Business Is the porn industry growing or shrinking over the last 5 years? - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

trevesty · 10-09-2019, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thommy

i think you are not deep enough in the traffic biz to understand that you can not generally talk about CPMs.

prices for traffic depend on so many things that you can speak in the best case of an overall CPM. $12 for the free views can not be an average but some part of the traffic can produce that.

i will give you an example:

let´s say a user from china with a mobile phone enters PH on the frontpage and klicks on a video he will already execute the pop on the front page.

also this user does not have a big value as it is not easy to monetize him.

now let´s say a user from switzerland with an IOS phone, mobile connection and carrier swisscom would enter a videopage directly - $12 US CPM would be not a very high price.
you forgot that there is not only one ad on this page and if you calculate 1 pop and 5 ads you have already 6 different advertisers that pay this $12 TOGETHER.
alone the pop to such a user would be around 5-8 dollars CPM.

about the $45 CPM in the paid area I made already a calculation - but also this calculation is based on the users GEO, the device, the OS and probably the carrier and/or browser.

sure it sounds better when a producer can say he sold 10 videos for 50 dollar to 10 customers. but on the long term it is not a biz as this 10 customers can not pay more than this 50 dollar per licence and it will be a one time payment.

imagine - if PH have 1 million videos online that get their share as long as they are online we are talking about millions and millions of revenue for thousands of right holders over the time.

away from that MOST of the amateur content on PH is second monetisation - and this is also in the interest of mindgeek, which as the operator of the big amateur portals also initially going the high-priced marketing way. most of these videos have already made several thousand dollars in the amateur portals but have already exceeded their life cycle there. on the long term they make now another few thousand as content that is monetized through advertising.

so the final profit of each production is FAR more than in the good old times.

the demand on paid videos is very limited - the demand on advertising is higher than the supply - so it's always the more lucrative and flexible way in a marketing chain.

trevesty · 10-09-2019, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So buyers switching from properly lit and shot porn to amateur style porn doesn't prove if the industry is shrinking or growing. It only indicates changing tastes.

trevesty is still insanely clueless about the size and scope of the industry, like he always is.

"Properly" is subjective. Big studios still make great money. But people who shot like you did are extinct now or close to it, because it was shit to begin with. Years ago, it was all that there was - a pretty closed market with very little outside influence. Now the market has liberalized and dodo birds run around on industry boards whining.

Paul Markham · 10-09-2019, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

Wait, so you're saying the market didn't want to buy it? So it was worthless? Aka shit?

Talk to them. Stand in line at the AVN's and shoot the shit with the popular ManyVids and Chaturbate ladies. Not really that hard... or, ya know, actually be IN the industry still making good money. Neither of which you do.

I'm saying and have consistently said that magazine photographers for 1st rights solo girl image sets make $1800 from the US market, $1,000 from the UK and $600 from European markets. 1st rights last a year so at the end of the year we are free to sell 2nd rights $300 to $600 and anywhare and as many times as we liked. Not just me but everyone because that's what the magazines paid.

Then there was lesbian and boy/girl. Now tell me which sponsor pays that for every set.

Then we had the internet and sales there added another $1,000 absolute minimum. And as you can see 11 years after we shot our last model we are still selling our content.

trevesty knows nothing about the business or anything else.

Paul Markham · 10-09-2019, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpicyM

Yeah, models becoming millionaires on PH

So ... 111M ALL TIME views with 0.64 average RPM for the free videos:

111 000 * 0.64 = $71,040 total

Joined: 4 years ago

71k / 48 months >>> she probably makes around $1,500 per month average (+pennies for paid video downloads)

With 208 free videos.

Would she make much more with proper pay site and the same amount of work + creativity?
I am 100% sure she would.

Please, stop being naive guys.

A paysite would make enough for her to get a cameraman to shoot different angles close ups and still keep the amateur sound and lighting.

Paul Markham · 10-09-2019, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpicyM

No shit? Go check it out.. the only working part of her "paysite" is the store.

Not saying she can't do both. She could and she should. But claiming models earn millions on PH is wrong and naive.

He's trying to bullshit other people into giving PH free content.

Paul Markham · 10-09-2019, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

That's top mainstream rate - doubt it. Show some proof - who has made that and off what content? Let's talk to some adult producers who are getting $12 CPM consistently when fucking ESPN can't get that.

They come in here all the time to correct bullshit, so they could be expected in this case, where you're slinging bullshit. What have you got to back that up? You're talking like you call them at home - point us to some of your shit that you've monetized at that rate.

