Russia envoy says Moscow will respond to NATO buildup

[brassmonkey]

BRUSSELS (AP) - Russia's envoy to NATO warned Thursday that Moscow is concerned by the alliance's military deployment in the Baltic States and Poland, and will respond to the buildup, as thousands of U.S. and European troops trained on land, sea and in the air in central and eastern Europe.



"NATO is building a new military security situation that we cannot ignore, that we should address using our own military instruments," Ambassador Alexander Grushko said in Brussels. He declined to spell out what kind of measures Russia might take, saying only that "NATO's movements will not be left without a response in terms of military planning."

Twelve NATO countries are deploying a total of around 4,600 troops to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland and the four battlegroups are due to be fully up and running within two weeks. NATO says it's a deterrent move aimed at countering aggression by Russia, which seized Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula in 2014.

"NATO is a defensive alliance and we do not seek confrontation with Russia," NATO spokesman Piers Cazalet said. "NATO had no plan to deploy forces in the region before Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea."

Separately, around 4,000 U.S. and European troops from 14 nations were taking part in the annual Baltic Operations navy exercise that opened Thursday in the Baltic Sea port of Szczecin, in Poland, one of Russia's neighbors. The war games involve ground forces backed by about 50 ships and submarines and over 50 aircraft, and will run through June 16.

In Romania, meanwhile, another 2,000 soldiers, 1,000 assistance personnel and 500 vehicles from 11 NATO nations were training in the alliance's "Noble Jump 2017" drill. In a conversation with reporters that painted a bleak picture of NATO-Russia ties, Grushko also said that Moscow sees no shift in U.S. defense policy since President Donald Trump came to office.

"In real steps, there is not any change of U.S. policy through NATO vis-a -vis Russia," he said, noting that Washington has increased defense spending in Europe by 40 percent in its 2018 budget. Grushko also questioned why European allies would boost spending, as Trump insisted they should during last week's NATO summit, when their combined defense budgets are already greater than Russia and China together.

He also said that the multitude of global threats means it's impossible for any group of states or organization like NATO "to create an island of security." "If Europe is really interested in improving its own security, it is simply not possible to do it without Russia," Grushko said.

Following the summit and G-7 meetings last week, German Chancellor Angela Merkel suggested that Europe's relationship with the U.S. had shifted significantly, saying that "the times in which we can fully count on others are somewhat over, as I have experienced in the past few days."

article...

[Sid70]

Cliff notes: fuck rooskies.

[Rochard]

What are they going to do? Increase the Warsaw Pact? Didn't that dissolve?

[bronco67]

Of course they'll be tough, now that the US role in NATO is on shaky ground. Good job Trump.

[pimpmaster9000]

[brassmonkey]

free vodka coming soon!

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Rochard

What are they going to do? Increase the Warsaw Pact? Didn't that dissolve?

I don't think so. As a person who understands how it works, I'll tell you. The Russians will simply set more short-range tactical nukes at Kaliningrad. Those need less than two minutes to reach Warsaw.



The one on the video above is not equipped with a nuke (the nuclear tests are forbidden by the UN), but those that aim the NATO bases in the EU have light 50 kiloton tactical nuke warheads attached. Each one delivers about a few Hiroshimas.

P.S. These nukes are designed for small local conflicts in Europe. For something global Russia has Topol-M and course SS-18 AKA "Satan". A single missile is able to burn out a whole state like Texas or if it hits London, it will destroy Paris just as a side effect.

[beerptrol]

They are already responding by using their puppet Chump

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

free vodka coming soon!

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

once you cross the nuke line you are done! this is for show. what country wants their economic structure to cave?

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

once you cross the nuke line you are done!

Are you sure? Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Man, the tactical nukes will be used with ease. I'll tell you more. In some cases it's the only tactic suggested by the military doctrine. E.g. vs CVBG's. Do you really think there will be midway-like battles over your aircraft carriers? No. A single or two of cruise missiles with tactical nuke warheads exploded at a 100-200 meter attitude will sink the whole battle group. It's easy, cheap and extremely effective.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Are you sure? Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia

get in your books and read!

[crockett]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

I don't think so. As a person who understands how it works, I'll tell you. The Russians will simply set more short-range tactical nukes at Kaliningrad. Those need less than two minutes to reach Warsaw.



