Looking for a good debate: FREE SITES vs. PAY SITES - GoFuckYourself.com

will76 · 03-03-2005, 05:33 PM

One debate people often get into is trying to figure out if they should take the pay per signup or if they should do the 50/50 split. Thats kinda what I am debating here but I want to take it one step further.....

Free sites with pay per FREE sign ups vs. Pay Sites and 50/50 splits.

(Someone convince me why it makes sense for people to run their own paysite, please.)

I've owned and opperated monthly membership sites from 99 - 03. Did pretty well, a few of them grossed more then 150K a year. I reluctantly placed sponsors on my sites in 01 and got good results, gradually switched over to a Free site and became an affiliate advertising 100% for other programs. Ive opperated free sites since 01 and exclusively from 03.

Pro's of opperating your own pay site.
- Rebilling
- Rebilling
- Rebilling
- Affiliates
( anything else?)

When I made the switch from membership sites to free sites I noticed the following....

- I was getting 4x as many FREE signups (free signup, w/credit card), then I was getting to my monthly membership sites ($29.95) with the same amount of traffic.

- I was netting a lot more money. The average charge for my paysites where $30 a month, I kept about $25 after processing fees. The industry average for rebilling is 3 months or less. So lets say 3 months, the one signup made $75. However my free sites signups were making me $40+ a sign up and I was getting 4 of them for every 1 pay. So $40 x 4 = $160 generated from free and $75 generated from pay.

- I spent more time advertising and not on my members area. Membership sites require a lot of time if you run them right. Lot's of customer support e-mails, tech questions, billing questions, etc... Also had to update the members area a few times a week. I had to either be the model who supplied the content physically, or i had to shoot it, or i had to go out and buy it. Either way i spent time or money or both to do it. All of this time added up to about 20+ hours a week. When I switched to free sites I had 20 more hours to advertise, which made me even more money.

- bandwidth fees and content cost for members area. Was spending over 2K a month on content just for members area.

So Free sites require less time to opperate, cost a lot less money, and make you a lot more!

So why are there still people out there that opperate their own membership sites. OR people who choose the 50/50 split with another company they are advertising for.

Rebills ?
Hey rebills are great. I had some people who rebilled for 3+ years, got to love making $1,000 off of one signup. But that rarely happend. The average at best was still 3 months.

Some problems with rebills, for both the people who do the 50/50 splits and those who opperate their own sites, you get deducted for charge backs, and charge backs are lot more common on rebilling memberships at 34.95 then they are from FREE Sites LOL. So you lose even more of the money you think you made that month, and all that bandwidth was wasted from the members who chargeback.

Biggest problem with rebills is losing them. I've lost thousands with DMR/WEB900 back in 99 and I am going to lose about 50K+ with ibill now, from rebills from old sites. Great if you get 1000 or more rebills but sucks when you lose your merchant account or the 3rd party processor shuts down. For those of you doing the 50/50 split, the same things apply. Why trust that company with your money long term. What happens if you have 1,000 rebilling members and they close shop or go bankrupt. your screwed. And it happens a lot.

There is affiliates, and thats a plus for those of you who run your own membership sites. But now you are giving up 50% (or more if you want to try to compete with the big boys), so what do you really make per an affilate signup ??? You are lucky to NET what $5 profit after all your expenses from a $30 membership, and now you have to spend more time supporting the affiliate, more time providing materials to them for them to advertise, etc... So unless you have 100's of affiliates that sending in a lot of signups then you are not going to make that much from them anyway. Very Very Very few individual owned monthly membership sites will ever make a lot of money from their affiliates. And then there is still that problem of losing your merchant account or the third party processor going under, and now you just dont lose your money but you lose thousands of dollars of your affiliates money, and you have a lot of pissed off webmasters threatening to kill you, lol.

So, someone explain to me why they wouldnt want to advertise a Free site for a free signup program that pays them $40+ a free signup instead of running their own website or doing a 50/50 split with someone ?

