rick-e

totally fucked up

Corona

I like how the first month of this the press and US government kept refering to her as a "woman" even though she was 14.

Do you think if during the 2257 investigations they find a performer that was 1 day under the age of 18 they will refer to her as a "woman" or "child"?

iDope

more sad is that there are people justifying the inhuman act.

Fabien

This will never stop
I'm so ashamed of men

Forgive us (who ever)

SomeCreep

I guess some soldiers over there in Iraq feel like since they're a million miles away from home and fighting in a land of constant chaos, they can just do anything and get away with it.

Pretty sad.

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just a punk

CNN.com:

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Paul Markham

I agree with you. Where are the comments about the thousands of innocents who have died in this war?

More have died since Bush declared Peace. Good to see the guy has his finger on the button.

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E$_manager

Is he talking about the way he would do with the girl? THe same way?????

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Miss Nancy

This is too sad....why do these criminals find it so easy to hurt young females and get away with it?


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E$_manager

Sometimes i think they all cover with the war to make violance. May be this is really so....

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Drake

Just curious if anybody knows. Has a US soldier ever been put to death for a war crime?

Persignup Dustin

craziness!!!

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Scootermuze

At least they are going to punish the perps..

This stuff happened on an ongoing basis in Nam..
Not to mention occurences like the Melai Massacre.. The soldiers go in one week and hand out candy and what not.. then a week later go back in and 22 men, women, and children are mowed down for nothing.. Several rapes while it was happening.. Lt. Calley headed it up and was like 23 and was convicted and given life at hard labor... He served about 3 days, then they returned him to his base for house arrest.. then Nixon commutes the sentence to time served and he's free to walk.. served no time to even speak of..

Kennedy calls this war, "Bush's Vietnam"

Scootermuze

Some guys are thugs anyway, then when put in such a situation, just have a field day; thinking they'll get away with it.. and usually do..

Some guys, when thrown into such a situation, find it very difficult to cope and either get stupid on drugs, or just turn into animals to keep from losing it altogether.. then crazy things happen..

Others just turn it all inward and find it impossible to remain normal..

There are still Vietnam vets living in forests, away from civilization because they couldn't re-adjust when they returned home.. War is an ugly thing and it can turn people into creatures..

But I think in this case, it was just a matter of a few punks getting drunk and stupid and possibly daring each other to carry it all out.. And those involved should be put to death without remorse..

Webby

Sure hope not Cristie - if so, kinda makes you wonder how low the human species will go.

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goldrush

Well if you've gone to all the trouble of rounding up your buddies for some golf and chicken wings and raping then you may as well kill the witnesses and try to hide the evidence, it's the only logical thing to do.

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Webby

There is more yet to be revealed from the hearings - but smell you may be correct. Although that is no excuse for deliberately embarking on a spree of "killing Iraqis" and then prob gang raping a kid then murdering her parents and younger sister - there have been comments about a failed command structure which may not have helped. Punks need ass kicking to keep them in line.

Dunno why, but one even admitted the aim was to "kill Iraqis" whoever they were - that alone shows a clear intent to murder at the outset and regarded as some kind of sport.

Bad and "unfortunate" stuff always happens in wars - there has been plenty already yet to come out - but this incident does seem to be of the worst level and has little to do with "wars".

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Webby

Mmm... so far, it appears the original intent was to kill illegally (admitted in statements).

The young girl was just there to abused in the process. Assuming there is a conviction - they are all murdering and child-raping scum.

Unfortunately, there are around another ten investigations of similar instances yet to come - and that's the ones which are being investigated by US military units. International orgs already have filing cabinets full of similar problems and there is now a dissatisfation in Iraq (govt and public) over claims of uninvestigated incidents. This stuff is obviously not going to be ignored by others - time will tell.

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Asswipe, for once you are correct. This incident has nothing to do with war, or war crimes. As I told you earlier it is a simple case of murder and rape and will be tried as such under the UCMJ. Murder and rape charges are not all of that infrequent in the military with or without an ongoing conflict.

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Asswipe, the military investigates all allegations of criminal action committed by its members. Some investigations do not reach the level of an article 32 investigation and courts martial as they are found to be without merit.

