CANADA's HEALTHCARE... pros & cons - GoFuckYourself.com

goBigtime · 10-03-2003, 06:25 PM

What are the good and bad things about Canadas healthcare system?

How long does it take to get an appointment (I've heard it can take months)

How long does it take to get an MRI or CT if you needed one?

Sly_RJ · 10-03-2003, 06:28 PM

I would imagine it's "free" for a reason. I'm interested in this as well though.

doober · 10-03-2003, 06:31 PM

dont you go thinkin of movin up now, ya hear...

12clicks · 10-03-2003, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by goBigtime
What are the good and bad things about Canadas healthcare system?

How long does it take to get an appointment (I've heard it can take months)

How long does it take to get an MRI or CT if you needed one?

MRI in canada means manual rectal insertion in canada.

ZoiNk · 10-03-2003, 06:35 PM

Depends on your province, since health care is handled by each indivual province and not at a federal level. There are general rules at the federal level, but all funding is dictating by what the province wants, including fees.

Some provinces pay fees. I pay $40 or something a month in alberta (because I make too much to get it free). There are places where you don't pay at all, no matter what you make. Apointments here (edmonton) can take weeks to a month at a family doctor. There are also walk in clinics all over the place, so from instant to a couple hours to see one of those doctors.

Waiting in emergency as long as 4 hours before, and as little as 15 minutes.

Drug prices are regulated by the government, so you pay the same at almost every pharmacy (most places charge a $5-10 'filling fee' that makes the only price difference).

Cons: Sometimes you can wait up to ~8 months for specific procedures that require high end medical training and devices like an MRI or such if you aren't put into the more urgent list.

Pros: You can go to any doctor you wish at any time, and know if you don't like them, you can go to another doctor right then without ever worrying that it isn't covered or you will have to pay a single penny.

Almost everything is covered in hospitals, except if you ask for a private room, cable tv, etc.

ZoiNk

ZoiNk · 10-03-2003, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

MRI in canada means manual rectal insertion in canada.

Dood, I had a Barium enema, that is a manual rectal insertion with an inflatable balloon to keep the tube in :>
ZoiNk

10-03-2003, 06:56 PM

My dad recently found out he has to have double bypass heart surgery. They booked the appointment for about 1 1/2 months after he had his angiogram.

I've heard of people having to wait up to a year though for certain things. It's first come, first serve I guess.

I have had good luck so far killing all my illnesses with booze, so hopefully that continues to work for me. (knock on wood)

Manga1 · 10-03-2003, 07:30 PM

My wife is pregnant and it's not costing us a penny. She has weekly visits to her OBGYN, access to ultrasounds, and a kick ass hospital to deliver the baby where she will stay for a couple of days. All for free.

Her best friend lives in California and she is also pregnant. She has insurance but in the end giving birth will still cost her $6k even with the insurance. If she didn't have insurance it would cost her an arm and a leg to give birth.

On the other hand my uncle recently passed away from lung cancer. He had to wait months to get in for kemotherapy and by that time the cancer had already spread. In the US he would've at least been able to pay for the kemotherapy and gotten it in time.

Overall though, Canada's health care kicks ass. 98% of the time you get treatment fast and free.

EZRhino · 10-03-2003, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sly_RJ
I would imagine it's "free" for a reason. I'm interested in this as well though.

True

the Shemp · 10-03-2003, 07:37 PM

you guys are funny.... there is no "free" health care.
its paid for out of your taxes. I dont think Canada has any aircraft carriers, either.

directfiesta · 10-03-2003, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by the Shemp
you guys are funny.... there is no "free" health care.
its paid for out of your taxes. I dont think Canada has any aircraft carriers, either.

You are right on that. People here should say that there is no " direct on the spot" cost.

The system is paid for by a premium taken from your salary and the equivalent or more from the employer. Most provinces are running a deficit and pluging it by reattributing other budgeted money to it.

But if you are rich or poor, you will be treated and in the same way. This is neat. A heart attack can cost in the US up to 100 000.00 . Here it is all paid by the system.

Remember, no system is perfect.

12clicks · 10-03-2003, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta

But if you are rich or poor, you will be treated and in the same way.

yes, inferiorly.
Here in america, most half decent jobs come with healthcare. You get the BEST treatment and don't have to wait.

who in their right mind would give that up?