I know there are thousands of you out there doing this, so please explain to me WHY!?!?!

will76 · 03-03-2005, 07:13 PM

Come on guys, I know it makes you think and all, but everyone runs and hides when there is an intelligent discussion ?

I'm surprise there is no stupid comments, nothing ???

andrej_NDC · 03-03-2005, 07:28 PM

I rather wont comment this, would take too long, too many comments I dont agree with.

polish_aristocrat · 03-03-2005, 07:30 PM

bump for your thread, i am too tired to write something constructive now though, lol

edited - i see someone bumped it 2 minutes before, so disregard my post

will76 · 03-03-2005, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

I rather wont comment this, would take too long, too many comments I dont agree with.

Come on an share... thats has to be thousands of you here who advertise a 50/50 deal or run your own pay site... I am curious why ? What am i missing ?

educate me!

Post!

Meloman · 03-03-2005, 07:49 PM

My thoughts:

In todays environment if you know how to get traffic it is more profitable to run free sites advertising affiliate programs.

Pay sites are a pain to manage and operate and with all the new visa regulations/chargeback issues there retention levels and profit margins are at an all time low. The big guys make money on volume plain and simple and the odds of ANYONE new comming into the game and opening up huge successful paysites is slim to none. You simply aren't going to get enough affiliates if you're a new program IMHO. Not to mention the big guys also have YEARS of rebills behind them that make there per sale profits average out to a lot more than a new program.

In the past I've considered opening up paysites but then after carefull consideration I always come to the same conclusion: The amount of time it would take to "manage" a paysite would take a way from time I could spent getting traffic. Not to mention that my initial retention would be low and therefore my average gross per sale wouldn't be great. So bottom line equals less traffic and less money made per join. The only hope of making bank is increasing your volume through affiliates which is a very hard task.

So enought of my ramblings... For ME I find it much more profitable running free site pushing affliate programs.

Webmaster_Logic · 03-03-2005, 07:53 PM

interesting thread here bud!
Here is a bump for you

will76 · 03-03-2005, 08:03 PM

Meloman,

I agree... but do you advertise 50/50 afiliate programs or pay per signup ?

Meloman · 03-03-2005, 08:07 PM

Per signup.

camcutie · 03-03-2005, 09:19 PM

bumpty bump

XOXOXO
*Krystal*

ULVideo · 03-03-2005, 10:17 PM

I think everyone should get out of the paysite business and switch over to free sites.

xenigo · 03-03-2005, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULVideo

I think everyone should get out of the paysite business and switch over to free sites.

Same here. I think the best thing for this industry is for everyone to give everything away for free. What a great thought.

BV · 03-03-2005, 11:36 PM

This is a good subject and I have heard pros and cons of both sides.

revshare should make you more but PPS will make it at a faster rate

so it's like a trade off

more $ over longer time or less $ in a faster time?

venus · 03-03-2005, 11:47 PM

because I make good money at it, thats why I do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

run your own pay site... I am curious why ? What am i missing ?

educate me!

Post!

will76 · 03-04-2005, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by venus

because I make good money at it, thats why I do it.

LOL .. was that a serious reply. If I ate hamburgers and liked them then why try steak ?

Seriously, what if you tried it and you made a lot more money ? you could be missing out on a lot of money.

will76 · 03-04-2005, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BV

This is a good subject and I have heard pros and cons of both sides.

revshare should make you more but PPS will make it at a faster rate

so it's like a trade off

more $ over longer time or less $ in a faster time?

Revshare makes you more if the company keeps em long enough, and if they stay in business. If you get paid $15 a month on a 50/50 split or $45 pps. If you think the company can retain them, on average more then 3 months, then go with the 50/50 and hope they never go out of business, if they do you will lose 3 months worth of income opposed to 1 check max with pps. It's not greed, I have to have it now. It's more that I dont want to trust another ibill or affiliate company.

Also, what would you rather sell a FREE Signup and make $40+ or sell a $29.95 signup to make $40+. Which do you think will be easier and happen more often with your traffic ?

