Sent down for selling porn in the UK - SCARY SHIT

[TextBill_ben]

I'm curious what you guys make of this!!!

See the link at the top of my SIG for the actual story!


If you distribute, circulate, sell, let, hire, gave, lent or offer for sale or hire, unclassified or R18 material by any means, including video messageing, webcam, streaming or download, or conspire withsomeone else to do the same (meaning to act as an affiliate) it would be a certainty to be prosecuted.

Me - I'm a little concerned! Scary shit!

[Tuga]

That's fucked up.

[Due]

Crazy, is porn ILLEGAL in UK?
Or is it just illegal to sell it in places where minors have access?
UK is a really big market also lots of webmasters living there, sounds pretty fucked up

[Mr.Right - Banned For Life]

it seems they are only talking about dvds and unclassified dvds.

[TextBill_ben]

Originally Posted by Tuga

That's fucked up.

thats a little more than 'fucked up'

Did you see recently the guy from the UK who was arrested for operating sports betting sites in the US - even though the site and he was based in the UK?

So does this mean - if your 'unclassified' material is available to consumers in the UK you can expect a jail sentence?

[s9ann0]

I think its for DVD's and I think that guy was selling some fucked up shit

If its not then its fucked up. I don't see why the police would waste their time busted straight pornsites if they have that much time on their hands why don't they go and solve some real crimes.

[TextBill_ben]

Originally Posted by Batts

it seems they are only talking about dvds and unclassified dvds.

If you distribute, circulate, sell, let, hire, gave, lent or offer for sale or hire, unclassified or R18 material by any means, including video messageing, webcam, streaming or download

This is clearly NOT just about DVD's

[Mr.Right - Banned For Life]

Originally Posted by TextBill_ben

If you distribute, circulate, sell, let, hire, gave, lent or offer for sale or hire, unclassified or R18 material by any means, including video messageing, webcam, streaming or download

This is clearly NOT just about DVD's

They were unclassified

[TextBill_ben]

Originally Posted by Batts

They were unclassified

IS YOUR CONTENT CLASSIFIED??? Anyone?

[abz]

That story is a load of bollox. I cant post the link to another forum but im giving you a clue with [bollox] you can read the thread about it there

[gooddomains]

that is sad

[JoeA]

Here's the link to the other thread from our UK forum

http://www.beerandbollocks.com/forum...ead.php?t=5296

Look out chicken licken the sky is falling down..

The original story is a load of crap !!!

[fastfun]

Read the whole story!

[Scotty.T]

Never mind

[SGS]

Well thats half the story, the bullshit half. lol

[Farang]

that's not good

[Scott McD]

Load of shite. Nothing to worry about...

[Dvae]

Originally Posted by TextBill_ben

I'm curious what you guys make of this!!!

See the link at the top of my SIG for the actual story!


If you distribute, circulate, sell, let, hire, gave, lent or offer for sale or hire, unclassified or R18 material by any means, including video messageing, webcam, streaming or download, or conspire withsomeone else to do the same (meaning to act as an affiliate) it would be a certainty to be prosecuted.

Me - I'm a little concerned! Scary shit!

Damn there go the right Bible thumpers again
Oh wait.. its the UK
haha

[TextBill_ben]

Originally Posted by Dvae

Damn there go the right Bible thumpers again
Oh wait.. its the UK
haha

yeah - well - the UK get great tits on page 3 of their daily newspaper....

america - arest people for public nudity... what a load of shite... puritanical wankers your government...

I am scared our pansy ass PM has his tongue so far up GW's ass that we are going to follow suit..

[Dvae]

Originally Posted by TextBill_ben

I am scared our pansy ass PM has his tongue so far up GW's ass that we are going to follow suit..

What would that have to do with it?
Don't all laws/ordinances require some form of legislative input?
Since when can the PM pass any at will?

[wizhard]

Originally Posted by Scott McD

Load of shite. Nothing to worry about...

What an idiotic thing to say.

As far as I know this is the first time a UK based affiliate of a non UK based distributor has been prosecuted in this way.

If this is a sign of things to come from the UK then any UK affiliate had better be extremely carefull about what they promote on the web

[Klen]

Well you just need to be carefuil what you do and everything will be fine.