LadyMischief · 10-03-2003, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta

You are right on that. People here should say that there is no " direct on the spot" cost.

The system is paid for by a premium taken from your salary and the equivalent or more from the employer. Most provinces are running a deficit and pluging it by reattributing other budgeted money to it.

But if you are rich or poor, you will be treated and in the same way. This is neat. A heart attack can cost in the US up to 100 000.00 . Here it is all paid by the system.

Remember, no system is perfect.

In Alberta they pay a fee every three months.. in Ontario here it's "free", however I find they cover more in Alberta. There are starting to be a lot of private clinics popping up too, where if you have the money you can have procedures done much more quickly than being on a waiting list. Honestly, I must say that even with a doctor's shortage we have where I live, I still get pretty darn good care. I don't have to pay for my ob/gyn visits, my surgeries, etc... For kids a lot of things are free.. I believe they cover eye exams etc for kids until they are 16..

I'm fucking glad I don't have to deal with bullshit HMOS or dumb insurance.

LadyMischief · 10-03-2003, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

yes, inferiorly.
Here in america, most half decent jobs come with healthcare. You get the BEST treatment and don't have to wait.

who in their right mind would give that up?

How on earth is it inferior? I've heard more horror stories from people who had to deal with HMOS and insurance than I've ever heard here. And all the care I've ever recieved has been TOP NOTCH, and I will say the same about the care given my children and other family in the hospital. I think doctors are more willing to go out on a limb in a country where they don't have to worry about being sued for looking at someone in a way that might be construed as "malpractice". Maybe it's just me.

12clicks · 10-03-2003, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Manga1

Her best friend lives in California and she is also pregnant. She has insurance but in the end giving birth will still cost her $6k even with the insurance. If she didn't have insurance it would cost her an arm and a leg to give birth.

wrong.

LadyMischief · 10-03-2003, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

wrong.

Say that to the person footing the bill.

goBigtime · 10-03-2003, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

You get the BEST treatment and don't have to wait.

No you don't. And yes you do.

Before you want to praise the US healthcare system (which is currently ran by lobbyists, insurance companies & HMO's) -- spend a little time in it as an average Joe.

If it were so great, I wouldn't be inquiring about another COUNTRIES healthcare system.

I'm sure that certain providers in certain zip codes know better than to dick people around, but in most areas, if you have a problem that has a less-than-obvious solution it might take you 20 visits 12-24 months just for them to run through the proper tests.

The only reason they do this is to appease insurance companies. You have to go through the chepest tests first, report back for the results (get charged for another visit), test more, report back, test more, over and over again.

goBigtime · 10-03-2003, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

who in their right mind would give that up?

People who haven't been sick.

Sure if you break your arm they'll fix you up in no time. But if you have a illness that is any sort of challenge to them, well, practitioners have an unspoken time allocation per visitor... they need to get you out and move on to the next guy as fast as possible to meet their quotas & keep their jobs (jobs that they don't really like anyway because they would rather have their own practice, but can't because of the price of malpractice insurance).

Which leads to the ridiculous number of visits over an even more ridiculous amount of time to get to the bottom of your ever day average mystery illness.

sacX · 10-03-2003, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

yes, inferiorly.
Here in america, most half decent jobs come with healthcare. You get the BEST treatment and don't have to wait.

who in their right mind would give that up?

so you can just as easily get private health insurance in countries with well supported public systems.. You don't have to give it up.

sacX · 10-03-2003, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by evildick
My dad recently found out he has to have double bypass heart surgery. They booked the appointment for about 1 1/2 months after he had his angiogram.

I've heard of people having to wait up to a year though for certain things. It's first come, first serve I guess.

I have had good luck so far killing all my illnesses with booze, so hopefully that continues to work for me. (knock on wood)

It's not first come first served. There are tiers, scoring scales etc (of course not perfect) so the most urgent cases are treated first.

sacX · 10-03-2003, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by goBigtime
What are the good and bad things about Canadas healthcare system?

How long does it take to get an appointment (I've heard it can take months)

How long does it take to get an MRI or CT if you needed one?

It would depend. If you came into the emergency department with symptoms of a stroke, or traumatic head injury you're not gonna wait for a CT. The cost of a CT is becoming fairly trivial anyway..

