Why the hell do we give it all away for free ?? - GoFuckYourself.com

Mango · 08-12-2001, 02:33 AM

Hi Folks.

Just a bit frustrated. Was thinking for the last hours (yeah, it happens), and it really made me pissed. Think of all those galleries you can visit, think of the free video's, free live chats... How are we supposed to earn money this way ?? Everybody is giving it away for free, including me. How stupid can we be ? Our job is to TEASE the surfer, not to saturate him. Am I right to think that we should try to censor our pics, so that we could link through to a sponsor and get the cash ? Admit, whatever you want to see on the net, you'll find it. Those TGP's were our product, but they killed us. Look at the quality of their traffic. Every TGP-surfer knows what they will find so they don't click. TGP2 is a very good move, but still it's giving it all away.

I am considering to start a porn-only minipayment-system. User buys 'porn cents' for $5 or so and can then visit galleries etc for some cents each. It exists already, but not purely for porn. The thing is that then we should all co-operate and stop giving it all away. Do you guys believe in such a thing ? What are your opinions ? Would you use the system ? Are you interested in teaming up with me to create one ? We need to start thinking about our job, selling, instead of giving presents to everyone. Let your minds cook and blow away your ideas, thoughts, ...

Sorry, frustration...

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RedShoe · 08-12-2001, 02:51 AM

Mango, It's really too bad that you can't search the board anymore, because the moment this topic drops off the board a few days later someone else starts it, or one just like it.

"we need something better..." type of posts.

I'm not sure if it's still around, but there used to be a "token system". Same idea as the one you mentioned, and I think it's main focus was porn. Like a mini AVS.

Good Luck.

------------------
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</A>
BoneProne Family Member

Mango · 08-12-2001, 03:00 AM

Thanks for that, RedShoe !

Does anyone share my opinion ? Or are we going the right way ? Is there a better system we could use to increase our sales ? Just giving 'sample', censored content and linking to a paysite wherever we can ? Do you think we could change the current situation if we all worked together ? After all, it would mean more money...

------------------
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SonOfRage · 08-12-2001, 03:02 AM

You should call this TGP3 or somthing

SonOfRage · 08-12-2001, 03:03 AM

Then tomorrow Ill create TGP4

Mango · 08-12-2001, 03:09 AM

Lol

I was thinking about the good old days... hard to find any free porn but every hit turned into gold... Shouldn't we go back ?

------------------
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SonOfRage · 08-12-2001, 03:19 AM

Yeah, that would be great.

But it seems that everybody tries to give away a little more than their competition, trying to get the surfer to surf at their site. Before you know it, you've got sites with hundreds of hardcore galleries, each with 20 pics!

Wait...that's the current state of porn.

You do need free porn though, just like you need free television to promote commercials.

12clicks · 08-12-2001, 03:24 AM

"""Why the hell do we give it all away for free ??"""""

because competition made you stupid instead of smart.

RedShoe · 08-12-2001, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SonOfRage:
You do need free porn though, just like you need free television to promote commercials.

Nice observation. Good valid argument.

------------------
<A HREF="http://usexfan.com/ebonypink/index.html" TARGET=_blank>RedShoe is:

</A>
BoneProne Family Member

SonOfRage · 08-12-2001, 04:01 AM

Actually Boneprone said that to me last week when I was up there.

Mango · 08-12-2001, 04:02 AM

That's true, but if 8000 channels offer free TV and channel #4120 is having a commercial break, you'll just take the remote control. >> You won't click on any banners or whatever. You won't accept anything other than the free stuff. There's plenty of it...

------------------
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Rose · 08-12-2001, 08:11 AM

because competition made you stupid instead of smart.
----------------------------
Funny and true Ron

[This message has been edited by Rose (edited 08-12-2001).]

afrocreep · 08-12-2001, 08:21 AM

when can we expect TGP XP to launch?

------------------
Maxxx Orbison: Put your tongue in her mouth, for Christ's sake!
Joe Young: How would Christ benefit from me putting my tongue in someone's mouth?

Kimmykim · 08-12-2001, 10:11 AM

So spend your time thinking about how to market to surfers instead of building more free shit.

Mango · 08-12-2001, 10:56 AM

Well, that's exactly my point. If only one webmaster does it, he will loose sales as the surfers know that free stuff is around everywhere. In the current market, the only way to keep up is by providing free content (gallery's, free memberships, ...).
It's the whole psychology of this industry that should be changed. Be sure that when we'd strongly decrease the amount of free content, we'd quickly earn 10 times more than now... People would sign up much faster than now because they want to see live video etc. Right now, they can find it in a minute.

------------------
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Kimmykim · 08-12-2001, 11:06 AM

Mango,
You've got about as much of a shot at changing the industry's mentality as you do walking on the moon tomorrow.