With all the 1,000s of contributing producers why have none posted here?

And how the fuck does he know, is he allowed to see their accounts?

Paul Markham · 10-09-2019, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

Thommy explain this to me - is there any way what this dude is saying is true? What producer that we or anyone knows is getting $12 CPM from Pornhub all day every day?

Most people get .30 - .70 so I suspect he's full of it, but just in case, are you saying it is possible?

$12 CPM means they have to sell clicks at a lot more than they do. Remember clicks to traffic ratio is very different.

Fake Taxi converts 1-35,000 on views from PH. $12 CPM would mean PH pay how much for the traffic?

Unless CPM = clicks per million.

Paul Markham · 10-09-2019, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBJ

So yes they DO pay $45 per 1000 Pornhub Premium. If you can't read then stay out of convos you know nothing about.

yes her 111 mil isn't premium views so she won't get $45 per 1k but they do pay that for premium

So how many views does she get on Pornhub Premium and how many does a site like Met Art get?

trevesty · 10-09-2019, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

With all the 1,000s of contributing producers why have none posted here?

And how the fuck does he know, is he allowed to see their accounts?

Well, I mean I am one, so there's that.

Dipshit.

Edit: You seem to also forget that a) most don't post on GFY, because they don't want to deal with people like you and b) even the ones who do browse / sometimes post, they're not going to bother.

"If you know, you know" as it were.

trevesty · 10-09-2019, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I'm saying and have consistently said that magazine photographers for 1st rights solo girl image sets make $1800 from the US market, $1,000 from the UK and $600 from European markets. 1st rights last a year so at the end of the year we are free to sell 2nd rights $300 to $600 and anywhare and as many times as we liked. Not just me but everyone because that's what the magazines paid.

Then there was lesbian and boy/girl. Now tell me which sponsor pays that for every set.

Then we had the internet and sales there added another $1,000 absolute minimum. And as you can see 11 years after we shot our last model we are still selling our content.

trevesty knows nothing about the business or anything else.

Uh.... a bunch of studios are paying that per scene. Not for solo girl image sets, because there's no market for it anymore really.

However, most are shot exclusively, so none of this "2nd rights" BS. Still, a studio can easily make $5k per scene as long as they don't shoot like shit.

thommy · 10-09-2019, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Unless CPM = clicks per million.

unbelievable that you argument and don´t even know what CPM means.

CPM is NOT Clicks it means CASH PER MILLE IMPRESSIONS you fullhonk

if something converts 1:35.000 and have a CTR of 0,5% it means that it converts 1:175

i really don´t know what you know about the online biz - i only know that my 4 year old grand daughter knows more than you.

you are lack on the most basic basics and with this knowledge you explain us how biz have to be done. you are by far the dumbest person that have ever posted on this board.

trevesty · 10-09-2019, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thommy

you are lack on the most basic basics and with this knowledge you explain us how biz have to be done. you are by far the dumbest person that have ever posted on this board.

it still amazes me that he's allowed to post here. at best, he provides ad impressions. at worst, he gives shit advice / contributes worthless info to people browsing who may want to expand or learn.

which is the only reason I engage him. it's important imo that those people know guys like him are completely clueless and out of touch.

Klen · 10-09-2019, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

it still amazes me that he's allowed to post here. at best, he provides ad impressions. at worst, he gives shit advice / contributes worthless info to people browsing who may want to expand or learn.

which is the only reason I engage him. it's important imo that those people know guys like him are completely clueless and out of touch.

I am quite sure nobody see Paul as authority so you dont need to worry

Beside, he start interesting topics, not everyone can be super smart in terms of discussion.

Paul Markham · 10-09-2019, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

"Properly" is subjective. Big studios still make great money. But people who shot like you did are extinct now or close to it, because it was shit to begin with. Years ago, it was all that there was - a pretty closed market with very little outside influence. Now the market has liberalized and dodo birds run around on industry boards whining.

So after I point out the big mistake you made you change your story. Now big studios make great money after the type of viewers they had have moved to amateur content that has been available since day 1. You talk as if no one ever put a camera on a tripod until recently.

Saying amateur style was never available is another really dumb thing. Check out what I was shooting when you were still sucking on your Mum's tit. Do you even know what I was shooting in 1978?

Paul Markham · 10-09-2019, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

Well, I mean I am one, so there's that.

Dipshit.

