Anyone in Aus get an Acacia Packet?? - GoFuckYourself.com

Sausage · 07-30-2003, 07:00 PM

Haven't heard of anyone in Aus getting one, but if theres one way to find out its to ask here. The patent isn't covered in Aus, and I wonder if they are gonna try and change that, or even if they can.

Jayson · 07-30-2003, 07:31 PM

Yes I know of some who have the packet, some have even received second batches of information.

Dont be so sure their patent wont stand up in Australia. There is cross border agreements that let them get their patent registered and backdated to the initial US

date without too much hassle.

Shark · 07-30-2003, 09:20 PM

Yep,, I got one last year in the early batches and another last week.

I wouldnt be suprised if more turn up as they appear to be getting the mailing info from whois lookups and multiple names with the same adress are causing multiple packets to be sent.

Sausage · 07-30-2003, 10:14 PM

Is it just their normal package, or any info relating to how they justify going after us when they know their patent is valid here .... yet ?

Would be interesting to know whether they applied here and if it was knocked back.

kiwi · 07-30-2003, 10:50 PM

Hypothetically, what if you sue them in small claims court? Make the maximum claim allowed under small claims for fraud, negligent misrepresentation, intentional infliction of emotional suffering, intimidation, unlawful interference, breaching the Fair Trading Act, punitive damages and costs including all arbitration fees and related charges.

You have plenty of evidence from statements made by their CEO, for example how it is cheaper to settle rather than contest their claim etc. You have a fantastic case if your site don't even host streaming videos!

If I understand Australian law correctly you can represent yourself in small claims court? If your case makes them spend even 10 billable hours X US$400, it will cost them US$4000 while costing you almost nothing (hypothetically speaking of course)!

You can also make a scam complaint to the Office of Fair Trading.

Cheers

BRISK · 07-30-2003, 10:59 PM

I believe that if you sue them, you have to sue them in a California court, and if they sue you, they have to sue you in an Australian court.

International lawsuits aren't cheap.

Sausage · 07-30-2003, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRISK
I believe that if you sue them, you have to sue them in a California court, and if they sue you, they have to sue you in an Australian court.

International lawsuits aren't cheap.

There have been a few adult lawsuits brought to Australia and while a few of them stood up, the amount awarded was funny. it was a waste of money an time.

Not sure about the patent info, but I know that suing in aus is much harder than in the US.

Matt_WildCash · 07-31-2003, 12:55 AM

I talked to our Lawyers in Australia about some other stuff, Perfect10 was giving us some threats which is bullshit cause we didn't do anything to them (they thought we did).

Anyways our lawyers said that they can sue you in the USA if your servers are located there then the law was broken in that country. So they sue you, you don't defend yourself they win by default.

Then this part scared me. He said they can bring that lawsuit over to the Australian grand jury and have a judgement made valid in Australia.

I'm not sure exactly how it works. but thats what they told us.

Sausage · 07-31-2003, 12:58 AM

Time to move servers to Canada.
Maybe I should pay the $100per gig pricing for hosting over here

Damn ... $4,000,000 a month for hosting would hurt.

kiwi · 07-31-2003, 01:20 AM

what if you're hosted on a bulletproof box somewhere in China?

But I think it's hardly worth the expense of suing a independent webmaster in Aus

The Other Steve · 07-31-2003, 01:32 AM

Sausage - we got a package this week - came complete with a niche little cd-rom. If you want to have a look at it hit me up via the icq on the sig's site.

Basically if someone gets a judgment in the US they can have it registered here in Australia for a minimal cost (there is no grand jury here in Australia though) enforcement is not difficult if you haven't taken precautions to cover your bum.

I spent 20 years enforcing court judgments and I've handled a couple of international ones - it's not pleasant to be on the receiving end of one.

Odin88 · 07-31-2003, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Basically if someone gets a judgment in the US they can have it registered here in Australia for a minimal cost (there is no grand jury here in Australia though) enforcement is not difficult if you haven't taken precautions to cover your bum.

So in other words, we should all start supporting webmasters who choose to fight them!

Shark · 07-31-2003, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sausage
Is it just their normal package, or any info relating to how they justify going after us when they know their patent is valid here .... yet ?

It's the same package we got last year, except this time they included a cd and copy of a statement relating to the default judgements against those companies that did not defend themselves recently.

Carrie · 07-31-2003, 08:21 PM

What was on the CD?

The Other Steve · 07-31-2003, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Odin88

So in other words, we should all start supporting webmasters who choose to fight them!

