2257 question from a Swede - GoFuckYourself.com

The Duck · 05-24-2005, 03:56 AM

2257 regulations, what is this and how does it affect someone not living in the states who is running a TGP or two?

Nate-MM2 · 05-24-2005, 04:10 AM

It doesn't, you may be at a small risk for downtime if you host in the US though.

CumSensei · 05-24-2005, 04:10 AM

Ohh more swedes

Nice.

Hinc · 05-24-2005, 06:38 AM

Hello neighbour...from Danmark

Juicy D. Links · 05-24-2005, 12:57 PM

"Bump for ya"

Postmaster · 05-24-2005, 01:04 PM

And what if your domains are registered in the US, but your sites are hosted in Europe?
Peace,

Selio M

Dalai lama · 05-24-2005, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicy D. Links

"Bump for ya"

Bumping Juicy

wjxxx · 05-24-2005, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postmaster

And what if your domains are registered in the US, but your sites are hosted in Europe?
Peace,

Selio M

I want to know that too

Jeppe · 05-25-2005, 02:10 AM

Bump again - very interesting subject.

Who can us Europeans go to for answers to such questions? Any lawyers specialized in this?

JoeA · 05-25-2005, 06:42 AM

Being in the EU, I've been advised that the wording I use here: www.saharagetsdirty.com/2257.htm covers the subject.

In the UK we cannot publish a models private details due to our data protaction laws, which are the same in Canada and a few other countries.

digi · 05-25-2005, 06:49 AM

Im in Sweden too and Im not sure about what our laws say about it but I plan to find out!

swedguy · 05-25-2005, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeA

Being in the EU, I've been advised that the wording I use here: www.saharagetsdirty.com/2257.htm covers the subject.

In the UK we cannot publish a models private details due to our data protaction laws, which are the same in Canada and a few other countries.

Even with the new proposed regulations?

From what it looks like it has to have your business address, not just an email address.

Boss Traffic Jim · 05-25-2005, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate-MM2

It doesn't, you may be at a small risk for downtime if you host in the US though.

Obviously you have never spoke to a real Lawyer about this or even read the 2257. It has Nothing to do with where your servers are located, it is based on where you live and run your business from.

Jeppe · 05-25-2005, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afrin

Obviously you have never spoke to a real Lawyer about this or even read the 2257. It has Nothing to do with where your servers are located, it is based on where you live and run your business from.

Interesting! Do you have a source for that?

We are discussing the matter with our Danish attorney at the moment, so if I could provide that source for him it would save a lot of effort.

Juicy D. Links · 05-25-2005, 09:25 AM

Bump for the Swedish cause I like Toblerone chocolates

kernelpanic · 05-25-2005, 09:28 AM

Just make sure you're not hosted in the US.

Jeppe · 05-25-2005, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicy D. Links

Bump for the Swedish cause I like Toblerone chocolates

LOL isn't Toblerone from Switzerland!?

After a visit to Google: yes it is

DutchTeenCash · 05-25-2005, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

Even with the new proposed regulations?

From what it looks like it has to have your business address, not just an email address.

an email or po only was forbidden a long time ago already...

JoeA · 05-25-2005, 11:25 AM

My personal details are freely available to anyone who does a whois on any of my domains

This information is true and correct because of ICAAN regulations and they being world wide, whereas 2257 is just a US law as is the DMCA law. There's no point in serving a DMCA on any site not hosted in the States...

ravo · 05-25-2005, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeA

Being in the EU, I've been advised that the wording I use here: www.saharagetsdirty.com/2257.htm covers the subject.

In the UK we cannot publish a models private details due to our data protaction laws, which are the same in Canada and a few other countries.

That's a pretty good idea. You're right, we have similar legislation in Canada (PIPEDA- Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act), that acts to protect private info.

The Duck · 05-25-2005, 03:12 PM

Thank you all for the replys. I guess im fine then, phew.

swedguy · 05-25-2005, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeA

My personal details are freely available to anyone who does a whois on any of my domains

This information is true and correct because of ICAAN regulations and they being world wide, whereas 2257 is just a US law as is the DMCA law. There's no point in serving a DMCA on any site not hosted in the States...

But you are hosted in the US

GatorB · 05-25-2005, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernelpanic

Just make sure you're not hosted in the US.

Listen just because you're are not from the US or don't use US hosting doesn't mean you are still not breaking US law if you are trying to get US citizens to buy your product. No they can't come and get you, but youa re still breaking US law and if they really want to be asses about it they can put your name on a watch list and as soon as you ever hit US shores they can "get you" then.

