Recurring AVS or paysite -- whats your take? - GoFuckYourself.com

optikalz · 06-12-2003, 07:38 AM

Need some info from more experienced paysite operators and AVS gurus out there: I've got 2000 pics, about 5 hours of video, and 6 tours designed. Should I use a recurring AVS for this or just start a regular paysite and build an affiliate program?

My thoughts re cost/benefit analysis so far:

AVS upside

No billing/chargeback mess
Centralized customer service
I can upsell within members' area
AVS link list provides qualified traffic

AVS downside

pricing is inflexible
no additional revenue model except members' area upsell

Paysite upside

Flexible pricing
Cross Sell revenue
Up sell revenue
Exit traffic revenue
email collection revenue

Paysite downside

persistent content upgrade costs
hacking issues
webmaster fraud issues

Any other cost/benefit items I've left out? I appreciate your experience in fully completing this list so I can decide.

crescentx · 06-12-2003, 07:43 AM

AVS downside:

AVS appears to be next on VISA's list of targets : http://xbiz.com/articles/index.php?article_idp=549

Horny Dude · 06-12-2003, 08:41 AM

I would go with AVS. You can get rebills for life on some AVS systems. I don't see much happening with the Visa thing except a name change for AVS and thats it. Just go with one of the big boys like Pro Adult and you'll be making money in no time!

Flow · 06-12-2003, 08:45 AM

I would go with AVS as well. You pretty much named the benefits of AVS and if you choose the right AVS, the premium member's area will help pick up the slack of your sites downfalls. Plus you don't have to spend quite as much money on updates as most Premium AVS only make you as like 50 photos a month. Let all those other sites on the AVS link list and the AVS member's area be your updates!

I would go with either Free Net Pass Premium or One Verify. Both have killer member's area that is sure to keep your members for months to come.

Flow

optikalz · 06-12-2003, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crescentx
AVS downside:

AVS appears to be next on VISA's list of targets : http://xbiz.com/articles/index.php?article_idp=549

Thanks for the heads up on that. Also another downside is copyright issues. Anyone got a link to the latest development re the lawsuit versus AC?

Tipsy · 06-12-2003, 08:52 AM

AVS downside - a LOT of people who haven't paid you a penny will also be downloading your stuff and burning BW.

Hammer · 06-12-2003, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crescentx
AVS downside:

AVS appears to be next on VISA's list of targets : http://xbiz.com/articles/index.php?article_idp=549

I'd hold off on the AVS thing for a while. The ruling came down officially yesterday and most AVSs are under severe scrutiny by Visa and the FTC. Many of them will be shut down.

Claude · 06-12-2003, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crescentx
AVS downside:

AVS appears to be next on VISA's list of targets : http://xbiz.com/articles/index.php?article_idp=549

Wouldn´t you rather call AC PAY a 3.party processor, isn´t that what they do, just like Ibill and CCbill. Correct me if I´m wrong ??

Anyway, I would go with AVS anytime. The retention and conversion is just so much better, even if it comes down to AVS webmasters (Site builder, not the AVS owners) having to pay the $750 Visa fee they advantages are still great.

Look at my sig, if your content is fetish related...

Hammer · 06-12-2003, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Claude

Wouldn´t you rather call AC PAY a 3.party processor, isn´t that what they do, just like Ibill and CCbill. Correct me if I´m wrong ??

Anyway, I would go with AVS anytime. The retention and conversion is just so much better, even if it comes down to AVS webmasters (Site builder, not the AVS owners) having to pay the $750 Visa fee they advantages are still great.

Look at my sig, if your content is fetish related...

Is bondagepass.com an IPSP?

Drake · 06-12-2003, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tipsy
AVS downside - a LOT of people who haven't paid you a penny will also be downloading your stuff and burning BW.

It wouldn't matter as long as he uses free bannerless domain hosting provided by the AVS

Hammer · 06-12-2003, 09:20 AM

Are you affiliated with bondagepass.com or are you just promoting them?

I just took a look at bondagepass.com and they are violating the current regulations with the wording on the site. They can no longer use the terminology 'participating sites.'

Gutterboy · 06-12-2003, 09:35 AM

It depends on your content.

With some content, a premium AVS is the way to go. A good example of this is building an amateur site and putting it on ProAdult Quantum. Members who join your site also get access to the paid area of Voyeurweb and a shitload of other amateur stuff.. pretty much an inexhaustible supply of porn.. so those things will make up for whatever shortcomings your members area has.

On the other hand, if you've got, say, a hentai site, and you try put it on the same premium AVS I mentioned above, its not gonna help you retain because the AVS doesn't have much of the sort of shit the surfer joined your site to see.

