Another Electric Car Post

[BFT3K]

A few interesting clips regarding the electric car.

I can post lots more, but you can easily find them if you look for them.

This is not made up stuff. It is just sad...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=N7Mpe7XfODk

https://youtube.com/watch?v=1J5f9x_RfHI

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Px52p-T_MqE

Any ideas how we can change the world would be appreciated.

[BFT3K]

I didn't expect too many comments regarding this topic, but none at all?... Very surprising...

[Chio]

I am interested. I have a whole network of blogs dedicated to green living with a slant toward automobiles and oil independence.

I'm probably going to order a tesla at some point. EV's have come a long way and they'll only get better as batteries do.

Check out phoenix car's suv.

Watching the videos now.

[Chio]

Oh. Who killed the electric car. I've seen it. Now gm realizes the mistake it made and announced the Volt. It'll be interesting to see if it ever comes out or faces a similar fate as the EV1.

[Tom_PM]

I'd like to know why GM put out an all gasoline engine that got 32 city/40 highway in 1996, but look around today and you can't find one. Even some hybrids dont get that. Wouldnt it make economic sense for them to retool and build it again? Could they make more money by not building it? Whats the incentive to the automakers to make fuel efficient engines anyway?

[BFT3K]

I didn't expect too many comments regarding this topic, but none at all?... Very surprising...

[BFT3K]

That was weird. I attempted to post my last comment before anyone replied to the thread. Now it doesn't make any sense, as a few comments have come in.

Anyway, I'm happy a few people are bothering to check this one out.

[Chio]

A lot of the profits to car makers come in the form of service. With electric motors there are very few parts to service so they lose a lot of money there.

Interesting to note about the battery development. Apparently the guy that developed the battery technology for the ev1 was bought out by gm who then sold the rights to the technology to an oil company

[Michaelious]

Not bad, would love an electric car.

[Linguist]

I watched the video and to be honest I don't buy it. If electric was so much better, countries like Japan would be running 100% electric by now and electric cars would be available for import worldwide. You'd also see a lot of electric cars in Canada, Europe, etc. Especially in Europe since gas there is a lot more expensive than in the US.

[Ravage]

One of the issues impacting the full electric cars is the limited range they had when first introduced... also the fact that the Big 3 bought many of the plans of the first elec. cars just to shelve them.

One of the main factors of not having full elec. cars in mass production is the limitation of range and power. Many do not want a car you need to plug-in every 100miles or so. This is the reason why Hybrids are created now. When the battery runs low, the gas engine kicks in full-time. It also led way to the 'regenerative braking' by using the brake friction to help charge the battery some.

What you will see in the future, is more vehicles coming out with renewable Diesel options and ethanol hybrids like GM is pumping out now with their FlexFuel SUV's.

The future of the automobile is renewable resources, not electric. Big Oil will make damn sure of that.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Linguist

I watched the video and to be honest I don't buy it. If electric was so much better, countries like Japan would be running 100% electric by now and electric cars would be available for import worldwide. You'd also see a lot of electric cars in Canada, Europe, etc. Especially in Europe since gas there is a lot more expensive than in the US.

So you are assuming Big Oil only has influence over the US market then? For some reason Toyota's version of the electric car was pulled off the road at just around the same time as the EV1.

In addition, I think it was the Honda Civic (maybe the Accord?) that got around 57 mpg around 10 years ago, and now get many miles LESS per gallon. It this technology or repression?

Another interesting thread regarding this subject can be found here...

http://bgafd.co.uk/forum/read.php?f=3&i=125482&t=125482

[Basic_man]

Just get the DVD.. that's a very interresting movie!!

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Platinum ChrisM

The future of the automobile is renewable resources, not electric. Big Oil will make damn sure of that.

How do we stop them from repressing cleaner energy sources? Why must we be victims in this? Is there no way to fight back?

Both US political parties take money from Big Oil, so neither side really seems to be able to rise above the greed.

Big Oil sucks it! Everyone knows this, but we all just keep bending over.

Gas is now over $3 per gallon - our water and air just gets more and more polluted - we are always in some sort of trouble in the middle east - 100% based upon oil, regardless of what they want us to believe.

Even if you believe we are fighting a war on terror, then what funds the terrorists, milk money?