The regs say that if a non-US person choose to not follow the 22557 laws it is ILLEGAL and FORBIDDEN for them to do busniess with the in US. And if your website can be seen my someone in the US you are in fact doing business in the US.

Nate-MM2 · 05-25-2005, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afrin

Obviously you have never spoke to a real Lawyer about this or even read the 2257. It has Nothing to do with where your servers are located, it is based on where you live and run your business from.

Read the original post...

"2257 regulations, what is this and how does it affect someone not living in the states who is running a TGP or two?"

US laws don't apply to non-US citizens.

Nate-MM2 · 05-25-2005, 04:11 PM

The reason I mentioned that you may be at risk by hosting in the US is that your host is under no legal obligation to provide foreign webmasters with services and can shut you down if leaned on (or even fear of being leaned on) by the DOJ.

Dopy · 05-25-2005, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

Listen just because you're are not from the US or don't use US hosting doesn't mean you are still not breaking US law if you are trying to get US citizens to buy your product. No they can't come and get you, but youa re still breaking US law and if they really want to be asses about it they can put your name on a watch list and as soon as you ever hit US shores they can "get you" then.

The regs say that if a non-US person choose to not follow the 22557 laws it is ILLEGAL and FORBIDDEN for them to do busniess with the in US. And if your website can be seen my someone in the US you are in fact doing business in the US.

Correction - If you make a sale to someone in the US you are doing business. The internet is an open source for viewing.

Your statement suggests that if a US citizen buys a membership to a Dutch web site not compliant with US law hosted and billed in Holland then the owner of the site is breaking the law.

The US might think it can police the world LOL.

I drove my car at 68mph today and broke the US law, will I get a ticket when I next visit the US.

afx · 05-25-2005, 05:07 PM

In some countries you can't post the data of the model... so, even if you have visits from US, the law can't apply if you are working outside US.

w0rstluk · 05-25-2005, 05:11 PM

lol never thought of it like that

Cavello · 05-25-2005, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afx

In some countries you can't post the data of the model... so, even if you have visits from US, the law can't apply if you are working outside US.

the US law does not require you to POST data of the model on the web.

JoeA · 05-25-2005, 05:37 PM

Unfortunately many Americans don't realise there is a whole other free world outside their own borders. These countries have their own laws which have to respected by the residents of them... Therefore as we live outside the US, we have to keep within the laws of the countries we reside in....

We can only publish information that is legal to the laws of our own countries !!!
That is the fact of the matter...

nikad · 05-25-2005, 05:56 PM

I agree, you have to to be compliant with your countries' laws and regulations, but if your product or sorvice crosses the US border then you are doing business with the US, I guess this is a big whole, also it would be interesting to know, for instance if that UK law regarding privacy of information is regarding any person of any origin or you are not supposed to reveal personal info of UK residents/citizens ? Same thing with Canada, etc
Actually I am not sure at this point if european webmasters will see a benefit of these new 2257, since the US market is too big to be missed...
nik

HarrytheNazi · 05-25-2005, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kandah

2257 regulations, what is this and how does it affect someone not living in the states who is running a TGP or two?

..one or two?

JoeA · 05-25-2005, 06:09 PM

The law regards UK residents and as I shoot my content here in the UK as with Sahara's site, I can't publish the models details

Dirty Dane · 05-25-2005, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

The regs say that if a non-US person choose to not follow the 2257 laws it is ILLEGAL and FORBIDDEN for them to do busniess with the in US. And if your website can be seen my someone in the US you are in fact doing business in the US.

blah - don't confuse people. 2257 has nothing to do with the surfers, but where data and transactions are located.

Adult-biz · 05-25-2005, 06:16 PM

Sorry if I am being dense here but just to clarify the European question that many people are asking...

Is the general feeling that regardless of whatever service you offer (be it a thumb TGP site for surfers or a webmaster resource for adult webmasters then am I right in saying that all my domains, hosting, content etc. that I am using for all these programs / sites can be situated on U.S soil but because of where I am (in the UK) then I will not come under the 2257 requirements? (i.e. as people have mentioned here what with the U.S Department of Justice laws cannot be enforced in other countries).

