Bush to Congress: Renew Patriot Act - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

taibo · 06-10-2005, 05:07 AM

sig spot secured

ADL Colin · 06-10-2005, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taibo

sig spot secured

Grats on post 1000

ADL Colin · 06-10-2005, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayeff

Although I would hardly call Howard Dean left wing, his remarks certainly qualify as a Goebbels-like tactic. But as nothing more than a point-scoring tactic, those remarks are irrelevant to my statement about "extreme ideas, particularly those of the right wing". My point might have been clearer if I had used the word "policies" in place of "ideas", but in any case the crux was the word "extreme" and I did not claim that extremes were the sole province of the right.

Extreme ideas are much more appealing to a dumbed-down electorate, because they are already in tune with many peoples' prejudices and with the less savory aspects of the human character. In terms of electoral viability there is no left wing in the US, therefore the extreme right is the only extreme about which we need be concerned.

The extreme left-wing are socialists and communists. The extreme right-wing are fascists and totalitarians. They have both had their disproportionate influence if you ask me; both in the US and abroad. I would just bet you view the points-of-view of the extreme left as "normal". Like "Universal health care", for example.

jayeff · 06-10-2005, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almighty Colin

The extreme left-wing are socialists and communists. The extreme right-wing are fascists and totalitarians. They have both had their disproportionate influence if you ask me; both in the US and abroad. I would just bet you view the points-of-view of the extreme left as "normal". Like "Universal health care", for example.

Since South Africa is the only other developed nation which does not have national/universal health care, I am apparently not alone in not considering that to be a left-wing issue. Otherwise your assumptions about my political outlook are as wrong as they are irrelevant.

In the UK I voted Conservative until in common with many others, I felt Margaret Thatcher moved too far away from that party's core values, damaging the country and party in the process. In the US I am more ambivalent, because although I incline towards a lot of traditional Republican ideas, the Republican record in office has hardly been inspiring. At any rate I have zero faith in anything I would regard as left of center, if only because most such ideas are at odds with human nature to the point of being impractical. Truth be told, I'm not even a great supporter of democracy itself...

dopeman · 06-10-2005, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayeff

Don't hold your breath waiting for the American public or US politicians to try to change the White House course. The communist witch-hunts of the 1950's were far more overtly disturbing, yet there was no significant public reaction and just 7 senators spoke out against McCarthy initially. Had McCarthy not made the mistake of taking on the army, his search for communist conspirators likely would have lasted much longer.

In fact, you could easily come to the conclusion that hardly anyone in Washington cared about all the abuses which took place, even after they came to light. Although Joe McCarthy drank himself to death soon afterward, Roy Cohn went on to become a leading attorney, with clients such as Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan and Donald Trump: even the Archdiocese of New York.

quite a sobering perspective, and absolutely spot on. the american public will eat up this 'terror cell' nonsense found in Lodi, California and beg washington to make the patriot act permanent. washington says 'thy will be done'.

did you ever see Citizen Cohn with James Woods?

ADL Colin · 06-10-2005, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayeff

Since South Africa is the only other developed nation which does not have national/universal health care, I am apparently not alone in not considering that to be a left-wing issue.

Right. We are talking about AMERICAN POLITICS. That's what the whole thread references. The government taking over and providing healthcare is predominantly a left-wing issue in the US. One nation's left is another's center, of course.

JD · 06-10-2005, 10:46 AM

I think I'll throw my sig into the mix..............

see sig

split_joel · 06-10-2005, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradM

Good idea. Make their voice heard and get arrested under the partiot act for conspiracy to overthrow the government, perhaps just being a terrorist or even worse guilty of treason.

Good idea. Be heard, then get arrested.

Although I think the patriot act is stupid, i can sit here and say all i want that bush is a nazi fuck and i think him and his admistration is the worst piece's of shit that has ever happend to this country all i want and i wont get arrested for it. why? because im not threating anyone

benc · 06-10-2005, 11:15 AM

I believe only one democrat senator voted against the Patriot Act. More anger should be shown towards them because they stand for nothing other than what is popular at the time.

dopeman · 06-10-2005, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by split_joel

Although I think the patriot act is stupid, i can sit here and say all i want that bush is a nazi fuck and i think him and his admistration is the worst piece's of shit that has ever happend to this country all i want and i wont get arrested for it. why? because im not threating anyone

that could quickly get you on a 'watch list', and this Act gives them them authority to find out everything about you and FAR easier to bug phones and Internet communication without a warrant.

i suggest you go back and study about the McCarthy hearings that they tried to teach us about in high school. people were using this stuff to settle personal grudges. don't like someone? call them a Communist. except today you call them a 'terrorist'.

look at what america was doing all across the globe in under the guise of fighting communism back then. it's happening again, except this time under the guise of the 'war on terra'.

same shit, different decade.

directfiesta · 06-10-2005, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dopeman

that could quickly get you on a 'watch list', and this Act gives them them authority to find out everything about you and FAR easier to bug phones and Internet communication without a warrant.

i suggest you go back and study about the McCarthy hearings that they tried to teach us about in high school. people were using this stuff to settle personal grudges. don't like someone? call them a Communist. except today you call them a 'terrorist'.

look at what america was doing all across the globe in under the guise of fighting communism back then. it's happening again, except this time under the guise of the 'war on terra'.

same shit, different decade.