DarkJedi · 03-04-2005, 01:55 AM

Your own pay site:
Pros: you don't have to bust you balls for traffic, affiliates do it for you

Anyway, your threads seem like a clever spam of ClickCash. You're talking how much money you make on Free Signups bla bla bla... we got the idea from your yesterday thread.

For more Free Signup sponsors see sig.

bigdog · 03-04-2005, 04:22 AM

you are just trying to spam clickcash

Mefo · 03-04-2005, 04:29 AM

it's easy when you have an affiliate program you can have 100k webmasters promoting you wich will make you more then when you only run your own freesites....

polish_aristocrat · 03-04-2005, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkJedi

Your own pay site:
Pros: you don't have to bust you balls for traffic, affiliates do it for you

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mefo

it's easy when you have an affiliate program you can have 100k webmasters promoting you wich will make you more then when you only run your own freesites....

But it's not to easy to get affiliates to a new program. Their number is limited and their traffic is limited and recently IMO there are "too many" affiliate programs competing for the same webmasters.

Darrell · 03-04-2005, 05:12 AM

How do you get 100k webmasters to promote your program!!! It's not easy at all to get webmasters to promote another program...even if it is as great as mine

will76 · 03-04-2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkJedi

Your own pay site:
Pros: you don't have to bust you balls for traffic, affiliates do it for you

Anyway, your threads seem like a clever spam of ClickCash. You're talking how much money you make on Free Signups bla bla bla... we got the idea from your yesterday thread.

For more Free Signup sponsors see sig.

No, I never mentioned clickcash once. There are several sites that pay you per free signup. Most cam sites pay you this way (with valid credit card) and there are also personal/dating sites that pay you for a free signup with out credit card, but a lot less money.

It's an honest question... regardless of what I do I am curious why people start up their own pay sites ???

If i wanted to spam what i do I could have made 50 " see sig " or " sig spot" post in the amount of time it took me to start this thread.

devilspost · 03-04-2005, 10:12 AM

Presell spam

PornHero · 03-04-2005, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

One debate people often get into is trying to figure out if they should take the pay per signup or if they should do the 50/50 split. Thats kinda what I am debating here but I want to take it one step further.....

Free sites with pay per FREE sign ups vs. Pay Sites and 50/50 splits.

(Someone convince me why it makes sense for people to run their own paysite, please.)

I've owned and opperated monthly membership sites from 99 - 03. Did pretty well, a few of them grossed more then 150K a year. I reluctantly placed sponsors on my sites in 01 and got good results, gradually switched over to a Free site and became an affiliate advertising 100% for other programs. Ive opperated free sites since 01 and exclusively from 03.

Pro's of opperating your own pay site.
- Rebilling
- Rebilling
- Rebilling
- Affiliates
( anything else?)

When I made the switch from membership sites to free sites I noticed the following....

- I was getting 4x as many FREE signups (free signup, w/credit card), then I was getting to my monthly membership sites ($29.95) with the same amount of traffic.

- I was netting a lot more money. The average charge for my paysites where $30 a month, I kept about $25 after processing fees. The industry average for rebilling is 3 months or less. So lets say 3 months, the one signup made $75. However my free sites signups were making me $40+ a sign up and I was getting 4 of them for every 1 pay. So $40 x 4 = $160 generated from free and $75 generated from pay.

- I spent more time advertising and not on my members area. Membership sites require a lot of time if you run them right. Lot's of customer support e-mails, tech questions, billing questions, etc... Also had to update the members area a few times a week. I had to either be the model who supplied the content physically, or i had to shoot it, or i had to go out and buy it. Either way i spent time or money or both to do it. All of this time added up to about 20+ hours a week. When I switched to free sites I had 20 more hours to advertise, which made me even more money.

- bandwidth fees and content cost for members area. Was spending over 2K a month on content just for members area.

So Free sites require less time to opperate, cost a lot less money, and make you a lot more!

So why are there still people out there that opperate their own membership sites. OR people who choose the 50/50 split with another company they are advertising for.

Rebills ?
Hey rebills are great. I had some people who rebilled for 3+ years, got to love making $1,000 off of one signup. But that rarely happend. The average at best was still 3 months.

