GatorB

Records required to be created and maintained under this part
shall be organized alphabetically, or numerically where appropriate, by
the legal name of the performer (by last or family name, then first or
given name), and shall be indexed or cross-referenced to each alias or
other name used and to each title or identifying number of the book,
magazine, film, videotape, digitally- or computer-manipulated image,
digital image, picture, URL, or other matter.

Snake Doctor

That makes perfect sense.

But taking down your pages/images doesn't GUARANTEE that you won't be inspected/prosecuted.

And make no mistake, they WILL MOST DEFINITELY go after people with this.
Remember this all started as part of the Amber Alert law, congress said that the Attorney General had to make a report to congress every year telling them how many 2257 inspections they had done the previous year.

The former AG went back to congress and said he was writing new regs because the internet had made the old regs antiquated and he couldn't do the inspections.

Today they published the final version of the new regs, now the AG has no excuse when he appears before congress, he better do some inspections.

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MrChips

Lenny - when will we know of news of the injunction outcome - any ideas?

Gator - yes - and also US producers will also stop sending content out to Non US webmasters hosting in the US.

As with many a new law/reg introduction - theres an opportunity for us all here - fucked if I can see it though

clickhappy

Thats the scariest thing I've read.
They dont care that actresses could be stalked?

Snake Doctor

The FSC said they were going to file suit within days of the regs being published.
They have 30 days to get an injunction or the rules go into effect and agents will start knocking on doors.

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GatorB

A rubber is not 100% against AIDS doesn't mean I don't wear one.

Well I'm sure they'll start by going to google and typing in PORN and go the the first site at the top

MrChips

Whats the punishment then for a webmaster who gets caught putting stuff up after the deadline for which he or she has no docs?

Is it a fine or worse than that?

I could certainly cope with getting docs for my paltry set up if I needed to depending on the injunction. Any producer not sending me the docs - doesnt get my traffic - thats the end of them and me I suppose.

Whats the sting in the tail though thats what I want to know.

Fined? Site shut down? Jailed? Banned as Director?

Snake Doctor

LOL

I think they're a little more advanced than that.

I'd be willing to bet they already have a list of people whose records they want to inspect. Just because you haven't put your name and address on your site yet doesn't mean they don't know who and where you are.

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GatorB

They're whores why should they care if they live or die? They deserve to burn in hell anyways. Well except if they were pregnant or in a persistant vegitative state. Then they'd could live.

GatorB

Up to 5 years

Snake Doctor

First offense - no more than 5 YEARS in prison

Second offense - no more than 10 YEARS in prison

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cherrylula

a lot of people do not realize this, but these rules are also aimed at the performers who often use fake ssn's and don't pay taxes. Why do you think they want performer names cross referenced? It has to do with porn stars who float around and make a living, and never have a real job or file taxes. I've seen it first hand and dealing with this issue and getting talent to bring in the proper paperwork can be difficult.

There is a huge chunk of revenue lost right there. Its not just the webmasters they are trying to regulate.

latinasojourn

ahhh, good one.

funny boy

GatorB

Yeah like The Hun. Now won't that suck for them? I want to see the look on Gonzales' face when he realizes he can't touch him for 2257 or the banners with chicks sucking off horses either.

Snake Doctor

They said they do, but they care about the kids more.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with them on anything, but I can see why they're doing it the way they're doing it.....you have to look at it from their point of view and not just your own.

If you're a US Attorney, and it's your job to enforce the law and "protect" people and you have to choose between

A) An adult woman who knowingly and willingly gave her information to a porn producer and fucked on film for money

B) An innocent child who could be exploited and used to gratify sick pedo's

Whose side do you choose?

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MrChips

Five years in jail for sticking a few galleries up and not having some docs seems a bit harsh.

How long does a drunk driver get when they kill someone whilst driving under the influence?

GatorB

Oh trust me they'll be going for the max. What would be the point if all someone got was probation? Hell even 6 months of anal rape would be bad let alone 5 years.

Snake Doctor

Are you really that naive? You think the people in charge of this at the DOJ don't know that site owner is in the Netherlands?

You think they need to google "PORN" to find adult sites and check the records?

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Snake Doctor

5 years for being "creative" on your tax return seems harsh too....but that's just the way it is.

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GatorB

How is this protecting children? Poele who make CP are not going to follow 2257 laws. Hell they are already laws making CP illegal and they don't follow those. I doubt that ONE person making CP will stop because these new regs passed. And we all know that if they inspect someone that has records obviously they are in compliance so WTF is the point?