ADL Colin · 06-10-2005, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dopeman

i suggest you go back and study about the McCarthy hearings that they tried to teach us about in high school. people were using this stuff to settle personal grudges. don't like someone? call them a Communist. except today you call them a 'terrorist'.

Dont forget how it ended. McCarthy discredited and his name became a dirty ism.

ADL Colin · 06-10-2005, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dopeman

look at what america was doing all across the globe in under the guise of fighting communism back then.

What guise? We were fighting commys.

tranza · 06-10-2005, 12:09 PM

I'm not reading all that...

dopeman · 06-10-2005, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almighty Colin

Dont forget how it ended. McCarthy discredited and his name became a dirty ism.

not before plenty of people had their lives completely destroyed / dead / imprisoned. this round is even more frightening.

dopeman · 06-10-2005, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almighty Colin

What guise? We were fighting commys.

yes, and we're in Iraq because of 'terra'.

ADL Colin · 06-10-2005, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dopeman

yes, and we're in Iraq because of 'terra'.

So why do you think the US was in Vietnam or Korea but for the implementation of Kennan's strategy - as understood by Truman - of "containment"?

dopeman · 06-10-2005, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almighty Colin

So why do you think the US was in Vietnam or Korea but for the implementation of Kennan's strategy - as understood by Truman - of "containment"?

yes, it was all about 'commies'. meanwhile, 2257 is just to 'protect the children'. the patriot act is to fight 'terror'. saddam hussein is in prison because of... whatever they say this week.

who cares anymore. this administration has proven that it can do anything it wants - anything. and until they gun for YOU, you won't say a fucking thing.

directfiesta · 06-10-2005, 12:23 PM

You are all " terrarists " ....

If the patriot act would have been in place before 9/11 , it wouldn't have happened. The agencies need to gather information, at any cost. With information, the nation will be safe ...

Quote:

FBI missed chances to stop 9/11: report

The FBI missed several opportunities to uncover vital information regarding the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks that could have led agents to two of the hijackers, a Justice Department report says.

"The way the FBI handled these matters was a significant failure that hindered the FBI's chances of being able to detect and prevent the Sept. 11 attacks," Inspector General Glenn Fine reported.

Two months before the attacks, an FBI agent told his superiors that Osama bin Laden was sending students to the United States to study ways to take down U.S. aircraft, the report said.

The FBI also had hard information that future hijackers Nawaf al Hazmi and Khalid al Mihdhar were in the United States, but it conducted an investigation [b]"without much urgency or priority," the report concluded.

The investigation of Mihdhar was given to a single, inexperienced agent, the report said.

The missed opportunities also related to problems with information sharing between the CIA and FBI.

CIA agents had reviewed incoming cables containing a substantial amount of information about Mihdhar, including that he was travelling and that he had a U.S. visa. But the agency never approved giving the information about Mihdhar to the FBI.

The report also criticized the FBI for not knowing about the presence of Hazmi and Mihdhar, who were living openly in San Diego in 2000.

The two men had rented a room in the home of a long-time FBI informant.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/nation...0.html?ref=rss

Nice....

ADL Colin · 06-10-2005, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dopeman

yes, it was all about 'commies'.

OK. What is your alternative theory to "communism" as to why the US was involved in Korea and Vietnam.

dopeman · 06-10-2005, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almighty Colin

OK. What is your alternative theory to "communism" as to why the US was involved in Korea and Vietnam.

enough with the strawman arguments, and just look at what's happening today. please? while you defend our actions in Vietnam they are expanding their 'surveilance'

Quote:

In nonterrorist criminal investigations, federally approved wiretaps increased 26 percent in a year, to 730 applications, while state judges approved 980 wiretaps, an increase of 13 percent.

