Grapesoda

I've been following the post of Dean's about photography. some input for the misinformed or possibly confused about camera RAW, Photoshop & photography.

when images are captured there are no curves applied. images from the camera without curves are murky B&W, soft and fuzzy. the thumbnails you see in the LCD or in the conversion software are only suggestions of the curves that can be applied. no WB, contrast, saturation, sharpness has been applied . . AND you will have some latitude with exposure however RAW is the not the magic bullet for 'blowing the exposure' . . shooting in JPG, the 'in camera processor' applies the curves you selected as it converts (develps) the image from RAW to JPG.

in the digital world we think of our cameras a 'positive and not negative' film . . the ccd/cmos of our cameras don't have the latitude of negative film yet so we must watch our contrast ratio . . I think high quality film will do 11 stops and 'slides' with do a bit less than 5 if I remember correctly . . with the difference being WB, we don't have to select the films or use filters (too often) to get correct colors like we did 6-8 years ago . . so our job as shooters is to either select or create situations the camera will accept and then capture them . . no big deal really if yer interested in doing so, and are willing to spend the time to learn, and to invest in the effort at time of capture to 'grab' the correct exposure with proper contract rations that will produce an image without 'blown high lights with lack of detail' or 'noisy dark shadows with lack of information'.

after the captures are completed it's time to select the 'appropriate curves' in the RAW converter and spit the files out . . at this time the editor or photographer will select the WB, tones, contrast, sharpness etc with just a bit of exposure latitude as I've mentioned . . of choice . . and this is the key to the process, "of choice" . . your choices might not be Deans choices. than some 'shop' to sweeten the image a touch . . just for fun

now about Dean and his shooting . . first thing is this: if Dean tells you he shooting 2-3 days a week don't suppose he's not working on his photography the other 4-5 days. all the serious photographers I know work 60-100 hrs a week, don't drink excessively or use drugs.

Dean spends hours and hours researching locations, researching software, researching lighting equipment, colors and fabrics, looking at glamour hair and makeup, spends hrs and hrs in post learning to achieve what his eyes tell him he needs to see. I'm very sure that the reference thumbs Deans sees on the LCD are very close to what he converts in RAW, within reason . . Dean is a very accurate shooter and has the time to set his shots correctly . so then what is Dean doing in RAW and then Photoshop? my educated, experienced guess is minor stuff that you wouldn't even notice, pushing a color saturation here or there for fun, messing around with a highlight or two . . fixing a few minor errors, if any (we all make the occasional mistake) in the past Dean has gone a bit overboard on cleaning the approach to the eyes however he's admitted that on this forum so it's no secret . . much of the 'Photoshop bashing' is in reality the quality of lite & glass that Dean is using . . different lite qualities affect skin differently and lens selection . . . glass and distance has a large effect on skin and contrast as well as a number of other factors like color and bokeh . . you guys are so used to seeing very low quality 'filthy whore lighting/photography' you aren't able to understand the effects of different lite modifiers, combinations of lite modifiers and glass on skin so you immediately cry 'Photoshop' and it's simply not true . . (wanna burn down the library so it never happens again?)

we all learn by making mistakes. unlike a cook who gets to eat theirs or a Dr who buries theirs. you see Deans on GFY. I've watched Dean's work since 2003 and I see major improvements and I know Dean works long hrs to get them . . if you want Dean's secrets just spend about 100 hrs a week figuring it out . . it's all there right in front of your eyes. he's not using any secret cameras or lenses or lights or secret software . . all the gear and software he uses is readily available right 'over the counter' at any vendor or any online retailer. -bmb

Aneros Josh

Were people complaining about his photos? I love both of your guys' stuff...amazing!

Dirty F

I complain about his pics. They bore the fuck out of me and yes, they look photoshopped like hell. I rather see a pic of nice chick shot with a 20 dollar cam than his non human realdolls.

But thats just me. I know lots of people enjoy his work. And ofcourse he is a superb photographer.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Photography is over rated.

Seriously it's some of the simplist shit I have ever undertaken that pay's alot more than sitting infront of a machine pounding out designs for bullshit money.

Creating content is like printing you're own money.
It's that simple.

A nuance of creativity is all that is needed if that.

Fuck all if you are new to photography just shoot the shit in auto settings.
Even if it suck's it still sell's. All this talk about Fstop, Bracketing, RAW Format, Lens/Glass choices is all complete shit to make it sound difficult.

Fact is, it's the easieist stupid shit around to make money from nothing.

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baddog

which I guess explains why you are rolling in the cash, huh?

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

You can sit and guess what I am up to and been doing.
I am still in the game and doing better than ever.

Ever since staying far away from freaks and showboat gossip tweakers like you I been doing better.

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wdsguy

So i guess you didn't get evicted.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

No I did not.
Dispite how much some of you folks dispise me for whatever reason you think is exploitable to look better than me, I got some really good and strong friends in this biz that I have had for years and years that know talent when they see it

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Trixxxia

Glad to hear things got better for you.