Some problems with rebills, for both the people who do the 50/50 splits and those who opperate their own sites, you get deducted for charge backs, and charge backs are lot more common on rebilling memberships at 34.95 then they are from FREE Sites LOL. So you lose even more of the money you think you made that month, and all that bandwidth was wasted from the members who chargeback.

Biggest problem with rebills is losing them. I've lost thousands with DMR/WEB900 back in 99 and I am going to lose about 50K+ with ibill now, from rebills from old sites. Great if you get 1000 or more rebills but sucks when you lose your merchant account or the 3rd party processor shuts down. For those of you doing the 50/50 split, the same things apply. Why trust that company with your money long term. What happens if you have 1,000 rebilling members and they close shop or go bankrupt. your screwed. And it happens a lot.

There is affiliates, and thats a plus for those of you who run your own membership sites. But now you are giving up 50% (or more if you want to try to compete with the big boys), so what do you really make per an affilate signup ??? You are lucky to NET what $5 profit after all your expenses from a $30 membership, and now you have to spend more time supporting the affiliate, more time providing materials to them for them to advertise, etc... So unless you have 100's of affiliates that sending in a lot of signups then you are not going to make that much from them anyway. Very Very Very few individual owned monthly membership sites will ever make a lot of money from their affiliates. And then there is still that problem of losing your merchant account or the third party processor going under, and now you just dont lose your money but you lose thousands of dollars of your affiliates money, and you have a lot of pissed off webmasters threatening to kill you, lol.

So, someone explain to me why they wouldnt want to advertise a Free site for a free signup program that pays them $40+ a free signup instead of running their own website or doing a 50/50 split with someone ?

I know there are thousands of you out there doing this, so please explain to me WHY!?!?!

will76,

your logic makes 100% sense to me.

What I think you are talking about here is how to best LEVERAGE your time.

Do you spend time getting your own surfer traffic or affiliate traffic?

I think it would be easier to get surfer traffic in this day and age than affiliates to promote your program. The # of webmasters out there are FINITE and their time LIMITED. Even if an adultwebmaster likes what he/she sees in your program it takes alot for them to take the time to sign up, add your links to their sites and push traffic to you. You have alot of big companies with deep pockets and new fresh sites/content coming out all the time. Those are the ones that are always at the top of my list.

Surfer traffic for all intents and purposes is INFINITE.
There are millions of people around the world searching for porn everyday. But the key is they are not all searching for the same thing! The niches/types/fetishes of these millions of surfers are virtually UNLIMITED when compared to the number of webmasters trying to serve them. In fact we dont have enough adultwebmasters to serve all the niches yet. lol, i cant beleive i just wrote that but its true.

For example... have you heard of of the porn niche Dogging? Neither did I until this morning. Here's a hint, it doesnt refer to bestiality at all.

Type in "dogging porn" into google (with the quotes), its a joke the little amount of results that come up.

But Dogging is starting to gain a foothold and if it continues I know its just a matter of time (may be a year or two but they're coming) before the first big sponsor like TopBucks or NastyDollars comes out with a Dogging site. And I'll be all over that mofo when they do

Now if you have an affiliate program how are you going to captialize on all this Dogging traffic? If you are a 1 to 3-man sponsor operation please let me know how you'd do it in a profitable, timely, aggressive manner that competes with the big boys.

But if you were concentrating on surfer traffic there are a myriad of ways to start getting dogging traffic almost overnight.

So to get back to my point, your average affiliate program is dealing with a finite amount of adultwebmasters, a finite niche, and competing with some pretty big heavyhitters.

Whereas a webmaster that is dealing with surfer traffic has 100's of millions of potentional surfers, Unlimited niches and a wide assortment of affiliate programs to choose from. And let me tell you, you dont have to worry about competing with the finite amount of adult webmasters, there is plenty of money to be made in surfer traffic if you know what you are doing.