Department of Justice spokesman Kevin Madden said the numbers reflect "an increase in the resources geared toward targeting very serious federal and state offenses for which electronic surveillance is often the most, and sometimes the only, effective investigative method."

http://www.november.org/stayinfo/bre.../Wiretaps.html

ADL Colin · 06-10-2005, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dopeman

enough with the strawman arguments, and just look at what's happening today. please? while you defend our actions in Vietnam they are expanding their 'surveilance'

That's not a "straw man" argument at all. That was actually a position that you took. That we could infer something about the present by the past - by what America was "doing all across the globe in under the guise of fighting communism back then". So what is your theory as to the real reason we were in Vietnam and Korea?

For the record, I didn't defend US actions in Vietnam.

dopeman · 06-10-2005, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almighty Colin

That's not a "straw man" argument at all. That was actually a position that you took. That we could infer something about the present by the past - by what America was "doing all across the globe in under the guise of fighting communism back then". So what is your theory as to the real reason we were in Vietnam and Korea?

For the record, I didn't defend US actions in Vietnam.

i didn't say anything about vietnam or korea, and i'm not interested in thread drift. and this is why we're in the situation we're in today. people start a debate about a real threat, and inevitably the debate drifts off to topics that will do nothing to help people become more aware of the 800 pound gorilla sitting in the room with us right now. don't go down that road, because the ease with which Feds can get taps without warrants should send bolts of electricity down the spines of everyone on this board.

cambaby · 06-10-2005, 12:52 PM

Is that fresh vagina I smell?

Paraskass · 06-10-2005, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradM

Brad Mitchell · 06-10-2005, 12:55 PM

Bottom line is to look at the history of civilised countries. Human beings do not tolerate discomfort for longer than it takes to affect them in their living rooms.
I'm sure that the communist witch hunts would have continued unabated; but, when Hollywood was affected, the people reacted. Directors and actors and ancillary players couldn't make movies. The people finally bitched.

You cannot keep a country perpetually on terror alert. Their psyche simply cannot take it for extended periods of time.

Let's face it.

We wanted to drink tea. Freely and in our own time without the tyranny of another government dictating the rules.

Now, we drink tea.

We'll suffer for a few more years, I believe, and then the spoiled Americans will throw it off, just as we've always done when it affects us. At the moment, it doesn't. But, when the minister who preaches on Sunday can't join his favourite site on Monday, there will be a lessening.

Even the Soviet Union had to get a sense of humour after hundreds and hundreds of years. Now, they have crime and the black market runs the country and captialism is taking its fragile hold.

This is not based on fact, just whimsical opinion. No comments necessary.

Downtime · 06-10-2005, 12:56 PM

the Patriot Act should be passed

ADL Colin · 06-10-2005, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dopeman

i'm not interested in thread drift. and this is why we're in the situation we're in today. people start a debate about a real threat, and inevitably the debate drifts off to topics that will do nothing to help people become more aware of the 800 pound gorilla sitting in the room with us right now. don't go down that road, because the ease with which Feds can get taps without warrants should send bolts of electricity down the spines of everyone on this board.

So what you're saying is that you don't have an answer to the communism thing. Well, you are the one who brought it up as a historical reference. No one else did. I'd say making historical comparisons in a thread about politics is completely relevant. But either it is a good reference or a poor one and we both know the answer to that.

"Real threat", "real threat", "real threat". Sounds familiar. Just like, what do you call those guys? Republicans! The time to be afraid of wire taps was 1968.

"Drifting off topic"? You must be new here. WELCOME TO THE INTERNET!

ADL Colin · 06-10-2005, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Mitchell

Bottom line is to look at the history of civilised countries. Human beings do not tolerate discomfort for longer than it takes to affect them in their living rooms.
I'm sure that the communist witch hunts would have continued unabated; but, when Hollywood was affected, the people reacted. Directors and actors and ancillary players couldn't make movies. The people finally bitched.

You cannot keep a country perpetually on terror alert. Their psyche simply cannot take it for extended periods of time.

Let's face it.

We wanted to drink tea. Freely and in our own time without the tyranny of another government dictating the rules.

Now, we drink tea.

We'll suffer for a few more years, I believe, and then the spoiled Americans will throw it off, just as we've always done when it affects us. At the moment, it doesn't. But, when the minister who preaches on Sunday can't join his favourite site on Monday, there will be a lessening.

Even the Soviet Union had to get a sense of humour after hundreds and hundreds of years. Now, they have crime and the black market runs the country and captialism is taking its fragile hold.

This is not based on fact, just whimsical opinion. No comments necessary.

Dude, this is why I like you.

dopeman · 06-10-2005, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Mitchell

Bottom line is to look at the history of civilised countries. Human beings do not tolerate discomfort for longer than it takes to affect them in their living rooms.
I'm sure that the communist witch hunts would have continued unabated; but, when Hollywood was affected, the people reacted. Directors and actors and ancillary players couldn't make movies. The people finally bitched.

