro-utility company.
Not very liberal of you.

It's a matter of practicality.

If the grid was going to close in 2018 and you would have to buy your own power generating system you would bitch about paying for it -- even if you had the money. We all would. You never appreciate what you have until it is gone.

80% of people don't have the capital investment money to buy their own power generating system. 50% of the population would be living in the dark lighting fires to stay warm in the winter, many burning down their homes. In the summer desert they would be dropping like flies from heat stroke.

You just can't have you cake and eat it too ... You cannot have a dual infrastructure, it is too expensive when there are few stakeholders. That is like saying we need no national defense spending -- I own guns and will kill any invader -- that is ludicrous. Some things are for the common good. Unless you want a huge tax burden subsidizing the power grid for those that need it -- that is a bad alternative.

However, you can have a redundant infrastructure.

I do agree with the vulnerability issues. I am more worried about storm outages than the foreign government cyber attack or electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attack, solar flare ... That is a doomsday scenario -- I am just not going to worry about that.

Sid70 · 05-08-2017, 09:50 AM

Edgy pornographers!

Rochard · 05-08-2017, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MuchMark

Good point!! I never thought of that.

It's very true. Why buy a house without solar and have to pay a power bill every month when you can buy a house with solar and not have a power bill?

I will never buy a house without solar from this point on. It's just not worth it.

Barry-xlovecam · 05-08-2017, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

It's very true. Why buy a house without solar and have to pay a power bill every month when you can buy a house with solar and not have a power bill?

I will never buy a house without solar from this point on. It's just not worth it.

I was disappointed with that form's projected 3% increase in value projection. Maybe other locations have much better projections?

Maybe, it is for the reason that I would need to clear the snow cover off the roof solar panels when it snows overnight -- the panels don't get hot when it is dark

I have open land I could use to make this easier too. But I would have to plow out a path to the land based panels.

Maybe, there is some work-around like wiper blades to activate -- what would that cost?

Lot of ifs to consider in this

Robbie · 05-08-2017, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

80% of people don't have the capital investment money to buy their own power generating system. 50% of the population would be living in the dark lighting fires to stay warm in the winter, many burning down their homes. In the summer desert they would be dropping like flies from heat stroke.

You are misunderstanding me.

I am trying to say that if the govt. truly believes that global warming/climate change is caused by man & is THE biggest threat above all else...then maybe instead of printing a couple of trillion dollars to bail out wall street, they could have used that money to put people to work installing solar panels and wind power on every building in the US.

You know...solve the problem that is said to exist and everyone would have solar.
Win/win

Now of course the big utility company's and the company's making billions buying and selling "carbon credits" were never gonna let that happen.
Just like the price of solar panels will never be allowed to come down to a reasonable price that 80% could afford.

Barry-xlovecam · 05-08-2017, 11:41 AM

If you said rather than spend $2 or $3 trillion on a useless war and military build up I would agree. Wall St was just covering up this spending with the high risk mortgage scam, derivatives leveraging, et al. then got caught with their hands in the government cookie jar. So, like good stooges they got stuck with the blame. Hands slapped and sent to their room. They then got a bonus on their allowance.

Don't blame the drug addict blame the cartel or the dealers ...

MrBottomTooth · 05-08-2017, 11:43 AM

I would love to do this. Electricity in Ontario is like being ass fucked every month.

I don't understand why they would spread it over 20 years though. If it's just a loan for $28,000, why wouldn't they do it over 5 years like a car loan? Maybe I missed the explanation earlier.

Robbie · 05-08-2017, 11:48 AM

My guess would be to make the monthly payment low enough to entice you to do it & also to make more interest money off the loan

Barry-xlovecam · 05-08-2017, 12:22 PM

The first real sales job I had was selling a food and freezer deal when I was 19.

We sold the commercial bags of frozen vegetables and a side of beef near cost and the fucking freezer we paid wholesale $268 for cost $1,600 + financing at term loan rates. But over the year to eat all that food for a family of 4 -- we did some penciling -- and -- hocus pocus we proved it was actually less expensive -- hey you get the freezer free that's a $559 value -- do we have a deal?

I made $175 a deal -- that was 1974 -- today adjusted for inflation =$853.30
We did 1 to 3 deals a week that the credit was accepted on.

Sell the sizzle not the steak LITERALLY.

In Cali or Nevada you do have the bright sunshine.
How do the solar panels affect your roof's longevity?
Do they shade the roof from the sun or add heat during the day? This affects asphalt shingles -- tile roofs or metal roofs would just heat up making the house harder to air condition in warmer climates. This might add heat during cold weather mostly beneficial.
How do you re-roof with solar panels installed?