Edit: You seem to also forget that a) most don't post on GFY, because they don't want to deal with people like you and b) even the ones who do browse / sometimes post, they're not going to bother.

"If you know, you know" as it were.

So you produce and put content on Premium PH. So show us what you produce?

Here's mine. https://www.pornhub.com/video/search...+markham+teens

This was more recent. I switched styles because this style paid more.

thommy · 10-09-2019, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Do you even know what I was shooting in 1978?

we do not want to know it because we see that it lead you to nowhere.

who you want to impress with your carrier?
here you do not talk with dumb 18-year old czech girls that believed that you are the greatest porn producer in the world.

you are a grim, jealous and hate eaten old man who hasn't even managed to make enough money to live a carefree life at times when roasted chickens fell from the sky on their own.

you can at best serve as an example of how not to do it.

Paul Markham · 10-09-2019, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

Uh.... a bunch of studios are paying that per scene. Not for solo girl image sets, because there's no market for it anymore really.

However, most are shot exclusively, so none of this "2nd rights" BS. Still, a studio can easily make $5k per scene as long as they don't shoot like shit.

Show us the amateur site paying $5,000, if you can.

Magazine photographers were getting that money for solo girl sets. Video producers were getting $25,000 for scenes of the quality you say online pays $5,000. Which is why none shot content for the internet unless it was an add on for offline markets. Until offline was practically gone.

Yes most of you shot exclusive because you couldn't afford to wait for for the big money to flow in. We could afford to because I've been in the business since 1977 and made way more than what PH pay.

Paul Markham · 10-09-2019, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

it still amazes me that he's allowed to post here. at best, he provides ad impressions. at worst, he gives shit advice / contributes worthless info to people browsing who may want to expand or learn.

which is the only reason I engage him. it's important imo that those people know guys like him are completely clueless and out of touch.

So give us advice that makes sense. Like can PH afford to pay $12 CPM on free traffic. Because without figures on how much traffic Premium PH videos are getting some giving out lies.

Also do Met Art, Fake Taxi level get more views than Amateur style after people have paid?

thommy · 10-09-2019, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So you produce and put content on Premium PH. So show us what you produce?

Here's mine. https://www.pornhub.com/video/search...+markham+teens

This was more recent. I switched styles because this style paid more.

and you don´t make a fucking penny with it because they bought the rights for 2 dollar per video which is much too much for such a shit quality

even in that time when the video was made is was lowest amateur level
it was fucking easy to asskick this kind of "professionals" for everyone who can hold a camera and switch in on.

trevesty · 10-09-2019, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So after I point out the big mistake you made you change your story. Now big studios make great money after the type of viewers they had have moved to amateur content that has been available since day 1. You talk as if no one ever put a camera on a tripod until recently.

Saying amateur style was never available is another really dumb thing. Check out what I was shooting when you were still sucking on your Mum's tit. Do you even know what I was shooting in 1978?

I've never changed my story. My whole point this entire time has been to illustrate that you're clueless.

I'll Paypal you $100 if you can screen shot where I said "amateur was never available". Quit twisting shit into your delusional worldview.

I don't care what you were shooting in 1978. It has exactly zero to do with 2019.

celandina · 10-09-2019, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PamWinterReturns

A guy with a hard-on isn’t caring about production and background and lighting. A clear image of the action and the sound of wet sex and sucking and swallowing is what matters.

Homemade videos are wanted if the girl or guy is hot, hung, well-built and willing to do what viewers want to see.

The industry has grown and you have to expand your limits to compete.

you are right and also wrong:

Real home made videos are real popular, but unless there is many of them they are not easy to monetize. And yes they do NOT have to be a good quality and people will watch.

Professional productions however have to be of a good quality, otherwise they will be rejected.

and there you have it

trevesty · 10-09-2019, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

I am quite sure nobody see Paul as authority so you dont need to worry

Beside, he start interesting topics, not everyone can be super smart in terms of discussion.

Oh I know, but I'm curious if you guys realize people like him are a big reason others don't post. Myself and others don't share shit exactly because nobodies like him will spend 3 hours talking about how it's this or that while having no clue about anything. This is why we do it on private Slacks / groups on Skype instead of here.

trevesty · 10-09-2019, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So you produce and put content on Premium PH. So show us what you produce?

Here's mine. https://www.pornhub.com/video/search...+markham+teens

This was more recent. I switched styles because this style paid more.

