Business Is the porn industry growing or shrinking over the last 5 years?

[Paul Markham]

No one with any brains can claim the industry makes more than it did pre 2006, so is it making more or less money the last 6 years?

It's pointless to make claims based on personal incomes because without proof they mean nothing. Even the growth of domains could mean existing domains not doing enough.

Base it on the price of clicks to porn sites, the number of advertisers bidding for porn traffic and the price they pay, the prices for content, quantity of content, price for premium names, design prices, forum traffic, etc.

Anything but the inane "We are making loads more money because I say so."

[King Mark]

I'm no expert of how to gauge this Paul style since you have so many rules, but im sure the industry makes more money than ever... just the tubes and actual talent making most of it now... suitcase pimps, content providers and affiliates becoming increasingly obsolete.

Just my opinion tho. I dont check that stuff. That ain't my lane anymore. However, most of my social media marketing clients are straight up talent/models with no middlemen, and those are the things we've discussed.

[Major (Tom)]

Shrinking. Real porn that is. Now the iphone crowd has all became directors. For the people who can afford to produce their own real content it’s still extremely profitable. Funny how I ended up being one of the last ones standing.

[Brian mike]

I can see this thread become one of the longest AGAIN
Mr. Paul how things this morning LOL

[thommy]

Originally Posted by King Mark

I'm no expert of how to gauge this Paul style since you have so many rules, but im sure the industry makes more money than ever... just the tubes and actual talent making most of it now... suitcase pimps, content providers and affiliates becoming increasingly obsolete.

Just my opinion tho. I dont check that stuff. That ain't my lane anymore. However, most of my social media marketing clients are straight up talent/models with no middlemen, and those are the things we've discussed.

business in the porn industry for paul means to sell videos and nothing else.
for him the internet is for porn and only HIS porn.

if you take as an example livecams (and nobody will doubt that they are part of the porn industry) I can already see 10-20 new BIG portals alone in the past 5 years.

but it is senseless to explain the old fart how money is made today - he will never get it.

[crockett]

It's simple, social media removed the middle men.. Reddit for example is full of models selling direct to consumers and needing no website of their own to do it.

[The Porn Nerd]

The porn biz is like your dick Paul. It grows and shrinks, depending on the weather.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by crockett

It's simple, social media removed the middle men.. Reddit for example is full of models selling direct to consumers and needing no website of their own to do it.

to define if a biz is increasing or decreasing you always have to see the whole pot and not just one perspective.

when drones delivering the goods and replace a human delivery it does not mean that the biz itself is gone - it is just the delivery what is outdated.

imagine: if facebook would charge 5 dollar per month - how much users would they have? let´s assume they would have 0,01% it would be still a lot but not even a fraction fraction of the 60 billion they make with something that is completely free.

even a huge porn-membersite with 50.000 paying members a 10.-- US per month (and there are not many of this size or bigger) would not make more than 6 million in annual revenue. this is around 0.7% of what mindgeek alone makes.

if you see that mindgeek have less than 10% market share in the complete advertising and affiliate market in adult worldwide you see the the whole pot is damned big but still only 4 % of the complete online advertising market wich makes around 300 THOUSAND MILLION in annual revenue.

the times paul can remember have been the times when the complete adult industry had a total revenue of less than 1 billion worldwide.

[MaDalton]

[Axeman]

Originally Posted by StefanG

hahahaha. Great movie.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Axeman

hahahaha. Great movie.

i think paul watch it daily because he forgot that he have seen it yesterday already

[CurrentlySober]

Originally Posted by StefanG

Fun Fact: Its an open secret that during that scene, Bill Murray placed his erect penis inside the Groundhog, hence the look on his face...

[AmateurFlix]

Originally Posted by thommy

if you see that mindgeek have less than 10% market share in the complete advertising and affiliate market in adult worldwide you see the the whole pot is damned big but still only 4 % of the complete online advertising market wich makes around 300 THOUSAND MILLION in annual revenue.

Look at what's being promoted on the biggest sites and you'll have a rough idea of where the money is currently. For some time now, that has been cams and dating sites. Lots more money in that than in paysites.

I also see a lot of sex toys and adult video games advertised on those sites.

After that, I'd go so far as to say virus infection attempts are what advertisers are willing to spend money on

[thommy]

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

Look at what's being promoted on the biggest sites and you'll have a rough idea of where the money is currently. For some time now, that has been cams and dating sites. Lots more money in that than in paysites.

sure and not only this - there is MUCH MORE concept in it as you can see on the first view.