The one on the video above is not equipped with a nuke (the nuclear tests are forbidden by the UN), but those that aim the NATO bases in the EU have light 50 kiloton tactical nuke warheads attached. Each one delivers about a few Hiroshimas.

P.S. These nukes are designed for small local conflicts in Europe. For something global Russia has Topol-M and course SS-18 AKA "Satan". A single missile is able to burn out a whole state like Texas or if it hits London, it will destroy Paris just as a side effect.

You say this as if it matters? If Russia ever launched any of those, Russia would also be completely destroyed.. So maybe it takes 10-30 mins before the bulk missiles from the US to hit their targets.. end result everyone is fucked..

We don't need small tactical nukes or "Satan" nukes, we have more than enough conventional nukes to destroy the world.. Not to mention what UK & France also have..

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by crockett

You say this as if it matters? If Russia ever launched any of those, Russia would also be completely destroyed..

This depends a lot. If Warsaw, London or Berlin will be burnt out, will the States dare to kill themselves by starting a full-scale nuclear war with Russia? I have no answer to this question. Do you have it?

Originally Posted by crockett

Not to mention what UK & France also have..

Those will be wiped out in a few minutes. The question is how Russia, the USA and China will act in this case. If you think the answer is obvious, you are deluding yourself...

[Sarn]

Originally Posted by Rochard

What are they going to do? Increase the Warsaw Pact? Didn't that dissolve?

covfefe

[crockett]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

This depends a lot. If Warsaw, London or Berlin will be burnt out, will the States dare to kill themselves by starting a full-scale nuclear war with Russia? I have no answer to this question. Do you have it?



Those will be wiped out in a few minutes. The question is how Russia, the USA and China will act in this case. If you think the answer is obvious, you are deluding yourself...

If Russia launched nuclear attack on Europe it's by default attacking the US military. We would overwhelmingly respond.

Also we have many nuclear subs out there, and around 200 of our own nukes staged in the Euro area, meaning it wouldn't be a case of waiting on nukes from US mainland to hit you. The mainland nukes would just finish the job.. Meaning if anyone opts to go nuclear it's over.. for all of us.. This is why places like NK & Iran should not have nukes..

[Bladewire]

Once again, Putin leading Russians into danger by being the aggressor against other nations.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by crockett

If Russia launched nuclear attack on Europe it's by default attacking the US military. We would over overwhelmingly respond.

Are you sure? Do you really think your president will be ready to kill himself giving such an order? Because if he will dare, it will be the end to everything. The end to you, to me, to your president and his family. It will be the end for the planed Earth... Man, for some reason I don't think that the US president is so stupid like you...

You may lose Germany, Poland or Great Britain. You may lose your CVBG, but are you ready to lose everything including your life and life of every creature on planet Earth for that?

Let's imagine you are the US president. Russia just burned out your base in Poland and the whole country too. Will you try to settle down the conflict in a personal meeting with the Russian president, or you just say "fuck this world!" and press the "red button" to see how your wife and kids burn alive in the nuclear fire? Just think about it.

[Sarn]

Originally Posted by crockett

If Russia launched nuclear attack on Europe it's by default attacking the US military. We would overwhelmingly respond.

Also we have many nuclear subs out there, and around 200 of our own nukes staged in the Euro area, meaning it wouldn't be a case of waiting on nukes from US mainland to hit you. The mainland nukes would just finish the job.. Meaning if anyone opts to go nuclear it's over.. for all of us.. This is why places like NK & Iran should not have nukes..

[Sarn]

If serious

Wojna światowa wisi na włosku? Niespotykana koncentracja wojsk przy granicy



Wojna ?wiatowa wisi na w?osku? Niespotykana koncentracja wojsk przy granicy - Portal Mi?dzymorza JAGIELLONIA.ORG

[crockett]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Are you sure? Do you really think your president will be ready to kill himself giving such an order? Because if he will dare, it will be the end to everything. The end to you, to me, to your president and his family. It will be the end for the planed Earth... Man, for some reason I don't think that the US president is so stupid like you...

You may lose Germany, Poland or Great Britain. You may lose your CVBG, but are you ready to lose everything including your life and life of every creature on planet Earth for that?