The people who matter know what I am and have been involved with. You're not one of them. I am only here to buy when good deals present themselves and put idiots like you in your place. Other places are for constructive discussion.

Klen · 10-09-2019, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

Oh I know, but I'm curious if you guys realize people like him are a big reason others don't post. Myself and others don't share shit exactly because nobodies like him will spend 3 hours talking about how it's this or that while having no clue about anything. This is why we do it on private Slacks / groups on Skype instead of here.

Well , we do have a plan to open a private section for discussions like this.

celandina · 10-09-2019, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

The people who matter know what I am and have been involved with. You're not one of them. I am only here to buy when good deals present themselves and put idiots like you in your place. Other places are for constructive discussion.

You abusing Paul is NOT Kosher...just ignore his threads if it bothers you and do not inflame the thread with insults and bad language. He has every right ( right of wrong) to post his opinions. Where does that hurt you ? He is a veteran of this industry and so am I. And you are right, I would not know what some thieves pay to other thieves per CPM . You seem to be on top of that. When I read here that somebody is " licensing 3,000 videos per month" or "selling 5,000 videos in bulk" I can "spell a thief buying from other thieves" and pretending that they are experts. No different then somebody walking into a bank with a gun and then claiming that they know business. Being on the " policing" end of our content I am familiar with such " experts" aside to many honest people here, I have met a few of the former ones here also.

So chill out.... or does the truth hurts ?

trevesty · 10-09-2019, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Show us the amateur site paying $5,000, if you can.

Magazine photographers were getting that money for solo girl sets. Video producers were getting $25,000 for scenes of the quality you say online pays $5,000. Which is why none shot content for the internet unless it was an add on for offline markets. Until offline was practically gone.

Yes most of you shot exclusive because you couldn't afford to wait for for the big money to flow in. We could afford to because I've been in the business since 1977 and made way more than what PH pay.

.... It's almost like you have no idea how the business works in 2019. At all. Your questions are so off base.

Anyways, there's more people shooting more porn today than there ever was even 10 years ago. Likewise, consumption is substantially higher. Supply is at an all-time high as well as demand. This is what happens when markets liberalize.

25 years ago in the US, there were a few major studios with a few major distributors shipping to brick and mortar stores. Of course there was Joe Nobody in Wichita, KS, making a living selling DVD's of him fucking "amateurs" at his apartment, but that hardly made up any significant portion of the industry at the time. By and large, the industry was pretty closed off as far as production and distribution went until the internet became more accessible and prolific.

Today, if a 21 year old chick in Denver can make a decent video of her fucking her hung boyfriend, put it on PH / Modelhub, ManyVids, Clips4sale, then sell her premium Snapchat and Skype shows on the side, she can easily clear mid 6 figures per year in profit. She can make this per month if she's drop dead gorgeous, great performer and great hustler. There are quite a few who do.

At no point did I say that this is the norm for the industry-at-large now. But there's thousands of amateurs doing exactly this, and there's a whole lot of "studio" porn still coming out as well as faux-amateur from those same people - sometimes just under a different corporate umbrella.

Anyways, that PH number for premium views is pretty spot on. I've seen the monthly average be a bit lower and I've seen it be a bit higher. That doesn't mean you'll get the views, though. What does well on the free side usually does well on the premium side also. Hence AdultForce, New Sensations, MadCheddar, PaperStreetCash and Nubiles properties dominating with a few others like JulesJordan doing quite well.

But that's because all of them shoot very good content for today's market. Throwing up some cookie-cutter shit won't do well at all.

Regardless, the industry is substantially larger today especially revenue wise. Just the guys located in Montreal alone (Mindgeek, Gammae, Sex.com / Braincash) make way more money than you offline folks did even in the hayday of DVD. That doesn't include the big companies in the US, like Streamate and Chaturbate, and the massive companies in Europe / Russia.

celandina · 10-09-2019, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Well , we do have a plan to open a private section for discussions like this.

No need ( see my post above).... Paul have asked a question and the " righteous" want to ban him. Instead of yelling in " private" advise the "perps"to stay away from such treads..voice of reason.

trevesty · 10-09-2019, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celandina

You abusing Paul is NOT Kosher...just ignore his threads if it bothers you and do not inflame the thread with insults and bad language. He has every right ( right of wrong) to post his opinions. Where does that hurt you ? He is a veteran of this industry and so am I. And you are right, I would not know what some thieves pay to other thieves per CPM . You seem to be on top of that. When I read here that somebody is " licensing 3,000 videos per month" or "selling 5,000 videos in bulk" I can "spell a thief buying from other thieves" and pretending that they are experts. No different then somebody walking into a bank with a gun and then claiming that they know business. Being on the " policing" end of our content I am familiar with such " experts" aside to many honest people here, I have met a few of the former ones here also.

