do i buy more condos/houses or vacant land? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Webby · 08-15-2006, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleazyDream

zoning will take 5-10 years.

saw every development on lake winnipeg where i grew up happen - almost EVERY one was DENIED when they went to the municiplaity to get approval. then they all just said fuck it I can do what i want on my land and developed it and once it was developed went to the municiplity and the municipality said- no money cost to us and increased revenue - umm ok.

when you have nothing and goto any municiplaity they think it'll cost them money and they say no. you have to do it first. seen it 100X where i grew up and the zoning of the land says i can do all that as it's zonded general purpose agricultural so i can put in roads and raise land and such without going to the municipality for permission

Nice one - and profitable!!!

I got one property which is.. 80% re-zoned now (made up of five farms - four now rezoned) and a very nice judge dealing with it. As a matter of course, there were the standard objection/appeal processes (they even appeal without having a clue as to the property and these are crushed in court). The only remaining bit to do now is a new map segment which was a query over a public road - but the appeals have been finished and judge has agreed to sign off the last 20% when he's presented with the new map. This has taken about 2 years so far, but should be finished in the next three months or so.

You are correct - the value on rezoning is very substantial and well worth the effort, time and money staying with it - even if it took 10 years.

bauhaus · 08-15-2006, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

Look into buying some land in Costa Rica, Nicaragua, St Kitts, Belize even. the appreciation value in underdeveloped countries is about what it has been in major growth areas of the US/Can over the last few years. The investment amount is pennies on the dollar to buying in North America and if you string enough property together on a single waterfront over time, you're pretty well guaranteed that you'd have the option of either selling it for a handsome profit to a developer or potentially developing it yourself, either into condos/houses or some sort of a resort, especially if you're seriously looking at a ten year plan.

Lots of potential still down south...moving to Costa Rica for the new year... sitting on 10acres over 3 plots now.... all oceanfront or 300-500m away at worse.

Plan is to build high end boutique villas.... Lenny Kravitz just rented my house for new years *shhh to share with Kate Moss* and enjoy the landscape while still working and playing the real estate market there a little bit. Costa Rica for one *depending on the area* is BOOMING, Sting, Olsen Twins, Harrison Ford are within 1km of my house now, Land is sold 10times over in the past 2 yrs that I have known about this particular place.

Was the first place I found to build my house... $160k USD but I needed the full funds in 24hrs...just didn't have it RIGHT THERE with me... so I skipped on it said fuck it... I can buy it later. Its sold in January of this year *approx 8 months after I almost bought it* for 2.2million USD So there are gems of locations all over the world.... I am sure Costa Rica is already fully into the upward swing. My house sits on a $90k plot that I bought in January of this year, my partner bought the neighbor for $155k in February, and I just had an offer of $680k USD for my house *land $90k + house $110k* that would be $480k USD profit in 6 months basically..... $200k liquid down on the spot.

Everywhere is booming..but it just can't last.. I mean sure some people are making more money but its not an even spread across the classes. I am sure the offshore high end market will stick around another few years until its hits it roof as well. But it will all have to level out in the end I just decided to play my cards in the jungle where harrison ford suddenly becomes your neighbor then in the hustle bustle city where a bachelor condo is $250k for 355sqft

Webby · 08-15-2006, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bauhaus

Lots of potential still down south...moving to Costa Rica for the new year... sitting on 10acres over 3 plots now.... all oceanfront or 300-500m away at worse.

Plan is to build high end boutique villas.... Lenny Kravitz just rented my house for new years *shhh to share with Kate Moss* and enjoy the landscape while still working and playing the real estate market there a little bit. Costa Rica for one *depending on the area* is BOOMING, Sting, Olsen Twins, Harrison Ford are within 1km of my house now, Land is sold 10times over in the past 2 yrs that I have known about this particular place.