I also see a lot of sex toys and adult video games advertised on those sites.

not to forget enhancement, sex-holidays, gaming, gambling and even legal cannabis products are doing great.

After that, I'd go so far as to say virus infection attempts are what advertisers are willing to spend money on

of course - at least they try it again and again to run their "tech support offers" on every network they can find.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

Fun Fact: Its an open secret that during that scene, Bill Murray placed his erect penis inside the Groundhog, hence the look on his face...

Murrays or the groundhogs face?

[CaptainHowdy]

Award-winning trolling right there, people . . .

[pimpmaster9000]

If paul says its shrinking, you can safely bet money that it is growing...

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

Fun Fact: Its an open secret that during that scene, Bill Murray placed his erect penis inside the Groundhog, hence the look on his face...

Damn, Murray must have a HUGE cock 'cause that groundhog is sitting pretty high up on the steering wheel.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by King Mark

I'm no expert of how to gauge this Paul style since you have so many rules, but im sure the industry makes more money than ever... just the tubes and actual talent making most of it now... suitcase pimps, content providers and affiliates becoming increasingly obsolete.

Just my opinion tho. I dont check that stuff. That ain't my lane anymore. However, most of my social media marketing clients are straight up talent/models with no middlemen, and those are the things we've discussed.

Without content there are no tubes.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by DukeSkywalker

Shrinking. Real porn that is. Now the iphone crowd has all became directors. For the people who can afford to produce their own real content it’s still extremely profitable. Funny how I ended up being one of the last ones standing.

Agreed for those left standing they pick up from the failures. Until it's their turn to fail. We've all seen big companies go down.

[King Mark]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Without content there are no tubes.

Yeah, but try uploading some of that content you're sitting on and let us know how that worked out for you.

[NemesisEnforcer]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

No one with any brains can claim the industry makes more than it did pre 2006, so is it making more or less money the last 6 years?

It's pointless to make claims based on personal incomes because without proof they mean nothing. Even the growth of domains could mean existing domains not doing enough.

Base it on the price of clicks to porn sites, the number of advertisers bidding for porn traffic and the price they pay, the prices for content, quantity of content, price for premium names, design prices, forum traffic, etc.

Anything but the inane "We are making loads more money because I say so."

From the April 2019 report for adult and pornographic websites in the U.S. (excluding offline distribution of pornography and live webcam shows):

"Over the past five years, industry revenue increased at an annualized rate of 10.1%, including 6.2% growth projected over 2019 alone.

Over the five years to 2024, industry revenue is projected to increase at an annualized rate of 5.1% ..."

This is NOT comparing 2019 to 2006, just trends for the given years. Although the report provides numbers for revenue, it does state, "Average industry profit margins have remained low, ..."

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by crockett

It's simple, social media removed the middle men.. Reddit for example is full of models selling direct to consumers and needing no website of their own to do it.

Which illustrates your knowledge of the industry.

All models can produce is low quality content. Good content requires good camera, good lighting, good sound, skilled cameraman and good partners to perform with. Is that no longer profitable for many to shoot or has the market done a 180 degree turn and changed what it demands?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

Look at what's being promoted on the biggest sites and you'll have a rough idea of where the money is currently. For some time now, that has been cams and dating sites. Lots more money in that than in paysites.

I also see a lot of sex toys and adult video games advertised on those sites.

After that, I'd go so far as to say virus infection attempts are what advertisers are willing to spend money on

Today there is more money in cams and dating sites, but that doesn't answer my question.

Also is the dating business really porn?

If it is the best way to make money off a porn tube I see very few advertising on them. Certainly not the big ones.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by NemesisEnforcer

From the April 2019 report for adult and pornographic websites in the U.S. (excluding offline distribution of pornography and live webcam shows):

"Over the past five years, industry revenue increased at an annualized rate of 10.1%, including 6.2% growth projected over 2019 alone.

Over the five years to 2024, industry revenue is projected to increase at an annualized rate of 5.1% ..."

This is NOT comparing 2019 to 2006, just trends for the given years. Although the report provides numbers for revenue, it does state, "Average industry profit margins have remained low, ..."

Interesting. Do you have a link to the article?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy

Award-winning trolling right there, people . . .

If discussing the health of the industry isn't important, what is?

[thommy]

Originally Posted by NemesisEnforcer

From the April 2019 report for adult and pornographic websites in the U.S. (excluding offline distribution of pornography and live webcam shows):

"Over the past five years, industry revenue increased at an annualized rate of 10.1%, including 6.2% growth projected over 2019 alone.

Over the five years to 2024, industry revenue is projected to increase at an annualized rate of 5.1% ..."