Let's imagine you are the US president. Russia just burned out your base in Poland and the whole country too. Will you try to settle down the conflict in a personal meeting with the Russian president, or you just say "fuck this world!" and press the "red button" to see how your wife and kids burn alive in the nuclear fire? Just think about it.

Something else you are not looking at. For years the US has been the buffer for Europe, Militarily and that's been able to keep peace for the most part in Europe since WW2.

That little picture of US bases that Sarn loves to post is basically the US being the peace keeper for Europe. If those were not US bases, they would be European bases.

Now think of that for a moment. The US acting as a 3rd party has kept most of Europe from building up militarily. However Russia has become more and more the aggressor state and now with a moron like Trump in the US, Euro leaders have now openly stated they can not depend on "Trump's America".

Do you understand what that now means? The EU will now start buffing up their military capabilities and we will likely see new Nuclear states born in the next 10 years. If Germany feels they can not protect themselves from Russian aggression do you not think they will not want their own nuclear arsenal?

What about all the other EU countries who have not gone nuclear? If Japan feels it is now more threatened by China because they see Trump as weak, will they not also go nuclear? They are also already buffing up their military..

The catalyst for all this is Russian aggression in Ukraine and US/EU election tampering and also China building those islands in the South China sea.. Your country & China is provoking a new arms race which will end up with more nuclear war heads aimed at Russia from more countries.. You better hurry up and use your missiles now if that's what you think, because another 10 years you will have even more pointed at you..

The US acting as the 3rd party military support for both Europe and Asia has stopped this from happening until now..

So in the end does Russia really win in this? I'd say no, I'd say the US wins because soon Europe/Asia will not need so much of our military to defend it.. They will once again be capable for better or worse of defending themselves.. In the end though we are all less safe because there are more fingers on the buttons...

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Let's imagine you are the US president. Russia just burned out your base in Poland and the whole country too. Will you try to settle down the conflict in a personal meeting with the Russian president, or you just say "fuck this world!" and press the "red button" to see how your wife and kids burn alive in the nuclear fire? Just think about it.

You're so funny OMG I can't stop laughing you are so brainwashed

"Give me what I want or the world ends!" Holy shit you have a very watered down biased view of how that conflict would go down as if the seconds nukes went in the air jets wouldnt be scrambled around the world, and the world knows what China & Russia are up to it's no secret.

Before you launch nukes, satellites show activity at your bases preparing for a counter attack, so the world knows you're about to launch days or hours before missiles go in the air. So much you leave out, or don't know.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by crockett

The US acting as the 3rd party military support for both Europe and Asia has stopped this from happening until now..

WWII has ended long time ago. In case of WWIII the whole planet will be destroyed (both Russia and the States have means to do it). The question is very simple: is the US president ready to kill America in case if Russia will nuke Poland or say Czech Republic? Will he dare for a revenge suicide?

[Sid70]

Originally Posted by Sarn

If serious

Wojna światowa wisi na włosku? Niespotykana koncentracja wojsk przy granicy



Wojna ?wiatowa wisi na w?osku? Niespotykana koncentracja wojsk przy granicy - Portal Mi?dzymorza JAGIELLONIA.ORG

That shit is not funny. Is EU ready? Don't think so.

[Steve Rupe]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Are you sure? Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Man, the tactical nukes will be used with ease. I'll tell you more. In some cases it's the only tactic suggested by the military doctrine. E.g. vs CVBG's. Do you really think there will be midway-like battles over your aircraft carriers? No. A single or two of cruise missiles with tactical nuke warheads exploded at a 100-200 meter attitude will sink the whole battle group. It's easy, cheap and extremely effective.

It would mean the destruction of Russia if Putin ordered such a thing and Putin is not crazy, at least I don't think he is.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Steve Rupe

It would mean the destruction of Russia

It doesn't mean anything. Read my post above. Read it carefully.

[Steve Rupe]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

WWII has ended long time ago. In case of WWIII the whole planet will be destroyed (both Russia and the States have means to do it). The question is very simple: is the US president ready to kill America in case if Russia will nuke Poland or say Czech Republic? Will he dare for a revenge suicide?

If Putin orders the use of nukes to be used then Russia will be destroyed. It is current American military policy and the President would not necessarily be in the decision making process if he were to disagree with American Military Policy.