I like the land based idea better -- the difference is just the expense of burying 2 cables -- the land area loss is incidental to me; 1 from the panels to the barn for the battery storage then 1 from the barn to the house electric service entrance. Small advantage I can free up the 30 Amps of 220V from the house to the barn.

You cannot borrow like a car because the installation becomes real property when it is attached to land or a house -- default requires real foreclosure not simple repossession like a car or refrigerator.

A home equity loan, mortgage refinance, or personal loan (not likely) will be the only financing available -- the contractor will want to cash out on that job.

Right now, home loans are at historical low interest rates for 1st mortgages ...

romeo22 · 05-08-2017, 12:46 PM

I need free shower tonight

Robbie · 05-08-2017, 01:48 PM

Barry, most homes in Vegas have ceramic tile roofs (as does mine)

And their are a few homes with solar panels in my gated community who had them installed a couple of years ago before the state took away all incentives and passed a law in favor of NV Energy that really hurt all the solar companies here.
So I have to assume that solar panels would have zero effect on ceramic roofing

Robbie · 05-08-2017, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

You cannot borrow like a car because the installation becomes real property when it is attached to land or a house -- default requires real foreclosure not simple repossession like a car or refrigerator.

A home equity loan, mortgage refinance, or personal loan (not likely) will be the only financing available --

Not true.
If that were the case people would never be able to do a short term loan for a swimming pool, or adding a room to the house or adding a garage. Or any other home improvement loan.
You don't need a 20 year loan to put some panels on your roof.
It's more likely a 20 year loan to make the payments low to justify the panels.
Make the payment cheaper than your current power bill.

Barry-xlovecam · 05-08-2017, 02:21 PM

Robbie I was a licensee building contractor for 14 years. And a mortgage broker in California for years ... so Robbie knows better

Done

Rochard · 05-08-2017, 02:32 PM

So today the city inspected the system and approved it and now I just wait until the power company turns it on.

2MuchMark · 05-08-2017, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Maybe, it is for the reason that I would need to clear the snow cover off the roof solar panels when it snows overnight -- the panels don't get hot when it is dark

I have open land I could use to make this easier too. But I would have to plow out a path to the land based panels.

Maybe, there is some work-around like wiper blades to activate -- what would that cost?

Lot of ifs to consider in this

In some snowy climates where winter lasts longer, The sun spends much more time on the horizon, not straight overhead. Therefore your panels are angled towards the horizon and its slope stops most of the snow from accumulating. There are tricks to use at the bottom of the panels to reduce this too.

Over 25% of all solar panels are sold in snowy climates. Snow increases albedo, which has a positive effect on performance. (I know! Check out https://www.thestar.com/business/201...r_problem.html and https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...albedo-effect/).

Of course I'm sure there are times when panels still get covered up. If you're storing the energy, maybe you can use electric heaters to melt the snow off? I don't know. Good question though. I found https://www.thesolarco.com/5-methods...-solar-panels/ and this: Snow No More: Technology Keeps Solar Panels Clean

Barry-xlovecam · 05-08-2017, 04:15 PM

I am just thinking of my well insulated ceiling and my roof covered with snow -- the barn is not normally heated so that roof is always covered with snow -- slate grey asphalt shingle -- reflective. I got an ITC of $500 on just the materials and not the installation labor in 2012.

Canada has similar weather.

Just as you are saying the angle would change seasonally for optimum output.

Ideally the panels would be land based with some form of angle adjustment. You could just go broom the panels off after a storm -- but that is like chopping wood or shoveling snow -- wasted labor. My time or hire someone -- coal miners need the work ...

I do like the idea of self produced dependable power with a grid backup. Selling $10 a month power back to the grid is cutsie but not a real factor. When the power goes off for 30 seconds the computers stay on. If there is a day or two of outage, it is a minor inconvenience locally. My power is uninterrupted.

Mark, think of how good it would be to charge your electric car with solar energy. That might be a better use than selling power back to the grid. Not about the money but the efficiency.

I made a nice chunk of change shorting the long term bond market today -- but you need to be connected 99.999% of the time playing that game. My worst nightmare would be scrambling on a 4G attempting timing of buys and closing out the positions.

Rochard · 05-10-2017, 07:07 AM

Got word from the solar company late last night to turn the system on... We are now generating solar power.

Barry-xlovecam · 05-10-2017, 07:40 AM

Well, you don't need A/C at night for the next few months so you will have little grid electric consumption. In the heat of the summer you will see the worst numbers. That is why you need battery storage -- how much per kw hour does the utility company buy your excess electric power for and what do they charge for the electric you buy?