This is NOT comparing 2019 to 2006, just trends for the given years. Although the report provides numbers for revenue, it does state, "Average industry profit margins have remained low, ..."

as the big companies aren´t in the US this numbers seems to be more or less correct - assuming that a big part of the revenue is not declared as "adult revenue".

"Average industry profit margins have remained low, ..."

this indicates that ad revenues are not included.
industry profits for B2C sales have been always quite low.

but in fact it only looks at the companies based in US. alone mindgeek have a higher revenue than the total 618 million they are talking here. maybe 5-6% of the worldwide online adult revenues are made from US based companies.


unfortunately paul doesn't find the dividing line between online and offline here. of course there are no more CDs sold today and of course the paid membership model lost a lot and of course that has a lot to do with the tubes.

the total world market in 2007 was 20 billion sales (included video sales and rentals, Internet sales, cable, pay-perview, phone sex, exotic dance clubs, magazines, and novelty stores) from this 20 billion 4 billion came from so called copyable media (videos, pictures) the other 16 billion can not be copied because they are based on hardware or human service.

even when the tubes would take 50% of this 4 billion it is a joke in compare to the 14 billion that are made today with paid ads on free adult sites.

paul does not understand that an advertiser on adult sites have very other targets as to make just profit with the product he promotes. many of them do not even sell something but give something for free. advertisers for "win an iphone" do not sell anything to the user, they collect emails and the value of every single email is 10 times higher than the profit that can be realized selling a membership or a video.

monetizing a site with advertising will always make more money as it can be used to sell each kind of service or product. and this gives access not only to the 0,26% of the budget we got til now from a porn site user. we can go to 100% of his buying power.
and BECAUSE it is free we get this buying power from much more people than only the ones that are willing to pay for porn.

the difference to the "good old times" is only that we all have been focused to sell one specific product - but ALL THIS PRODUCTS have been sold via advertising (just paid on other models). so without advertising this good old times would not even exist.

so the old fart is promoting adblock plus on his facebook site and does not even know where he got his little money from in his "golden days".

that alone proves enough that he doesn't even know why he made money.

[SBJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

If discussing the health of the industry isn't important, what is?

Old man, you are retired and know nothing about what makes money today.

There are a ton of amateur models that make a very good living off of making their own content. Selling their snap chat and other things like personal websites.

https://www.pornhub.com/pornstar/indigo-white

This girl has never worked with pros and she has 111 million views to her vids

https://indigowhitetv.com/store

a lot of models make good money with clips stores like many vids.

Most cam models that make any money invest in softbox lights, HD cams, and DSLR cameras.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Which illustrates your knowledge of the industry.

All models can produce is low quality content. Good content requires good camera, good lighting, good sound, skilled cameraman and good partners to perform with. Is that no longer profitable for many to shoot or has the market done a 180 degree turn and changed what it demands?

amateurs produced HD content already when it was too expensive for you.
their content is shown at beate uhse TV and the big payTV stations. yours is not
because it is amateur.

the one and only thing i have to admit is that you mostly had cute models but the quality
and creativity was FAR lower than the quality I saw in this time from the so called amateurs.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by SBJ

Old man, you are retired and know nothing about what makes money today.

There are a ton of amateur models that make a very good living off of making their own content. Selling their snap chat and other things like personal websites.

https://www.pornhub.com/pornstar/indigo-white

This girl has never worked with pros and she has 111 million views to her vids

https://indigowhitetv.com/store

a lot of models make good money with clips stores like many vids.

Most cam models that make any money invest in softbox lights, HD cams, and DSLR cameras.

but if paul does not like the truth it is not the truth.

[SBJ]

Originally Posted by thommy

but if paul does not like the truth it is not the truth.

Yup. It's not the 90's and the way people make money is so much different today.

I make most of my money off CB and my phone sex job. With promoting paysites, I get a few sales from time to time. The tubes changed the game.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by SBJ

The tubes changed the game.

same happend to cinemas when free TV came

and film industry was finally rescued from the ones that could adapt

here is a very interesting article with many similarities

https://www.encyclopedia.com/arts/cu...ry-early-1950s

[Roald]

nevermind.

[ilnjscb]

Originally Posted by SBJ

https://www.pornhub.com/pornstar/indigo-white

This girl has never worked with pros and she has 111 million views to her vids

Which is worth what like $1110 bucks?

[SBJ]

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

Which is worth what like $1110 bucks?

I have no idea how much they are paid for views but that was just one of 10 ways a girl like her makes money.

[The Porn Nerd]

So according to Thommy the only thing porn is nowadays is ADS ADS ADS eh?