Was the first place I found to build my house... $160k USD but I needed the full funds in 24hrs...just didn't have it RIGHT THERE with me... so I skipped on it said fuck it... I can buy it later. Its sold in January of this year *approx 8 months after I almost bought it* for 2.2million USD So there are gems of locations all over the world.... I am sure Costa Rica is already fully into the upward swing. My house sits on a $90k plot that I bought in January of this year, my partner bought the neighbor for $155k in February, and I just had an offer of $680k USD for my house *land $90k + house $110k* that would be $480k USD profit in 6 months basically..... $200k liquid down on the spot.

Everywhere is booming..but it just can't last.. I mean sure some people are making more money but its not an even spread across the classes. I am sure the offshore high end market will stick around another few years until its hits it roof as well. But it will all have to level out in the end I just decided to play my cards in the jungle where harrison ford suddenly becomes your neighbor then in the hustle bustle city where a bachelor condo is $250k for 355sqft

Hehe .. that is *almost* kinda typical bauhaus - love the sound of that buy at $160K and outgoing at $2.2

Is you pic of that property? Good ocean view! Hilltops/views sell for very good money and generally over $100/sq meter ($1mill min/hectare).

Beachfront a lot more - and almost impossible to estimate the value of that as it's constantly increasing. One lot was offered at $9mill a few years back - had the usual Costa Rica features and 1.5 miles of beach in total. We were sitting quibbling over it - when in fact, the beachfront alone if plotted was showing a sale value of about $1 - $1.5mill for a two acre plot. There are a lot of 2 acre plots on 1.5 miles of beachfront!

Kimmykim · 08-15-2006, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webby

You just hit that nail on the head KK - tho there may be pro's and con's to both markets - overall there is much more latitude outside the "conventional marketplace" and far more prospect of a better return on investment.

All countries you mentioned have good elements for prospective investment (not sure about St. Kitt's tho - kinda limited), - but add Panama to your list

St Kitts is a bit more developed than the rest, so the prices are higher. However, with investment in StK, you also have the opportunity to carry a second passport as a citizen (something that isn't offered in that many others) and some of the new development commercially there (race track and cricket) make for very attractive possibilities. StK also has a very liberal ownership policy for foreigners, as opposed to some of the other countries on the list.

As more and more Americans become disenchanted with the current (and future) political shenanigans in the US, I think you will see alot more expatriation by wealthy US citizens. Couple that with the rest of the world who already have no qualms about moving to newly developed areas and the potential for massive ROI is stable for years to come. Choosing a country to invest in should also involve a LOT of research into the political stability of that country. CAFTA, the treaty that's going to put a lot of Americans on the run -- think sportsbook owners etc due to the fact that extradition will start to happen -- may also leave alot of opportunities to buy property at great values and have stable poli situations. US dollars into these CAFTA countries, for those that don't already have good infrastructure will also help. Nicaragua for instance, has a telecom setup in parts of the country that rival anything else in CA, and in parts of NA. US dollars funded alot of development when there was a military presence in the area, and these systems are still in place and maintained.

There are a lot of places online to do research, just be wary of the dozens of realtors and agents that are in the property business. Titles and ownership in most countries are strictly regulated and doing business with a reputable agent is key.

bauhaus · 08-15-2006, 01:29 PM

I wish I bought the lot was my point... I didn't and thats what it just sold for.. an israeli bank bought the entire mountain for 22million and parcelled it out... way outta my league good sir. Maybe not yours but for sure its outta mine.

didn't even have a road going to it... a wild quad track at best. Thats my buddy and his wife in the pic. The lot is pretty much parallel to sunset reef. Hence why I was excited to look into it at first.

Prices in MalPais where I am heading... just stared this year to really head upwards.... 2-4 yrs ago oceanfront was $50k with a house on it...not a nice house but a house none the less.

Building restrictions are insane though... unless you buddy up with the buidling inspector you can't even build a house. There are people that have been there for a few years now sitting on beautiful lots with house frames only on them

bauhaus · 08-15-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webby

Hehe .. that is *almost* kinda typical bauhaus - love the sound of that buy at $160K and outgoing at $2.2

Is you pic of that property? Good ocean view! Hilltops/views sell for very good money and generally over $100/sq meter ($1mill min/hectare).