Soloar panels can create electricity - electricity can power batteries - batteries can power the electric car. Very basic, very clean, very logical!

Tesla's first car achieves 200+ miles on a single charge, and most people don't even drive more than 30 miles in a given day anyway....

http://www.TeslaMotors.com

Will the government in the US back Tesla? Of course not, because the powers that be will not stand for it!

Their greed lines the pockets of very few, but they are VERY powerful - Bush, Cheney, the Saudis...

Our world is in turmoil, our oceans are being polluted, our children may not have clean air soon, and why?... so the fuckers that set up this ass backwards system for their own greed, can shove the status quo right down our throats!

Unfortunately too many people (especially in the US) believe gas guzzling monster vehicles are part of some sort of "freedom" here, when in fact, just the opposite is true. How many people really need an SUV? How often do you see single people in SUVs, who are not hauling anything anywhere?

The government offered businesses up to $100,000 in tax benefits if you purchased a Hummer when they first came out. On the flipside, they offered $4k for EV1 purchases just prior to the switch.

Are we blind? Will we allow all of this to lead to WWIII because Big Oil can't be stopped? When are we going to finally wake the fuck up!?

[Tom_PM]

I believe if you adjust for inflation, gasoline prices in the US are not at "historically high price" right now.. News outlets dont bother to do the math really.

Actually, milk money might not be far off. Check the price of milk over the same time period Probably higher markup right now than gasoline.

Doesnt change the basic argument that they have us by the balls.. but still.

I think you can still get a tax benefit if you buy a "truck" (hummers, huge SUV's,anything classified as "truck") and use it in your normal business (maybe depositing a check once a month). It's retarded.

[BFT3K]

Actions are needed. This site offers some options...

http://www.pluginamerica.com/action.shtml

The future should be decided by the common people... not by big oil!

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

I'd like to know why GM put out an all gasoline engine that got 32 city/40 highway in 1996, but look around today and you can't find one. Even some hybrids dont get that. Wouldnt it make economic sense for them to retool and build it again? Could they make more money by not building it? Whats the incentive to the automakers to make fuel efficient engines anyway?

Of course they make more by NOT building it. The oil companies pay them to NOT build them.

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Actions are needed. This site offers some options...

http://www.pluginamerica.com/action.shtml

The future should be decided by the common people... not by big oil!

The common people dont have enough money to make those decisions, and you can not get them to ban together so that they do have enough money.

[Dollarmansteve]

oil is the cheapest and most readily available energy source on the planet. To NOT build things powered by it would be irrational.

[pigbait75]

I'd just like to know how everyone who posted in this thread wanting a cleaner running car gets to work. Reallly people they have us by the balls and we did it to ourselves so get over it soon north korea will finish it's testing and we'll all be glowing in the dark anyway. consume, consume, consume, muahahahahahahaha

[Robbie]

I have to wonder something...My electric bill is already $600 a month. And I'm using all flourescent bulbs and right now it's 90 + degrees and I do NOT have the AC on, I have the windows open.
So if I have this marvelous electric car...don't I have to plug that bitch in to re-charge it? And if I do, isn't that STILL gonna consume energy by using electricity?
I'm just asking. Because I'm guessing my electric bill would be a couple of grand a month then. And also, if everybody was plugging their cars in....wouldn't that pretty much shut the U.S. down since we already see rolling blackouts and brownouts in certain areas during the summer from too much electricity being used for the grid to handle?
Also...how is my electricity for my home generated? Hell, I don't know. But I'm guessing it can't be much "greener" than my car running a tank of gas.
Those are some of the things that pop up in my head when I hear about electric cars.
That being said, I drove a hybrid and it was pretty cool. It used the energy of the braking system to recharge it's own battery and as long as you went under 30 mph you were like a golf cart running on electricity.
But then again, I used to have a 1970 VW Beatle that got around 40 mpg. And my 1973 MG gets 30 MPG. Both better than the hybrid.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

oil is the cheapest and most readily available energy source on the planet. To NOT build things powered by it would be irrational.

Actually sunlight is cheaper and more plentifull, but as no one wants to rock the boat, I guess we should just continue to allow big oil to keep fucking us up the ass.

[Tom_PM]

Yeah thats a problem with 100% electric cars; what fuels their electric plant? Fossil fuels.