For an MRI it would depend on urgency etc, and lack of sensitivity of other imaging modalities. But if you need an MRI you shouldn't have to wait, it would be more a factor of whether you REALLY need an MRI.

Peaches · 10-03-2003, 10:59 PM

As pointed out earlier, Canadian health care isn't free. In fact, when I worked for a Canadian company, almost all our employees in Canada had supplemental health insurance.

You can get individual PPO or major medical insurance in the US where you can go to any doctor you want to see, no referrals ever needed, etc. You can even pay for it yourself and see whomever you want (I doubt Bill Gates has an HMO.

)

My doctor spends as much time with me as I need. I can get an appointment Monday afternoon if I call Monday AM and really need one. I scheduled my yearly mammogram and pap smear (yuck) this week and I have appointments for both next week.

Americans were spoiled by having corporations paying for their insurance, and in return, their medical care for so long that they didn't see the rise in costs. However, costs have risen due to more modern technology, cost of living increases, and the hospitals/doctors/government having to foot the bill for those with no insurance who won't pay their bills.

The government so far has screwed up almost every thing they've taken out of the private sector and I don't expect health care to be any different.

BTW, people from other countries - including Canada - come to the US for specialized health care. They only time I've heard of Americans wanting to go to Canada for health care is because it's "free".

jayeff · 10-03-2003, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

yes, inferiorly.
Here in america, most half decent jobs come with healthcare. You get the BEST treatment and don't have to wait.

who in their right mind would give that up?

More predictable nonsense... the WHO ranks the US 15th in the world for its overall healthcare standards, 30+ for longevity and infant mortality, behind ALL the European countries, Canada and Japan with their various forms of universal health care. Find some contrary figures if you can.

Despite fewer doctor/hospital visits and shorter hospital stays, the real cost of health care in the US is over 40% more than the next most expensive country (Switzerland). Again, produce some contrary figures if you have them.

I have spent the last 3 years visiting doctors and hospitals here, first with one of my daughters and more recently for myself. I have lost track of the hours we spent in waiting rooms and BTW she waited almost 3 months for the first operation on a brain tumor that ultimately killed her.

Yes, if you live in a country with a universal health care program, you will wait longer for operations that are not considered urgent. If that doesn't suit you, the cost of "going private", simply because there is a choice instead of a private monopoly, could be as little as 1/10th of what it would be in the US. Above all, rich or poor, private insurance or not, your health needs will be dealt with.

Against that, thousands of people are bankrupted in the US every year by medical bills. Millions have no cover or inadequate cover. And those who do get proper attention with no financial consequences, nevertheless pay more, whether directly or indirectly.

How exactly is that a better option?

the Shemp · 10-03-2003, 11:41 PM

Infant mortality rates (2002)
deaths per 1,000 births

Sweden...................3.44
Finland.....................3.76
Netherlands..............4.31
Australia..................4.90
Canada....................4.95
United Kingdom..........5.45
USA.........................6.69
Cuba........................7.27
Israel........................7.55
Iraq.........................57.61

goBigtime · 10-03-2003, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peaches

You can get individual PPO or major medical insurance in the US where you can go to any doctor you want to see, no referrals ever needed, etc.

Incorrect.

This is how it is supposed to work, but every place you call will ask for a referral from your primary doctor -- even when you explain you have PPO insurance and one is not needed.

At that point, half the places will say "Sorry, its our policy.. you need a referral."

Keep in mind these are specialists who are specifically approved by the PPO.

If you kick and scream enough about the fact that you pay higher premiums and use a PPO plan specifically to be able to go directly to a specialist, then maybe 25% of the time they will probably back down and give you an appointment.

But at that point, why would you want an appointment from them? They aren't doing their job or following the rules from the begining.

iroc409 · 10-04-2003, 12:08 AM

socialized health care would not work in the states. not now. it would be a disaster.

Aly-Python · 10-04-2003, 12:18 AM

The benefit to Canada's system is that if you need help, you'll get it, and it won't put anyone below the poverty line trying to pay it off.

Remember, it's not FREE for most, it's taxed. Kind of like paying American health insurance, except in Canada it's mandatory if you make a living.