Now the question of where to the send the surfers is a good one. I must admit from my firsthand experience that certain free/with creditcard sponsors that pay you a nice chunk of change for a free signup are extremely profitable. And I have also experienced some great rebills on recurring sales. Either way, I always preach you should always diversify your assets, never have ALL your eggs in one basket, whether thats servers, domains, sponsors, or pay types (pps, recurring).

But will76, I must say you have opened my eyes to a certain opportunity that I am presently not taking advantage of.

I want to talk further witth you on icq and learn a few more things from you.

I gotta split now but I'll be back in a few hours and we can chat on icq.

Sorry for the long ass post, I hope it makes sense to some of you, not everyone will get it, this is Advanced Leverage Management 301.

will76 · 03-04-2005, 12:43 PM

Nice post... always nice to see people contribute to a discussion by adding something intelligent to it. Unlike you fools who say " Spammer " or " I disagree with you" LOL

We need to talk soon....

For the diversification. I use to have a little money coming in from membership sites and the rest was from pay per signup.. then ibill went under, lol so much for that. Good thing I wasn't heavy on the membership sites. IF a pay per signup site shuts down on you, you can switch to a new one in minutes, so not as much of a risk. Diversification is very smart... but take it one step further, do it with offline investments. some people would look at a person who makes all his money in the online adult industry as having " all his eggs in one basket".

I find what makes me the most online and i do it as much as i can. It happens to be pay per signup sites, if the company goes under i will switch to another pps. I take the money i make and diversify it into realestate investments, stuff that it a lot more secure and will make me money every month.

Lord Aga · 03-04-2005, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornHero

But Dogging is starting to gain a foothold and if it continues I know its just a matter of time (may be a year or two but they're coming) before the first big sponsor like TopBucks or NastyDollars comes out with a Dogging site. And I'll be all over that mofo when they do

Now if you have an affiliate program how are you going to captialize on all this Dogging traffic? If you are a 1 to 3-man sponsor operation please let me know how you'd do it in a profitable, timely, aggressive manner that competes with the big boys.

But if you were concentrating on surfer traffic there are a myriad of ways to start getting dogging traffic almost overnight.

Screw Nasty dollars and Topbucks ;) we already have a kickass site that has REAL doggers and dogging.. (Unlike some others on this board who claim to have dogging paysites but use Czech outdoor sex content!)

http://dogging.uncovered.com

http://www.netpondcash.com

PornHero · 03-04-2005, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

Screw Nasty dollars and Topbucks ;) we already have a kickass site that has REAL doggers and dogging.. (Unlike some others on this board who claim to have dogging paysites but use Czech outdoor sex content!)

http://dogging.uncovered.com

http://www.netpondcash.com

Wow. nice site. I guess I was off by my estimate of 1 or 2 years huh? lol

Nice site, I am adding that badboy to my network asap.

Lord Aga · 03-04-2005, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornHero

Wow. nice site. I guess I was off by my estimate of 1 or 2 years huh? lol

Nice site, I am adding that badboy to my network asap.

Cool! so where did you here about dogging?

If you need custom help in promoting us.. hit me up on icq 66634957

PornHero · 03-04-2005, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

Cool! so where did you here about dogging?

If you need custom help in promoting us.. hit me up on icq 66634957

I think I read it at another board and then did some research on it.

I am always looking for sites to shock my surfers with.

you guys should be flying banners on GFY, thats some unique content.

http · 03-04-2005, 05:44 PM

I think those two SHOULD NOT EVEN BE COMPARED

Rather compare tgp w/ freesites w/ avs site

Pay sites are whole another league

Rui · 03-04-2005, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornHero

will76,

your logic makes 100% sense to me.

What I think you are talking about here is how to best LEVERAGE your time.

Do you spend time getting your own surfer traffic or affiliate traffic?

I think it would be easier to get surfer traffic in this day and age than affiliates to promote your program. The # of webmasters out there are FINITE and their time LIMITED. Even if an adultwebmaster likes what he/she sees in your program it takes alot for them to take the time to sign up, add your links to their sites and push traffic to you. You have alot of big companies with deep pockets and new fresh sites/content coming out all the time. Those are the ones that are always at the top of my list.