Anytime there's an industry with such a low threshhold for entry, there are going to be those that flock to it purely because it's something they can do, not something they do well.

Best thing for you to do really is to develop your own systems, your own sources of traffic etc and work for yourself to get a better set of marketing techniques -- don't waste your time worrying about what the rest of them are doing -- you want that newbie surfer who doesn't know it's out there for free, not one that's already been around the block 500 times and knows the ride doesn't cost anything!

So concentrate of finding your target demographic and let everyone else do whatever they are going to do...

Rose · 08-12-2001, 01:32 PM

Anytime there's an industry with such a low threshhold for entry, there are going to be those that flock to it purely because it's something they can do, not something they do well.
----------------------------------------
This is true as well.Just look at some newbie
boards.And see the questions they ask.Some
of them dont know even Basic HTML but they wanna be pornlords.

------------------
Submit your free sites for free traffic
Get Best Content on the Net

[This message has been edited by Rose (edited 08-12-2001).]

Mango · 08-12-2001, 01:51 PM

Rose, look at all those greenies using copied pics... You're damn right in what you say...

------------------
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Rocky · 08-12-2001, 02:41 PM

Good point, Son Of Rage.

And yes i also agree with Kimmy Kim.

The only way to sell is to work hard and to hone your marketing skills.

Things were a bit easier four years ago, but that just meant you could convert while still being lazy. This is not a biz to be in full time if you are not able to work 12 to 18 hours a day.

Building new galleries, making new sites, investigating and utilizing new trends and sponsors and being persistant will always pay off.

It doesn't matter if you have 100k or 5k of traffic. If you are able to target your traffic and entice the surfer to buy, then you will succeed.

This industry is like any other vocation. You don't become a great painter or musician if you only pick up your paintbrush or instrument once a week.

pimplink · 08-12-2001, 10:13 PM

True. Boxing's popularity sank when it switched to a pay per view format. The only question left is can the industry self regulate to the point that it doesn't compete itself to death [which you've described as the current state of porn].

There are initiatives out there... TGP2 [and its varying flavors... sounds like UNIX heheh] being one of them.

Quote:

Originally posted by SonOfRage:
Yeah, that would be great.

But it seems that everybody tries to give away a little more than their competition, trying to get the surfer to surf at their site. Before you know it, you've got sites with hundreds of hardcore galleries, each with 20 pics!

Wait...that's the current state of porn.

You do need free porn though, just like you need free television to promote commercials.

Kimmykim · 08-12-2001, 11:32 PM

"The only question left is can the industry self regulate to the point that it doesn't compete itself to death "
----------------------------

You can't get 10 people in this industry to decide where they all want to go for dinner, self regulation isn't going to happen, ever.

But those that decide to make a go of something will be the ones that benefit if it works

Mango · 08-13-2001, 12:57 AM

Indeed, it's true that we can't just count to three and change the industry. It may be (and is) an utopia that we can just change the industry back to where it used to be. But everyone of us would benefit from it. I remember the times when you just had to build a page with a couple of pics where you blurred out the 'dangerous' zones and you would convert 1 in 200 surfers. It's also true you can still do something like that with the right traffic, but that means that 99% of it is useless and you have to get it at the right places (which is possible). We created this situation ourselves and it's only getting more and more difficult to get the right traffic to the right sites, and it won't get better. I guess everyone is convinced that the free stuff is killing us but we can't stop it because we don't cooperate. If 100 people stopped building galleries etc and started making teaser sites, they would just be out of business because of the 'free' competition. And that's not the best situation. I know I'm dreaming, but it would be so beatiful again when we turned back time...

------------------
http://www.sponsorreport.com - Maximize your Cash using the Smart Method !

pimplink · 08-13-2001, 09:11 AM

You're right, Kim. Self regulation, ala Wertham era for comic books, is probably not gonna happen due to the fact that this industry's segments compete against each other structurally. Example: it is to the TGP owner's interest to list galleries that show hardcore money shots with 20 pics since it brings the users to the tgp page. However, this acts as a disincentive to users to click on "softer" galleries' banners.

Maybe the rise and spread of TGP2 may change the situation or outside political pressure [more softcore to avoid legal issues]. The latter is definitely not a preferred option.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim:
"The only question left is can the industry self regulate to the point that it doesn't compete itself to death "

Kimmykim · 08-13-2001, 09:43 AM

"It may be (and is) an utopia that we can just change the industry back to where it used to be. "
-------------------------

Well let's see it used to be spam city (yes even worse than today), jerking surfers around on free trials that were billed from day one in some cases, nitemares of missing disclosure as to what recurring charges were, auto joining the surfers to multiple sites with one signup...

It wasn't all bad, no, but there were alot of reasons besides surfer stupidity or the fact that everyone was a newbie that caused those days to seem so good. And of course we're all paying for those shenanigans now in the form of the cc's hawking the industry like crazy, along with the FTC and I'm sure a few others.