Beachfront a lot more - and almost impossible to estimate the value of that as it's constantly increasing. One lot was offered at $9mill a few years back - had the usual Costa Rica features and 1.5 miles of beach in total. We were sitting quibbling over it - when in fact, the beachfront alone if plotted was showing a sale value of about $1 - $1.5mill for a two acre plot. There are a lot of 2 acre plots on 1.5 miles of beachfront!

Yeah man... lot was just under 4 acres... so your 1mil/hectare min ballpark...fits in pretty good there... I was just there before the rational biz minded land developers got there.. or rather the israeli investment banks in this case. The 'gentlemen' that showed me the lots was 72yrs old, wearing rubber boots, a straw hat and 1980's adidas stripped mini shorts. He probably makes $1500-2500 per year on average so his initial idea of $160k for 1/80 maybe of his mountain was still pretty good in his eyes. I never planned on selling it just seeing that view every morning when I got up. I am sure the dude died the day he got 22million.

Webby · 08-15-2006, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bauhaus

I wish I bought the lot was my point... I didn't and thats what it just sold for.. an israeli bank bought the entire mountain for 22million and parcelled it out... way outta my league good sir. Maybe not yours but for sure its outta mine.

didn't even have a road going to it... a wild quad track at best. Thats my buddy and his wife in the pic. The lot is pretty much parallel to sunset reef. Hence why I was excited to look into it at first.

Prices in MalPais where I am heading... just stared this year to really head upwards.... 2-4 yrs ago oceanfront was $50k with a house on it...not a nice house but a house none the less.

Building restrictions are insane though... unless you buddy up with the buidling inspector you can't even build a house. There are people that have been there for a few years now sitting on beautiful lots with house frames only on them

Yes.. same here - constantly saying it would have been worth every dime to buy land - and missing out for one reason or another.

Ah.. know your area!

Yes.. definately on the way up and destined to go that way for a good few years ahead. Got one of these "mountains" you mentioned not far from there - faces over the bay at Tambor, but sure would never dream of buying for $22 mill lol

Agree... it's a total shithouse to work with as far as planning is concerned - nothing is straightfoward and prob best to buddy up with however to make it happen.

Other very useful thing in property here is have a "team" - good surveyor, respected lawyer etc. They often have a wide range of contacts and can ease the way in many areas and usually know whoever in govt to help it along. Our land lawyer spends half his week on the Pacific coast - there's just too much work to do there.

Got a few corps dealing in accquiring land and one of the directors spends most of his time roaming up and down the Pacific coast speaking to everyone from farmers to realtors to find prospective deals. You prob homed in at the right place with the right person on your initial deal - a good one!

BTW... Not sure what stage it's at, Harrison Ford and a couple of others have a studio complex deal going down there. Know the contractor and seen some plans for an initial "village" to house staff and have a base - then they will add lots later. Hard to say at the moment, but may be that will create more local activity in the area and a point of interest.

Webby · 08-15-2006, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bauhaus

Yeah man... lot was just under 4 acres... so your 1mil/hectare min ballpark...fits in pretty good there... I was just there before the rational biz minded land developers got there.. or rather the israeli investment banks in this case. The 'gentlemen' that showed me the lots was 72yrs old, wearing rubber boots, a straw hat and 1980's adidas stripped mini shorts. He probably makes $1500-2500 per year on average so his initial idea of $160k for 1/80 maybe of his mountain was still pretty good in his eyes. I never planned on selling it just seeing that view every morning when I got up. I am sure the dude died the day he got 22million.

Very Costa Rica

Worst one of the lot I've ever come across was a US lady who walked straight in and laid $52 or $57 mill down for an area of land that she could have bought at a fraction of that price.

There was a ripple effect from that transaction in that every farmer/landowner then thought their land was worth a lot more and, for a while, they tried pressuring it up to silly levels, but that has kinda got back to sanity recently.

slapass · 08-15-2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleazyDream

hobby

Sounds like that is what it is. Good luck with it.

bauhaus · 08-15-2006, 02:08 PM

Its a crazy place for sure.... just happy to get outta the city.

Surely we will cross pathes while down there... Costa Rica isn't really that big. 5 trips down and I feel like a local already. Made some great friends and looking forward to raising a family while down there.