Will you break even or come out ahead if you buy a power pack battery storage?

Bladewire · 05-10-2017, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Got word from the solar company late last night to turn the system on... We are now generating solar power.

Woohoo! Awesome news

05-08-2017, 08:38 AM	#123
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,958	"Support the grid"? Barry, I am saying there should be no grid. Everyone on renewable energy with their own solar and wind generation. The grid is antiquated, technologically obsolete, and a huge vulnerability to our country. Not sure why you are pro-utility company. Not very liberal of you. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

05-08-2017, 09:50 AM	#133
Sid70 Downshifter Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Road trip Posts: 16,413	Edgy pornographers! __________________ Русня, идите нахуй!

05-08-2017, 11:43 AM	#138
MrBottomTooth Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,795	I would love to do this. Electricity in Ontario is like being ass fucked every month. I don't understand why they would spread it over 20 years though. If it's just a loan for $28,000, why wouldn't they do it over 5 years like a car loan? Maybe I missed the explanation earlier. __________________ Get Paid Per Email Like The WEGCASH Days!!!!

05-08-2017, 11:48 AM	#139
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,958	My guess would be to make the monthly payment low enough to entice you to do it & also to make more interest money off the loan __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

05-08-2017, 02:32 PM	#145
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 72,854	So today the city inspected the system and approved it and now I just wait until the power company turns it on. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

05-07-2017, 08:56 PM	#104
jsmih Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 334	If someone wants to use NV Energy assets (power plants, transmission lines, etc) at night they DO in fact need to pay their fair share of the cost to build, maintain, and operate those assests. For most of the US, the cost of electricity itself is probably about half of the bill. The other half is for the grid infrastructure and operational costs. If someone doesn't want to pay NVE energy grid access fees, they always have the option to disconnect the NVE line to their home. Of course, they would have to pay to put in a battery storage system to handle their load at night and during the parts of the day when their panels aren't generating enough power for their load. They would probably also have to put in more panels, since they would have to generate the all the extra electricity needed to charge the batteries.

05-08-2017, 02:05 AM	#105
GLMBV Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 750	Had mine installed 3 weeks ago.. But not doing a monthly pay back plan like you Rochard, rather just paid them in full at once and see my energy bill go down every month without any additional monthly costs. Even with cloudy weather they generate power, which is a necessity as I'm in the Netherlands lol

05-08-2017, 04:59 AM	#107
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	Solar Industry Data \| SEIA Guess you didn't get the memo ... Solar Means Business 2016 \| SEIA I am going to guess that the real obstacle is the initial cap cost. How this works producing 3 phase current used by heavy industry?

05-08-2017, 06:58 AM	#112
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	Robbie just don't pay your power bill uvtill the power company takes you off the grid -- problem solved (the hard way). They will cut your leads on the line to the house. If you want to be extremist about it. I get my electric and natural gas from the same utility company -- that is not an option here. I have the power bill sitting here to be paid -- $37.47 of it is all the state allowed charges for being on the electric grid. If you are an 'official poor person' you get a $12 credit. My customer charge for gas supply is $11.75. So $49.22 a month to be connected to gas and electric. My shit is worth 4 times the value of my neighbor's house the have 4 more people shitting and we pay the same sewage bill --NOT FAIR!! Should I forgo the tap fee for sewerage and save $440/year. I don't have a choice now -- I don't have a septic field grandfathered in on this property ... A few of my neighbors do. It's a health and safety code violation to dig a hole and build an outhouse. So I am 'shit out of luck' Next time a power line goes down I won't have to climb the utility pole or dig up the buried cable. There are certain fixed costs in life you have to pay to live in civilization. Including property taxes, income taxes, sales tax, medical tax (private insurance and government mandated Medicare contributions), and ... If they didn't charge a fuel tax all roads would be toll roads or dirt trails. How the hell would you get to your cabin? Everyone does not want to live in a Unabomber's Cabin but that is all you get and you have to be a land squatter to live for free. This is not Walden Pond or some Utopian pipe dream. You might as well buy yourself a truck and fill the the back with fertilizer and gasoline because you will not be able to survive off the land in your cabin for long -- it's total bullshit.

05-08-2017, 07:04 AM	#113
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	woj is so fuckin' smart LMAO. The world passed you by and you are not smart enough to realize it. Think about that. Coal Miner forever -- you seal your own fate.

05-08-2017, 07:33 AM	#114
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,958	Barry you are being a bit extreme aren't You? Cabin? Unabomber? WTF?!?! Lol I live in Vegas in a 5,000 square foot home with a basketball court, a pool, Jacuzzi, and an extra house (casita) in the backyard. Pretty sure I don't need any lectures from you on property taxes and civilization. I'll say it again...we should all be able to generate our own clean power for free. The govt. shouldn't be getting in the way of that. Sorry if that angers you for some strange reason.