Webby

Are you insane or something?? Stalking is unhealthy - seek professional help.

I don't give a flying fuck about the procedures of any military - US or otherwise.

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Webby

US military prosecutors may be more qualified than shitty old sexy pants - they have already stated they are dealing with war crimes. Live with it.

Yeah.. the world is now more than aware there are these "small incidents" of murders and rapes by US military. It's a habit I'm sure you know about.

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Sexxxy Sites

Asswipe it is immaterial what anyone reports about what a military prosecutor may or may not have stated. When they are Court Martialed they will be tried for murder and rape and a variety of of other UCMJ violations (the same as if they were not in a combat zone), but they will not be tried for war crimes.

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Asswipe it is the same "habit" the human race has, world wide, be they in the military or be they not.

Webby

Take your sicko brain and piss off out of this thread - it's above your selfish concern of trying to defend your damned country and a load of political garbage.

Your opinions don't matter.

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Sexxxy Sites

There is not a single post of mine in this thread that is defending anything or anything political, asswipe, and I defy you to use quotes.

Now you lying, broke, third world piece of shit.

Webby

You have nothing to offer - just your usual spin, stalking and the usual pathetic insults. You are clearly a totally ignorant and clueless old ass with defensive selfishness oozing all over.

This thread is not about you and your stalking problem - it's about raped kids and murder.

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I am fully aware what the thread is about and I have not presented any spin or politics or any defense of anything. Now you lying, broke, third world piece of shit.

Webby

Claim what you will - you have offered nothing.

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The only thing that you ever offer, asswipe, is lies, BS, and hatred of the US. Now go suck some more tourists dicks and STFU you broke, third world piece of shit.

Webby

And this is coming from a stalker who offers nothing apart from childish insults - pathetic coming from an old man - plus attempted defense and procedures of the US military and attempting to minimize the offenses as "a simple case of murder and rape".

Your "career" today on GFY comprises of chatboard warrior posts on this thread with no content or substance??? Yet, you are not defending anything???

This issue is not any "a simple case of murder and rape" - more multiple murders and the rape of a child. Contrary to your opinion - the US prosecution is treating this as a war crime - along with serveral other investigations.

All you can do is be a chatboard stalker and recite your cliches about a "lying, broke, third world piece of shit"??? You need professional treatment.

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Asswipe, I just reread the UCMJ and I am unable to find the article in the UCMJ that provides for a charge of committing a war crime. I thought that it was possible they had added it since I left the military but apparently not. Please educate me and quote the article that one is charged with for committing a war crime. If you cannot then please shut the fuck up about this act of murder and rape being anything other than that, murder and rape. They will be charged with the same articles of the UCMJ just as they would be, whether egaged in a conflict or not.

Webby

Make an effort to read the reports from this hearing - and others. I'm not going to entertain any of your garbage, tho briefly - these are the words of the prosecution:

There are also other issues which are being treated as war crimes in currently ongoing investigations (refer to the killings of 24 Iraqis in Haditha last November as an example).

Due to the numbers of possible problem incidents, there is now demands for change of procedure where US personnel can be prosecuted in the Iraqi courts. It's clearly an absurd scenario and weakens credibility for the US military to be investigating/prosecuting serious offenses as an internal issue when other countries would refer their troops to the ICC for these types of offenses. It's also prob not a good idea to have Iraqi courts deal with this - again, they are clearly not independent tho may help cool the objections from the Iraqi govt and people.

Don't tell me trash about the UCMJ not being able to prosecute war crimes. If that is the case - who the fuck is prosecuting them? Or have we never entertained the concept that US troops could possibly commit war crimes??

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Webby

BTW... I'll just say... I really don't give a shit about US military code or the methods applied.

The fact is people have been murdered and raped and one way or other they will pay a price - whether thru legal channels or otherwise. That is the cost of behaving like scum.

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The UCMJ covers crime. Soldiers are charged under the UCMJ. The UCMJ does not have an article charging a war crime. The articles cover crime. Soldiers are charged with UCMJ articles in peace time or in time of war. Why is this so hard for you to understand, asswipe?