So chill out.... or does the truth hurts ?

There's no truth to what you said. Just a bunch of emotional hyperbole.

trevesty · 10-09-2019, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Well , we do have a plan to open a private section for discussions like this.

I'd be curious to see how you weed people out.

Axeman · 10-09-2019, 09:23 AM

The PH Premium rate for Sept was $32.12 per 1000 views. It hasn't been $45 for quite a while. Its still strong though.

Struggle4Bucks · 10-09-2019, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celandina

He has every right ( right of wrong) to post his opinions.

Unless it's about the EU, right?

Paul Markham · 10-09-2019, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

I've never changed my story. My whole point this entire time has been to illustrate that you're clueless.

I'll Paypal you $100 if you can screen shot where I said "amateur was never available". Quit twisting shit into your delusional worldview.

I don't care what you were shooting in 1978. It has exactly zero to do with 2019.

I was saying you talk as if amateur was never available. It was available and I shot and sold amateur all my career. It just never paid as well as properly shot and lit porn. Today you talk bollocks if you think good amateur scenes pay more than the better level.

Any decent shooter can find couples to fuck each other with little lighting, lights, sound for very little. Well produced porn costs more and is harder to produce. So why would they bother?

Also the quote about this model's earnings were based on free views and so far no one has offered a return on the paid views in Premium.

About trevesty
Location
Midwest

Adult Industry Sector
Webmaster

Industry Role
Webmaster

Site URL
https://www.gttmedia.com

Quote:

This site can’t be reachedThe connection was reset.
Try:

Checking the connection

Checking the proxy and the firewall

Running Windows Network Diagnostics

ERR_CONNECTION_RESET

https://gfy.com/search.php?searchid=134868

E-mail: trevesty at gmail

Yes you are a big man in the business withe inside knowledge. LOL

Paul Markham · 10-09-2019, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celandina

you are right and also wrong:

Real home made videos are real popular, but unless there is many of them they are not easy to monetize. And yes they do NOT have to be a good quality and people will watch.

Professional productions however have to be of a good quality, otherwise they will be rejected.

and there you have it

No one shoots professional productions if there's more money in amateur. The problem is there are fewer people who can shoot professional production standard. Then the law of supply and demand kicks in. Low supply high price, large supply low price.

As someone who shoots content what's the hardest to shoot professional productions or sticking a camera on a tripod and fucking?

trevesty · 10-09-2019, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I was saying you talk as if amateur was never available. It was available and I shot and sold amateur all my career. It just never paid as well as properly shot and lit porn. Today you talk bollocks if you think good amateur scenes pay more than the better level.

Any decent shooter can find couples to fuck each other with little lighting, lights, sound for very little. Well produced porn costs more and is harder to produce. So why would they bother?

Also the quote about this model's earnings were based on free views and so far no one has offered a return on the paid views in Premium.

About trevesty
Location
Midwest

Adult Industry Sector
Webmaster

Industry Role
Webmaster

Site URL
https://www.gttmedia.com

That domain exists for e-mail only.

PH article itself was shared for premium (albeit very outdated). Nobody knows individual model deals for free views revshare. Thommy was pretty spot on about the monetization side, though, on free in general.

Paul Markham · 10-09-2019, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

.... It's almost like you have no idea how the business works in 2019. At all. Your questions are so off base.

Anyways, there's more people shooting more porn today than there ever was even 10 years ago. Likewise, consumption is substantially higher. Supply is at an all-time high as well as demand. This is what happens when markets liberalize.

25 years ago in the US, there were a few major studios with a few major distributors shipping to brick and mortar stores. Of course there was Joe Nobody in Wichita, KS, making a living selling DVD's of him fucking "amateurs" at his apartment, but that hardly made up any significant portion of the industry at the time. By and large, the industry was pretty closed off as far as production and distribution went until the internet became more accessible and prolific.

Today, if a 21 year old chick in Denver can make a decent video of her fucking her hung boyfriend, put it on PH / Modelhub, ManyVids, Clips4sale, then sell her premium Snapchat and Skype shows on the side, she can easily clear mid 6 figures per year in profit. She can make this per month if she's drop dead gorgeous, great performer and great hustler. There are quite a few who do.

