After The Singapore Nuclear Summit, U.S. And North Korea Appear As Far Apart As Ever

[dyna mo]

The most fundamental difference appears to relate to the basic premise of the deal: Does North Korea give up nuclear weapons first, in exchange for a better relationship? Or is this a process that will play out step by step?

The Trump administration had previously ruled out a step-by-step approach. In May, Pompeo told reporters, "We are not going to do this in small increments, where the world is essentially coerced into relieving economic pressure." President Trump seemed to agree, saying Tuesday that Kim would begin "de-nuking" North Korea "very quickly."

The problem is that the North Korean account said the opposite — that Trump had agreed to a "step-by-step" process in which the United States would "offer security guarantees to the DPRK and lift sanctions against it..."


https://www.npr.org/2018/06/14/61988...-apart-as-ever

[Rochard]

Trump has no idea what he is doing. Sitting down and having the meeting was the easy part.

We've been here a dozen times before. I mean, we've signed a dozen agreements with North Korea before. Not one of them worked.

[pimpmaster9000]

nuke up or get USIS-ed...there can be no peace when a certain country has privatized war and made it for profit...what happens when there is no more war? the war machine just stops?

nukes = peace or nuclear winter

no nukes = you get fucked

option #1 pls

[dyna mo]

but but but trump canceled the summit in a stunning and brilliant checkmate move to get Un to agree to denuke at the summit.

[xClips Jim]

[Steve Rupe]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

The most fundamental difference appears to relate to the basic premise of the deal: Does North Korea give up nuclear weapons first, in exchange for a better relationship? Or is this a process that will play out step by step?

The Trump administration had previously ruled out a step-by-step approach. In May, Pompeo told reporters, "We are not going to do this in small increments, where the world is essentially coerced into relieving economic pressure." President Trump seemed to agree, saying Tuesday that Kim would begin "de-nuking" North Korea "very quickly."

The problem is that the North Korean account said the opposite — that Trump had agreed to a "step-by-step" process in which the United States would "offer security guarantees to the DPRK and lift sanctions against it..."


https://www.npr.org/2018/06/14/61988...-apart-as-ever

Far, far to early to speculate about what will happen or when it will happen. Within 6 months or so we should begin to have some idea.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

but but but trump canceled the summit in a stunning and brilliant checkmate move to get Un to agree to denuke at the summit.

He didn't agree to anything at the Summit. They agreed to "enter discussions".

Not to mention that we've signed a dozen such agreements with North Korea in the past.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Steve Rupe

Far, far to early to speculate about what will happen or when it will happen. Within 6 months or so we should begin to have some idea.

It's not speculation, Steve. The fact is both sides released versions of the summit and there's a wide gap between the 2 over the fundamental point of the summit- denuclearization.

pompeo even went so far as to discount what was written down in the agreement.

"When directly asked about the obvious difference between the U.S. and North Korean readouts on phasing — "Was the North['s] account of the meeting accurate when they said that President Trump had agreed to a phased approach?" — Pompeo responded with a statement that should be a huge red flag: "I'm going to leave the content of our discussions as between the two parties, but one should heavily discount some things that are written in other places."

The problem is that one cannot "heavily discount" how one of the two parties interprets an agreement. "

https://www.state.gov/secretary/rema.../06/283183.htm

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Rochard

He didn't agree to anything at the Summit. They agreed to "enter discussions".

Not to mention that we've signed a dozen such agreements with North Korea in the past.

that's what I'm saying. trump's 9 dimensional chess negotiating brilliance = zilch.

[Steve Rupe]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

It's not speculation, Steve. The fact is both sides released versions of the summit and there's a wide gap between the 2 over the fundamental point of the summit- denuclearization.

pompeo even went so far as to discount what was written down in the agreement.

"When directly asked about the obvious difference between the U.S. and North Korean readouts on phasing — "Was the North['s] account of the meeting accurate when they said that President Trump had agreed to a phased approach?" — Pompeo responded with a statement that should be a huge red flag: "I'm going to leave the content of our discussions as between the two parties, but one should heavily discount some things that are written in other places."