[Damian_Maxcash]

Originally Posted by JoeA

Here's the link to the other thread from our UK forum

http://www.beerandbollocks.com/forum...ead.php?t=5296

Look out chicken licken the sky is falling down..

The original story is a load of crap !!!

Got a summery? - There are pages of it!

[Webby]

Originally Posted by TextBill_ben

I'm curious what you guys make of this!!!

See the link at the top of my SIG for the actual story!


If you distribute, circulate, sell, let, hire, gave, lent or offer for sale or hire, unclassified or R18 material by any means, including video messageing, webcam, streaming or download, or conspire withsomeone else to do the same (meaning to act as an affiliate) it would be a certainty to be prosecuted.

Me - I'm a little concerned! Scary shit!

Yes?? Which part did you not understand?

The classification of video/DVD type stuff for the adult biz has been in force for decades in the UK and where the R18 category is available in licensed adult stores.

Being unlicensed and distributing/publishing porn which prob has never even been classified could well be an offense under the Obscene Publications Act (tho that's down to a jury).

[Webby]

TextBill_ben:

I you are in the UK man - also note that the Post Office Act (1953) also has a section covering "indecent material" sent via mail.

Quick summary is... send any kind of, even mild adult content, thru the mail and this can contravene the Post Office Act. This does not have to be "obscene" - simply "indecent" in the eyes of a jury.

It also does not matter if the content is eg a video which has been legally classified as R18 - if a jury considers this indecent - there's a small problem.

A person who, in collusion with another, arranges for the shipment/mailing of eg a DVD a a customer, - can be charged for conspiring to contravene the Post Office Act and convicted where that content is deemed to be indecent by a jury.

[abz]

Originally Posted by damian2001

Got a summery? - There are pages of it!

DO NOT sell any adult material that would breach the Obscene Publications Act I.E Scat which is what made the police act in this case.

BASICALLY DO NOT SELL SHIT!

[madawgz]

Originally Posted by Batts

it seems they are only talking about dvds and unclassified dvds.

yeah thats what im reading too...

[Webby]

Originally Posted by abz

DO NOT sell any adult material that would breach the Obscene Publications Act I.E Scat which is what made the police act in this case.

BASICALLY DO NOT SELL SHIT!

Ya got it!

Anything involving torture, rape, kids, canibalism, flagellation, incest and all that shit is likely to be considered for prosecution by the DPP.

[Gunni]

He was charged for violating the OPA, he was probably promoting scat dvd's or something. He wasn't charged with violating the POA.
Even if DVD's are unclssified they couldn't be ablet to prosecute him for violating the OPA if the defence could find examples of films already approved by the BBFC depicting the exactly same kind of thing, so I think he must have been promoting something that was clearly against the OPA.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by Gunni

He was charged for violating the OPA, he was probably promoting scat dvd's or something. He wasn't charged with violating the POA.
Even if DVD's are unclssified they couldn't be ablet to prosecute him for violating the OPA if the defence could find examples of films already approved by the BBFC depicting the exactly same kind of thing, so I think he must have been promoting something that was clearly against the OPA.

That's what he was convicted for Gunni - Obscene Publications. To get a conviction on that there has to be evidence of violations - ie possibly scat and or, some other contentious material. It's kinda rare to get a jury to convict on lesser content and the DPP has better stuff to do that chase porn. He is also highly unlikely to pursue an action unless there is a reasonable chance of conviction - they are aware of costs and budgets

95% of cases like this have a lot more underneath.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by TextBill_ben

thats a little more than 'fucked up'

Did you see recently the guy from the UK who was arrested for operating sports betting sites in the US - even though the site and he was based in the UK?

So does this mean - if your 'unclassified' material is available to consumers in the UK you can expect a jail sentence?

Get your facts straight. The dumbass was in Texas when he was arrested. Where you live makes no difference if you violate US law and are on US soil.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Webby

Ya got it!

Anything involving torture, rape, kids, canibalism, flagellation, incest and all that shit is likely to be considered for prosecution by the DPP.

And really, does any of the above actually involve sex as anyone reading this participates in?

Good luck drawing a jury of your peers. Even the recent Florida arrests were for facial gangbang content, not something a jury of your peers will understand or have ever taken part in.