Doctors in most provinces are generally good but underpaid, so many have moved to the US. Which isn't so good! So, the general rule of thumb is, if it's an emergency, or a minor issue, or check up, you'll be fine in Canada. If you need a good surgeon and can afford it, you find one in the US.

Not that I live in Canada anymore... I moved with the Doctors.

Sly_RJ · 10-04-2003, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by goBigtime

I'm sure that certain providers in certain zip codes know better than to dick people around, but in most areas, if you have a problem that has a less-than-obvious solution it might take you 20 visits 12-24 months just for them to run through the proper tests.

I think it really depends where you live.

In the past couple months I've seen the doctor 3 different times, 2 different doctors, about an eye infection that I have. Nothing they're prescribing is working. They look at my eyes for 2 minutes, say "oh it's an infection" and prescribe medicine that doesn't work. Joy. I'm going to give these guys one more shot, if they don't fix the problem I'll wait and get it checked out in Iowa when I go back for Christmas.

The California Health System is way too strapped for cash. I never had problems like this in Iowa.

Sly_RJ · 10-04-2003, 01:23 AM

And another thing, waiting times in California suck. I had to wait 4 weeks to get my vision checked. In Iowa I could most likely get an appointment in the same week. Granted, there's more people in California. But there's also more clinics and hospitals.

I don't understand the whole "wait for a doctor" approach.

quiet · 10-04-2003, 01:26 AM

Canada heath care is great. you can see who ever you want, and the quality is top notch. but you pay shitloads of taxes for the privilege.

i have doctors in 3 different cities. I can make an appointment and see any one of them within a couple days. and if you really need to see someone, you can head to a medicenter and be in a doctor's offic in less than an hour...

MetaMan · 10-04-2003, 01:30 AM

its obviouly -20 celcius out her year round, so there is major problem with frost bite cases amoungst canadian eskimoes (75% of the popualiton). thus we need healthcare for free because of the cold.

jayeff · 10-04-2003, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iroc409
socialized health care would not work in the states. not now. it would be a disaster.

I'm not sure the people of Vermont would agree with you. 92% of adults and 96% of Vermont children now have health coverage after Howard Dean's 11-year term as governor and his support of (near) universal health care in that state.

Dean was also a strict budget balancer as well as a tax cutter and obviously didn't see any conflict between those ideals and a liberal health program.

Shoplifter · 10-04-2003, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

yes, inferiorly.

I can vouch from personal experience that the Canadian healthcare system is good only at simple levels of treatment. If you have an acute issue like a broken arm or if you are having a baby you'll be fine.

If you have cancer or you are in need of a heart procedure chances are you are a dead man.

I've actually been put in the position of bribing doctors to deal with more difficult issues.

goBigtime · 10-04-2003, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

I think it really depends where you live.

The California Health System is way too strapped for cash. I never had problems like this in Iowa.

Exactly.

But trust that If you are in Beverly Hills, the service is a little better

What you said about your eye infection is very true... the eye infection might warrant some other time consuming test to be done, but rather than do that, they first attempt the quick, cheap fix. If it doesn't work, then they'll try a nother.. untill you go in there 4 or 5 times with the same problem then they'll say something like "Oh.. this really is a problem for you. Ok, well lets try to figure it out...."

And that's the point where you want to call out scalpel!

You're right though.. maybe simply moving back out of California will be a better solution.

genomega · 10-04-2003, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jayeff

I'm not sure the people of Vermont would agree with you. 92% of adults and 96% of Vermont children now have health coverage after Howard Dean's 11-year term as governor and his support of (near) universal health care in that state.

Dean was also a strict budget balancer as well as a tax cutter and obviously didn't see any conflict between those ideals and a liberal health program.

Heh and how many people live in Vermont?

BTW, all of the children in the US have health care coverage.

LadyMischief · 10-04-2003, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shoplifter

I can vouch from personal experience that the Canadian healthcare system is good only at simple levels of treatment. If you have an acute issue like a broken arm or if you are having a baby you'll be fine.

If you have cancer or you are in need of a heart procedure chances are you are a dead man.

I've actually been put in the position of bribing doctors to deal with more difficult issues.

This isn't neccessarily true.. It also really depends on just how good your personal physician is. I know that my doctor in Alberta was PHENOMINAL at working the system to get his patients exactly what they needed, when they needed it, no matter HOW big or small. He saved my life, and my grandmother's more than once.