You cannot keep a country perpetually on terror alert. Their psyche simply cannot take it for extended periods of time.

Let's face it.

We wanted to drink tea. Freely and in our own time without the tyranny of another government dictating the rules.

Now, we drink tea.

We'll suffer for a few more years, I believe, and then the spoiled Americans will throw it off, just as we've always done when it affects us. At the moment, it doesn't. But, when the minister who preaches on Sunday can't join his favourite site on Monday, there will be a lessening.

Even the Soviet Union had to get a sense of humour after hundreds and hundreds of years. Now, they have crime and the black market runs the country and captialism is taking its fragile hold.

This is not based on fact, just whimsical opinion. No comments necessary.

you're right, but before we get to the pendulum swining the other way, plenty of people will be prosecuted.

dopeman · 06-10-2005, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almighty Colin

The time to be afraid of wire taps was 1968.

you realize that almost everyone's business on this board is transacted, managed and operated on the phone lines, yes?

ADL Colin · 06-10-2005, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dopeman

you realize that almost everyone's business on this board is transacted, managed and operated on the phone lines, yes?

I'm referring to the law passed in 1968.

You should have read all the complaining on GFY back then ;-)

dopeman · 06-10-2005, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almighty Colin

I'm referring to the law passed in 1968.

You should have read all the complaining on GFY back then ;-)

yes, those punchcards were a bitch to deal with. 30,000 punchcards just to post one troll.

i see your point, but i do wish more americans weren't so guided by 'fear' that is pumped into their brains through every orifice 24/7 and realize that the united states stands for freedom - not oppression. we haven't always been at war with Oceana.

jayeff · 06-10-2005, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almighty Colin

Right. We are talking about AMERICAN POLITICS. That's what the whole thread references. The government taking over and providing healthcare is predominantly a left-wing issue in the US.

You are being more than usually obtuse today. You provided the definition of the political spectrum: "The extreme left-wing are socialists and communists. The extreme right-wing are fascists and totalitarians." And you stated that universal healthcare belonged to the extreme left: "I would just bet you view the points-of-view of the extreme left as "normal". Like "Universal health care", for example."

I seriously doubt that many Americans who favor universal healthcare would appreciate being branded as socialists or communists and I didn't appreciate you jumping to conclusions about my overall political point of view based on a guess (or a memory of previous posts here) about one specific issue.

None of which in any case was remotely relevant to my original observation that a dumbed-down electorate is most easily sold on simple concepts. As Herman Goering said during a conversation while imprisoned at Nuremberg: "...it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

06-10-2005, 11:15 AM	#59
benc Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 788	I believe only one democrat senator voted against the Patriot Act. More anger should be shown towards them because they stand for nothing other than what is popular at the time. __________________ Numerous Adult and Non Adult Domains For Sale Such as SlutVideos.com, FitWomen.com Listed on Sedo or can do direct sale

06-10-2005, 12:09 PM	#64
tranza ICQ: 197-556-237 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: BRASIL !!! Posts: 57,559	I'm not reading all that... __________________ I'm just a newbie.

06-10-2005, 12:55 PM	#76
Brad Mitchell Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southfield, MI Posts: 9,811	Bottom line is to look at the history of civilised countries. Human beings do not tolerate discomfort for longer than it takes to affect them in their living rooms. I'm sure that the communist witch hunts would have continued unabated; but, when Hollywood was affected, the people reacted. Directors and actors and ancillary players couldn't make movies. The people finally bitched. You cannot keep a country perpetually on terror alert. Their psyche simply cannot take it for extended periods of time. Let's face it. We wanted to drink tea. Freely and in our own time without the tyranny of another government dictating the rules. Now, we drink tea. We'll suffer for a few more years, I believe, and then the spoiled Americans will throw it off, just as we've always done when it affects us. At the moment, it doesn't. But, when the minister who preaches on Sunday can't join his favourite site on Monday, there will be a lessening. Even the Soviet Union had to get a sense of humour after hundreds and hundreds of years. Now, they have crime and the black market runs the country and captialism is taking its fragile hold. This is not based on fact, just whimsical opinion. No comments necessary. __________________ President at MojoHost \| brad at mojohost dot com \| Skype MojoHostBrad 71 industry awards for hosting and professional excellence since 1999

06-10-2005, 12:56 PM	#77
Downtime Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Location: America. Posts: 7,320	the Patriot Act should be passed __________________ #27024067

06-10-2005, 05:07 AM	#51
taibo Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,720	sig spot secured

06-10-2005, 10:46 AM	#57
JD Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 22,651	I think I'll throw my sig into the mix.............. see sig

06-10-2005, 12:52 PM	#74
cambaby So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: CR Posts: 3,141	Is that fresh vagina I smell?