How's the weather Webby?

[Webby]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Get your facts straight. The dumbass was in Texas when he was arrested. Where you live makes no difference if you violate US law and are on US soil.

Get your facts straight L-Pink

David and his wife were in Miami on a stop-over flight on route to Costa Rica and he was arrested - his wife was allowed to continue onwards and is in CR now - but the effect was the same.

Think on this one - on the same basis any webmaster can be arrested while flying to another country where adult-related issues are "illegal" although he has no business in that country, is not a resident/citizen or have any hosting etc.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

And really, does any of the above actually involve sex as anyone reading this participates in?

Not getting your question man - you mean is the possessor of obscene material (the buyer) committing an offense? Mmmm.. depends on each case I think - basically if it's CP and stuff like that - most prob on other charges. The Obscene Publications Act is literally covering issues of "publication" and distribution.

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Good luck drawing a jury of your peers. Even the recent Florida arrests were for facial gangbang content, not something a jury of your peers will understand or have ever taken part in.

How's the weather Webby?

Ya mean they've not participated in a swinger scene gangbang?? Sure - not easy on jury selection for that - but, who knows - not sure what a jury may think on that - tho kinda hard to defend on it's artistic values

It's prob about 84% L-Pink and the sun is shining - considering it's rainy season - it's not a bad day

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Webby

Get your facts straight L-Pink

David and his wife were in Miami on a stop-over flight on route to Costa Rica and he was arrested - his wife was allowed to continue onwards and is in CR now - but the effect was the same.

Think on this one - on the same basis any webmaster can be arrested while flying to another country where adult-related issues are "illegal" although he has no business in that country, is not a resident/citizen or have any hosting etc.

If we are talking about the same guy, I read a link where he was in Texas changing planes and arrested on an out-standing warrent based on US complaints. ?? No?

[Webby]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

And really, does any of the above actually involve sex as anyone reading this participates in?

Ah shit - getting ya man!

OK.. It can do, but - the level of "content" where the DPP would consider acting on is kinda high. Juries have had a tendency to accquit "normal sex" and the the Obscene Publications Squad ("Dirty Dozen") were disbanded - simply because there was no hope in hell of getting a conviction. (There is now a section which deals with... more net related and CP issues which apparently are more in line with required enforcement these days.)

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Webby

It's prob about 84% L-Pink and the sun is shining - considering it's rainy season - it's not a bad day

I grew-up in Hawaii, really miss that type of weather.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

If we are talking about the same guy, I read a link where he was in Texas changing planes and arrested on an out-standing warrent based on US complaints. ?? No?

Damn - you are 100% correct man! The flight was via Forth Worth - not Florida. The main focus of the case is the Kaplan's who have the Florida connection.

Can't say about an existing warrant as the basis of arrest - believe this was a complete surprise to a few people

BTW.. Gary Kaplan is the main person US prosecutors want to chat with and prob part of the reason for David's arrest (pressure). There still has been no extradition order passed to the Costa Rica govt - but suppose there is no hurry

[Webby]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

I grew-up in Hawaii, really miss that type of weather.

Nice!! Where are you now? You ever visited here?

It's rainy season (winter) at the moment - but never cold and maybe around 84 here and prob about 90 at the beach/coastline. Mid-afternoon most days there is a shower, but that often passes in an hour or so, but can be very "wet"

You got to visit for a break man!

[Marshal]

this is weird...

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Webby

Ah shit - getting ya man!

OK.. It can do, but - the level of "content" where the DPP would consider acting on is kinda high. Juries have had a tendency to accquit "normal sex" and the the Obscene Publications Squad ("Dirty Dozen") were disbanded - simply because there was no hope in hell of getting a conviction. (There is now a section which deals with... more net related and CP issues which apparently are more in line with required enforcement these days.)

Hustler, Playboy and Penthouse have paved the way for a general acceptance of porn/sex in America. So has the advertising industry. You could purchase porn at the same convenience store where your wife bought milk and your kids bought a slurpee. Gambling (cash only lotto) and cigarets are also available in the same store. NOTE: this store is also very safe.

First amendment rights were fought for, won, and accepted. (thanks Mr. Flynt)

Now the internet is here and the "fringe" elements start to appear.