I get to work by rolling out of bed :D In the past 5 years or so I've only filled up my car with gas twice, lol. I use all compact flourescent bulbs as well, and dont run the AC until it's un-GODLY hot and humid.

When I get a house of my own, I want to put solar on it. Government gives grants to do it, (substantial depending on state), and if you generate surplus the utility company has to purchase it from you in the form of credit off of your usage bill.

Cars are only a small part of the picture.. Kind of like a diet. Theres no wonderful magic pill solution, it's a choice of lifestyle really.

[Dollarmansteve]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Actually sunlight is cheaper and more plentifull, but as no one wants to rock the boat, I guess we should just continue to allow big oil to keep fucking us up the ass.

No such thing as a free lunch.

So there is more solar power available at a cheaper price per energy unit than oil? If you can prove that, you'll be the richest man on earth.

What you meant to say is that sunlight has, theoretically, the most unused potential of any energy source. But it is self-evident that it is still too expensive and too inefficient a process to convert into energy that is readily availble to meet the demand of an economy like north america's.

Go drive a solar powered car and tell me what you think.

[Dollarmansteve]

This electric car debate always pisses me off. Electric cars are cars that feed of the teet of the hydrocarbon economy.

What's hilarious is that the real solution to the problem is LESS ENERGY USE. The carbon cycle is a closed loop - you will always get less out of it than what you put it at an ever decreasing percentage.

The carbon cycle is mimicked in any energy cycle. You put energy in and eventually that energy is reduced (eg changes form) to zero.

For example, you take X amount of oil out of the groud (this uses an amount of energy that is less than the energy of X amount of oil). This oil is then turned into usable energy over and over.. burned in a car as gasoline, burned in a power plant, burned in a home furnace.. heat energy is converted to other kinds of energy.. mechanical energy (rotational, etc).. at less than 100% efficiency along the way.

Eventually the long tail of the energy of X amount of oil reaches zero and there is no usable energy left from X amount of oil. What you have to do is put more oil (or any energy) into the system.

It doesn't matter what the energy source is, whether it's sunlight or oil or natural gas or tidal power, etc, etc, etc. All these closed energy systems work on the same laws of physics.

The only variable that we have control over is the total amount of energy we use.

An electric car is the same as a gasoline car in that it CONSUMES ENERGY. The actual fix to our "hydrocarbon addiction" (which is actually "energy addiction" .. the source doesn't matter) is eliminating waste from the energy cycles and simply consuming less.

For example, someone who drives an electric car still puts a strain on the hydrocarbon energy loop every time they drive the car. The manufacturing of the car used hydrocarbons or other forms of energy as input.

The real answer is not to replace gas cars with electric cars, it's to ELIMINATE unneccessary cars from the road, period... don't even build them in the first place. No gas cars, no electric cars, etc. You eliminate cars from the road through efficiency - economic and social efficiency.

The solution lies in creating socio-economic systems that lessen our need for energy.

So, don't everyone bitch and moan that GM doesn't build electric cars. If you really cared about the environment you would RIDE A FUCKING BIKE.

Oh, your commute is 45 mins by car... so you can't ride your bike there? These are the socio-economic conditions that create energy dependency. The solution for the commuter is to live closer to work or to work from home - NOT an electric car.

[jprole]

We'll have to figure out some other way than oil eventually.

[Quagmire]

http://www.theaircar.com/

After fourteen years of research and development, Guy Negre has developed an engine that could become one of the biggest technological advances of this century. Its application to CAT vehicles gives them significant economical and environmental advantages. With the incorporation of bi-energy (compressed air + fuel) the CAT Vehicles have increased their driving range to close to 2000 km with zero pollution in cities and considerably reduced pollution outside urban areas.

[Yngwie]

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

So, don't everyone bitch and moan that GM doesn't build electric cars. If you really cared about the environment you would RIDE A FUCKING BIKE.

Oh, your commute is 45 mins by car... so you can't ride your bike there? These are the socio-economic conditions that create energy dependency. The solution for the commuter is to live closer to work or to work from home - NOT an electric car.

Hell, I'm 33 years old, never owned a car, have a severe leg disability that makes it EXTREMELY hard to even walk slowly and gets worse as I age and I get around on a bike.. A pedal bike that is.. These days you see perfectly healthy and capable people use their damn car to drive to the mailbox when they could have walked and it would have taken them a couple minutes.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

No such thing as a free lunch.