Sarah_Jayne · 10-04-2003, 08:21 AM

National Healthcare Systems (such as we have in the UK) are not free. They are free AT THE POINT OF DELIVERY. We pay for them through taxes.

The NHS is the UK has its problems but it has already saved my life a few times and my husbands many times and we didn't have to starve to do it.

Peaches · 10-04-2003, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by goBigtime

Incorrect.

This is how it is supposed to work, but every place you call will ask for a referral from your primary doctor -- even when you explain you have PPO insurance and one is not needed.

At that point, half the places will say "Sorry, its our policy.. you need a referral."

Keep in mind these are specialists who are specifically approved by the PPO.

If you kick and scream enough about the fact that you pay higher premiums and use a PPO plan specifically to be able to go directly to a specialist, then maybe 25% of the time they will probably back down and give you an appointment.

But at that point, why would you want an appointment from them? They aren't doing their job or following the rules from the begining.

Interesting. I've had BCBS PPO for my son and myself for over 7 years. I've never ONCE had to get a referral and between the two of us over this time, we've probably seen 10+ different specialists.

SENSEX · 10-04-2003, 08:45 AM

bottom line is, if you have an emergency your going to be treated right away, it all depends on the seriousness of the situation. If you got to the emergency room cause you have a cold, well expect to wait hours- and serves you right! Only once have I been admitted to a hospital and I was 8 years old at the time.
If you have cancer, and it needs treating ASAP it's going to be treated right away. Is the system perfect? Not by a long shot.

LadyMischief · 10-04-2003, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SENSEX
bottom line is, if you have an emergency your going to be treated right away, it all depends on the seriousness of the situation. If you got to the emergency room cause you have a cold, well expect to wait hours- and serves you right! Only once have I been admitted to a hospital and I was 8 years old at the time.
If you have cancer, and it needs treating ASAP it's going to be treated right away. Is the system perfect? Not by a long shot.

What system is?

ADL Colin · 10-04-2003, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta
But if you are rich or poor, you will be treated and in the same way.

I don't like that. I want to be treated better than everyone else.

FATPad · 10-04-2003, 09:11 AM

The US system is almost an adversarial relationship. Patients want proper healthcare and they want all the tests, time, etc it takes to figure out what's really wrong or to prevent problems from getting worse or even happening in the first place, but doctors are given kickbacks from the HMO's for running fewer expensive tests and keeping costs down and have other quotas to maintain.

And you know when you go in the absolute first thing they always ask is "do you have insurance?". If you say no, you start to wonder if you're moved to the bottom of the list. Get him in and get him out, he can't pay for this.

The referral system is crap. They don't have the best doctors available...they have the ones that agreed to the lowest rates and perform the fewest expensive tests.

wtf kind of system is that?

I love the US, and regardless of what anyone says I think it's a great country to live in, but our healthcare system is pathetic.

Peaches · 10-04-2003, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FATPad
I love the US, and regardless of what anyone says I think it's a great country to live in, but our healthcare system is pathetic.

Why does everyone keep acting like HMO's are the only form of healthcare available in the US? You have choices:

HMO
PPO
Major Medical
Hospitalization/Surgical
Self Pay

SENSEX · 10-04-2003, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyMischief

What system is?

no system is... but the health care system is better then the immigration system.
Ive always said before health care becomes better the immigration system must be better. If you ever go to the emergency room its nothing but Somalians or Paki's complaining about a fucking cold. If we eliminate the immigrants the health care system would improve. Not all immigrants just the ones from the 3rd world countrys that contribute nothing to our economy due to their lack of education & work ethics. Somalians in particular. At least Pakistanians and Indians drive cabs and buses. Call me racist, but think long and hard... Have you ever seen a Somali working??? A Somali working is about as rare as a Jewish foreskin.
but the immigration system is a whole other mess.

10-03-2003, 06:25 PM	#1
goBigtime Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7,761	CANADA's HEALTHCARE... pros & cons What are the good and bad things about Canadas healthcare system? How long does it take to get an appointment (I've heard it can take months) How long does it take to get an MRI or CT if you needed one?