05-08-2017, 08:30 AM	#121
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	Apart from some of the mindless dribble here ... I did not realize what my northern climate here would support solar energy production -- apparently solar panel efficiency has advanced a lot. That is a good thing ...

05-08-2017, 11:41 AM	#137
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	If you said rather than spend $2 or $3 trillion on a useless war and military build up I would agree. Wall St was just covering up this spending with the high risk mortgage scam, derivatives leveraging, et al. then got caught with their hands in the government cookie jar. So, like good stooges they got stuck with the blame. Hands slapped and sent to their room. They then got a bonus on their allowance. Don't blame the drug addict blame the cartel or the dealers ...

05-08-2017, 12:22 PM	#140
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	The first real sales job I had was selling a food and freezer deal when I was 19. We sold the commercial bags of frozen vegetables and a side of beef near cost and the fucking freezer we paid wholesale $268 for cost $1,600 + financing at term loan rates. But over the year to eat all that food for a family of 4 -- we did some penciling -- and -- hocus pocus we proved it was actually less expensive -- hey you get the freezer free that's a $559 value -- do we have a deal? I made $175 a deal -- that was 1974 -- today adjusted for inflation =$853.30 We did 1 to 3 deals a week that the credit was accepted on. Sell the sizzle not the steak LITERALLY. In Cali or Nevada you do have the bright sunshine. How do the solar panels affect your roof's longevity? Do they shade the roof from the sun or add heat during the day? This affects asphalt shingles -- tile roofs or metal roofs would just heat up making the house harder to air condition in warmer climates. This might add heat during cold weather mostly beneficial. How do you re-roof with solar panels installed? I like the land based idea better -- the difference is just the expense of burying 2 cables -- the land area loss is incidental to me; 1 from the panels to the barn for the battery storage then 1 from the barn to the house electric service entrance. Small advantage I can free up the 30 Amps of 220V from the house to the barn. You cannot borrow like a car because the installation becomes real property when it is attached to land or a house -- default requires real foreclosure not simple repossession like a car or refrigerator. A home equity loan, mortgage refinance, or personal loan (not likely) will be the only financing available -- the contractor will want to cash out on that job. Right now, home loans are at historical low interest rates for 1st mortgages ...

05-08-2017, 12:46 PM	#141
romeo22 你自己去他媽的 Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 23,346	I need free shower tonight

05-08-2017, 01:48 PM	#142
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,958	Barry, most homes in Vegas have ceramic tile roofs (as does mine) And their are a few homes with solar panels in my gated community who had them installed a couple of years ago before the state took away all incentives and passed a law in favor of NV Energy that really hurt all the solar companies here. So I have to assume that solar panels would have zero effect on ceramic roofing

05-08-2017, 02:21 PM	#144
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	Robbie I was a licensee building contractor for 14 years. And a mortgage broker in California for years ... so Robbie knows better Done

05-08-2017, 04:15 PM	#147
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	I am just thinking of my well insulated ceiling and my roof covered with snow -- the barn is not normally heated so that roof is always covered with snow -- slate grey asphalt shingle -- reflective. I got an ITC of $500 on just the materials and not the installation labor in 2012. Canada has similar weather. Just as you are saying the angle would change seasonally for optimum output. Ideally the panels would be land based with some form of angle adjustment. You could just go broom the panels off after a storm -- but that is like chopping wood or shoveling snow -- wasted labor. My time or hire someone -- coal miners need the work ... I do like the idea of self produced dependable power with a grid backup. Selling $10 a month power back to the grid is cutsie but not a real factor. When the power goes off for 30 seconds the computers stay on. If there is a day or two of outage, it is a minor inconvenience locally. My power is uninterrupted. Mark, think of how good it would be to charge your electric car with solar energy. That might be a better use than selling power back to the grid. Not about the money but the efficiency. I made a nice chunk of change shorting the long term bond market today -- but you need to be connected 99.999% of the time playing that game. My worst nightmare would be scrambling on a 4G attempting timing of buys and closing out the positions.

05-10-2017, 07:07 AM	#148
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 72,854	Got word from the solar company late last night to turn the system on... We are now generating solar power. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

05-10-2017, 07:40 AM	#149
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	Well, you don't need A/C at night for the next few months so you will have little grid electric consumption. In the heat of the summer you will see the worst numbers. That is why you need battery storage -- how much per kw hour does the utility company buy your excess electric power for and what do they charge for the electric you buy? Will you break even or come out ahead if you buy a power pack battery storage?