A soldier captures a dozen enemy they become POW's. Another soldier kills all 12 of the POW's. Is the soldier charged with a war crime. No. He is charged with murder. The UCMJ is the same in time of peace or time of war.

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BTW, the killing of POW's is a war crime as defined by the Geneva convention, but the soldier is not charged with a war crime as this does not exist in the articles of the UCMJ. As stated he would be charged with murder. Do you now understand, asswipe?

Webby

Do you think you enhance your posts by pathetic attempts to by offensive by using your stupid cliches? It says a lot about you.

I already said - it matters little what the UCMJ says or what legal basis prosecutions are carried out. I'd be more concerned about child rape and killings than technicalities over legal isssues.

Basically we have a nation who likes to play with words and stuff up any defence to war crimes. I think, assuming you have described this clearly - namely that the US is unable to prosecute it's own personnel for war crimes.

Any soldier who kills 12 of the POW's (assuming it is as simple as that) - has just committed a war crime. Any group of soldiers in a war zone who, with premeditation, agree to embark on the wholesale murder/shootings of innocent civilians (their admission) and in the process rape children have committed a war crime.

If the US govt ever formally expresses anything to the contrary and suggest such incidents are not war crimes deserves total contempt and disgust from other nations.

War crimes are defined by the Geneva Convention and the US claims to be a signatory. It never was up to internal politics or the UCMJ as to what is a war crime.

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Webby

You are wasting my time - I'm not interesting in the ramblings of a sick stalker with nothing of substance to offer.

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Of course the soldiers are prosecuted for crimes the same in war as in peacetime under the UCMJ. The USMJ does not have an article that charges one with a war crime. It has articles that charges one with a crime/crimes. Easy concept to understand, asswipe.

Webby

Very easy to understand Old Sexy Pants - It means the US is unable, obviously by design, to charge it's own personnel with war crimes. That says it all - and hence deserves total contempt.

That does not in any way exclude such a conviction from being a war crime - whether the US thinks so or not. The GC already defines that.

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To the best of my knowledge a "war crime" is a definition not a legal charge, charged by any country or any court. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, asswipe. Tell me what country or what court charges someone with a "war crime".

Webby

It is a term defined under the Geneva Convention and that used by the US prosecutor in this case and clearly is a war crime under the GC.

What the fuck is this dialog about??? It is you who out of your own agenda raised it - it has absolutely nothing to do with the title of this thread or anything to do with child rape and murders. Who cares what the niceties of the legal process are? I don't give a shit - the relevant issue is the actual crime and victims, not your bullshit agenda trying to put up a good face in defense.

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In other words you too do not know of a country or a court that legally charges someone with a "war crime". They are charged with crimes that are committed during war time, but the same charges are applied during peace time. So I guess one can say "war crime" and/or "peace crime", as the crime that is charged is one and the same.

Webby

There is no specific charge of "war crime" - that is clearly laid out under the GC. The difference with the US situation is clearly that the current admin considered the US above all other countries and refused to participate in the ICC where, normally all war crimes issues would be handled.

The fact that there is also, apparently - no provision under whatever US code to prosecute US personnel using these terms (despite the current prosecutor in this case has classified the offense as a war crime) and considering the US is not a party to the ICC - that says volumes.

The fact that the classification normally falls into the category of war crimes and is, least for most participating countries, a more serious issue via the ICC although the actual charges may be similar. (Can't say without checking of the procedures for investigation and prosecution in the ICC instance - it obviously involves a few international agencies)

Despite the Whitehouse idiot knowing better - can't say he did US forces much credit in not participating within the ICC scenario. The standards within ICC are obviously much higher in both defence/prosecution advocacy - basicially the cream of the world's legal representation and highly qualified and impartial judges. (Know one of the first judges to be appointed to the ICC - she is *very* well balanced/impartial and has done everything from peace accords, international boundary conflicts and taken a few govts to courts). The ICC would also not be issuing execution sentences - tho, who knows, when the remaining sad saga of this case is released, perhaps the death sentence is appropriate on conviction.

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