*Now when you go to purchase your Playboy you must pass a Japanese girl eating shit and receiving a sperm bath.
*Your wife has to push her way thru rape, facial abuse, and cock-gagging displays before reaching the milk section.
*Your kids are shown photos of double ass fucking and horse cocksucking photos while waiting for their slurpees.
*Anyone in the family can use the charge cards to run-up gambling debt, not losses, debt ... big difference.
*Stalkers, con artists, thieves hassle you as you exit the store.
*Welcome to the net.


Now honestly, defend this. Expect older members of government to defend this, yea right. Too many of us have lost touch with the outside world. We are insiders feeling picked on, singled out.

We are our own worst enemies. Look how GFY members react to tub-girl, goatsee, animals and getting ripped off on small traffic, design deals, or shaving. Now imagine regular families.

When you look at the content of Hustler/Playboy and how the new 2257 regulations read we are loosing ground. The sad fact is this content isn't really even about sex. It's about pushing limits, being different, getting a quick buck.

Imagine Hefner showing extreme movies at one of his parties. You can't.
The owners of these sites don't have the resources to defend their own product either. As we are prosecuted for technical violations of already legal content, we will be financing and fighting for their right to continually push limits long past most of my own.

Just my rambling thoughts ... I don't see a clean end to this ..... Lee

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Webby

Nice!! Where are you now? You ever visited here?

It's rainy season (winter) at the moment - but never cold and maybe around 84 here and prob about 90 at the beach/coastline. Mid-afternoon most days there is a shower, but that often passes in an hour or so, but can be very "wet"

You got to visit for a break man!

Webby, Live in Lexington, Kentucky ..... I will visit. For the arguing we have done about various topics, I DO understand your points about CR ... gotta go.

[pornguy]

I keep telling you people that the US has the term Long arm of the law for a reason.

[godisdead]

This is completely sick! If people want to buy and watch porn that's their business. Who has the arrogance to tell people what they should do with their lifes and force them to do so???!! I hate people like that. Yes, I fucking hate them!

[TextBill_ben]

Originally Posted by Webby

Get your facts straight L-Pink

David and his wife were in Miami on a stop-over flight on route to Costa Rica and he was arrested - his wife was allowed to continue onwards and is in CR now - but the effect was the same.

Think on this one - on the same basis any webmaster can be arrested while flying to another country where adult-related issues are "illegal" although he has no business in that country, is not a resident/citizen or have any hosting etc.

Thank-you.... I think someone got the 'gist' of what I was saying.... So the fact that my company does billing for something that may be illegal in some market... should I be arrested and charged with a criminal offense?

The implications of this story are WAAAAY beyond DVD sales as it explicitly mentions streaming/webcam content etc...

Content that 'you' are producing/selling that is 'hard-core' is almost certainly beyond the R18 laws of the UK....

Fancy being arrested and sent down as you step off the plane?
Even better, when reciprocal extradition treaties are in place - perhaps you can be hauled out of your house for breaking UK laws?

Does it matter where in the world you are when you break a national law? - NO - It doesn't! You want to live by a naieve belief that you are beyond that countries' reach?

PS - rant NOT aimed at webby....

[just a punk]

The keyword there is unclassified!

[Magix]

that's not good

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by godisdead

This is completely sick! If people want to buy and watch porn that's their business. Who has the arrogance to tell people what they should do with their lifes and force them to do so???!! I hate people like that. Yes, I fucking hate them!

The selling of cd's featuring "scat" the eating of human or animal shit is restricted to face-to-face transactions at approved adult stores. This makes sure adults only view it.

Is watching someone eat turds really porn?

[Stumps]

Originally Posted by Webby

That's what he was convicted for Gunni - Obscene Publications. To get a conviction on that there has to be evidence of violations - ie possibly scat and or, some other contentious material. It's kinda rare to get a jury to convict on lesser content and the DPP has better stuff to do that chase porn. He is also highly unlikely to pursue an action unless there is a reasonable chance of conviction - they are aware of costs and budgets

95% of cases like this have a lot more underneath.

hahahaha costs and budgets of uk courts is ridicufuckingless.

they are not aware of costs and budgets at all

its up to the fucking tax payer

i talk from experience here people

[Webby]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Hustler, Playboy and Penthouse have paved the way for a general acceptance of porn/sex in America. So has the advertising industry. You could purchase porn at the same convenience store where your wife bought milk and your kids bought a slurpee. Gambling (cash only lotto) and cigarets are also available in the same store. NOTE: this store is also very safe.