At no point did I say that this is the norm for the industry-at-large now. But there's thousands of amateurs doing exactly this, and there's a whole lot of "studio" porn still coming out as well as faux-amateur from those same people - sometimes just under a different corporate umbrella.

Anyways, that PH number for premium views is pretty spot on. I've seen the monthly average be a bit lower and I've seen it be a bit higher. That doesn't mean you'll get the views, though. What does well on the free side usually does well on the premium side also. Hence AdultForce, New Sensations, MadCheddar, PaperStreetCash and Nubiles properties dominating with a few others like JulesJordan doing quite well.

But that's because all of them shoot very good content for today's market. Throwing up some cookie-cutter shit won't do well at all.

Regardless, the industry is substantially larger today especially revenue wise. Just the guys located in Montreal alone (Mindgeek, Gammae, Sex.com / Braincash) make way more money than you offline folks did even in the hayday of DVD. That doesn't include the big companies in the US, like Streamate and Chaturbate, and the massive companies in Europe / Russia.

I know how the industry has changed over the last 30 years. Now that so much is free the industry can't support the better end as well as it used to. But you talk bollocks if you think girls can make 6 figures a year shooting themselves. Maybe a few do but the majority don't, purely on the supply and demand basis. If girls were mostly making 6 figures there would be 1,000s bringing down the income of all. And as you don't know what anyone earns without access to their accounts I say you're talking bollocks and all we can go by is conversion ratios and guestimates.

What this thread is about is has the industry grown or shrunk. All the people I've talked to or see post say it's shrunk.

trevesty · 10-09-2019, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I know how the industry has changed over the last 30 years. Now that so much is free the industry can't support the better end as well as it used to. But you talk bollocks if you think girls can make 6 figures a year shooting themselves. Maybe a few do but the majority don't, purely on the supply and demand basis. If girls were mostly making 6 figures there would be 1,000s bringing down the income of all. And as you don't know what anyone earns without access to their accounts I say you're talking bollocks and all we can go by is conversion ratios and guestimates.

What this thread is about is has the industry grown or shrunk. All the people I've talked to or see post say it's shrunk.

Mostly nobodies posting about that kind of information on here and nobody with any authority on the issue would talk to you regardless. In other words you have shit info, and when others present it (like thommy and I have, who do have access to that information first hand in many cases), you deny deny deny and bullshit bullshit bullshit.

This post is exactly why I said to Klen above that nobody is willing to share anything on here because idiots like you will call "bollocks" and argue from a position of ignorance. It's a waste of time.

Paul Markham · 10-09-2019, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NemesisEnforcer

At the low end, $300,000.00 (USD). If she had done it right, a high of $4 million (USD).

Here's the post he was replying to;

Which is worth what like $1110 bucks?

So the entire argument of what this girl earns is wrong.

So far no one has offered any concrete evidence and what we do know is views on the free site convert to paying customers at a rate of 1-35,000 and up.

111,000,000 / 35,000 = 3,171,428 x $45 CPM = $31,714.28

If I've done my sums right.

Paul Markham · 10-09-2019, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celandina

You abusing Paul is NOT Kosher...just ignore his threads if it bothers you and do not inflame the thread with insults and bad language. He has every right ( right of wrong) to post his opinions. Where does that hurt you ? He is a veteran of this industry and so am I. And you are right, I would not know what some thieves pay to other thieves per CPM . You seem to be on top of that. When I read here that somebody is " licensing 3,000 videos per month" or "selling 5,000 videos in bulk" I can "spell a thief buying from other thieves" and pretending that they are experts. No different then somebody walking into a bank with a gun and then claiming that they know business. Being on the " policing" end of our content I am familiar with such " experts" aside to many honest people here, I have met a few of the former ones here also.

So chill out.... or does the truth hurts ?

No worries I've been trolled by better than him.

The prices you quote are the prices the content pays these days. So the thing people come to see, isn't worth much now it's given away for free. Thankfully we made our money during the good times and I'me rich enough to retire.

Paul Markham · 10-09-2019, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

That domain exists for e-mail only.

PH article itself was shared for premium (albeit very outdated). Nobody knows individual model deals for free views revshare. Thommy was pretty spot on about the monetization side, though, on free in general.