Think about it like this -- gold is still mined and remains a precious metal to this day, but getting it out of the ground is nothing like the gold rush of the 1800s was

08-12-2001, 02:33 AM	#1
Mango Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 474	Why the hell do we give it all away for free ?? Hi Folks. Just a bit frustrated. Was thinking for the last hours (yeah, it happens), and it really made me pissed. Think of all those galleries you can visit, think of the free video's, free live chats... How are we supposed to earn money this way ?? Everybody is giving it away for free, including me. How stupid can we be ? Our job is to TEASE the surfer, not to saturate him. Am I right to think that we should try to censor our pics, so that we could link through to a sponsor and get the cash ? Admit, whatever you want to see on the net, you'll find it. Those TGP's were our product, but they killed us. Look at the quality of their traffic. Every TGP-surfer knows what they will find so they don't click. TGP2 is a very good move, but still it's giving it all away. I am considering to start a porn-only minipayment-system. User buys 'porn cents' for $5 or so and can then visit galleries etc for some cents each. It exists already, but not purely for porn. The thing is that then we should all co-operate and stop giving it all away. Do you guys believe in such a thing ? What are your opinions ? Would you use the system ? Are you interested in teaming up with me to create one ? We need to start thinking about our job, selling, instead of giving presents to everyone. Let your minds cook and blow away your ideas, thoughts, ... Sorry, frustration... ------------------ http://www.sponsorreport.com - Maximize your Cash using the Smart Method !

08-12-2001, 02:51 AM	#2
RedShoe 赤い靴 call me 202-456-1111 Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The Valley Posts: 14,831	Mango, It's really too bad that you can't search the board anymore, because the moment this topic drops off the board a few days later someone else starts it, or one just like it. "we need something better..." type of posts. I'm not sure if it's still around, but there used to be a "token system". Same idea as the one you mentioned, and I think it's main focus was porn. Like a mini AVS. Good Luck. ------------------ <A HREF="http://usexfan.com/ebonypink/index.html" TARGET=_blank>RedShoe is: </A> BoneProne Family Member

08-12-2001, 03:00 AM	#3
Mango Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 474	Thanks for that, RedShoe ! Does anyone share my opinion ? Or are we going the right way ? Is there a better system we could use to increase our sales ? Just giving 'sample', censored content and linking to a paysite wherever we can ? Do you think we could change the current situation if we all worked together ? After all, it would mean more money... ------------------ http://www.sponsorreport.com - Maximize your Cash using the Smart Method !

08-12-2001, 03:02 AM	#4
SonOfRage Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: You have a cute daughter, mind if I jack? Posts: 632	You should call this TGP3 or somthing

08-12-2001, 03:03 AM	#5
SonOfRage Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: You have a cute daughter, mind if I jack? Posts: 632	Then tomorrow Ill create TGP4

08-12-2001, 03:09 AM	#6
Mango Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 474	Lol I was thinking about the good old days... hard to find any free porn but every hit turned into gold... Shouldn't we go back ? ------------------ http://www.sponsorreport.com - Maximize your Cash using the Smart Method !

08-12-2001, 03:19 AM	#7
SonOfRage Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: You have a cute daughter, mind if I jack? Posts: 632	Yeah, that would be great. But it seems that everybody tries to give away a little more than their competition, trying to get the surfer to surf at their site. Before you know it, you've got sites with hundreds of hardcore galleries, each with 20 pics! Wait...that's the current state of porn. You do need free porn though, just like you need free television to promote commercials.

08-12-2001, 03:24 AM	#8
12clicks Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: God's right hand Posts: 19,789	"""Why the hell do we give it all away for free ??""""" because competition made you stupid instead of smart.

08-12-2001, 04:01 AM	#10
SonOfRage Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: You have a cute daughter, mind if I jack? Posts: 632	Actually Boneprone said that to me last week when I was up there.

08-12-2001, 04:02 AM	#11
Mango Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 474	That's true, but if 8000 channels offer free TV and channel #4120 is having a commercial break, you'll just take the remote control. >> You won't click on any banners or whatever. You won't accept anything other than the free stuff. There's plenty of it... ------------------ http://www.sponsorreport.com - Maximize your Cash using the Smart Method !

08-12-2001, 08:11 AM	#12
Rose Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ON,Canada Posts: 1,456	because competition made you stupid instead of smart. ---------------------------- Funny and true Ron [This message has been edited by Rose (edited 08-12-2001).]

08-12-2001, 08:21 AM	#13
afrocreep Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: ON, Canada Posts: 1,074	when can we expect TGP XP to launch? ------------------ Maxxx Orbison: Put your tongue in her mouth, for Christ's sake! Joe Young: How would Christ benefit from me putting my tongue in someone's mouth?