Surfer traffic for all intents and purposes is INFINITE.
There are millions of people around the world searching for porn everyday. But the key is they are not all searching for the same thing! The niches/types/fetishes of these millions of surfers are virtually UNLIMITED when compared to the number of webmasters trying to serve them. In fact we dont have enough adultwebmasters to serve all the niches yet. lol, i cant beleive i just wrote that but its true.

For example... have you heard of of the porn niche Dogging? Neither did I until this morning. Here's a hint, it doesnt refer to bestiality at all.

Type in "dogging porn" into google (with the quotes), its a joke the little amount of results that come up.

But Dogging is starting to gain a foothold and if it continues I know its just a matter of time (may be a year or two but they're coming) before the first big sponsor like TopBucks or NastyDollars comes out with a Dogging site. And I'll be all over that mofo when they do

Now if you have an affiliate program how are you going to captialize on all this Dogging traffic? If you are a 1 to 3-man sponsor operation please let me know how you'd do it in a profitable, timely, aggressive manner that competes with the big boys.

But if you were concentrating on surfer traffic there are a myriad of ways to start getting dogging traffic almost overnight.

So to get back to my point, your average affiliate program is dealing with a finite amount of adultwebmasters, a finite niche, and competing with some pretty big heavyhitters.

Whereas a webmaster that is dealing with surfer traffic has 100's of millions of potentional surfers, Unlimited niches and a wide assortment of affiliate programs to choose from. And let me tell you, you dont have to worry about competing with the finite amount of adult webmasters, there is plenty of money to be made in surfer traffic if you know what you are doing.

Now the question of where to the send the surfers is a good one. I must admit from my firsthand experience that certain free/with creditcard sponsors that pay you a nice chunk of change for a free signup are extremely profitable. And I have also experienced some great rebills on recurring sales. Either way, I always preach you should always diversify your assets, never have ALL your eggs in one basket, whether thats servers, domains, sponsors, or pay types (pps, recurring).

But will76, I must say you have opened my eyes to a certain opportunity that I am presently not taking advantage of.

I want to talk further witth you on icq and learn a few more things from you.

I gotta split now but I'll be back in a few hours and we can chat on icq.

Sorry for the long ass post, I hope it makes sense to some of you, not everyone will get it, this is Advanced Leverage Management 301.

That my friend is one hell of a post (wether somebody disagrees or not with some of the stuff you said)