RawAlex

lenny, thankfully the us constituion does not allow the AG to make such a destinction. Each person has the same rights, and it is very hard to infringe on the rights of one person to make another happy. This is one of the most common legal arguements used in these sorts of cases, and often quite successful.

You cannot limit free speech or place someone else at risk to satisfy an interest of the state if this is a better way to do it that does not harm people's rights.

COPA... COPAII.... read the judgements closely.

Alex

MrChips

Yeah - but surely if the hun ever made ONE CENT commission from a US buyer purchasing from a US surfer via a US affiliate link then hes in the market.

Lets say he had run - I dont know - a playboy banner or something.

Then if he made sales to US customers he surely must have the docs for that banner?

wtfent

Thats what my lawyers are for.

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ICQ# 194020367 E-mail: shockingbucks(AT)gmail.com
Promote something different!! Shocking Bucks

GatorB

Ok so they if know then how are they going to protect the children then? How are they going to stop the evil hun from exploiting children?

And knowing this administation no I don't think they know. If they knew ANYTHING about the internet they wouldn't have come up with ideas like these new regs and COPA.

breaker

Maybe they want pornstar identities to be exposed so that noone want to shoot porn anymore and in the long run there will be no new pornstars in the US. Just a thought. It's rightwing religious fanatics that run the country.

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Cash Breaker
Latinas Deliciosas Blonde Loves Black She's Fuckable Fresh Blowjobs
ICQ: 147104800

xxxdesign-net

Any words on US based hosting ? If thats relevant for non-US webmasters..

Snake Doctor

I agree with you, however, I was simply pointing out their point of view.

According to their logic, secondary producers obtaining the model's information is no different than if that model were to apply for a job at Wendy's, who would make copies of her ID's, and several people within that organization would see and have access to her personal information.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that's their argument, and a judge may very well agree with it.

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RawAlex

If your toe is in the US, then you are subject to the rules. Hosting, sponsors, payment processors, anything.

Basically, we pretty much ALL need to be compliant. Non-US based webmasters are much less likely to get a visit, that's all.

Alex

GatorB

Well I believe hosting companies are exempt( I could be wrong and I'm sure Lenny will correct me if I am ), but that doesn't mean they will allow ANYONE to host adult without the proper docs.

directfiesta

Yes. I moved ( in fact mirrored ) my main 60 gigs site to Montreal. Price and service as good as what I have in NJ.

Also biller... Be ready to drop your US biller and move to Euro ( Verotel will be busy...).

Now, 12shits can come and say:

" stupid little boy ... You liberals are clueless ... Go back to your basement and wait for mommy ..."

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I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

xxxdesign-net

What about US based 3rd party cc processors.. Anyone see them refusing to process sites own by non-us webmasters that do not follow 2257..?

breaker

I use CCBillEU and when you setup a new site you still have to have the proper 2257 link and page at the site. I don't know how it'll be after 23rd June. But today it's the same for US and EU paysites. It's probably a good business tactic on their side.

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Cash Breaker
Latinas Deliciosas Blonde Loves Black She's Fuckable Fresh Blowjobs
ICQ: 147104800

directfiesta

No 3rd party cc processors accept non-us based businesses ....

I use my US business at the actual time to process thru Paycom and ( sic...) Ibill .

Already, when your site is reviwed by Visa, they check the 2257 ... I know, they emailed me about that last fall ...
Expect alkl sites to be reviewed.

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I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

MrChips

Ive just noticed - all the graphic banners with porn on have gone from peoples posts - at the bottom of their posts.

Is that because of this?

I can only see a couple now.

RawAlex

There is no exemption for bbses and chat boards... they need 2257 documents for posted images. "would you hit this" threads may be a thing of the past VERY soon.

Alex

Stephen

Amended 2257 Regulations Published in Federal Register

Amended 2257 regulations were published today in the Federal Register, marking the first day of a 30-day period before they become law.

Full Report > http://xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=8861

xxxdesign-net

no but im referring to the new 2257 rules.. Meaning having yourself a copy of everything...

Nate-MM2

Yeah I know it's a bit pre-mature but we needed to wait until the new regulations were official before counsel would even visit the topic. (of course since we were footing the bill we could have went with the proposed regulations but we were advised against that)

We aren't able to say anything yet except that webmasters shouldn't panic and close up shop, we are working hard to accomodate everyone that we can while being strong enough to hold up in any court under scrutiny.

Hopefully will have something to post within 48hours, but then it's back to square one again as we all wait to hear news regarding the court proceedings from the FSC.

directfiesta

WTF ????

Who the hell voted those clowns in ????