10-03-2003, 06:28 PM	#2
Sly_RJ Live Hard - Die Hard Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ready to leave... Posts: 17,042	I would imagine it's "free" for a reason. I'm interested in this as well though. __________________ PHAT SERVERS - Quality dedicated hosting at a quality price! sly AT phatservers DOT com - 147479144

10-03-2003, 06:35 PM	#5
ZoiNk Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 2,370	Depends on your province, since health care is handled by each indivual province and not at a federal level. There are general rules at the federal level, but all funding is dictating by what the province wants, including fees. Some provinces pay fees. I pay $40 or something a month in alberta (because I make too much to get it free). There are places where you don't pay at all, no matter what you make. Apointments here (edmonton) can take weeks to a month at a family doctor. There are also walk in clinics all over the place, so from instant to a couple hours to see one of those doctors. Waiting in emergency as long as 4 hours before, and as little as 15 minutes. Drug prices are regulated by the government, so you pay the same at almost every pharmacy (most places charge a $5-10 'filling fee' that makes the only price difference). Cons: Sometimes you can wait up to ~8 months for specific procedures that require high end medical training and devices like an MRI or such if you aren't put into the more urgent list. Pros: You can go to any doctor you wish at any time, and know if you don't like them, you can go to another doctor right then without ever worrying that it isn't covered or you will have to pay a single penny. Almost everything is covered in hospitals, except if you ask for a private room, cable tv, etc. ZoiNk __________________ "People can have the Model T in any color - so long as it's black." - Henry Ford

10-03-2003, 07:37 PM	#10
the Shemp congrats to the winners Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Echo Beach Posts: 10,891	you guys are funny.... there is no "free" health care. its paid for out of your taxes. I dont think Canada has any aircraft carriers, either. __________________ i use Vacares...so should you Submit your picture galleries to my site...Outlaw TGP

10-03-2003, 11:41 PM	#24
the Shemp congrats to the winners Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Echo Beach Posts: 10,891	Infant mortality rates (2002) deaths per 1,000 births Sweden...................3.44 Finland.....................3.76 Netherlands..............4.31 Australia..................4.90 Canada....................4.95 United Kingdom..........5.45 USA.........................6.69 Cuba........................7.27 Israel........................7.55 Iraq.........................57.61 __________________ i use Vacares...so should you Submit your picture galleries to my site...Outlaw TGP

10-03-2003, 06:31 PM	#3
doober Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: in yoOoo kitchen Posts: 6,984	dont you go thinkin of movin up now, ya hear...

10-03-2003, 06:56 PM	#7
evildick Guest Posts: n/a	My dad recently found out he has to have double bypass heart surgery. They booked the appointment for about 1 1/2 months after he had his angiogram. I've heard of people having to wait up to a year though for certain things. It's first come, first serve I guess. I have had good luck so far killing all my illnesses with booze, so hopefully that continues to work for me. (knock on wood)

10-03-2003, 07:30 PM	#8
Manga1 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Malakiaville Posts: 952	My wife is pregnant and it's not costing us a penny. She has weekly visits to her OBGYN, access to ultrasounds, and a kick ass hospital to deliver the baby where she will stay for a couple of days. All for free. Her best friend lives in California and she is also pregnant. She has insurance but in the end giving birth will still cost her $6k even with the insurance. If she didn't have insurance it would cost her an arm and a leg to give birth. On the other hand my uncle recently passed away from lung cancer. He had to wait months to get in for kemotherapy and by that time the cancer had already spread. In the US he would've at least been able to pay for the kemotherapy and gotten it in time. Overall though, Canada's health care kicks ass. 98% of the time you get treatment fast and free.

10-03-2003, 10:59 PM	#22
Peaches Old broad Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Away Posts: 13,933	As pointed out earlier, Canadian health care isn't free. In fact, when I worked for a Canadian company, almost all our employees in Canada had supplemental health insurance. You can get individual PPO or major medical insurance in the US where you can go to any doctor you want to see, no referrals ever needed, etc. You can even pay for it yourself and see whomever you want (I doubt Bill Gates has an HMO. ) My doctor spends as much time with me as I need. I can get an appointment Monday afternoon if I call Monday AM and really need one. I scheduled my yearly mammogram and pap smear (yuck) this week and I have appointments for both next week. Americans were spoiled by having corporations paying for their insurance, and in return, their medical care for so long that they didn't see the rise in costs. However, costs have risen due to more modern technology, cost of living increases, and the hospitals/doctors/government having to foot the bill for those with no insurance who won't pay their bills. The government so far has screwed up almost every thing they've taken out of the private sector and I don't expect health care to be any different. BTW, people from other countries - including Canada - come to the US for specialized health care. They only time I've heard of Americans wanting to go to Canada for health care is because it's "free".