Thanks for any input.

nikad · 05-25-2005, 06:21 PM

I guess the international business part is far more complex than what we can see. I can only say that I think european companies shooting content and sponsors will have trouble selling their product into the Us and being compliant. Also Us webmasters won't probably want to work with them in fear of getting in trouble. Now if you are a european webmaster but use Us sponsors and content I guess it won't violate your countries laws being 2257 compliant.
nik

Dirty Dane · 05-25-2005, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

blah - don't confuse people. 2257 has nothing to do with the surfers, but where data and transactions are located.

and to go further with it... if countries juridical systems were built up like that, then tourist industry would be killed within few weeks.

Dopy · 05-25-2005, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikad

I agree, you have to to be compliant with your countries' laws and regulations, but if your product or sorvice crosses the US border then you are doing business with the US, I guess this is a big whole, also it would be interesting to know, for instance if that UK law regarding privacy of information is regarding any person of any origin or you are not supposed to reveal personal info of UK residents/citizens ? Same thing with Canada, etc
Actually I am not sure at this point if european webmasters will see a benefit of these new 2257, since the US market is too big to be missed...
nik

The data protection act is for UK residents. It does not say that you cannot keep personal data. What it does is strictly control how it can be used distributed and stored.

I appreciate what you say about the US market place being very significant, but what I don?t like are all these armchair lawyers dictating with speculation.

It is true that products and services imported into a country must meet the countries local laws and standards. This is why the transmission of explicit adult material across the internet can be classed as a product making it eligible for scrutiny under the local laws.

The problem starts when Americans buy from a foreign web site that has no clear intention of selling to the US. Control through the billing system would be the only way to limit this. Internet business is special in that it opens up so many grey areas that are often difficult to control.

GatorB · 05-25-2005, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeA

The law regards UK residents and as I shoot my content here in the UK as with Sahara's site, I can't publish the models details

And then don't expect to get Americans to buy your content because they'll need the info. That's what Euro's don't get. No you don't have to comply, but then you are basically prevented by doing business with Americans. I mean unless there are Americns stupid enough to buy content without the proper docs and then put them on the web.

There is already one sponsor I promote that has already stated that any company that doesn't comply will have their cotent removed from their sites and promo materials.

Cavello · 05-25-2005, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeA

The law regards UK residents and as I shoot my content here in the UK as with Sahara's site, I can't publish the models details

You're not required to publish the model's details. You are required to KEEP correct documents, but only IF you conduct business with someone that is within the borders of the US. Although, I have no idea how the DOJ plans to check if you do have the correct documents .

nikad · 05-25-2005, 06:36 PM

I guess it is a question of thinking who you are selling your product to, and stick to the law, in any case it is mostly about organization. I don't think there is a big mistery here or anything to be scared of as some people want to make it look.
nik

JoeA · 05-25-2005, 06:40 PM

I don't sell my content I shoot it exclusively for my own sites here in the UK where I live and work with UK resident models...

To all you US based amateur lawyers... I am not allowed under UK law to publish the models details and that is it.... If a US law agency makes an official request for any paper work I will provide it to them and only to them. I state that very clearly on my 2257 page as I said way above this post...

Dopy · 05-25-2005, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeA

The law regards UK residents and as I shoot my content here in the UK as with Sahara's site, I can't publish the models details

Yes you can, but you will need to consult with a lawyer and raise the necessary documentation for the model. If she does not agree then you are fucked.

JoeA · 05-25-2005, 06:49 PM

Dopy

I'm going to sit here and wait to see what happens to US resident wm's first...

I think they are the ones with more problems than anyone who is not a US resident.. And who it's easier to go after...

Dopy · 05-25-2005, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeA

Dopy

I'm going to sit here and wait to see what happens to US resident wm's first...

I think they are the ones with more problems than anyone who is not a US resident.. And who it's easier to go after...

Good idea

Dirty Dane · 05-25-2005, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dopy

The problem starts when Americans buy from a foreign web site that has no clear intention of selling to the US. Control through the billing system would be the only way to limit this. Internet business is special in that it opens up so many grey areas that are often difficult to control.

To answer that question you have to understand how data transmissions work on the web.
If everything is hosted outside US, including billing, there are no ways that you can say the seller was operating on US market unless he started the data transmission (offering by email or something else).
Im really sure that if a foreign webmaster got arrested on US soil, under those circumstances, the US government would have some serious diplomatic explanations to deal with.