So with some sorts of content, a good premium AVS can pick up the slack if you've not got time or content to do regular updates. But if you've got something special, and you can update regularly, the profit potential with a paysite is MUCH greater.

Question: how many of you who've recommended AVS over paysite have run both?

AOLGuy · 06-12-2003, 09:41 AM

I have found that a recurring AVS is an easier sell, and you have a better marketing hook than doing a single-bill site.

It helps greatly with retention, as is the case with PROAdult Quantum, which I am seeing is holding up 70%+ in recurrings each month, and there is far less hassle than doing your own standalone paysite.

Gutterboy · 06-12-2003, 09:49 AM

One other thing to consider...

I would be VERY cautious about putting several gigabytes worth of movies behind an AVS. Not because of the AVS members.. you can keep your site off of the LL by request at most places.. but because almost all AVS scripts and the .htaccess files used along with them are vulnerable to referrer spoofing.

Everyone who can use zspoof, teleport pro, or one of the other referring URL spoofers is going to be leeching you dry as soon as you start advertizing the site. With pics, the BW loss is an acceptable cost of doing business that way. With gigabytes worth of movies, getting leeched hard could put you in the hole.

optikalz · 06-12-2003, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gutterboy
It depends on your content.

With some content, a premium AVS is the way to go. A good example of this is building an amateur site and putting it on ProAdult Quantum. Members who join your site also get access to the paid area of Voyeurweb and a shitload of other amateur stuff.. pretty much an inexhaustible supply of porn.. so those things will make up for whatever shortcomings your members area has.

....

so hopefully this will result in long retention

optikalz · 06-12-2003, 10:52 AM

Good point. Leechers at phatforums often post spoofs for proadult's redclouds movie servers

Quote:

Originally posted by Gutterboy
One other thing to consider...

I would be VERY cautious about putting several gigabytes worth of movies behind an AVS. Not because of the AVS members.. you can keep your site off of the LL by request at most places.. but because almost all AVS scripts and the .htaccess files used along with them are vulnerable to referrer spoofing.

Everyone who can use zspoof, teleport pro, or one of the other referring URL spoofers is going to be leeching you dry as soon as you start advertizing the site. With pics, the BW loss is an acceptable cost of doing business that way. With gigabytes worth of movies, getting leeched hard could put you in the hole.

optikalz · 06-12-2003, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33

It wouldn't matter as long as he uses free bannerless domain hosting provided by the AVS

Which AVS provide bannerless hosting? I'll just transfer my domain. Do they also provide CGI and PHP support?

Rictor · 06-12-2003, 11:02 AM

AVS...once you master that you may be ready to start a paysite.

optikalz · 06-12-2003, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rictor
AVS...once you master that you may be ready to start a paysite.

Is this like some sort of "Kung Fu" Kwang Chai Kane 10 steps to webmastering? Didn't successful programs like Silver Cash go straight from regular webmastering to paysite networks?

Claude · 06-12-2003, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Hammer

Is bondagepass.com an IPSP?

No, it´s an AVS.
It doesn´t do 3.party billing..

Claude · 06-12-2003, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Hammer
Are you affiliated with bondagepass.com or are you just promoting them?

I just took a look at bondagepass.com and they are violating the current regulations with the wording on the site. They can no longer use the terminology 'participating sites.'

Could you tell me more about that. What regulations and where can I read more about it. Never heard of that before, why ca´n´t an AVS use the term "participating sites" anymore ???

And, Yeah.. Bondagepass.com is my site

AOLGuy · 06-12-2003, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by linkyd

Which AVS provide bannerless hosting? I'll just transfer my domain. Do they also provide CGI and PHP support?

PROAdult has free bannerless hosting for their PROAdult and PROAdult Quantum program.

Really quick setup time and all around good folks.

They allow CGI and PHP... just send an email once you register and they'll turn it on...

optikalz · 06-12-2003, 11:49 AM

Do they supply the content as well? How is their EBONY collection?

Quote:

Originally posted by AKFK

PROAdult has free bannerless hosting for their PROAdult and PROAdult Quantum program.

Really quick setup time and all around good folks.

They allow CGI and PHP... just send an email once you register and they'll turn it on...

AOLGuy · 06-12-2003, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by linkyd
Do they supply the content as well? How is their EBONY collection?

They have three ebony sites included in their main Quantum members area, which are easily pushed in your tour...

Put together something good, and add related links to highlights from their content directory, simple conversion and retention...

Chris E · 06-12-2003, 12:44 PM

optikalz · 06-12-2003, 12:50 PM

But do they have free ebony content I can use?

Quote:

Originally posted by AKFK

They have three ebony sites included in their main Quantum members area, which are easily pushed in your tour...

Put together something good, and add related links to highlights from their content directory, simple conversion and retention...

