who here has downtime when their server backs up? - GoFuckYourself.com

georgeyw · 06-08-2006, 06:14 AM

Lately i've started getting backups done on my server and every single day when the dbs are being backed up i get about 10+mins of down time.

This REALLY shits me! Who suffers through this?

Any server people able to tell me if this is necessary and if not what I should be asking to be done?

ne0 · 06-08-2006, 06:25 AM

they just have to set the nice level for the backup proccess, usually backup takes lots of resources, and the server hungs the other process giving priority to it, ask them to lower the nice level for this, or get a webhost that can do it to you

(check my sig if you do want a new one

)

babsy · 06-08-2006, 06:43 AM

Yeah, that shit isn't right. They're probably bringing the DB down in order to capture it in a consistent state, which is an important thing, but there are many options for hot backups of databases. Any qualified (read as: halfway decent) technician should be able to sort something out for you. Word of warning though, many of the packages that assist in hot backups of DBs you'll have to pay for. If you want to do it on the cheap, you could try all sorts of tricks, replicate MySQL servers and only bring the secondary down to backup, that sort of thing.

aflex · 06-08-2006, 06:46 AM

veritas netbackup =]

MickeyG · 06-08-2006, 07:07 AM

if its a mysql db just have them use mysqldump to export everything to rotated text files rather then locking the db.

georgeyw · 06-08-2006, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SplitNeo

they just have to set the nice level for the backup proccess, usually backup takes lots of resources, and the server hungs the other process giving priority to it, ask them to lower the nice level for this, or get a webhost that can do it to you

(check my sig if you do want a new one

)

heh thanks - but i'm happy with my current host

thanks for the replies everyone

duckduckgoose · 06-08-2006, 07:24 AM

This is one of those issues that people "never care about until they need it". A large number of database driven websites have databases almost excusively read-only (eg writes only happen when the admins update content, and 99% of the transactions are reads / SELECTs by viewers). In those cases, you can probably safely schedule backups on simpler databases (MySQL) and keep the database online without worry (scheduling backups away from when admin INSERTs etc are being done).

For MySQL databases, there are some other proven approaches. Replication was mentioned above, but the biggest advantage of having a "slave" database server with an exact copy of the "master", is that you can drop the slave offline whenever you like, and make backups from it (avoiding the integrity problems).

Great article on this approach here !

PostgreSQL has a few approaches under continuing development, but some with rough edges still.

georgeyw · 06-08-2006, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckduckgoose

This is one of those issues that people "never care about until they need it". A large number of database driven websites have databases almost excusively read-only (eg writes only happen when the admins update content, and 99% of the transactions are reads / SELECTs by viewers). In those cases, you can probably safely schedule backups on simpler databases (MySQL) and keep the database online without worry (scheduling backups away from when admin INSERTs etc are being done).

For MySQL databases, there are some other proven approaches. Replication was mentioned above, but the biggest advantage of having a "slave" database server with an exact copy of the "master", is that you can drop the slave offline whenever you like, and make backups from it (avoiding the integrity problems).

Great article on this approach here !

PostgreSQL has a few approaches under continuing development, but some with rough edges still.

Now that's making alot more sense thanks for the advice and link.

On a side note, of course I wouldn't care about this until I have to deal with it

duckduckgoose · 06-08-2006, 07:58 AM

My point was just that some of the larger and older commercial database products include considerations like this straight out of the box (hot backups, clusters/grids, other more exotic features). A lot of features people think they don't need when they start a project (and thus lead to the ingredients they choose for their IT recipes) show up as "damn, now what" features later.

It will always come down to using the right tool for the job. Oracle is great, but overkill for many small projects.

ne0 · 06-08-2006, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeyw

Now that's making alot more sense thanks for the advice and link.

On a side note, of course I wouldn't care about this until I have to deal with it

in fact you dont need to care about this, if they offer you backups they have to make it run smooth

ByteFortressAaron · 06-13-2006, 04:13 PM

Some programs will actually shut down databases to run the backup. This could only take a few minutes, but you may want to ask the people running the backup what could be the cause.

I know we have modules for backing up DB's with our software. But there are a great many software that companies will use to run thier backups that may not have that feature.

I hope you don't run into this problem too often.

Cheers!

prodiac · 06-13-2006, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeyw

Lately i've started getting backups done on my server and every single day when the dbs are being backed up i get about 10+mins of down time.

This REALLY shits me! Who suffers through this?

Any server people able to tell me if this is necessary and if not what I should be asking to be done?