03-03-2005, 05:33 PM	#1
will76 Making $$$$ w/ ClickCash Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: USA Posts: 18,037	Looking for a good debate: FREE SITES vs. PAY SITES One debate people often get into is trying to figure out if they should take the pay per signup or if they should do the 50/50 split. Thats kinda what I am debating here but I want to take it one step further..... Free sites with pay per FREE sign ups vs. Pay Sites and 50/50 splits. (Someone convince me why it makes sense for people to run their own paysite, please.) I've owned and opperated monthly membership sites from 99 - 03. Did pretty well, a few of them grossed more then 150K a year. I reluctantly placed sponsors on my sites in 01 and got good results, gradually switched over to a Free site and became an affiliate advertising 100% for other programs. Ive opperated free sites since 01 and exclusively from 03. Pro's of opperating your own pay site. - Rebilling - Rebilling - Rebilling - Affiliates ( anything else?) When I made the switch from membership sites to free sites I noticed the following.... - I was getting 4x as many FREE signups (free signup, w/credit card), then I was getting to my monthly membership sites ($29.95) with the same amount of traffic. - I was netting a lot more money. The average charge for my paysites where $30 a month, I kept about $25 after processing fees. The industry average for rebilling is 3 months or less. So lets say 3 months, the one signup made $75. However my free sites signups were making me $40+ a sign up and I was getting 4 of them for every 1 pay. So $40 x 4 = $160 generated from free and $75 generated from pay. - I spent more time advertising and not on my members area. Membership sites require a lot of time if you run them right. Lot's of customer support e-mails, tech questions, billing questions, etc... Also had to update the members area a few times a week. I had to either be the model who supplied the content physically, or i had to shoot it, or i had to go out and buy it. Either way i spent time or money or both to do it. All of this time added up to about 20+ hours a week. When I switched to free sites I had 20 more hours to advertise, which made me even more money. - bandwidth fees and content cost for members area. Was spending over 2K a month on content just for members area. So Free sites require less time to opperate, cost a lot less money, and make you a lot more! So why are there still people out there that opperate their own membership sites. OR people who choose the 50/50 split with another company they are advertising for. Rebills ? Hey rebills are great. I had some people who rebilled for 3+ years, got to love making $1,000 off of one signup. But that rarely happend. The average at best was still 3 months. Some problems with rebills, for both the people who do the 50/50 splits and those who opperate their own sites, you get deducted for charge backs, and charge backs are lot more common on rebilling memberships at 34.95 then they are from FREE Sites LOL. So you lose even more of the money you think you made that month, and all that bandwidth was wasted from the members who chargeback. Biggest problem with rebills is losing them. I've lost thousands with DMR/WEB900 back in 99 and I am going to lose about 50K+ with ibill now, from rebills from old sites. Great if you get 1000 or more rebills but sucks when you lose your merchant account or the 3rd party processor shuts down. For those of you doing the 50/50 split, the same things apply. Why trust that company with your money long term. What happens if you have 1,000 rebilling members and they close shop or go bankrupt. your screwed. And it happens a lot. There is affiliates, and thats a plus for those of you who run your own membership sites. But now you are giving up 50% (or more if you want to try to compete with the big boys), so what do you really make per an affilate signup ??? You are lucky to NET what $5 profit after all your expenses from a $30 membership, and now you have to spend more time supporting the affiliate, more time providing materials to them for them to advertise, etc... So unless you have 100's of affiliates that sending in a lot of signups then you are not going to make that much from them anyway. Very Very Very few individual owned monthly membership sites will ever make a lot of money from their affiliates. And then there is still that problem of losing your merchant account or the third party processor going under, and now you just dont lose your money but you lose thousands of dollars of your affiliates money, and you have a lot of pissed off webmasters threatening to kill you, lol. So, someone explain to me why they wouldnt want to advertise a Free site for a free signup program that pays them $40+ a free signup instead of running their own website or doing a 50/50 split with someone ? I know there are thousands of you out there doing this, so please explain to me WHY!?!?! __________________ ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com PROGRAM SHIT LIST - DO NOT PROMOTE (click link for gfy thread) FNCash \| Media Revenue

03-03-2005, 07:13 PM	#2
will76 Making $$$$ w/ ClickCash Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: USA Posts: 18,037	Come on guys, I know it makes you think and all, but everyone runs and hides when there is an intelligent discussion ? I'm surprise there is no stupid comments, nothing ??? __________________ ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com PROGRAM SHIT LIST - DO NOT PROMOTE (click link for gfy thread) FNCash \| Media Revenue

03-03-2005, 07:30 PM	#4
polish_aristocrat Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 40,377	bump for your thread, i am too tired to write something constructive now though, lol edited - i see someone bumped it 2 minutes before, so disregard my post __________________ I don't use ICQ anymore. Last edited by polish_aristocrat; 03-03-2005 at 07:31 PM..

03-03-2005, 08:03 PM	#8
will76 Making $$$$ w/ ClickCash Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: USA Posts: 18,037	Meloman, I agree... but do you advertise 50/50 afiliate programs or pay per signup ? __________________ ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com PROGRAM SHIT LIST - DO NOT PROMOTE (click link for gfy thread) FNCash \| Media Revenue

03-03-2005, 09:19 PM	#10
camcutie Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: USA Posts: 817	bumpty bump XOXOXO Krystal __________________ Please Visit My Website CamCutie.com ICQ 203-628-284

03-03-2005, 07:28 PM	#3
andrej_NDC Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 7,760	I rather wont comment this, would take too long, too many comments I dont agree with.