You make a few good points Dollarmansteve, but your ideas are much more radical than my own, which is no easy accomplishment.

Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the White House roof, and offered tax credits to anyone who purchased solar energy systems. When Ronald Reagan took office, one of the first things he did was remove the solar panels from the White House and terminate the tax credits.

As long as big oil runs the government (especially the republicans, but both parties are guilty), then the idea of harnessing the power of the sunlight for energy is a major obstacle. Not because it is not possible, but because no one can sell sunlight (or wind, or many other safe, clean renewable sources of energy).

The solar panel solution is 100% do-able as long as the technology is mandatory. For example: no new building can be built without solar panels (again, probably not gonna happen).

Chevron purchased the battery technology patent from the EV1. Does Chevron sell batteries? No, of course not, but that just shows you how scared big oil really is of solar energy.

If all parking garages areas were covered with light roofs covered with solar panels, then each meter could provide a plug for our vehicles which we would pay for in coins, like we currently do now at parking garages and parking meters. That is just one of MANY ideas that answers the question regarding how to charge your vehicle when needed. Solar powers on the vehicle itself would solve another, as would wind turbines that charge your car batteries while you are moving as yet another!

If there was no such thing as oil we would still be driving and flying as we do today... we just wouldn't be using oil to do it.

It is already late in the game, but we really need to make huge changes in this world, and since big oil has been screwing us for so long, and running interference with regards to squashing new and better technologies, then maybe we need to say the hell with big oil and GM, and other car manufacturers, and band together towards a better future.

Where there is a will there is a way. I refuse to buy into the idea that change is too tough, and that oil is still the way to go. Oil sucks, ethenol sucks, hydrogen sucks, hybrids even suck. As far as I can see, all of those solutions continue to line the pockets of big oil (for many many reasons, too long to list right now), so the electric car, powered by reuseable batteries, charged by the sun and wind, is absolutely the radical and clean move ahead.

Oddly enough the electric car actually predates the gasoline powered combustion engine, but that is another story...

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

http://www.theaircar.com/

After fourteen years of research and development, Guy Negre has developed an engine that could become one of the biggest technological advances of this century. Its application to CAT vehicles gives them significant economical and environmental advantages. With the incorporation of bi-energy (compressed air + fuel) the CAT Vehicles have increased their driving range to close to 2000 km with zero pollution in cities and considerably reduced pollution outside urban areas.

Nice find Quagmire! Let's see where these new technologies lead us.

Big oil can only squash and hide so many ideas and inventions before their game comes to an end.

With the internet allowing sensible people to communicate about these things, it will soon become much more difficult to hide the facts, and force the genie back into the bottle, like they tried to do with the EV1.

Who will win? Intelligent common people, or greedy, dirty, big fucking oil?

The race is on! If you are on the team that wants clean water, clean air, and no longer cares to be a slave to big oil, the middle east, and corrupt leadership, then spread the word.

Post links on forums, write to your political leaders, think up solutions and invent new products for the betterment of the planet.

How about a televised show devoted to saving the planet? A competition of sorts, where the contestants invent and explain new technologies every week to win the game. Would the networks have the power to air such a show? Once contestants begin to introduce the world to credible alternatives to oil, blatently and credibly on public TV, will things finally change?

[Ace_luffy]

i hope mankind can discover how they can use water as a alternative for gasoline

always GIANT gasoline producer who always earn it this world

[Dollarmansteve]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the White House roof, and offered tax credits to anyone who purchased solar energy systems. When Ronald Reagan took office, one of the first things he did was remove the solar panels from the White House and terminate the tax credits.

As long as big oil runs the government (especially the republicans, but both parties are guilty), then the idea of harnessing the power of the sunlight for energy is a major obstacle. Not because it is not possible, but because no one can sell sunlight (or wind, or many other safe, clean renewable sources of energy).

The solar panel solution is 100% do-able as long as the technology is mandatory. For example: no new building can be built without solar panels (again, probably not gonna happen).

Politics and economics don't mix. Let's leave government intervention to the communists / totalitarians. Free markets have proven to be the greatest creator of wealth and quality of life vis a vis any other economic/social/political model.

