Hazlewood

hey how is MAnila treating you? Cheap? Efficient?

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Hazlewood

hey how is MAnila treating you? Cheap? Efficient?

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Skype: hazegsm

tony286

No I said I didn't want to make myself crazy, also Im a very small fish in the big picture. If you guys can make change your gods in my eyes.When I worked in mainstream I ran the affiliate program, my biggest monthly fight was with the ceo who didnt want pay the affiliates what they were owed. Getting them paid was a monthly fight and he would tell me you think Amazon pays their affiliates?? I would argue you dont pay them they dont send traffic,we are screwed and its wrong.I made deals expecting you to do the right thing So I know this is not only a adult problem.

tony286

No I said I didn't want to make myself crazy, also Im a very small fish in the big picture. If you guys can make change your gods in my eyes.When I worked in mainstream I ran the affiliate program, my biggest monthly fight was with the ceo who didnt want pay the affiliates what they were owed. Getting them paid was a monthly fight and he would tell me you think Amazon pays their affiliates?? I would argue you dont pay them they dont send traffic,we are screwed and its wrong.I made deals expecting you to do the right thing So I know this is not only a adult problem.

RawAlex

This would be the "paper over the truth" thread. Your payouts are going up! Way up... the chance of a sale, well... ;)

Damian_Maxcash

Again - you are being naive - or I expect deliberately playing dumb....

How much do you think they have lost - how much of that has been recouped by the affiliates that have signed up because of this drama? - we have all been to the Pimpdog school of promotion.

It wont register as a blip on the AFF income charts.

I think people should stop, remember who Will is and what he does - do a search for Clickcash on here and then ask yourself what his motives are.....

'Clickcash ripped me off' will show some interesting results in the search as well - perhaps you you concentrate on putting your own house in order Will

RawAlex

Damien, that is the standard answer... everyone is scamming, so shut up about scamming?

Nice.

RawAlex

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzt... sorry, you lose, failure to read all of the data. Please look at where the hits go:

# mgmt.zangocash.com - 76%
# partner.zangocash.com - 10%
# zangocash.com - 7%
# static.zangocash.com - 4%
# prompt.zangocash.com - 2%
# public.zangocash.com - 1%

Most of it is to people either adding or removing ads from the system, and managing their accounts, not from new zanogcash partners, and not from new installs.

Sorry, you lose.

Damian_Maxcash

I was questioning Will's motive for this whole thing.....

As an aside I suggest that Will may be better off trying to improve the reputation of the company he works with than trying to put down a competitor.

If anyone is being sleazy its Will....

AmateurWealth

this thread is fucking hilarious....you pissants have no idea what making real $$ takes.....get those gallery submissions ready.

Lars pisses away more money on auto insurance than 99% of you make in a year.....

you keep fighting the good fight.....you will be the first ones asking "would you like fries with that?"

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tony286

Im not a pussy, I couldnt do much about a processor fucking me out of 13 grand in FL . How am I going to fight some password trading fuck in Holland? Im not justifying anything, Im saying how can you be surprised that it happens.

Tempest

Well damn.. Having pimpledog give you props is quite the accomplishment Lars.

will76

for one that looks like it would be dark jedi's site as it looks like shit.

It's funny you think you made a point here, trying the " you are only making it worse by what you are doing" approach.

I guess you missed the other posts i made where i replied to other idiots like you saying the same shit. Hey if more people buy from zango, fine with me. I have another company to add to the list to not do business with. It doesn't hurt me if I drive the keyword prices up from .03 a click to $3.00 a click that is just less profit the assholes make who are buying keywords from zango.

I can't make everyone stop and as long as 1 person is doing it they will be someone to steal my traffic. I understand that. It's nice to see what side of the fence everyone sits on and this has been great for find that out. The thing that hurts us the most is the people who are doing the installs, not the idiots buying traffic from them.

So thanks for the info, your post alerted me to one more company to stay away from and you let me know that not only is AFF losing money from affiliates dropping them becuase of them using adware but the cost for them to use adware just went up... costing them more money there too.

so whos fake nic are you ?