Dopy · 05-25-2005, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

To answer that question you have to understand how data transmissions work on the web.
If everything is hosted outside US, including billing, there are no ways that you can say the seller was operating on US market unless he started the data transmission (offering by email or something else).
Im really sure that if a foreign webmaster got arrested on US soil, under those circumstances, the US government would have some serious diplomatic explanations to deal with.

I think you are right but I would hate to test the water and be a situation where diplomatic intervention was required

This all needs the test of time. I am quite sure most with solid business models will come up smelling of roses one way or another. Cleaning out the dead wood will strike a balance.

Nate-MM2 · 05-25-2005, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sexus

Sorry if I am being dense here but just to clarify the European question that many people are asking...

Is the general feeling that regardless of whatever service you offer (be it a thumb TGP site for surfers or a webmaster resource for adult webmasters then am I right in saying that all my domains, hosting, content etc. that I am using for all these programs / sites can be situated on U.S soil but because of where I am (in the UK) then I will not come under the 2257 requirements? (i.e. as people have mentioned here what with the U.S Department of Justice laws cannot be enforced in other countries).

Thanks for any input.

You can never be safe hosting in the US because they can shutdown your servers if influenced by the DOJ.

However the risk is downtime, not jailtime....

Dirty Dane · 05-25-2005, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate-MM2

You can never be safe hosting in the US because they can shutdown your servers if influenced by the DOJ.

However the risk is downtime, not jailtime....

Well they can also shut down your domains if you are registered in US. Transfer the domains to Malaysia now

05-24-2005, 03:56 AM	#1
The Duck Adult Content Provider Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 18,243	2257 question from a Swede 2257 regulations, what is this and how does it affect someone not living in the states who is running a TGP or two? __________________ Skype Horusmaia ICQ 41555245 Email [email protected]

05-24-2005, 04:10 AM	#3
CumSensei Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,986	Ohh more swedes Nice. __________________ CumSensei say: SEO traffic makes big boom boom.

05-24-2005, 06:38 AM	#4
Hinc Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,577	Hello neighbour...from Danmark __________________ webmaster @ adultlist. com AdultList.com - Directory Listings, Advertisements, Hardlinks Loasex.com - Directory and old school TGP - taking submits A few sales/opportunities: High Quality Guest Posts For Sale Network of Aged sites for sales. Get in touch on the email above for info.

05-24-2005, 01:04 PM	#6
Postmaster Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: EE Posts: 260	And what if your domains are registered in the US, but your sites are hosted in Europe? Peace, Selio M __________________ It's not the quantity of posts that matters, but the quality. Contact me to buy my sig.

05-25-2005, 02:10 AM	#9
Jeppe Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 951	Bump again - very interesting subject. Who can us Europeans go to for answers to such questions? Any lawyers specialized in this? __________________ AdultReviews.com PornReviews.com Submit your site for review here

05-24-2005, 04:10 AM	#2
Nate-MM2 So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, CANADA Posts: 263	It doesn't, you may be at a small risk for downtime if you host in the US though.

05-24-2005, 12:57 PM	#5
Juicy D. Links So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: N.Y. -Long Island -- Posts: 122,992	"Bump for ya"

05-25-2005, 06:42 AM	#10
JoeA Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: London Posts: 568	2257 and EU Being in the EU, I've been advised that the wording I use here: www.saharagetsdirty.com/2257.htm covers the subject. In the UK we cannot publish a models private details due to our data protaction laws, which are the same in Canada and a few other countries. __________________ www.saharagetsdirty.com/ www.ravishingindians.com/ www.anglo-indian-girls.com/

05-25-2005, 06:49 AM	#11
digi Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ON, Canada Posts: 1,314	Im in Sweden too and Im not sure about what our laws say about it but I plan to find out! __________________

05-25-2005, 09:25 AM	#15
Juicy D. Links So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: N.Y. -Long Island -- Posts: 122,992	Bump for the Swedish cause I like Toblerone chocolates

05-25-2005, 09:28 AM	#16
kernelpanic Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,961	Just make sure you're not hosted in the US. __________________ ZangoCash - Turn Your Traffic Into Ca$h. $.40 Per Install - No Tier

05-25-2005, 11:25 AM	#19
JoeA Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: London Posts: 568	And more My personal details are freely available to anyone who does a whois on any of my domains This information is true and correct because of ICAAN regulations and they being world wide, whereas 2257 is just a US law as is the DMCA law. There's no point in serving a DMCA on any site not hosted in the States... __________________ www.saharagetsdirty.com/ www.ravishingindians.com/ www.anglo-indian-girls.com/

05-25-2005, 03:12 PM	#21
The Duck Adult Content Provider Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 18,243	Thank you all for the replys. I guess im fine then, phew. __________________ Skype Horusmaia ICQ 41555245 Email [email protected]

05-25-2005, 04:11 PM	#25
Nate-MM2 So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, CANADA Posts: 263	The reason I mentioned that you may be at risk by hosting in the US is that your host is under no legal obligation to provide foreign webmasters with services and can shut you down if leaned on (or even fear of being leaned on) by the DOJ.

