Rochard

It seems 376 people dug holes under the border wall in San Luis, Arizona on Monday, entered the United States illegally and then turned themselves into the border patrol.

They dug seven holes under the border wall.... This should pretty much end any discussion about the need to build a wall.

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BagOfDirtyAssholes

Yup. So let's just leave it wide open.

TrafficTitan

So what you are saying is that they need to improve border security? Before they had a wall illegal immigrant was way higher.

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Bladewire

We have 700 miles of border wall already

What we've learned is that people go under the wall and people go over the wall and people break the wall to get through.

IQ45 was given $1.5 billion for border security last year and has only spent 5% of it so far. We need more boots on the ground, and more tech, at the border. A lot more

Trump wants a vanity wall so when he's dead there's something there to remind people of him. Trump really cared about the border he would have spent part of that $1.5 billion to get more boots on the ground, and more tech at the border

pimpmaster9000

Does not work...invaders tried to sanction us and smugglers sent decoys...tech is your friend if you know that it will give a certain result...

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Sarn

only 376 people, just imagine how much them can be without a wall))

Rochard

What's the point of spending hundreds of billions of dollars on a wall that anyone can just dig under or go over... We can spend hundreds of billions of dollars and it won't change a damn thing.

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BagOfDirtyAssholes

I know. Might as well not even lock your doors on your home if someone can just smash a window.

Rochard

Exactly. Why would I spend $100k to re-enforce my doors when they can just break a window?

Why spend hundreds of billions of dollars so that a homeless person who has traveled a thousand miles on foot can dig a hole without tools and go under the wall?

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Axeman

Because once you have the wall, you also invest in using tunnel detection technology like Israel is using. You invest in getting better technology to detect people trying to go over. Invest in better scanners and technology to detect smuggling and drugs thru the ports of entry. And you invest in E-verify and enforcement of that vs those that don't follow it. And you hope that the E-verify and punishing the people that hire undocumented people hard, in turn reduces the visa overstay people. Once you got that working pretty well, you can then visit the option of increasing legal immigration, and debate what the makeup of those people should be.

Why do you have a door on your house, likely locked? Someone could just break your window and come in right? So why bother with the door? Or do you also use an alarm system to help fight the window breakers getting caught?

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BagOfDirtyAssholes

But the government spends 4 trillion a year. 5 billion is pennies.

that's like having $4,000 in your pocket and spending $5 bucks for a lock. it's not that much and it works. Of course someone can break your window and crawl in, and you're not going to keep out the people that really want into your house, but you will stop the lazy ones.

BagOfDirtyAssholes

He knows this. He just doesn't want the wall, like all the democrats, because Trump promised us the wall.

King Mark

America is more diverse than it's ever been. And the safest it's ever been too. How bout that? What are we trying to make "great again"?

brassmonkey

employer sanctions and some new stuff i am working on will get rid of this

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BagOfDirtyAssholes

So a diverse area is more safe than a non-diverse area?

How silly.

Sarn

it depends for whom - safety)) Saudis students feel-good - rape kill and safety for them

Rochard

Wait, what? You mean to tell us that after we spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build the wall we have to spend yet more money on tunnel detection systems? LOL.

Then... We will have to spent yet more money for people go under it.

We need a door so we can get in and out of the house. We have an alarm on both the door and the window. But by using your logic we I should invest tens of thousands on all steel doors with deadlocks and shatter proof glass. And then spend yet more money for an alarm. And yet STILL people will be able to break into my house.

Don't you get it? A wall isn't going to stop them. A tunnel detection system isn't going to stop them. Armed patrols twenty-hours a day seven days a week isn't gong to stop them. You can spend trillions of dollars on this, and they will still cross our border illegally. Most of them are going through a port of entry anyhow.

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NatalieK

shall be cost effective to do this, just have more security personnel, tech cameras & laser sensors...

i.e, a laser broke by people walking through, the security then goes to that area and arrests...

a wall dug under, who knows who or when is crossing, until you see them

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BagOfDirtyAssholes

Now that might be the case if illegals didn't cost us 100s of billions of dollars every year.