If I can make a few bucks on land deals in the process... all the better.

For the record sounds like you got in a few years before me, and all I can say is hat's off. That's a little more then the 10-60% profit ranges this thread started on. Its 200-500% for me in small buys a few years after you.

CRAZY, is all I can say. Good luck is sometimes good timing!!!!!

emthree · 08-15-2006, 02:26 PM

Land devlopment is good buisness, but there's alot of crap that can fuck you over. Especially zoning laws.

SleazyDream · 08-15-2006, 02:36 PM

as I get older i realize I only listen to people who have actually DONE something.

those that think they know shit but havn't done it themselves are usually full of shit. they don't think they are - in fact they usually talk like they know everything and look for all kinds of credible places and people to back themselves up but unless you've done it - reality is you don't know shit. you only KNOW what others who DO KNOW their shit have told you. you really don't know what the real shit was.

some good info in this post. thanks guys. there's a few people posting you DO know their shit and I'm happy for the insight

Jman · 08-15-2006, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleazyDream

as I get older i realize I only listen to people who have actually DONE something.

those that think they know shit but havn't done it themselves are usually full of shit. they don't think they are - in fact they usually talk like they know everything and look for all kinds of credible places and people to back themselves up but unless you've done it - reality is you don't know shit. you only KNOW what others who DO KNOW their shit have told you. you really don't know what the real shit was.

some good info in this post. thanks guys. there's a few people posting you DO know their shit and I'm happy for the insight

If I talk to you about masturbation, will you think i am full of shit

SleazyDream · 08-15-2006, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMan

If I talk to you about masturbation, will you think i am full of shit

only cause skufty left a surprise for you in your fleshlight

Webby · 08-15-2006, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bauhaus

Its a crazy place for sure.... just happy to get outta the city.

Surely we will cross pathes while down there... Costa Rica isn't really that big. 5 trips down and I feel like a local already. Made some great friends and looking forward to raising a family while down there.

If I can make a few bucks on land deals in the process... all the better.

For the record sounds like you got in a few years before me, and all I can say is hat's off. That's a little more then the 10-60% profit ranges this thread started on. Its 200-500% for me in small buys a few years after you.

CRAZY, is all I can say. Good luck is sometimes good timing!!!!!

Somehow I think we will meet up

It's a very small world.

BTW... Just got back from a meet - you will know this area bauhaus, - it's overlooking the Gulf on the right of Paquera. There's a plot - not massive, but decent size of 30 hectares, - good views, water blah - where we knew the farmer and he was willing to do a deal for the lot at $600K ($20K/hect) just over six months ago, but we had too much going on to listen. Just found out that plot was just sold at $3.9 mill

Sure - It's an excellent environment for "real life" and raising a family and the people are friendly and can be *very* helpful and genuinely wanting to help.

Hope to meet up with ya along the Malpais road or in a local bar

Webby · 08-15-2006, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

St Kitts is a bit more developed than the rest, so the prices are higher. However, with investment in StK, you also have the opportunity to carry a second passport as a citizen (something that isn't offered in that many others) and some of the new development commercially there (race track and cricket) make for very attractive possibilities. StK also has a very liberal ownership policy for foreigners, as opposed to some of the other countries on the list.

Sure second passports and stuff can be handy on occasions - many of the islands offer this after living there for a relatively short time - also a few Latin American countries (including Costa Rica - tho the value of passports can be kinda limited). There can also be some "cost" of being a citizen

Same with property rights - more often than not, a "foreigner" has the same rights over property ownership blah as a local born citizen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

As more and more Americans become disenchanted with the current (and future) political shenanigans in the US, I think you will see alot more expatriation by wealthy US citizens. Couple that with the rest of the world who already have no qualms about moving to newly developed areas and the potential for massive ROI is stable for years to come. Choosing a country to invest in should also involve a LOT of research into the political stability of that country. CAFTA, the treaty that's going to put a lot of Americans on the run -- think sportsbook owners etc due to the fact that extradition will start to happen -- may also leave alot of opportunities to buy property at great values and have stable poli situations. US dollars into these CAFTA countries, for those that don't already have good infrastructure will also help. Nicaragua for instance, has a telecom setup in parts of the country that rival anything else in CA, and in parts of NA. US dollars funded alot of development when there was a military presence in the area, and these systems are still in place and maintained.