03-03-2005, 07:49 PM	#6
Meloman Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sacramento,CA Posts: 1,540	My thoughts: In todays environment if you know how to get traffic it is more profitable to run free sites advertising affiliate programs. Pay sites are a pain to manage and operate and with all the new visa regulations/chargeback issues there retention levels and profit margins are at an all time low. The big guys make money on volume plain and simple and the odds of ANYONE new comming into the game and opening up huge successful paysites is slim to none. You simply aren't going to get enough affiliates if you're a new program IMHO. Not to mention the big guys also have YEARS of rebills behind them that make there per sale profits average out to a lot more than a new program. In the past I've considered opening up paysites but then after carefull consideration I always come to the same conclusion: The amount of time it would take to "manage" a paysite would take a way from time I could spent getting traffic. Not to mention that my initial retention would be low and therefore my average gross per sale wouldn't be great. So bottom line equals less traffic and less money made per join. The only hope of making bank is increasing your volume through affiliates which is a very hard task. So enought of my ramblings... For ME I find it much more profitable running free site pushing affliate programs.

03-03-2005, 07:53 PM	#7
Webmaster_Logic Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Tampa bay area Posts: 1,886	interesting thread here bud! Here is a bump for you

03-03-2005, 08:07 PM	#9
Meloman Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sacramento,CA Posts: 1,540	Per signup.

03-03-2005, 10:17 PM	#11
ULVideo Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New York Posts: 405	I think everyone should get out of the paysite business and switch over to free sites.

03-03-2005, 11:36 PM	#13
BV wtf Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Bikini State, FL USA Posts: 10,914	This is a good subject and I have heard pros and cons of both sides. revshare should make you more but PPS will make it at a faster rate so it's like a trade off more $ over longer time or less $ in a faster time?

03-04-2005, 01:55 AM	#17
DarkJedi No Refunds Issued. Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: GFY Posts: 28,300	Your own pay site: Pros: you don't have to bust you balls for traffic, affiliates do it for you Anyway, your threads seem like a clever spam of ClickCash. You're talking how much money you make on Free Signups bla bla bla... we got the idea from your yesterday thread. For more Free Signup sponsors see sig.

03-04-2005, 04:22 AM	#18
bigdog Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 6,964	you are just trying to spam clickcash

03-04-2005, 04:29 AM	#19
Mefo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 6,169	it's easy when you have an affiliate program you can have 100k webmasters promoting you wich will make you more then when you only run your own freesites.... __________________

03-04-2005, 05:12 AM	#21
Darrell Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: In bed asleep Posts: 803	How do you get 100k webmasters to promote your program!!! It's not easy at all to get webmasters to promote another program...even if it is as great as mine

03-04-2005, 10:12 AM	#23
devilspost Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tampa yomebe -at- hotmail Posts: 3,980	Presell spam __________________ Brothels and Escorts Worldwide.

03-04-2005, 12:43 PM	#25
will76 Making $$$$ w/ ClickCash Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: USA Posts: 18,037	Nice post... always nice to see people contribute to a discussion by adding something intelligent to it. Unlike you fools who say " Spammer " or " I disagree with you" LOL We need to talk soon.... For the diversification. I use to have a little money coming in from membership sites and the rest was from pay per signup.. then ibill went under, lol so much for that. Good thing I wasn't heavy on the membership sites. IF a pay per signup site shuts down on you, you can switch to a new one in minutes, so not as much of a risk. Diversification is very smart... but take it one step further, do it with offline investments. some people would look at a person who makes all his money in the online adult industry as having " all his eggs in one basket". I find what makes me the most online and i do it as much as i can. It happens to be pay per signup sites, if the company goes under i will switch to another pps. I take the money i make and diversify it into realestate investments, stuff that it a lot more secure and will make me money every month. __________________ ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com PROGRAM SHIT LIST - DO NOT PROMOTE (click link for gfy thread) FNCash \| Media Revenue

03-04-2005, 05:44 PM	#30
http Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,811	I think those two SHOULD NOT EVEN BE COMPARED Rather compare tgp w/ freesites w/ avs site Pay sites are whole another league