So what ever you do is something you want kept secret.

thommy · 10-09-2019, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So far no one has offered any concrete evidence and what we do know is views on the free site convert to paying customers at a rate of 1-35,000 and up.

this is exactly what trevesty means. i did not explain you one but 100 times that a view on a banner is not what makes the conversion rate.

but you simply ignore this fact and come again and again with false facts.

that means either you do not understand this biz or you want to throw false facts in a discussion.

Quote:

111,000,000 / 35,000 = 3,171,428 x $45 CPM = $31,714.28

If I've done my sums right.

you are endless dumb !!!!!
go back to school if some school accepts you

trevesty · 10-09-2019, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thommy

this is exactly what trevesty means. i did not explain you one but 100 times that a view on a banner is not what makes the conversion rate.

but you simply ignore this fact and come again and again with false facts.

that means either you do not understand this biz or you want to throw false facts in a discussion.

you are endless dumb !!!!!
go back to school if some school accepts you

ZENRA · 10-09-2019, 12:37 PM

This thread has a good topic, but I feel like Paul just made it to start arguments.

SpicyM · 10-09-2019, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celandina

You abusing Paul is NOT Kosher...just ignore his threads if it bothers you and do not inflame the thread with insults and bad language. He has every right ( right of wrong) to post his opinions. Where does that hurt you ? He is a veteran of this industry and so am I. And you are right, I would not know what some thieves pay to other thieves per CPM . You seem to be on top of that. When I read here that somebody is " licensing 3,000 videos per month" or "selling 5,000 videos in bulk" I can "spell a thief buying from other thieves" and pretending that they are experts. No different then somebody walking into a bank with a gun and then claiming that they know business. Being on the " policing" end of our content I am familiar with such " experts" aside to many honest people here, I have met a few of the former ones here also.

So chill out.... or does the truth hurts ?

Agreed.

SpicyM · 10-09-2019, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Here's the post he was replying to;

Which is worth what like $1110 bucks?

So the entire argument of what this girl earns is wrong.

So far no one has offered any concrete evidence and what we do know is views on the free site convert to paying customers at a rate of 1-35,000 and up.

111,000,000 / 35,000 = 3,171,428 x $45 CPM = $31,714.28

If I've done my sums right.

I thought his post was about what the girl earns, not what PornHub earns, since he mentioned "if she had done it right". Re-read my post here where I explain that:
https://gfy.com/22540749-post86.html

Those $45 per 1000 was the rate in PH Premium (Viewshare), which is indented for producers / paysite owners, the current rate is lower, as Axeman mentioned. The girl Indigo White gets paid for the free views, not the premium views.

They have a formula to calculate the Viewshare rate and it is not based on ad sales since the Premium section doesn't have any, it is ad-free.

The formula is 10% of gross revenue / all viewshare views = RATE

If solo models earned hundreds of thousands of dollars on PornHub, all pornstars would quit their job and film themselves instead of working with producers.

Klen · 10-09-2019, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

I'd be curious to see how you weed people out.

Paid membership is one of the ways to make it work

SpicyM · 10-09-2019, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

Their premium sides make substantially more than $12 CPM, too.

Their premium side is Ad-free, the rate is calculated based on the revenue from the premium program.

thommy · 10-09-2019, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpicyM

Their premium side is Ad-free, the rate is calculated based on the revenue from the premium program.

correct - i mentioned that before

ilnjscb · 10-09-2019, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBJ

Like Trevesty said

https://help.pornhub.com/hc/en-us/ar...gs-calculated-

So yes they DO pay $45 per 1000 Pornhub Premium. If you can't read then stay out of convos you know nothing about.

yes her 111 mil isn't premium views so she won't get $45 per 1k but they do pay that for premium

Don't be a asshole.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thommy

i think you are not deep enough in the traffic biz to understand that you can not generally talk about CPMs.

prices for traffic depend on so many things that you can speak in the best case of an overall CPM. $12 for the free views can not be an average but some part of the traffic can produce that.

i will give you an example:

let´s say a user from china with a mobile phone enters PH on the frontpage and klicks on a video he will already execute the pop on the front page.

also this user does not have a big value as it is not easy to monetize him.

now let´s say a user from switzerland with an IOS phone, mobile connection and carrier swisscom would enter a videopage directly - $12 US CPM would be not a very high price.
you forgot that there is not only one ad on this page and if you calculate 1 pop and 5 ads you have already 6 different advertisers that pay this $12 TOGETHER.
alone the pop to such a user would be around 5-8 dollars CPM.