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Chevron purchased the battery technology patent from the EV1. Does Chevron sell batteries? No, of course not, but that just shows you how scared big oil really is of solar energy.

Big oil isn't "scared" of solar evergy or any other potential energy source. They are in the energy business and they are public companies who have a mandate to grow profits. When there are profit centers in 'alternative' energy sources, they will invest tens of billions in those technologies to grow their businesses.

Originally Posted by BFT3K

If all parking garages areas were covered with light roofs covered with solar panels, then each meter could provide a plug for our vehicles which we would pay for in coins, like we currently do now at parking garages and parking meters. That is just one of MANY ideas that answers the question regarding how to charge your vehicle when needed. Solar powers on the vehicle itself would solve another, as would wind turbines that charge your car batteries while you are moving as yet another!

I am all for 'green' architecture / engineering. It acknowledges reality and seeks to maximize efficiency - both concepts that I enjoy.

Originally Posted by BFT3K

If there was no such thing as oil we would still be driving and flying as we do today... we just wouldn't be using oil to do it.

If this were a philisophical discussion I might entertain this 'though experiment'.. unfortunately it is only applicable in some other parallel universe and not the one we currently exist in. Hell, maybe in that universe we can all run really, really, really fast AND have wings.. these assumptions are just as valid in the above context.

Originally Posted by BFT3K

It is already late in the game, but we really need to make huge changes in this world, and since big oil has been screwing us for so long, and running interference with regards to squashing new and better technologies, then maybe we need to say the hell with big oil and GM, and other car manufacturers, and band together towards a better future.

Where there is a will there is a way. I refuse to buy into the idea that change is too tough, and that oil is still the way to go. Oil sucks, ethenol sucks, hydrogen sucks, hybrids even suck. As far as I can see, all of those solutions continue to line the pockets of big oil (for many many reasons, too long to list right now), so the electric car, powered by reuseable batteries, charged by the sun and wind, is absolutely the radical and clean move ahead.

Oddly enough the electric car actually predates the gasoline powered combustion engine, but that is another story...

No, it's not another story. It was never commercially successful because it was an inferior product. It is a perfect example of the free market system weeding out products that do not satisfy consumer demand. Consumer demand is based on value and electric cars simply do not provide the necessary value to be a viable product.

Also, this magical vehicle you speak of is not technologically out of reach - it is just too expensive to justify it's existence for mass production. The only forces in play here are economic forces. So unless the economic foundation of the Western world crumbles, you won't see this vehicle at your local dealership anytime soon... and it isn't because of 'big oil' (which is such a weak term might I add.. it's a buzzword used to indoctornate the masses with activist propaganda).

I hear alot of political / media rhetoric in your words. "...we need to make huge changes in this world.." "...big oil has been screwing us..." etc.

These attitudes / opinions are just hot air. Political/social extremists are motivated by their own narcissistic passions and not by solutions to problems. Lets not forget that the day the "oil problem" is solved is the day when anyone who campaigns on the platform / makes money from it is out of business. Adctivists need the problem to keep going on, the last thing they ever would want is an actual solution!!

[Robbie]

I just want to know why greed and making lots of money is all of a sudden such a bad thing? I'm greedy as hell! I love to make money! Fuck... I wish I owned "big oil" (whatever that means). For all the conspiracy theories, I can't help but feel like whenever someone builds a better mousetrap...it will replace internal combustion engines. But it will have to work just as good AND be cheaper or at least not much more expensive to use.
And when that happens, I'm sure a bunch of people will bemoan "Big Sun" or "Big Wind" because somebody WILL find a way to make it a very profitable business. Probably some kind of license we'll all have to pay.
So what?
That's what makes the world go round. People making money. Hell, those evil oil companies are probably a big percentage of our economy and employ a hell of a lot of people too.
I'm just hoping that the next energy source is jacking off. Then WE would be in control!

[Jimmy Rock]

thats crazy..i wish i had one

[Dollarmansteve]

Originally Posted by Robbie

..., I'm sure a bunch of people will bemoan "Big Sun" or "Big Wind" because somebody WILL find a way to make it a very profitable business. Probably some kind of license we'll all have to pay.
So what? ...