In other words you should make a decision based on what is right for the long-term - and short term survival of your business.

The Other Steve · 07-31-2003, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie
What was on the CD?

Carrie - the accompanying letter says that the CD contains "copies of the patents, engineering diagrams which illustrate exaples of our patent coverage, frequently asked questions ..."

Kevin2 · 07-31-2003, 10:29 PM

Sausage I received one last year July or August. I called Berman on the phone and told him I was removing the videos. I haven't heard from them since.

07-30-2003, 07:00 PM	#1
Sausage Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 3,012	Anyone in Aus get an Acacia Packet?? Haven't heard of anyone in Aus getting one, but if theres one way to find out its to ask here. The patent isn't covered in Aus, and I wonder if they are gonna try and change that, or even if they can.

07-30-2003, 07:31 PM	#2
Jayson Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: CZ Posts: 554	Yes I know of some who have the packet, some have even received second batches of information. Dont be so sure their patent wont stand up in Australia. There is cross border agreements that let them get their patent registered and backdated to the initial US date without too much hassle. __________________ Sapphic Cash - We Do It Right

07-30-2003, 10:59 PM	#6
BRISK Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,240	I believe that if you sue them, you have to sue them in a California court, and if they sue you, they have to sue you in an Australian court. International lawsuits aren't cheap. __________________ I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do, I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

07-31-2003, 01:20 AM	#10
kiwi Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 118	what if you're hosted on a bulletproof box somewhere in China? But I think it's hardly worth the expense of suing a independent webmaster in Aus Last edited by kiwi; 07-31-2003 at 01:26 AM..

07-31-2003, 01:32 AM	#11
The Other Steve Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sunny Queensland - perfect one day and better the next. Posts: 2,106	Sausage - we got a package this week - came complete with a niche little cd-rom. If you want to have a look at it hit me up via the icq on the sig's site. Basically if someone gets a judgment in the US they can have it registered here in Australia for a minimal cost (there is no grand jury here in Australia though) enforcement is not difficult if you haven't taken precautions to cover your bum. I spent 20 years enforcing court judgments and I've handled a couple of international ones - it's not pleasant to be on the receiving end of one. __________________ Left intentionally blank ... just like my brain

07-30-2003, 09:20 PM	#3
Shark Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 205	Yep,, I got one last year in the early batches and another last week. I wouldnt be suprised if more turn up as they appear to be getting the mailing info from whois lookups and multiple names with the same adress are causing multiple packets to be sent.

07-30-2003, 10:14 PM	#4
Sausage Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 3,012	Is it just their normal package, or any info relating to how they justify going after us when they know their patent is valid here .... yet ? Would be interesting to know whether they applied here and if it was knocked back.

07-30-2003, 10:50 PM	#5
kiwi Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 118	Hypothetically, what if you sue them in small claims court? Make the maximum claim allowed under small claims for fraud, negligent misrepresentation, intentional infliction of emotional suffering, intimidation, unlawful interference, breaching the Fair Trading Act, punitive damages and costs including all arbitration fees and related charges. You have plenty of evidence from statements made by their CEO, for example how it is cheaper to settle rather than contest their claim etc. You have a fantastic case if your site don't even host streaming videos! If I understand Australian law correctly you can represent yourself in small claims court? If your case makes them spend even 10 billable hours X US$400, it will cost them US$4000 while costing you almost nothing (hypothetically speaking of course)! You can also make a scam complaint to the Office of Fair Trading. Cheers

07-31-2003, 12:55 AM	#8
Matt_WildCash Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,699	I talked to our Lawyers in Australia about some other stuff, Perfect10 was giving us some threats which is bullshit cause we didn't do anything to them (they thought we did). Anyways our lawyers said that they can sue you in the USA if your servers are located there then the law was broken in that country. So they sue you, you don't defend yourself they win by default. Then this part scared me. He said they can bring that lawsuit over to the Australian grand jury and have a judgement made valid in Australia. I'm not sure exactly how it works. but thats what they told us.

07-31-2003, 12:58 AM	#9
Sausage Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 3,012	Time to move servers to Canada. Maybe I should pay the $100per gig pricing for hosting over here Damn ... $4,000,000 a month for hosting would hurt.

07-31-2003, 08:21 PM	#14
Carrie Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Virgin - nee Posts: 3,162	What was on the CD?

07-31-2003, 10:29 PM	#17
Kevin2 Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 1,429	Sausage I received one last year July or August. I called Berman on the phone and told him I was removing the videos. I haven't heard from them since. __________________ Webmasters Trade Traffic!!!