08-12-2001, 10:11 AM	#14
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	So spend your time thinking about how to market to surfers instead of building more free shit.

08-12-2001, 10:56 AM	#15
Mango Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 474	Well, that's exactly my point. If only one webmaster does it, he will loose sales as the surfers know that free stuff is around everywhere. In the current market, the only way to keep up is by providing free content (gallery's, free memberships, ...). It's the whole psychology of this industry that should be changed. Be sure that when we'd strongly decrease the amount of free content, we'd quickly earn 10 times more than now... People would sign up much faster than now because they want to see live video etc. Right now, they can find it in a minute. ------------------ http://www.sponsorreport.com - Maximize your Cash using the Smart Method !

08-12-2001, 11:06 AM	#16
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Mango, You've got about as much of a shot at changing the industry's mentality as you do walking on the moon tomorrow. Anytime there's an industry with such a low threshhold for entry, there are going to be those that flock to it purely because it's something they can do, not something they do well. Best thing for you to do really is to develop your own systems, your own sources of traffic etc and work for yourself to get a better set of marketing techniques -- don't waste your time worrying about what the rest of them are doing -- you want that newbie surfer who doesn't know it's out there for free, not one that's already been around the block 500 times and knows the ride doesn't cost anything! So concentrate of finding your target demographic and let everyone else do whatever they are going to do...

08-12-2001, 01:32 PM	#17
Rose Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ON,Canada Posts: 1,456	Anytime there's an industry with such a low threshhold for entry, there are going to be those that flock to it purely because it's something they can do, not something they do well. ---------------------------------------- This is true as well.Just look at some newbie boards.And see the questions they ask.Some of them dont know even Basic HTML but they wanna be pornlords. ------------------ Submit your free sites for free traffic Get Best Content on the Net [This message has been edited by Rose (edited 08-12-2001).]

08-12-2001, 01:51 PM	#18
Mango Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 474	Rose, look at all those greenies using copied pics... You're damn right in what you say... ------------------ http://www.sponsorreport.com - Maximize your Cash using the Smart Method !

08-12-2001, 02:41 PM	#19
Rocky Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Living Off The Grid Posts: 3,022	Good point, Son Of Rage. And yes i also agree with Kimmy Kim. The only way to sell is to work hard and to hone your marketing skills. Things were a bit easier four years ago, but that just meant you could convert while still being lazy. This is not a biz to be in full time if you are not able to work 12 to 18 hours a day. Building new galleries, making new sites, investigating and utilizing new trends and sponsors and being persistant will always pay off. It doesn't matter if you have 100k or 5k of traffic. If you are able to target your traffic and entice the surfer to buy, then you will succeed. This industry is like any other vocation. You don't become a great painter or musician if you only pick up your paintbrush or instrument once a week.

08-12-2001, 11:32 PM	#21
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	"The only question left is can the industry self regulate to the point that it doesn't compete itself to death " ---------------------------- You can't get 10 people in this industry to decide where they all want to go for dinner, self regulation isn't going to happen, ever. But those that decide to make a go of something will be the ones that benefit if it works

08-13-2001, 12:57 AM	#22
Mango Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 474	Indeed, it's true that we can't just count to three and change the industry. It may be (and is) an utopia that we can just change the industry back to where it used to be. But everyone of us would benefit from it. I remember the times when you just had to build a page with a couple of pics where you blurred out the 'dangerous' zones and you would convert 1 in 200 surfers. It's also true you can still do something like that with the right traffic, but that means that 99% of it is useless and you have to get it at the right places (which is possible). We created this situation ourselves and it's only getting more and more difficult to get the right traffic to the right sites, and it won't get better. I guess everyone is convinced that the free stuff is killing us but we can't stop it because we don't cooperate. If 100 people stopped building galleries etc and started making teaser sites, they would just be out of business because of the 'free' competition. And that's not the best situation. I know I'm dreaming, but it would be so beatiful again when we turned back time... ------------------ http://www.sponsorreport.com - Maximize your Cash using the Smart Method !

08-13-2001, 09:43 AM	#24
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	"It may be (and is) an utopia that we can just change the industry back to where it used to be. " ------------------------- Well let's see it used to be spam city (yes even worse than today), jerking surfers around on free trials that were billed from day one in some cases, nitemares of missing disclosure as to what recurring charges were, auto joining the surfers to multiple sites with one signup... It wasn't all bad, no, but there were alot of reasons besides surfer stupidity or the fact that everyone was a newbie that caused those days to seem so good. And of course we're all paying for those shenanigans now in the form of the cc's hawking the industry like crazy, along with the FTC and I'm sure a few others. Think about it like this -- gold is still mined and remains a precious metal to this day, but getting it out of the ground is nothing like the gold rush of the 1800s was