about the $45 CPM in the paid area I made already a calculation - but also this calculation is based on the users GEO, the device, the OS and probably the carrier and/or browser.

sure it sounds better when a producer can say he sold 10 videos for 50 dollar to 10 customers. but on the long term it is not a biz as this 10 customers can not pay more than this 50 dollar per licence and it will be a one time payment.

imagine - if PH have 1 million videos online that get their share as long as they are online we are talking about millions and millions of revenue for thousands of right holders over the time.

away from that MOST of the amateur content on PH is second monetisation - and this is also in the interest of mindgeek, which as the operator of the big amateur portals also initially going the high-priced marketing way. most of these videos have already made several thousand dollars in the amateur portals but have already exceeded their life cycle there. on the long term they make now another few thousand as content that is monetized through advertising.

so the final profit of each production is FAR more than in the good old times.

the demand on paid videos is very limited - the demand on advertising is higher than the supply - so it's always the more lucrative and flexible way in a marketing chain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StefanG

if that is true I should have never licensed flat out to Pornhub - dammit!

(PS: this means you need to take into consideration that they own a lot of the content on Pornhub Premium where they don't have to pay a share)

So what he is talking about is the few that are in the premium content. Different from free CPM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevesty

The proof has already been posted, dude. Just because you're too retarded to know how to read doesn't mean that I need to post more proof.

I talk to my friends who work on PH directly daily, yes.

Dickhead, if you were any kind of baller we'd know it. And you're conflating a premium area with free traffic. Why don't you keep a civil tongue in your head. Further, why don't you get your buddy from Pornhub that you talk to every day to pop in and give us a talk? Stefan is long time content sales and he apparently wasn't aware of these purported ratios either. If they really are doing $12/CPM wouldn't you think they'd want to send someone other than a thumb–up–his–ass minion like you to tell the world?

trevesty · 10-09-2019, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpicyM

I thought his post was about what the girl earns, not what PornHub earns, since he mentioned "if she had done it right". Re-read my post here where I explain that:
https://gfy.com/22540749-post86.html

If solo models earned hundreds of thousands of dollars on PornHub, all pornstars would quit their job and film themselves instead of working with producers.

I don't think anyone claimed that. I said that about PH + ManyVids + Clips4sale.. ad nauseum. A lot of the girls who shoot professional porn do that for whatever reason, but most don't have much of a presence outside of that. Most of the girls who hustle on Chaturbate, PH (as verified models), have a premium Snapchat and OnlyFans, etc., are hustlers. That's not the norm for porn models in general.

That's also like saying if any successful person here wrote a step-by-step guide on how to make 100k / year on auto-pilot with a $10 DO droplet and Wordpress, then everyone who has an affiliate account at say, CrakRevenue, would automatically make $100k / year because the knowledge exists and someone wrote a thorough how-to. That would be a ridiculously stupid claim to make.

trevesty · 10-09-2019, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

Don't be a asshole.

So what he is talking about is the few that are in the premium content. Different from free CPM.

Dickhead, if you were any kind of baller we'd know it. And you're conflating a premium area with free traffic. Why don't you keep a civil tongue in your head. Further, why don't you get your buddy from Pornhub that you talk to every day to pop in and give us a talk? Stefan is long time content sales and he apparently wasn't aware of these purported ratios either. If they really are doing $12/CPM wouldn't you think they'd want to send someone other than a thumb–up–his–ass minion like you to tell the world?

I've always been talking about the premium side.

But PornHub making (themselves; not models) $12 CPM is extremely likely on their free side. Will they come and post that to some blowhard on GFY? No. In what world does that make sense for them business-wise? Not to mention most of those companies have strict internal policy about NOT posting on GFY and Xbiz because of people like you and Paul.

I didn't claim to be a baller, but even if I was, I doubt you'd know it. I don't broadcast who or what or how on here - I've been pretty clear about that.

10-09-2019, 09:23 AM	#130
Axeman Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Swamp Posts: 5,201	The PH Premium rate for Sept was $32.12 per 1000 views. It hasn't been $45 for quite a while. Its still strong though. __________________ XXXRewards - Karups - Boyfun - Jawked. Paying on time since 1997. Contact me at brent [at] xxxrewards.com

10-09-2019, 12:37 PM	#142
ZENRA Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Japan Posts: 655	This thread has a good topic, but I feel like Paul just made it to start arguments. __________________ ZENRA \| Subtitled Japanese AV \| @ZENRAMANIAC JAV VR Content Manager at SexLikeReal