AOLGuy · 06-12-2003, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by linkyd
But do they have free ebony content I can use?

You can link from inside your member's area, but for promotion and building your site, no.

Why not drop a few bucks on some content? Most AVS-provided stuff I've seen is so overused...

optikalz · 06-12-2003, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKFK

You can link from inside your member's area, but for promotion and building your site, no.

Why not drop a few bucks on some content? Most AVS-provided stuff I've seen is so overused...

The reason I ask is because I'm trying to figure out what would make proadult any different from AdultBouncer. AB definitely has more free ebony content and rocking vids. The drawback is NO INTERNAL LINKS and AB takes fucking forever to approve sites

optikalz · 06-12-2003, 01:03 PM

Another drawback of AVS -- (outside of the link lists, which I guess you can pimp by cranking out dozens of avs sites every day) lack of traffic volume except for your own.

Adultbouncer fixes this by allowing wm's to set up webmaster programs. I believe DeluxePass does the same thing.

How do these work out for you guys?

Rictor · 06-12-2003, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by linkyd

Is this like some sort of "Kung Fu" Kwang Chai Kane 10 steps to webmastering? Didn't successful programs like Silver Cash go straight from regular webmastering to paysite networks?

I really doubt that many successful webmaster programs have been started by people who didn't have years of experience in the biz or who weren't smart enough to hire people with experience to run the program for them.

Hammer · 06-12-2003, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Claude

Could you tell me more about that. What regulations and where can I read more about it. Never heard of that before, why ca´n´t an AVS use the term "participating sites" anymore ???

And, Yeah.. Bondagepass.com is my site

Claude, since you work with CCBill I'd suggest contacting your AE over there to find out about the latest rulings. I was talking with someone there this morning and we discussed AVS's for quite some time. Thanks to Visa, AVS's are no longer allowed to be used for age verification. Also, they can no longer promote the fact that by joining you can get access to thousands of "participating" sites. It also looks like they are going to classify all AVs's as IPSP'S.

pimplink · 06-12-2003, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rictor

I really doubt that many successful webmaster programs have been started by people who didn't have years of experience in the biz or who weren't smart enough to hire people with experience to run the program for them.

Epic Cash is quite successful and the guy who runs it didn't do AVS

pimplink · 06-12-2003, 10:26 PM

Another downside to paysite is you need quite a bit of $$$ to start one. Even if its partnership, you still need to fork out some $ for exclusive content.

pimplink · 06-14-2003, 06:22 AM

Any other thoughts on this? Let's hear it from the PAYSITE people

Tipsy · 06-14-2003, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Hammer

Claude, since you work with CCBill I'd suggest contacting your AE over there to find out about the latest rulings. I was talking with someone there this morning and we discussed AVS's for quite some time. Thanks to Visa, AVS's are no longer allowed to be used for age verification. Also, they can no longer promote the fact that by joining you can get access to thousands of "participating" sites. It also looks like they are going to classify all AVs's as IPSP'S.

Simply not true at the moment. It doesn't mean it won't change in the near future though.

pimplink · 06-14-2003, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tipsy

Simply not true at the moment. It doesn't mean it won't change in the near future though.

Good point

amph · 06-14-2003, 06:39 AM

linkyd hit me up on ICQ, i know a great solution for your needs

06-12-2003, 07:38 AM	#1
optikalz Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Lost Angelez Posts: 555	Recurring AVS or paysite -- whats your take? Need some info from more experienced paysite operators and AVS gurus out there: I've got 2000 pics, about 5 hours of video, and 6 tours designed. Should I use a recurring AVS for this or just start a regular paysite and build an affiliate program? My thoughts re cost/benefit analysis so far: AVS upside No billing/chargeback mess Centralized customer service I can upsell within members' area AVS link list provides qualified traffic AVS downside pricing is inflexible no additional revenue model except members' area upsell Paysite upside Flexible pricing Cross Sell revenue Up sell revenue Exit traffic revenue email collection revenue Paysite downside persistent content upgrade costs hacking issues webmaster fraud issues Any other cost/benefit items I've left out? I appreciate your experience in fully completing this list so I can decide.

06-12-2003, 07:43 AM	#2
crescentx Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 317	AVS downside: AVS appears to be next on VISA's list of targets : http://xbiz.com/articles/index.php?article_idp=549 __________________ XYCash International Gay Affiliate Program

06-12-2003, 08:41 AM	#3
Horny Dude Earn enough to buy coffee Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: San Diego, Ca. Posts: 4,913	I would go with AVS. You can get rebills for life on some AVS systems. I don't see much happening with the Visa thing except a name change for AVS and thats it. Just go with one of the big boys like Pro Adult and you'll be making money in no time! __________________

06-12-2003, 08:52 AM	#6
Tipsy Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: See sig Posts: 6,989	AVS downside - a LOT of people who haven't paid you a penny will also be downloading your stuff and burning BW. __________________ Ignorance is never bliss.