Stuff like sportsbooks are.. OK to a degree, but have not much influence on the property market (least locally here), - but they do employ a fair number of locals. Kaplan's corp is prob one of the biggest here and they have invested many millions into IT and comms stuff, - but they are still peanuts in relation to other international corps who have operations (outsourcing) here. The latter do have an influence on property values - especially when troops of middle/senior management need homes.

Not sure about CAFTA

It's often a five letter word around here - they still have not agreed to sign it, but prob will after a few more changes are made. There is an "awareness" after NAFTA where that did more damage and complications than any benefit, but will happen, - probably sooner than later. There are also ongoing trading deals with other nations as well which will/does attract investment into the country.

Nico does have excellent comms and competition between the "baby Bells", good roads for the most part, but foul political stability which was OK for a while until it started getting problematic again.

The "marketplace", least as far as property goes in CR, - is from a number of countries, Canada, US, UK and Europe generally. The future market is prob going to be more from the EU and part of the reason for a new airport to handle the traffic. This will be bigger than the existing international airport and designed to handle the new Airbus aircraft (needs a longer runway) - and geared towards direct flights from the EU.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

There are a lot of places online to do research, just be wary of the dozens of realtors and agents that are in the property business. Titles and ownership in most countries are strictly regulated and doing business with a reputable agent is key.

Caribbean is slightly different - but agree, - don't ever rely on a realtor in the region. They may be 100% honest blah, but often operating without any controls or oversight. There are purported "professional associations", but in reality - they don't mean a thing - especially if you have a problem

Best professional assistance is from a good lawyer (often even harder to find) who has a track record of real estate dealing. Never accept a word out of a realtors mouth without is being confirmed by your lawyer. Also handy if he/she (your lawyer) is either obnoxiously wealthy, has a reputation to lose or comes highly recommended by someone you trust - less likely to be a problem. Even better - involve your lawyer in your project if this is possible and make him your corp legal counsel - exactly what we have done.

shahab6 · 08-15-2006, 05:04 PM

Buy more house, don't buy empty land

nAtuRaLbEautY · 08-15-2006, 07:04 PM

i think... more land... that's a better investment than a condo units, i believe.

nAtuRaLbEautY · 08-15-2006, 07:05 PM

i think... more land... that's a better investment than condos, i believe.

will76 · 08-15-2006, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike AI

Is English you native tongue?

I am sure upon following the advice of people on GFY you will be a success in the real estate business for years to come!

Actually some of us (at least I can speak for myself) do more in realestate then I do in adult. And I make a few bucks in adult too.

Major (Tom) · 08-15-2006, 07:49 PM

vacant land for the hound to roam where he may!!

Duke

SleazyDream · 08-15-2006, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeSkywalker

vacant land for the hound to roam where he may!!

Duke

it's skufty's birthday today

Chris · 08-15-2006, 09:46 PM

i manage some rentals for my parents and jesus christ it sucks ass

i swear they want to me to come over when a light bulb blows out ( no joke it has happend but the house was rented to two college girls so i didnt mind lol )

slapass · 08-15-2006, 10:05 PM

Go commercial. It is a real business environment so no need to baby the tenants. Raw land has to boom every single year to turn out ok.

MicroChick · 08-16-2006, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleazyDream

everyone tells me to buy condos and houses.

fuck that.

i hate doing what everyone else does. never made any money doing what everyone else does

Follow your inner voice. I don't like renters. They turn out to be closet house wreckers.