__________________
ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

jayeff

Your agenda is obvious, but just in case anyone is foolish enough to buy into it:

1. Business Week reported an estimate of the income of scumware companies at $2 billion per year. That figure by itself is 40% of the most often-quoted estimates of the value of online porn and that is only middlemen's profit. The actual value of the diverted traffic is much higher. Sure the numbers include mainstream income and estimates are only estimates. But anyone who really believes that this is a minor issue is a fool.
2. Any sponsor who is opposed to this issue would be crazy not to use that to gain some positive PR. On the other hand, you have to question how much self-respect anyone can have who knowingly does business with anyone who has publicly admitted to using scumware to divert their traffic.
3. "Have used" is very relevant in your comment that "Some of the largest and most recognized mainstream and real word companies use or have used Zango". Companies which dwarf AFF/cams.com have dropped their association with scumware after deciding that association was more damaging than productive.
4. People here are not "bitching" now for the first time, nor probably the last, nor is anti-scumware sentiment confined to this board. Precisely because of brushes with the law and complaints on and off the 'net, Zango and others like them are constantly changing the way they work in an attempt to stay one step ahead of the law. They most certainly have not been able to go on doing exactly what they always have, as you imply.

This industry has major sponsors using scumware and allowing scumware to be used to divert traffic away from their own and other sponsors' affiliates. On what planet should that be acceptable to anyone? Sheep? The only sheep here are those still doing business with people who are to all practical intents and purposes, stealing from them.

TrafficHog

That means more people are bidding on urls and more pops will be coming

DTK

Man, the shit you spew keeps getting weaker and weaker

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RawAlex

To an extent, I am sure that some idiots have gone in and bid up certain terms ignorantly, making Zango more money.

My suspicion is more like: A whole bunch of webmasters signed up for Zango ads part so they could see how much the bids were. Meantime, the sponsors and the people who were using Zango are in the there madly pulling their original links, replacing them with disposible affiliate accounts, and reviewing at least to an extent what they are truly bidding on rather than just letting Zango do it for them.

Watch the traffic drop down as the filter people get to work getting surfers to remove this asterixware from their systems.

will76

Yes zango does pop up.But not what you would expect.



They are targeting the word hotel. Good old zango, giving their "members" alternatives when they are "searching" for something.

I am sure the people going to the paris hilton site wanted that alternative pop up on where they could get a hotel room.

EDIT: actually i take that back looking at the listings on that site, it does look like they are targeting your traffic directly.

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TrafficHog

True... True...

BlackCrayon

i think the industry would be helped by doing away with people who want all that. i don't want parties, i don't want 'bonus days', i don't want free hosting. hell i'll get my own content if i have to. and i used to make good money making only 15 bucks per sale back in the day.

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Bake

Hey Lars can you read this thread and reply
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=670354

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will76

Damian, put the beer down and think for a second. Do you honestly, seriously think that people have signed up to AFF because they read post(s) here where everyone is saying that AFF steals from it's affiliates and other affiliates and then AFF admits to it. I could see a whole bunch of people on the fence, trying to decide which sponsor to use, and when they found out that AFF buys traffic from adware, and steals from everyone, that was all the needed to know, they went and signed up right away,

Do you really believe this? And I am naive, if that is true what the hell does that make you?

As far as the clickcash comments, i have no control over them and if you want to bash them then go ahead but you might want to start your own thread. I don't think you are going to be able to divert the attention from AFF in this one so it wont be effective posting about it here.

__________________
ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

Damian_Maxcash

Why?

He works full time with a competitor and now he has made it business to bitch about a business rival.

If this was Pimpdog knocking Adult.com or Shemp pissing on TheHun what would you call it?

Its especially galling when the company he works with HAVE been screwing affiliates for nearly a decade.

Yep - The more I think about it the sleazier it sounds.....

will76

Yeap that was just yet another attempt with the " you are doing more harm then good by talking about this". bullshit. They will keep trying to discourage us to get us to shut up. It cycles, you get the trying to justify it commments, then the insult comments, then the you are doing more harm then good comments, then back to the trying to justify it...

You guys need to dig deeper, that one is getting old. No one is buying that because of this, webmasters are flocking to signup to zangocash to make their .40 an install (only from us traffic and shit from basically the rest of the world ) just so these people can shoot themselves in the foot and lose sales from that traffic to the rest of their sponsors.

__________________
ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

will76

1. You are questioning my motives? sorry somewhere reading the naive comments i must have missed your hidden message. Since you are questioning my motives can you please let me know what you think my motives are ?

2. How am i being sleazy for replying to bullshit that lars is saying. Did I start this thread. If lars would keep his mouth shut people wouldn't be replying to him so much. FYI, and you can ask your buddy lars, I was adding AFF to a new project I am working on but have since pulled them because of their stand on using "adware". I feel the same for any company. You must have only been reading the AFF threads, apparently you haven't seen me post about the other companies who are doing this.

I have also signed up to datinggold and imlive because of them coming out against it.