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I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

fireorange

The same clowns who are now complaining.

latinasojourn

no you don't understand.

the revised 2257 is only promulgated ostensibly for the "protection of children".

the real purpose is to facilitate obscenity convictions.

no where else in america is a simple clerical error a felonious event. NO WHERE.

not is dealing with the IRS, stock market fraud, and sort of white collar crime, or anything else.

the reason a clerical error is a felonious event in 2257 is so busts can be made.

and once a bust is made on 2257 just watch the trades for an obscenity plea.

this is why the penalties are onerous. IMO there will be less than .01% of actual underage performers found after 10,000 inspections of 2257 records.

and there will be immediately 150 obscenity busts facilitated by people who will take the plea rather than stand in front of a jury with their videos of bound girls forced fucked and drinking piss.

watch it happen.

Mr.Fiction

Softcore nude images do not fall under 2257.

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Don't be lazy, protect free speech: ACLU | Free Speech Coalition | EFF | IMPA

Nate-MM2

Obscenity charges also mean big bucks for the DOJ, especially when they go after primary producers.

Shot one of your models on your boat? We're going to take it.

Shot her in the ensuite shower of your lakefront summer home? We own it now.

Model stripped naked while washing your Ferrari? We're parking the prancing pony in OUR driveway.

jayeff

This is one of those times which highlights just how immature the online porn industry still is. Assuming most of us don't just stick our heads in the sand, there will be thousands of webmasters around the country paying lawyers for their advice in the coming months. At best we will all be paying to hear broadly the same advice and at worst, the vast majority of those lawyers won't have any more idea about the new regulations than we have!

Yes we do need solid legal advice, but before popping for an hour of an attorney's time, consider these realities:

1. In many respects this is brand new legislation, but at least seek out a lawyer who has practical experience of the original 2257 regulations.

2. The document in the Federal Register runs to over a dozen pages. If you are the first or only client and you want a considered opinion, expect to pay for several hours of your lawyer's time for him to study the new regs.

3. A "chat" with a lawyer won't hack it. We need specific advice about what information must appear on what type of documents (especially since some content producers and sponsors are likely to try to convince us to cut corners). We need to know exactly how to maintain our records and how to link between the physical records and our sites. We should understand how to conduct ourselves in the event of a "visit" and any subsequent actions against us. We need to understand the risks: not only the penalties, but the likely cost of a defense in the worst case. Etc. Etc.

In other words, to be able to feel reassured that we have been given useful and comprehensive advice, expect a bill of several thousand dollars. If the idea of us each spending that kind of money to seek advice on the exact same topic isn't ludicrous enough, consider also that very few lawyers in the country have experience in this particular area. We could/should be queuing up to see the same small group of people.

I imagine some of these experts may decide to offer 2257 packages at what may appear to be bargain prices. Given the unlikelihood of enough of us being able to agree how to approach this thing together, this is probably the best we can hope for. However we shall still be collectively spending far more than should be necessary and as customers rather than clients, we will be stuck with accepting the advice in whatever form the lawyer in question deems adequate. The way that issues in the past (for example, precautions against minors entering our sites) have been covered in such packages, is not confidence inspiring.

Big Fish 47

After reading this entire thread my head hurts.

I'm just going to make sure all the images on my server are "softcore". I might even start doing toon stuff.

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latinasojourn

true.

luckily for myself i am mostly mainstream and artsy softcore.

but, there is only one attorney i would choose. and if you've ever heard him speak, and checked his record of success, you would know why:

J. D. Obenberger and Associates

Suite 3700 Three First National Plaza
70 West Madison Street
Chicago, Illinois 60602

Phone 312.558.6420
Fax 312.558.7773
Pager 312.426.6420

DWB

Do your records have to be in English? I may of over looked that but I did not see it anywhere.

If it doesn't have to be in English, boy will I have a surprise for them...

latinasojourn

haha, very true.

i've got releases in 4 different languages. sure hope my inspectors can read them.

it's a big world out there.

and guess what, some countries don't use the western calendar.

lots of stuff congress just does not understand about the world---a VERY myopic, technology-challenged, xenophobic view.

Nightwind

Yea but someone mentioned earlier that if they are part of a hardcore set it might be different.

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DWB

One of my good friends speaks and writes MONG... a SE Asian hill tribe language. We were joking that he should translate all my records to MONG. The kicker is, there are only a few people left on earth who can speak it, let along read and write it. It's a very rare & odd language.

All Thai content (well over 200 girls) has ID's based off the Thai Buddhist calendar. They are 543 years ahead of the western calendar. Top that off with all records written in Mong... who ever is inspecting at my house is going to need back up and some coffee.