Lichen · 01-14-2014, 11:22 AM

buy more land

08-15-2006, 01:29 PM	#55
bauhaus Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Costa Rica Posts: 773	I wish I bought the lot was my point... I didn't and thats what it just sold for.. an israeli bank bought the entire mountain for 22million and parcelled it out... way outta my league good sir. Maybe not yours but for sure its outta mine. didn't even have a road going to it... a wild quad track at best. Thats my buddy and his wife in the pic. The lot is pretty much parallel to sunset reef. Hence why I was excited to look into it at first. Prices in MalPais where I am heading... just stared this year to really head upwards.... 2-4 yrs ago oceanfront was $50k with a house on it...not a nice house but a house none the less. Building restrictions are insane though... unless you buddy up with the buidling inspector you can't even build a house. There are people that have been there for a few years now sitting on beautiful lots with house frames only on them __________________ Insane, Color and Instant Sensation REalize the potential of dynamic coded features all in real time Vivid Php Code This is the reality of Outsoursouring SKype HolyBauhaus Deep, Deep in the Tropical Dry Rainforest.

08-15-2006, 02:08 PM	#60
bauhaus Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Costa Rica Posts: 773	Its a crazy place for sure.... just happy to get outta the city. Surely we will cross pathes while down there... Costa Rica isn't really that big. 5 trips down and I feel like a local already. Made some great friends and looking forward to raising a family while down there. If I can make a few bucks on land deals in the process... all the better. For the record sounds like you got in a few years before me, and all I can say is hat's off. That's a little more then the 10-60% profit ranges this thread started on. Its 200-500% for me in small buys a few years after you. CRAZY, is all I can say. Good luck is sometimes good timing!!!!! __________________ Insane, Color and Instant Sensation REalize the potential of dynamic coded features all in real time Vivid Php Code This is the reality of Outsoursouring SKype HolyBauhaus Deep, Deep in the Tropical Dry Rainforest.

08-15-2006, 02:26 PM	#61
emthree Dialer Kingpin Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New York Posts: 10,816	Land devlopment is good buisness, but there's alot of crap that can fuck you over. Especially zoning laws. __________________ • Sell Patches & Pills •

08-15-2006, 02:36 PM	#62
SleazyDream I'm here for SPORT Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phone # (401) 285-0696 Posts: 41,470	as I get older i realize I only listen to people who have actually DONE something. those that think they know shit but havn't done it themselves are usually full of shit. they don't think they are - in fact they usually talk like they know everything and look for all kinds of credible places and people to back themselves up but unless you've done it - reality is you don't know shit. you only KNOW what others who DO KNOW their shit have told you. you really don't know what the real shit was. some good info in this post. thanks guys. there's a few people posting you DO know their shit and I'm happy for the insight __________________ This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog! Now read without the word dog.

08-15-2006, 07:04 PM	#68
nAtuRaLbEautY Confirmed User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,107	i think... more land... that's a better investment than a condo units, i believe. __________________ Prime Outsourcing│offshore solutions│manual labor│staff leasing│full time employees starting at $695.00/month=managed and dedicated \| icq: 309570461 \| live chat

08-15-2006, 05:04 PM	#67
shahab6 So Fucking Banned Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Los angeles Posts: 1,614	Buy more house, don't buy empty land

08-15-2006, 07:05 PM	#69
nAtuRaLbEautY Confirmed User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,107	i think... more land... that's a better investment than condos, i believe. __________________ Prime Outsourcing│offshore solutions│manual labor│staff leasing│full time employees starting at $695.00/month=managed and dedicated \| icq: 309570461 \| live chat

08-15-2006, 07:49 PM	#71
Major (Tom) Anti Communist Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Null Posts: 29,831	vacant land for the hound to roam where he may!! Duke __________________ My mother said, to get things done You'd better not mess with Major Tom

08-15-2006, 09:46 PM	#73
Chris Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: icq: 71462500 Skype: Jupzchris Posts: 27,880	i manage some rentals for my parents and jesus christ it sucks ass i swear they want to me to come over when a light bulb blows out ( no joke it has happend but the house was rented to two college girls so i didnt mind lol ) __________________ [email protected]

08-15-2006, 10:05 PM	#74
slapass Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 14,622	Go commercial. It is a real business environment so no need to baby the tenants. Raw land has to boom every single year to turn out ok.

01-14-2014, 11:22 AM	#76
Lichen Tube Master Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,640	buy more land