[Sid70]

Originally Posted by Steve Rupe

If Putin orders the use of nukes to be used then Russia will be destroyed. It is current American policy and the President would not necessarily be in the decision making process if he were to disagree with American Military Policy.

I believe EU and US already understand they did not put Putin on pause on time. Why wait? Put him on pause right away. He is not expecting that.

[Steve Rupe]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

It doesn't mean anything. Read my post above. Read it carefully.

It means everything. If Russia chooses to use nukes, Tactical or other wise, Russia will be destroyed, as it is current, military policy and factually is out of the hands of a President to disagree.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

WWII has ended long time ago. In case of WWIII the whole planet will be destroyed (both Russia and the States have means to do it). The question is very simple: is the US president ready to kill America in case if Russia will nuke Poland or say Czech Republic? Will he dare for a revenge suicide?

Do you understand the US president is not the only guy who can launch our missiles? If the Vice President & cabinet members feel the president in incapacitated or unfit to do it, they can choose to launch them.

The VP also has our Nuclear codes. You can with out a doubt expect nuclear warhead special deliveries across Russia if they are used against Europe.

[Sid70]

Originally Posted by Steve Rupe

It means everything. If Russia chooses to use nukes, Tactical or other wise, Russia will be destroyed, as it is current, military policy and factually is out of the hands of a President to disagree.

In Russia the President decides it all at every point as of he is also a Head commander. How does it work in USA, what moment Trump becomes a 'puppet' that no longer gives military orders?

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Steve Rupe

If Putin orders the use of nukes to be used then Russia will be destroyed.

Don't be an idiot. If Russia will be destroyed, the whole planet will be destroyed too. There will be no winner. You, me and our families will burn in nuclear fire. Even Antarctic penguins will die.

[Steve Rupe]

Originally Posted by crockett

Do you understand the US president is not the only guy who can launch our missiles? If the Vice President & cabinet members feel the president in incapacitated or unfit to do it, they can choose to launch them.

The VP also has our Nuclear codes.

Nukes will be launched period with out any civilian input. I know this to be fact. It is standing military policy.

[Sid70]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Don't be an idiot. If Russia will be destroyed, the whole planet will be destroyed too. There will be no winner. You, me and our families will burn in nuclear fire. Even Antarctic penguins will die.

He says if Russia even tries using local nukes it would be destroyed by global nukes much sooner then it is ready to react globally.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

WWII has ended long time ago. In case of WWIII the whole planet will be destroyed (both Russia and the States have means to do it). The question is very simple: is the US president ready to kill America in case if Russia will nuke Poland or say Czech Republic? Will he dare for a revenge suicide?

That's a false equivalent & Britain would act

[Steve Rupe]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Don't be an idiot. If Russia will be destroyed, the whole planet will be destroyed too. There will be no winner. You, me and our families will burn in nuclear fire. Even Antarctic penguins will die.

That is why it is American Military Policy to destroy Russia if it launches any type of nuke. There are multiple military reasons for this policy. The Russians are fully aware of our Military Policy. No not everything or everyone will die in an all out nuclear war this is an exaggerated claim by those that do not really know the stats.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Don't be an idiot. If Russia will be destroyed, the whole planet will be destroyed too. There will be no winner. You, me and our families will burn in nuclear fire. Even Antarctic penguins will die.

The worms will live to sing another day

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

That's a false equivalent & Britain would act

As I said above it will be burned out in minutes with a single SS-18 missile. There will be no Britain. The question is what Russia, the USA and China will do after that. There will be only two solutions: settle the things down or die standing up like a man.

Originally Posted by Sid70

He says if Russia even tries using local nukes it would be destroyed by global nukes much sooner then it is ready to react globally.

It doesn't work this way. The global strike will be triggered in any case. From the subs (each one can destroy a whole US coast) or by the Dead Hand AKA "Периметер" - doesn't matter. The planet Earth will be burned out in any case.

Вот как-то так:

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Steve Rupe

That is why it is American Military Policy to destroy Russia if it launches any type of nuke. There are multiple military reasons for this policy. The Russians are fully aware of our Military Policy. No not everything or everyone will die in an all out nuclear war this is an exaggerated claim by those that do not really know the stats.