I lol'd

[BFT3K]

Let me go get my decoder ring out of storage and I'll post a reply soon. I need to translate your "status quo defeatism" to something sensible, and I just can't do it on my own.

I wind up coming up with thoughts like these, and they just don't seem to make any sense...

* If I buy a Hummer, and then I buy oil stocks, then when it gets to the point where it costs me $500 for a fill up, my stocks will be soring, and I can cash in!

* As long as our economy works on greed everything should be okay.

* War over oil makes good sense, and will not bankrupt us, or lead to further terrorism.

I have to go get my decoder ring - this is all just too weird...

[Robbie]

I don't know about your decoder ring...and I don't really care what anybodies politics or world view is either...but I like you! I love big titties and man your site has big ass titties on it! I only wish this thread had been entitled "another big titty thread"...

[BFT3K]

Thanks Robbie - If the electric car falls through at least I know that big titties still have the power to bring us all together

[Ace_luffy]

wow nice answers

this thread is so serious about electric car!

[volante]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

If all parking garages areas were covered with light roofs covered with solar panels, then each meter could provide a plug for our vehicles which we would pay for in coins, like we currently do now at parking garages and parking meters. That is just one of MANY ideas that answers the question regarding how to charge your vehicle when needed. Solar powers on the vehicle itself would solve another, as would wind turbines that charge your car batteries while you are moving as yet another!

You really have no idea of the efficiency of PV panels and the energy involved in moving a car around do you? If houses in southern California only just have enough room on their roofs to house enough PV panels to provide electricity for the house, where the hell are you going to put all the additional panels you'd need for places with less than 300 sunny days per year or at more northerly latitudes? What if you live in an apartment?

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Where there is a will there is a way. I refuse to buy into the idea that change is too tough, and that oil is still the way to go. Oil sucks, ethenol sucks, hydrogen sucks, hybrids even suck. As far as I can see, all of those solutions continue to line the pockets of big oil (for many many reasons, too long to list right now), so the electric car, powered by reuseable batteries, charged by the sun and wind, is absolutely the radical and clean move ahead.

Here's a phrase for you to learn and research - "dust-to-dust energy costs". Find out why small hybrids such as the Toyota Prius and small electric cars consume more energy than most SUVs.

[Dollarmansteve]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Let me go get my decoder ring out of storage and I'll post a reply soon. I need to translate your "status quo defeatism" to something sensible, and I just can't do it on my own.

I wind up coming up with thoughts like these, and they just don't seem to make any sense...

* If I buy a Hummer, and then I buy oil stocks, then when it gets to the point where it costs me $500 for a fill up, my stocks will be soring, and I can cash in!

* As long as our economy works on greed everything should be okay.

* War over oil makes good sense, and will not bankrupt us, or lead to further terrorism.

I have to go get my decoder ring - this is all just too weird...

Hm, it seems you are wearing your "Must pigeon hole free thinking non-politicized educated person into my pre-defined social constructs" ring.

Where you have come up with these bizarre, cliched and far reaching statements is beyond me. I'm sorry, I don't play the "democrat vs republican" or "uhh he disagrees with me so he must suck GWB cock" school of low-brow argument.

Let me try to say something towards each of your 'thoughts' (I use the term loosely)

A) What's your point? You seem to be making some reference to hedging, whereby you would hedge your gasoline price risk by using financial instruments. The problem with this is that the financial instruments that exist to do this have too much leverage, and therefore, would amplify your individual gas price risk protection (meaning small swings in the price of gas would have a small effect at the pump but a huge effect in your hedge portfolio). To just hedge with stocks is a 'weak' hedge since of the relatively lower correlation of the price of a company stock vs. the price of gasoline. All in all, I would not suggest this strategy. Also, hummers are a bitch to park.

B) You seem to confuse greed with the concept of rational actors seeking to maximize <happiness, profit, whatever they want to maximize>. John Nash did some great work in game theory that encapsulates the behavior of rational actors across general situations. The beauty of his work is that is applies in both micro and macro environments. So, to simply say "the economy works on greed" is a really, really bad oversimplification.. but I'm sure it plays well in some crowds.