06-12-2003, 09:20 AM	#11
Hammer Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 961	Are you affiliated with bondagepass.com or are you just promoting them? I just took a look at bondagepass.com and they are violating the current regulations with the wording on the site. They can no longer use the terminology 'participating sites.' __________________ Porn Site Pros - Custom Website Design, Turnkey Webcam and Pay Sites, SEO, and Consulting

06-12-2003, 08:45 AM	#4
Flow Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 518	I would go with AVS as well. You pretty much named the benefits of AVS and if you choose the right AVS, the premium member's area will help pick up the slack of your sites downfalls. Plus you don't have to spend quite as much money on updates as most Premium AVS only make you as like 50 photos a month. Let all those other sites on the AVS link list and the AVS member's area be your updates! I would go with either Free Net Pass Premium or One Verify. Both have killer member's area that is sure to keep your members for months to come. Flow

06-12-2003, 09:35 AM	#12
Gutterboy So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Dis Posts: 4,751	It depends on your content. With some content, a premium AVS is the way to go. A good example of this is building an amateur site and putting it on ProAdult Quantum. Members who join your site also get access to the paid area of Voyeurweb and a shitload of other amateur stuff.. pretty much an inexhaustible supply of porn.. so those things will make up for whatever shortcomings your members area has. On the other hand, if you've got, say, a hentai site, and you try put it on the same premium AVS I mentioned above, its not gonna help you retain because the AVS doesn't have much of the sort of shit the surfer joined your site to see. So with some sorts of content, a good premium AVS can pick up the slack if you've not got time or content to do regular updates. But if you've got something special, and you can update regularly, the profit potential with a paysite is MUCH greater. Question: how many of you who've recommended AVS over paysite have run both? Last edited by Gutterboy; 06-12-2003 at 09:43 AM..

06-12-2003, 09:41 AM	#13
AOLGuy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Nebraska Posts: 1,261	I have found that a recurring AVS is an easier sell, and you have a better marketing hook than doing a single-bill site. It helps greatly with retention, as is the case with PROAdult Quantum, which I am seeing is holding up 70%+ in recurrings each month, and there is far less hassle than doing your own standalone paysite.

06-12-2003, 09:49 AM	#14
Gutterboy So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Dis Posts: 4,751	One other thing to consider... I would be VERY cautious about putting several gigabytes worth of movies behind an AVS. Not because of the AVS members.. you can keep your site off of the LL by request at most places.. but because almost all AVS scripts and the .htaccess files used along with them are vulnerable to referrer spoofing. Everyone who can use zspoof, teleport pro, or one of the other referring URL spoofers is going to be leeching you dry as soon as you start advertizing the site. With pics, the BW loss is an acceptable cost of doing business that way. With gigabytes worth of movies, getting leeched hard could put you in the hole. Last edited by Gutterboy; 06-12-2003 at 09:54 AM..

06-12-2003, 11:02 AM	#18
Rictor Old Timer Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 12,208	AVS...once you master that you may be ready to start a paysite.

06-12-2003, 12:44 PM	#25
Chris E Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,895	AVS

06-12-2003, 01:03 PM	#29
optikalz Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Lost Angelez Posts: 555	Another drawback of AVS -- (outside of the link lists, which I guess you can pimp by cranking out dozens of avs sites every day) lack of traffic volume except for your own. Adultbouncer fixes this by allowing wm's to set up webmaster programs. I believe DeluxePass does the same thing. How do these work out for you guys?

06-12-2003, 10:26 PM	#33
pimplink Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Closer than you think Posts: 9,535	Another downside to paysite is you need quite a bit of $$$ to start one. Even if its partnership, you still need to fork out some $ for exclusive content. __________________ Need Mainstream Content and SEO? SEO * Website Copy * Blogs Blogging - PR Work - Forum Marketing - Social Marketing - Link building - Articles 100% Guaranteed Content!

06-14-2003, 06:22 AM	#34
pimplink Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Closer than you think Posts: 9,535	Any other thoughts on this? Let's hear it from the PAYSITE people __________________ Need Mainstream Content and SEO? SEO * Website Copy * Blogs Blogging - PR Work - Forum Marketing - Social Marketing - Link building - Articles 100% Guaranteed Content!

06-14-2003, 06:39 AM	#37
amph Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: LaLaLand Posts: 1,245	linkyd hit me up on ICQ, i know a great solution for your needs __________________ MEATCASH PWNZ THE INTERWEB ____________ ICQ:30768214 ~~~~~~~~~