Bladewire

There are hundreds of holes dug under the wall. Hundreds

There are hundreds of tunnels going under the wall. Hundreds

The majority of illegal immigrants come in legally and overstay their visas.

You literally have to say the same facts over and over and over and over and over and over and over again for IQ45 cultists to absorb the fact. Sad for them.

SilentKnight

Buy Mexico...fix it up for a billion or two...flip it.

But seriously...

I'll never understand if so many of our North American manufacturers and corporations are moving operations to Mexico...WTF are mexicans doing coming here? Are they escaping the prospect they may have to work for a living?

All this shit about Mexico and Pumpkin Head's wall is just a bunch of distractionary smoke-and-mirrors. A decoy. A red herring. A facade. He's a magician using misdirection and sleight-of-hand to keep your attention focused elsewhere. The U.S. has become a laughing stock on the world stage...and meanwhile Nero plays fiddle to the disenchanted and the gullible.

Trumpelstiltskin is attempting to cover for the fact he has no clue or concept how to run the country. He never seriously anticipated winning the election and had no plan in the unlikely event he would.

And as long as he's got everyone debating and fighting over the wall issue, he hopes no one will notice how hopelessly inept he is at everything else.

baddog

And what makes you think they did it without tools?
If anything, this tells us we need the new wall; they would not be able to just dig under it as the footers will be deeper.

Bladewire

Not surprised you didn't see this video of immigrants digging under the wall with their hands that was all over the news and social media for days. No tools

Bladewire

Don't forget that we need our border wall on all beaches as well.

We need a secure border and thousands of miles of ocean bearing land with no wall are insecure.

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Rochard

Did they carry shovels a thousand miles? Or did they buy them at Home Depot?

So.... We need to build a wall, and it needs to be deep. Then we need detection to make sure no one digs a tunnel. Then we'll need some kind of a system to see when they are climbing over the wall. Even then, after all of that money, we'll need armed patrols twenty-four hours a day because if someone does go over or under the wall, they will be long gone after the border patrol arrives.... And even if we had armed guards every few hundred yards we still won't be able to stop them because when they come 376 at a time, they will quickly be able to overwhelm the small amount of guards when they get there.

Don't get me wrong here... I am all for border security. We have walls where we need walls. We have fences where we need fences. We have vehicle barriers where we need vehicle barriers. But there is no need to be building more walls that they will easily go under, over, through, or around... That's a waste of money.

Some 376 people just tunneled under the wall at seven different locations in one day. Pretty much makes a wall pointless.

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crockett

Yup so lets just spend countless billions to build a useless wall and keep the govt shut down for no reason.. because people will just dig under it or climb over it.. You know because people have been breaching walls since umm the middle ages.. you stupid fuck..

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SilentKnight

Bladewire

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baddog

Machine-gun nests it is. You scare me sometimes.

Acepimp

Yeah, because it's just SO easy to build tunnels!

Get real, Rochard- "hundreds" of billions? No. It's 20 to 30 billion. This is a tiny tiny percentage of the budget.



^^ FACTS

In the parts of the border where a fence was built, immigration dropped by a huge percentage

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astronaut x

Keep in mind right now that a lot of Border Patrol Agents are being furloughed due to the shutdown.

Let that sink in for a minute.

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Rochard

I said I am for border security. Everyone is. The Democrats offered up a billion bucks for border security.

But no one is talking about machine gun nests.

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Bladewire

You are scary

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Axeman

And that is why you are laughed at all day long. Just admit you are for open borders and a free for all, as long as they don't come to use your house or yard for their living quarters, or your car for their transportation. I got no issue if you believe and want that. I just have issue with your nonsense saying you are for border security and against illegal immigration. That is just a flat out lie. Just own your position. Nothing wrong with having it. Own it.

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Axeman

You are for "token" border security. But not real border security. You know damn well its a multi layered solution, which takes many things working in combination. Just most things in life. Its layered and complex, and takes a lot of things working together to make it work to a satisfactory level.

Just own your true feelings and stop lying. Nothing wrong with believing in what you believe. At least you'd be a man of conviction, which you certainly arn't now.