10-04-2003, 12:08 AM	#26
iroc409 Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: midwest side, yo Posts: 4,728	socialized health care would not work in the states. not now. it would be a disaster. __________________ <a href="http://www.iroc409.com/"><img src="http://www.iroc409.com/adv/120x60.gif" border=0></a> icq: 1 7 6 4 2 0 9 6 0 Gallery templates for ONLY $25! w00t!

10-04-2003, 12:18 AM	#27
Aly-Python Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: West Hollywood Posts: 1,439	The benefit to Canada's system is that if you need help, you'll get it, and it won't put anyone below the poverty line trying to pay it off. Remember, it's not FREE for most, it's taxed. Kind of like paying American health insurance, except in Canada it's mandatory if you make a living. Doctors in most provinces are generally good but underpaid, so many have moved to the US. Which isn't so good! So, the general rule of thumb is, if it's an emergency, or a minor issue, or check up, you'll be fine in Canada. If you need a good surgeon and can afford it, you find one in the US. Not that I live in Canada anymore... I moved with the Doctors. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

10-04-2003, 01:23 AM	#29
Sly_RJ Live Hard - Die Hard Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ready to leave... Posts: 17,042	And another thing, waiting times in California suck. I had to wait 4 weeks to get my vision checked. In Iowa I could most likely get an appointment in the same week. Granted, there's more people in California. But there's also more clinics and hospitals. I don't understand the whole "wait for a doctor" approach. __________________ PHAT SERVERS - Quality dedicated hosting at a quality price! sly AT phatservers DOT com - 147479144

10-04-2003, 01:26 AM	#30
quiet we'll miss you our friend. RIP Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Fernie, BC Posts: 25,115	Canada heath care is great. you can see who ever you want, and the quality is top notch. but you pay shitloads of taxes for the privilege. i have doctors in 3 different cities. I can make an appointment and see any one of them within a couple days. and if you really need to see someone, you can head to a medicenter and be in a doctor's offic in less than an hour... __________________ we'll miss you our friend. RIP Last edited by quiet; 10-04-2003 at 01:28 AM..

10-04-2003, 01:30 AM	#31
MetaMan I AM WEB 2.0 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,682	its obviouly -20 celcius out her year round, so there is major problem with frost bite cases amoungst canadian eskimoes (75% of the popualiton). thus we need healthcare for free because of the cold.

10-04-2003, 08:21 AM	#37
Sarah_Jayne Now with more Jayne Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 40,077	National Healthcare Systems (such as we have in the UK) are not free. They are free AT THE POINT OF DELIVERY. We pay for them through taxes. The NHS is the UK has its problems but it has already saved my life a few times and my husbands many times and we didn't have to starve to do it.

10-04-2003, 08:45 AM	#39
SENSEX Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Someplace Special Posts: 1,159	bottom line is, if you have an emergency your going to be treated right away, it all depends on the seriousness of the situation. If you got to the emergency room cause you have a cold, well expect to wait hours- and serves you right! Only once have I been admitted to a hospital and I was 8 years old at the time. If you have cancer, and it needs treating ASAP it's going to be treated right away. Is the system perfect? Not by a long shot.

10-04-2003, 09:11 AM	#42
FATPad Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,693	The US system is almost an adversarial relationship. Patients want proper healthcare and they want all the tests, time, etc it takes to figure out what's really wrong or to prevent problems from getting worse or even happening in the first place, but doctors are given kickbacks from the HMO's for running fewer expensive tests and keeping costs down and have other quotas to maintain. And you know when you go in the absolute first thing they always ask is "do you have insurance?". If you say no, you start to wonder if you're moved to the bottom of the list. Get him in and get him out, he can't pay for this. The referral system is crap. They don't have the best doctors available...they have the ones that agreed to the lowest rates and perform the fewest expensive tests. wtf kind of system is that? I love the US, and regardless of what anyone says I think it's a great country to live in, but our healthcare system is pathetic. __________________ <a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>