Some backup systems do this either to capture the databases while they are shut down, or to repair any problems with myisamchk. Are you using a control panel on your server?

I've recently gone through the backup script that comes with DirectAdmin because it does this. It shuts down MySQL in order to scan/repair the DB's, then it starts it back up. After it starts it back up, then it generates dumps. So you can actually modify the mysql module portion of this backup script, and disable the part where it shuts down mysql and runs this check/repair. But if there are any errors in the db it may fail to dump properly.

WireNine · 09-26-2006, 03:48 AM

What control panel does your server have?

Quote:

Some programs will actually shut down databases to run the backup. This could only take a few minutes, but you may want to ask the people running the backup what could be the cause.

I agree.

06-08-2006, 06:14 AM	#1
georgeyw 58008 53773 Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 9,864	who here has downtime when their server backs up? Lately i've started getting backups done on my server and every single day when the dbs are being backed up i get about 10+mins of down time. This REALLY shits me! Who suffers through this? Any server people able to tell me if this is necessary and if not what I should be asking to be done? __________________ TripleXPrint on Megan Fox "I would STILL suck her pussy until her face caved in. And then blow her up and do it again!"

06-08-2006, 06:25 AM	#2
ne0 Confirmed User Join Date: May 2006 Location: brazil Posts: 781	they just have to set the nice level for the backup proccess, usually backup takes lots of resources, and the server hungs the other process giving priority to it, ask them to lower the nice level for this, or get a webhost that can do it to you (check my sig if you do want a new one ) __________________ hai2u

06-08-2006, 06:43 AM	#3
babsy Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cashapartment.com Posts: 282	Yeah, that shit isn't right. They're probably bringing the DB down in order to capture it in a consistent state, which is an important thing, but there are many options for hot backups of databases. Any qualified (read as: halfway decent) technician should be able to sort something out for you. Word of warning though, many of the packages that assist in hot backups of DBs you'll have to pay for. If you want to do it on the cheap, you could try all sorts of tricks, replicate MySQL servers and only bring the secondary down to backup, that sort of thing. __________________ CASH APARTMENT V2 IS HERE! NATS POWERED, 60-70% ON ALL REBILLS, FREE CONTENT, MGPS, FHGS, RETAINING MEMBERS NETWORK! A SIMPLE NO B.S PROGRAM - ICQ 239 806 698

06-08-2006, 06:46 AM	#4
aflex Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New Jersey - adaptweb at gmail.com Posts: 3,127	veritas netbackup =] __________________ self made mothafucka. buying premium domains & developed sites with revenue/traffic -> adaptweb at gmail.com

06-08-2006, 07:24 AM	#7
duckduckgoose Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Pole Posts: 82	This is one of those issues that people "never care about until they need it". A large number of database driven websites have databases almost excusively read-only (eg writes only happen when the admins update content, and 99% of the transactions are reads / SELECTs by viewers). In those cases, you can probably safely schedule backups on simpler databases (MySQL) and keep the database online without worry (scheduling backups away from when admin INSERTs etc are being done). For MySQL databases, there are some other proven approaches. Replication was mentioned above, but the biggest advantage of having a "slave" database server with an exact copy of the "master", is that you can drop the slave offline whenever you like, and make backups from it (avoiding the integrity problems). Great article on this approach here ! PostgreSQL has a few approaches under continuing development, but some with rough edges still. __________________ rRhino.com ...social networking for book fans...

06-08-2006, 07:07 AM	#5
MickeyG Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 4,134	if its a mysql db just have them use mysqldump to export everything to rotated text files rather then locking the db.

06-08-2006, 07:58 AM	#9
duckduckgoose Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Pole Posts: 82	My point was just that some of the larger and older commercial database products include considerations like this straight out of the box (hot backups, clusters/grids, other more exotic features). A lot of features people think they don't need when they start a project (and thus lead to the ingredients they choose for their IT recipes) show up as "damn, now what" features later. It will always come down to using the right tool for the job. Oracle is great, but overkill for many small projects. __________________ rRhino.com ...social networking for book fans...

06-13-2006, 04:13 PM	#11
ByteFortressAaron Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 85	Some programs will actually shut down databases to run the backup. This could only take a few minutes, but you may want to ask the people running the backup what could be the cause. I know we have modules for backing up DB's with our software. But there are a great many software that companies will use to run thier backups that may not have that feature. I hope you don't run into this problem too often. Cheers! __________________ Aaron Lawvere, ByteFortress Technologies - http://www.bytefortress.net Enterprise Grade Offsite Backup Solutions Disaster Recovery Solutions as low as $.25 per GB