It's the reason nothing will ever happen on the border. Neither parties politician wants its solved. Dems want the voters. Republicans and their interests want the cheap labor. And both lie to the citizens that they want to fix it. They don't.

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Rochard

This is not true at all. In fact, I've stated before on GFY that I am for a wall.

I am also dead set against illegal immigration. If you are caught in the United States illegally, you should be arrested. However, my local police department - which at any given moment has three or four officers on duty - cannot afford to spare police officers to handle federal crimes. Larger cities - such as Oakland, California, or San Francisco - shouldn't be required to devote 10% of it's budget and hundreds of officers to handle illegal immigration. These are federal issues, not to be handled by local law enforcement. This is why the FBI doesn't come to my hometown and hand out parking tickets - it's not their job.

What I don't want is a failed businessman and former game show host telling us he has a "one size fits all" solution that costs hundreds of billions of dollars that will not be effective. We don't need to be spending tens of billions of dollars in areas where there are few illegal crossing. This money would be much better spent where the problem is - near large population centers and ports of entry.

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Bladewire

Notice how we have to constantly remind IQ45 cultists that we aren't for unsecured borders or illegal immigration?

Either they knowingly purposely lie about our position because they aren't capable of having an honest dialogue or they're so mentally inept they have to be constantly reminded of who they're talking to and what their views are. Sad

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crockett

Every time I see this picture I think, WTF were they thinking..

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AdultKing

Most illegal immigration is people coming into a country legally and then overstaying.

It's true for the USA and it's true for Australia.

We have a great big bloody sea around our entire country and we still have illegal immigration.

If spending billions of dollars on a wall that won't work is the way some people think this will be fixed then they're seriously lacking in intelligence.

Axeman

your point about local police being charged with the job, is something I agree with fully. So when I read that, I get confused that you are against federal spending to lock down the border, so that the resources are not required by local police. Spend to get the illegal crossings down to a trickle with a wall, tunnel detection technology, better detection scanning at the ports of entry. Frees up ICE and border security officials and immigration judges to actual start making a difference. What is more efficient? Spend the money up front and at the source of the issue in a contained space, or have to have 100K federal ice officers chasing down everyone in all corners of the country? Pretty obvious to me which way is better, cheaper and more effective use of resources. But no doubt I agree that local police should not be tasked with trying to enforce federal offenses. Way too much strain on the local level.

Again, a moot point as the powers that be, don't want it to happen. They just give lip service that they do.

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Bladewire

It happened 6 years ago and they abandoned the vehicle when they saw border patrol approaching

Watch the first video until the end and see another vehicle that had a built-in ladder that was successful in going over the border wall lol

Axeman

It would greatly reduce one of the sources of problems and resources. But yes people flying in and overstaying is another issue. Which requires a whole lot of resources to enforce that businesses are using the e-verify and doing random checks, and making sure that the punishment for business that skirt the law are punished hard.

Illegal immigration is a multi faceted issue, and you'll never get 100% at stopping it. But there are many more things that are available to greatly reduce it. IMO anyways.

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NoWhErE

Anytime I hear that a massive wall would actually help against illegal immigrants, I think of how this would put an end to all that hard work.

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Axeman

Hahaha god I love that show. First 3 seasons especially. Though the season 4 remix version was pretty good too.

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BagOfDirtyAssholes

It's something like 42% here. So that means almost 60% are coming over our borders. A wall is just part of a multi-facet approach at stopping it.

Bladewire

They have bucket trucks too

AdultKing

A wall needs to stop at coast line right?

What's going to stop people getting on boats and going around that way?

Bladewire

Nothing to stop them.

We get illegals entering our coastline in boats, and abandoning their boats on the beach here in California daily, just like Florida does with Cuban illegals

I made a sarcastic post earlier that we need a wall on all of our thousands of miles of beaches... to be "secure". We should be consistent right?

If we can secure our countries coastline with the coast guard in the oceans then we can secure our land border with tech and boots on the ground. Common sense.

AdultKing

I'm also wondering why Trump didn't get the wall pushed through when the GOP had control of both houses. Trump could have had funding for a wall a year ago, did this so called emergency just happen?