C) This seems to be an attempt to ride on the coat-tails of the ever popular American political system, where blue people fight with red people over a wide array of silliness (as far as i understand it). This is a real stretch - to draw causalities from the Iraq war to the production of electric cars via some big-oil / corrupt-political-gang mechanism should be left in the realm of drunken arguing about politics by people who don't know much about anything - other than that one strategy to attempt to win any political argument is to take the anti-Bush stance and make ambiguous general comments about 'foreign policy' , 'oil wars' and how GWB did coke and was a drunkard in college.

[volante]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Solar powers on the vehicle itself would solve another, as would wind turbines that charge your car batteries while you are moving as yet another!

If you're seriously talking about wind turbines on cars that generate energy while the car is moving, then here is another phrase for you to look up: "Perpetual Motion".

[BFT3K]

First of all I do not have a specific political agenda, as I believe both parties take money from the oil and car companies, so progress continues to be stifled.

Dollarmansteve - in my opinion you are wholly misanthropic. If anyone has a political position here, your pro-Bush pro-republican stance has become abundantly clear.

Your postings are quite verbose, and pathetic, and often drift off-topic. It is almost as if you are arguing simply to argue. Your self-absorbed pseudo-intellectual ramblings prove nothing, except perhaps you can bore people to death through words.

All I have been trying to do is wake people up to a few realities, in hopes of progressing mankind a bit, and your arguments simply attempt to squash progress through incredible negativity. You are the embodiment of technological stagnation. Your lack of imagination is exactly what I have been complaining about all along... just zero vision.

More soon!

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by volante

You really have no idea of the efficiency of PV panels and the energy involved in moving a car around do you? If houses in southern California only just have enough room on their roofs to house enough PV panels to provide electricity for the house, where the hell are you going to put all the additional panels you'd need for places with less than 300 sunny days per year or at more northerly latitudes? What if you live in an apartment?

Too bad you have to resort to shortsighted misinformation volante.

Read this article if you have a moment. Looks like "Sunny Germany" understands how to address solar energy, and their innovative and creative alternative energy companies are turning the idea into big business as well...

http://www.wired.com/science/discove.../2001/07/45056

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Actions are needed. This site offers some options...

http://www.pluginamerica.com/action.shtml

The future should be decided by the common people... not by big oil!

common people in america do decide... they buy big ass cars and SUV's and aren't really interested in gas mileage.

[Jai]

Cars from Chinabefore electric cars become a worldy evolution of cars...we still have to see the chinese auto industry replace the american ford and GM...

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

common people in america do decide... they buy big ass cars and SUV's and aren't really interested in gas mileage.

Unfortunately you speak the truth Pleasurepays. Sad but true. Of course a lack of choice plays into the decision making as well.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Jai

Cars from Chinabefore electric cars become a worldy evolution of cars...we still have to see the chinese auto industry replace the american ford and GM...

China is one of the most polluted nations on the planet. You make a good point Jai, China should be manufacturing the electric car for certain. It is bizarre that they continue to rely on oil and coal, especially considering their current environment. If any country needs to make a big change China should be on the forefront for certain.

In fact, China's pollution is so bad it effects all of us, well beyond China's borders...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/...in178697.shtml

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Unfortunately you speak the truth Pleasurepays. Sad but true. Of course a lack of choice plays into the decision making as well.

what lack of choice? we have public transportation that goes largely unused. we have car pool lanes that empty... no one wants to walk. no one wants to ride a bike etc.

no one buys a new Escalade or any of the other large SUV's that get 9 miles to the gallon because they don't have a choice. They don't care.

its not that i don't understand your argument/discussion... i think that it is always one sided and ignores consumers. everything isn't a conspiracy. obviously major auto manufacturers, oil companies and even government have interests... but the American people are the ones buying the most inefficient cars on the planet by CHOICE. Manufuactes don't dictate tastes any more than Cosmopolitan Magazine shapes anyones opinion about what a cute girl is.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

what lack of choice? we have public transportation that goes largely unused. we have car pool lanes that empty... no one wants to walk. no one wants to ride a bike etc.

no one buys a new Escalade or any of the other large SUV's that get 9 miles to the gallon because they don't have a choice. They don't care.

I agree with you to a point, but everyone makes better decisions when they are given choices. Gas prices are up in the US right now, so which car company benefits the most? The one with the best gas mileage. This is why Toyota has recently beat out the pack...

http://www.insidebayarea.com/business/ci_6046134

Most people really DO care.