First amendment rights were fought for, won, and accepted. (thanks Mr. Flynt)

Now the internet is here and the "fringe" elements start to appear.

*Now when you go to purchase your Playboy you must pass a Japanese girl eating shit and receiving a sperm bath.
*Your wife has to push her way thru rape, facial abuse, and cock-gagging displays before reaching the milk section.
*Your kids are shown photos of double ass fucking and horse cocksucking photos while waiting for their slurpees.
*Anyone in the family can use the charge cards to run-up gambling debt, not losses, debt ... big difference.
*Stalkers, con artists, thieves hassle you as you exit the store.
*Welcome to the net.


Now honestly, defend this. Expect older members of government to defend this, yea right. Too many of us have lost touch with the outside world. We are insiders feeling picked on, singled out.

We are our own worst enemies. Look how GFY members react to tub-girl, goatsee, animals and getting ripped off on small traffic, design deals, or shaving. Now imagine regular families.

When you look at the content of Hustler/Playboy and how the new 2257 regulations read we are loosing ground. The sad fact is this content isn't really even about sex. It's about pushing limits, being different, getting a quick buck.

Imagine Hefner showing extreme movies at one of his parties. You can't.
The owners of these sites don't have the resources to defend their own product either. As we are prosecuted for technical violations of already legal content, we will be financing and fighting for their right to continually push limits long past most of my own.

Just my rambling thoughts ... I don't see a clean end to this ..... Lee

The first part of your post describes much the same as what happened in the EU (tho some countries were more liberal on their attitudes to porn - tho it was never thrust in your face).

There is something to be said for sticking your head above the trenches and being an "poineer", tho - only my , suspect that day is over where you can justifiably do that. Those where the absurd days when pubic hair was "illegal" We have come a long way since then.

Another bit on that topic - it's not a wonderful idea to push to boat out for money or getting an edge on competitors. If the intention is a considered one and where it can be justified to be for the overall good - ya want a strategy to go thru prob a few court cases and stay with your decisions till a law changes - not a smooth ride.

Agree - depending on the actual wording of laws, it prob would be hard for a defense advocate to explain to a jury how a "Japanese girl eating shit and receiving a sperm bath" was violating freedom of expression or the content had artist values or whatever defenses were allowed under the respective law. It's personal opinions, but find it hard to even see that are being erotic. (With a case like that - hell - I'd plea bargain ASAP )

You are 100% correct in that we are our own worst enemies. Often a minority within the adult biz either have a desire to become more competitive in content display, or simply have no clue of acceptable guidelines. (It is easy as hell to become complacent when you see porn day in, day out - and "judgement" sometimes can be easier to fail.) The folks who do step out of line can be the most damaging to this industry.

On the flip side - we prob need to be "aware" of cases as they arise. Prosecutors, especially elected ones, could have a ambition tendencies towards fame and a tally sheet of convictions whether these are justified or not. Several countries layout the basis on which they may persue legal action - that's at least a good guideline to follow (Tho much of that is often not what we would consider to be in the adult biz as we know it.)

Only me, but I never saw much wrong with the original 2257 - it was "supposed" to ensure only adults played in the biz. It's a pity that law was rarely (never?) enforced - so much for child protection. Dunno what to say about the 2257 revamp - it's all been said already, - but it's clear that this is little more than enforced record-keeping with little focus on CP or protection.

Bottom line.. and OK, in some instances there are no published clear guidelines, in which case it has to be a personal opinion and possibly based on a legal opinion - but every webmaster or publisher of "adult content" needs to be fully aware of what he's publishing and what the overall effect this will have on the "average member of the public" - a possible jury.

I know and I'm sure you are well aware - some content, even from main sponsors, would stand no chance in hell of passing favorably with a jury in an obscenity trial. It's easy to slap up a few web pages - what you put on them can land ya in a jail cell unless there is *some* responsibility.

Having done that load of rambling - there's plenty to do in "adult" that does not go near that borderline area