It's not just the day of the attack.. We have 11 nuclear subs. Those subs would likely not be used in the 1st all out attack. Each of those 11 subs has enough nukes to destroy every major Russian city by them selves.

If all out war happened, there would likely be nukes hitting targets up to a month later if need be. The 1st attack would happen and our military could still hit targets after everyone was dead.. It's a sad fact that just as survivors came out and tried to figure out what to do.. They'd get hit again..

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

As I said above it will be burned out in minutes with a single SS-18 missile. There will be no Britain. The question is what Russia, the USA and China will do after that. There will be only two solutions: settle the things down or die standing up like a man.

Again, you're seeing the scenario through a vacume as if there were no covert signs in advance that the bomb would be launched and no counter motions already in process. It's not like out of the blue "Boom! Your move." You'd be supplementing your bases in advance prepping for counter attack and that would be seen by sattelite, as well as our Intel within Russia, AND if you didn't supplement​, they'd be the first blown up in a counter strike that would be launched the second your missile fired up

[Sarn]

Originally Posted by Sid70

That shit is not funny. Is EU ready? Don't think so.

klinton comrade from gfy always ready

Originally Posted by crockett

It's not just the day of the attack.. We have 11 nuclear subs. Those subs would likely not be used in the 1st all out attack. Each of those 11 subs has enough nukes to destroy every major Russian city by them selves.

If all out war happened, there would likely be nukes hitting targets up to a month later if need be. The 1st attack would happen and our military could still hit targets after everyone was dead.. It's a sad fact..

We will have to sacrifice Moscow and CyberSEO comrade.

[klinton]

it takes just one missile delivery from UK or France to your capital and you wont be posting anymore on this forum..they have dozens of them, some of them will arrrive for sure

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

This depends a lot. If Warsaw, London or Berlin will be burnt out, will the States dare to kill themselves by starting a full-scale nuclear war with Russia? I have no answer to this question. Do you have it?



Those will be wiped out in a few minutes. The question is how Russia, the USA and China will act in this case. If you think the answer is obvious, you are deluding yourself...

[klinton]

you overestimate it...one Satan has up to 10 MT (10 warheads 800 kt each one)..it can destroy whole London and pollute area around in 50 km radius...not whole UK or Texas

learn comrade

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

As I said above it will be burned out in minutes with a single SS-18 missile. There will be no Britain. The question is what Russia, the USA and China will do after that. There will be only two solutions: settle the things down or die standing up like a man.

[Sarn]

Originally Posted by klinton

it takes just one missile delivery from UK or France to your capital and you wont be posting anymore on this forum..they have dozens of them, some of them will arrrive for sure

always ready With binoculars by the window

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by klinton

you overestimate it...one Satan has up to 10 MT (10 warheads 800 kt each one)..it can destroy whole London and pollute area around in 50 km radius...not whole UK or Texas

I'm talking about a single warhead version. A 25 megaton one. It's about 1500 Hiroshimas or a half of the most powerful nuclear blast in the history.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Sarn

always ready With binoculars by the window

[klinton]

thats wonderful, too bad that they are not in use since 1984 (and 2009)...
learn comrade, learn....

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

I'm talking about a single warhead version. A 25 megatons one. It's about 1500 Hiroshimas or a half of the most powerful nuclear blast in the history.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by klinton

thats wonderful, too bad that they are not in use since 1984 (and 2009)...
learn comrade, learn....

They are still in service and waiting for their time, comrade. Don't trust to wikipedia when it comes about nukes here or there... Also SS-18 will be replaced with RS-28 (aka "Satan-2" by the NATO classification).

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by crockett

If Russia launched nuclear attack on Europe it's by default attacking the US military. We would overwhelmingly respond.

Also we have many nuclear subs out there, and around 200 of our own nukes staged in the Euro area, meaning it wouldn't be a case of waiting on nukes from US mainland to hit you. The mainland nukes would just finish the job.. Meaning if anyone opts to go nuclear it's over.. for all of us.. This is why places like NK & Iran should not have nukes..

While I agree with you.... You are aware that Iran and North Korea have never attacked anyone, right?

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

They are still in service and waiting for their time, comrade. Don't trust to wikipedia when it comes about nukes here or there... Also SS-18 will be replaced with RS-28 (aka "Satan-2" by the NATO classification).

Non functional

Just like the Koreans