05-25-2005, 05:07 PM	#27
afx Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Montevideo, Uruguay Posts: 375	In some countries you can't post the data of the model... so, even if you have visits from US, the law can't apply if you are working outside US. __________________ [signature] Insert spam here. [/signature]

05-25-2005, 05:11 PM	#28
w0rstluk Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 78	lol never thought of it like that

05-25-2005, 05:37 PM	#30
JoeA Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: London Posts: 568	Unfortunately many Americans don't realise there is a whole other free world outside their own borders. These countries have their own laws which have to respected by the residents of them... Therefore as we live outside the US, we have to keep within the laws of the countries we reside in.... We can only publish information that is legal to the laws of our own countries !!! That is the fact of the matter... __________________ www.saharagetsdirty.com/ www.ravishingindians.com/ www.anglo-indian-girls.com/

05-25-2005, 05:56 PM	#31
nikad Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: BA Posts: 2,579	I agree, you have to to be compliant with your countries' laws and regulations, but if your product or sorvice crosses the US border then you are doing business with the US, I guess this is a big whole, also it would be interesting to know, for instance if that UK law regarding privacy of information is regarding any person of any origin or you are not supposed to reveal personal info of UK residents/citizens ? Same thing with Canada, etc Actually I am not sure at this point if european webmasters will see a benefit of these new 2257, since the US market is too big to be missed... nik __________________ The Filthy Few [email protected]

05-25-2005, 06:09 PM	#33
JoeA Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: London Posts: 568	The law regards UK residents and as I shoot my content here in the UK as with Sahara's site, I can't publish the models details __________________ www.saharagetsdirty.com/ www.ravishingindians.com/ www.anglo-indian-girls.com/

05-25-2005, 06:16 PM	#35
Adult-biz Service Provider Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,139	Sorry if I am being dense here but just to clarify the European question that many people are asking... Is the general feeling that regardless of whatever service you offer (be it a thumb TGP site for surfers or a webmaster resource for adult webmasters then am I right in saying that all my domains, hosting, content etc. that I am using for all these programs / sites can be situated on U.S soil but because of where I am (in the UK) then I will not come under the 2257 requirements? (i.e. as people have mentioned here what with the U.S Department of Justice laws cannot be enforced in other countries). Thanks for any input.

05-25-2005, 06:21 PM	#36
nikad Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: BA Posts: 2,579	2 cents I guess the international business part is far more complex than what we can see. I can only say that I think european companies shooting content and sponsors will have trouble selling their product into the Us and being compliant. Also Us webmasters won't probably want to work with them in fear of getting in trouble. Now if you are a european webmaster but use Us sponsors and content I guess it won't violate your countries laws being 2257 compliant. nik __________________ The Filthy Few [email protected]

05-25-2005, 06:36 PM	#41
nikad Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: BA Posts: 2,579	I agree with you I guess it is a question of thinking who you are selling your product to, and stick to the law, in any case it is mostly about organization. I don't think there is a big mistery here or anything to be scared of as some people want to make it look. nik __________________ The Filthy Few [email protected]

05-25-2005, 06:40 PM	#42
JoeA Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: London Posts: 568	I don't sell my content I shoot it exclusively for my own sites here in the UK where I live and work with UK resident models... To all you US based amateur lawyers... I am not allowed under UK law to publish the models details and that is it.... If a US law agency makes an official request for any paper work I will provide it to them and only to them. I state that very clearly on my 2257 page as I said way above this post... __________________ www.saharagetsdirty.com/ www.ravishingindians.com/ www.anglo-indian-girls.com/

05-25-2005, 06:49 PM	#44
JoeA Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: London Posts: 568	Dopy I'm going to sit here and wait to see what happens to US resident wm's first... I think they are the ones with more problems than anyone who is not a US resident.. And who it's easier to go after... __________________ www.saharagetsdirty.com/ www.ravishingindians.com/ www.anglo-indian-girls.com/