[NemesisEnforcer]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Interesting. Do you have a link to the article?

Not an article, it's a research report from one of the think tanks.

[NemesisEnforcer]

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

Which is worth what like $1110 bucks?

At the low end, $300,000.00 (USD). If she had done it right, a high of $4 million (USD).

[thommy]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

So according to Thommy the only thing porn is nowadays is ADS ADS ADS eh?

everything is ads ads ads - no product ist sold without promotion and the advertising industry is the biggest industry online - any doubts on that?

[fuzebox]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Which illustrates your knowledge of the industry.

All models can produce is low quality content. Good content requires good camera, good lighting, good sound, skilled cameraman and good partners to perform with. Is that no longer profitable for many to shoot or has the market done a 180 degree turn and changed what it demands?

Customers have proven that they now prefer "low quality" content produced by the model, and are willing to pay for it.

Your knowledge of the industry is obselete.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by fuzebox

Customers have proven that they now prefer "low quality" content produced by the model, and are willing to pay for it.

Your knowledge of the industry is obselete.

obsolete is a nice paraphrase for stupidity.

[SBJ]

Originally Posted by NemesisEnforcer

At the low end, $300,000.00 (USD). If she had done it right, a high of $4 million (USD).

$300k sounds a lot better than 11k. Not a bad pay for making 215 videos at home when you have time.

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by NemesisEnforcer

At the low end, $300,000.00 (USD). If she had done it right, a high of $4 million (USD).

Damn, my video views (for all my sites) is well over ONE BILLION VIEWS over the past 10+ years.

But hey, there is no money in porn.

[trevesty]

Originally Posted by DukeSkywalker

Shrinking. Real porn that is. Now the iphone crowd has all became directors. For the people who can afford to produce their own real content it’s still extremely profitable. Funny how I ended up being one of the last ones standing.

Plenty of new studios and old companies launching new sites all the time that's "real".

They just have no presence on GFY.

[trevesty]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Which illustrates your knowledge of the industry.

All models can produce is low quality content. Good content requires good camera, good lighting, good sound, skilled cameraman and good partners to perform with. Is that no longer profitable for many to shoot or has the market done a 180 degree turn and changed what it demands?

Paul, there are many girls using their iPhone to make more money than your shit content ever did. Some of these girls are clearing $250k+ PER MONTH from all outlets (premium Snapchat / clip sites / PornHub's platforms, etc).

"Good" content is determined by what the market will purchase; not by your shit standards.

[ZENRA]

Barrier to entry has never been easier, but at the same time, you're a slave now more to the various networks (MV, PH Models, C4S, etc etc) rather than having more direct control.

As others have noted, being so easy to produce and sell makes more competition for regular studios which may end up producing less big budget titles with storylines and big crews.

[ilnjscb]

Originally Posted by NemesisEnforcer

At the low end, $300,000.00 (USD). If she had done it right, a high of $4 million (USD).

What. Are. You. Smoking??

115M = 115,000 CPM at MAYBE .30 with the way they do revshare and usually not every view is monetized. More like 30% of views.

Absolute best case 115,000 * .30 = 40k$

Dude a top line mainstream site averages 12$ CPM porn? Hell no.

[Major (Tom)]

Originally Posted by trevesty

Plenty of new studios and old companies launching new sites all the time that's "real".

They just have no presence on GFY.

My point is, there are tons of cell phone producers. When I started it was about millions. Now when people start, it’s about getting laid & making enough to pay bills

[ilnjscb]

Originally Posted by DukeSkywalker

My point is, there are tons of cell phone producers. When I started it was about millions. Now when people start, it’s about getting laid & making enough to pay bills

This - why would you not listen to an established name and a long time poster? You can google him and see all his work.

Content creation has changed drastically - that is the side Paul is coming at it from.

[SBJ]

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

What. Are. You. Smoking??

115M = 115,000 CPM at MAYBE .30 with the way they do revshare and usually not every view is monetized. More like 30% of views.

Absolute best case 115,000 * .30 = 40k$

Dude a top line mainstream site averages 12$ CPM porn? Hell no.

well there is this
https://help.pornhub.com/hc/en-us/ar...gs-calculated-

Viewshare Rate

Viewshare pays out a monthly rate per thousand views on your content. The rate is based on the program's performance on that particular month on a whole. A percentage of the revenue of Premium is paid out to all the videos in Viewshare and each video gets a piece of the revenue based on the amount of views.
Basically, the better Pornhub Premium does as a whole, the more money you make.
For example, in 2017, the average Viewshare rate was $45 per 1000 views.