The problem is that one cannot "heavily discount" how one of the two parties interprets an agreement. "

https://www.state.gov/secretary/rema.../06/283183.htm

There are usually large "rhetorical gaps" when dealing with any foreign country let alone with NK. The words that are publicly said by either side are not of a whole lot of importance. Actions count, words, not so much. This is of course is a reflection of my experience and is my thinking on the matter.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Steve Rupe

There are usually large "rhetorical gaps" when dealing with any foreign country let alone with NK. The words that are publicly said by either side are not of a whole lot of importance. Actions count, words, not so much. This is of course is a reflection of my experience and is my thinking on the matter.

words aren't important in negotiating? words matter, Steve, negotiations and agreements are built on words that lead to the actions that stem from the words in the contract agreed to from the negotiations that are in words.

the fact remains, there is no deal. in words or actions.

[RedFred]

It was nothing more than a photo op to impress his cultists and a chance to rub elbows with another dictator. Anyone who thinks it was anything more is delusional.

[Steve Rupe]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

words aren't important in negotiating? words matter, Steve, negotiations and agreements are built on words that lead to the actions that stem from the words in the contract agreed to from the negotiations that are in words.

the fact remains, there is no deal. in words or actions.

I said "publicly" words spoken. Usually public words spoken by government officials and words actually used behind the scene have little in common. For the most part, the public, the media, do not know what is actually being said or done by the government in real time. There are somethings that are not actually known for years and a few things that may never be known. We have two forms of government. One that is known to the public and one that is not. This I know from personal experience.

The media are mostly spin machines and have little to do with truth. Watch C-span for a few months to a year, listen and see what is actually said by people in government and then compare that with what is reported by all media outlets as to what was being said or done. You will realize then that sometimes the media reporting bears little resemblance to what was actually said or done.

The media basically does not have anymore knowledge about any event than you do, especially since investigating reporting is all but dead.

You do not in "fact" know if there is no deal by "words or action" at this point in time. As you only have at your disposal media accounts or public words from politicians some of which may in fact know anymore about the subject than you do.

I will repeat in a few months time we "may" know by actions taken by both sides a little more. We will not know by the public words spoken by each side and certainly not by words from the press.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Steve Rupe

I said "publicly" words spoken. Usually public words spoken by government officials and words actually used behind the scene have little in common. For the most part, the public, the media, do not know what is actually being said or done by the government in real time. There are somethings that are not actually known for years and a few things that may never be known. We have two forms of government. One that is known to the public and one that is not. This I know from personal experience.

The media are mostly spin machines and have little to do with truth. Watch C-span for a few months to a year, listen and see what is actually said by people in government and then compare that with what is reported by all media outlets as to what was being said or done. You will realize then that sometimes the media reporting bears little resemblance to what was actually said or done.

The media basically does not have anymore knowledge about any event than you do, especially sense investigating reporting is all but dead.

we have accounts of the summit produced from both sides and those accounts do not meet at all. those are official, no media spin.

The fellow who wrote the article I cited is a NK policy wonk, not a journalist. It all certainly corresponds with reality as well. if trump achieved CVID or anything close to that he would point to it. Instead we get rhetoric. the only reason for trump or the US government to not share any specifics is because there are not any specifics, because there is no deal. Un won't denuke, and now, after trump, he doesn't need to. trump stated we can all sleep better, he solved the nuke problem. no.

[dyna mo]

re: your edit-

I know for a fact we don't have a deal. I don't need to wait for a smoking gun to know there is no deal.

[Steve Rupe]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

re: your edit-

I know for a fact we don't have a deal. I don't need to wait for a smoking gun to know there is no deal.

So be it then. You know "facts" that I don't know. I think much differently than you based upon my life's experience and knowledge. I was simply trying to educate you as to what I know from personal experience and knowledge. But I cannot do that as you are a man of "facts" so I will bow out and give up. Have a great day. Have a great life.

[dyna mo]

Steve, I have a much higher education than you.

[Steve Rupe]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

Steve, I have a much higher education than you.

I have now concluded that you are no more and no less than all of the other ignorant trolls on this board. I am disgusted with you and the other ignoramuses on this board. A man of "facts" indeed!

[dyna mo]

I knew you weren't good with facts.

[DraX]

Originally Posted by RedFred

It was nothing more than a photo op to impress his cultists and a chance to rub elbows with another dictator. Anyone who thinks it was anything more is delusional.

A delusional human being claiming others to be delusional, comedy!.