Anya

I've always liked you, Alien, but I have to disagree with you here. Having worked with different photographers over the years, and having shot a lot of stuff myself, your comment is just wrong, IMO.
Owning a camera does not a photographer make, my dear. Lotta guys seem to think it does, but it takes a fair amount of time invested to become actually skilled in the 'art'.

Btw, glad to hear you're doing ok.

Anya

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ServerGenius

He didn't say that......he said even if you suck donkey balls at photography
you still can shoot content and sell it to make money......he's right

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Anya - Well when I got into taking photo's and such I went into it with the belief that it is very very complicated. IMO it's not complicated.

Not as complicated as other things I have done that is for sure and I am not saying that experience does not appreciate in an art form.

No one pick's up a guitar and is suddenly good at it, no one buy's photoshop and bang they are an ace designer. Creative process and know how only get's better with experience. That's it, thats all. However to believe that some things are insanely complicated and never take the challenge is a definate admission of most anyones failure.

I started out with a cheap SONY Cybershot 1 chip camara with 3.2 Megapixels and worked it to the bone. Hell even posted photos and got complimented well.

Now I got 2 Camara's and two HD Video Camara's and a great set of lights.
Did it get more complicated? NO, it got easier.

In all honesty Photography is over rated in complexity the technology today can make the worst of us the best, the most untalented a beam of inspiration. The hardest part was saying fuck it, I am gonna do this and fuck everyone else that has a doubt.

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Gary_TLX

I love how some people think producing content and profiting from it is so easy. Fact is that if 10 people get involved in content production 9 will fail within the first year. This alone proves that it's not that easy at all.

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Just another note. I am not here on GFY much anymore.

The place is to negative, surrounded by people that do nothing but sideline bullshit that fill's the most determined soul to have doubt.

You can't do this, you can't do that, did you see this, he is doing it all wrong, you are a fuck up, you suck, you are never going to be anything etc...
Thats all that happens here all the while I began to believe everything was to complicated to take on...

Its all bullshit and I got tired of it finally after years and years of self rightious nobodies screaming about what they got and how much of an idiot I am...

All I can say is fuck all you...

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

In short GFY was closing my eye's and killing me inside.

I am threw with it.

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Anya

SG, I was commenting on a particular part of his post, but thanks for your input. And sure, even really bad content can sell because someone out there will buy it. My point was, it takes a hell of a lot more than a 'nuance of creativity', etc., etc.

Anya

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ServerGenius

You're 100% right I can prove that point myself

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ServerGenius

You're 100% right I can prove that point myself I can fuck a photo in auto settings without any effort at all

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Anya

All right, sweetheart Take care & be safe

Anya

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Anya

hehe you're cute, SG



Anya

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Grapesoda

actually this is a very positive thread that you turned in to negitive drama . . which is a real shame becuase I had never heard dean say anything except good stuff about yer efforts . .

Vasago Reno

AlienQ - what you say is correct regarding almost idiot being able to shoot reasonably good stuff on auto setting and make a buck off it. Seen it happen many, many...many times over the years.

However, guys like Dean and other advanced photographers don't intentionally make it sound complicated on purpose to bluff others into thinking its too complex to get into - but rather, they talk about it from the perspective of advanced techniques at THEIR level ... not the novice (also known as GWC...guy with camera).

Some of us more advanced shooters take the extra time, effort and care to tweak images both in-cam and in pshop because...we take pride in turning out the best images possible within the limitations of our equipment. This is what gets us in to the more advanced discussions - beyond the auto-setting level.

Sure, adequate and mediocre quality sells to a market that isn't too discerning and only wants a quick visual to rub one out to. But not all photographers pander to that specific demographic. Some of us are formally trained...with years of experience in our craft and trade. And I see no point in 'dumbing down' comments just to avoid people who label it as being unnecessarily complicated.

Vasago Reno

BTW - Wanton...that was an excellent post you made above to start the thread with. Very insightful, and you did a great job of detailing just how much time, effort and work goes in to the average day of a quality photographer.

Ansel Adams once said, "Many photos are looked at...but seldom looked in to."

To say, very few people outside of other professional photographers fully realize or appreciate how much work is involved in creating high quality images. They see the finished product without thinking about what it took to create the illustration. I'm sure we're all guilty of that at times, even those of us who make a living behind the lens.

But you put together an eloquent descrip of what some of us go through on a daily basis.

abyss_al

true photography is an art. it's a talent or 'gift' if you will... not about nonsense hours behind photoshop etc etc... it's what the eye can see and capture that others cannot. if i have to spend more than a minute on PS on a shot, i close it and never work on that shot again.

minor touchups and resizing is the maximum time i send behind the comuter... i'd rather spend all day shooting, enjoying what i love to do, then sit there for hours trying to pretty up a whatever shot.

just my

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Grapesoda

I know a few guys that swear sucking cock is the only way to go . . I'll just go with what I'm okay with . . BTW who said anything about spending hrs? I usually spend about 30 sec to a minute to clean and resize a shot for this forum, if even that long . . why would dean be spending more than that? if you can't devote the time and energy into shooting pro glamour that's fine . . however at least have the common courtesy to respect those that are willing to devote their time and energy into making a superior product for a high quality content site. it's very easy to talk smack and very difficult to produce quaity . . that's my