__________________
ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

will76

you are pretty fucking hilarious. In the words of damien, I think you are being naive.

I am pretty sure i make more then all of lar's cars combined muchless his insurance, but you keep laughing and thinking no one cares.

that is why everyone even AFF and Zango are talking about it, because no one cares. Typicall when no one cares they don't have 10 threads about it on the front page at all times.. but glad we made you laugh. it was mutual.

__________________
ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

MarkMan

good thread

will76

How to spin101.

1. Try to justify it
- Everyone else is doing it.
- It is such a small amount it is not hurting you.
- We were forced to do it by our competitors.
- It's legal.

2. Try to make people think their efforts are doing more harm then good.
- You are causing more people to signup so you are making it worse.
- MOre people are signing up to AFF now because of the publicity
- We have increased payouts " and our affiliates make more then ever"

3. Try to make people think no one cares.
- No one here cares
- The companies you are mentiong don't care.
- You traffic is insignificant to them you can't make a difference.

4. Try to insult them.
- None of you make any money.
- You are all sheep. etc....

Damien you have just added a new one to the list:

5. Attack the credibility of the poster instead of the issue at hand.
- but the company you advertise screws people too so what you say can't be true, you must have an agenda.


Now Damien we know you were not smart enough to come up with this and bet anything that someone is feeding you this shit through icq and i have a few ideas who it might be.

__________________
ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

Damian_Maxcash

lol - actually I'm just sober for once - you would surprised what I can come up with all on my own without a drink inside me

Paul Markham

Time to put this back to the top.

So lets have some positive news on what we do to combat scumware, 95% of this thread is just bitching.

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Paul Markham

I see your point. But is it possible to attract new affiliates, which will probably be less affective than the existing, and pay them more than the existing?

For instance. I ran the idea past a few people of putting up the rev share on EXTRA sales over last months sales. So for a newbie every sale would be "Extra" would this piss off the existing affiliates?

Would existing affiliates be pissed off if I offered 75% to only New Affiliates? This is the problem, to get new affiliates you have to offer the earth, try only giving it to new affiliates and see how far you get.

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crockett

So in other words you think to make money in adult you have to steal? That says a lot about your program..

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rigrunner

wow...just wow.

This thread is a real shock....

Not stealing from affs? I've got the zippedsites cam script running on an extra domain i have, obviously cams is in there... so i install zango, see what the hype is, first few times i cant get to my domain.
when i do, i find that my cam links go to pages which dont carry my ref.
then there's popups from cams.com, sexsearch, privatefeeds etc etc...
i feel disappointed that i see cams.com links changing, but i give you guys the benefit of the doubt, presume its an affiliate buying...
then your banner appears in the toolbar...

WTF? You're so up Zango's ass it's unreal...

And it's not so clear that the ads are from Zango, there's a bar at the bottom of the pages... surfers look at tits not down by the status bar...

It's a shame because I really liked the cams.com progam, i recommended it to friends etc..Even floated it as my sig here.

Now I don't want to touch it. The stealing will catch up to you, and for every piece of scumware you support another one will open up and to the same thing...extorting you and your business again and again. It's bullshit.

Instead of spending thousands supporting this shit and fucking over your affs, spend thousands on your legal teams to get this crap and others like it, shut down.

I realise that I'm no big fish in the cams pond, not at all... but Lars you were one of my heroes in the biz, pushing good business, good networking and you really knew how to please both the webmasters and the surfers.

what the fuck happened?

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SpeakEasy

You obviously road the short bus to school.

AmateurWealth

i didnt say that...what i am saying is you idiots dont konw how to go about making change....you think bitching o this forum calling out all the big programs will do it and all it is doing is getting them more traffic....

but i am just pointing out the obvious GFY mentality....lowest common denominator...

so that doesnt really say shit about my program now does it smart guy?

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jayeff

Every new industry sees people preying on others. It's anything but original and it's not even hard to do, because everyone is too busy making money for most to care much if someone is creaming a bit off the top. Thousands of people have made a lot of short-term money that way in everything from oil to banking, but you are a fool if you put such people up on a pedestal.

Because where did they all go?

Look at any of those once-new industries and you will find only a handful of names which can be traced back to the beginning. And those who survived, sometimes going on to make money which makes their early profits look like peanuts, are - without exception - those who cleaned up their acts.

That is inevitable, because once the pickings from the little guys are no longer enough, the vultures turn on each other. It is never long after that before they become the ones demanding change and of course, they have the power to make it happen.

And that is what makes scumware like Zango different from shaving and all the rest of the half-assed ways some sponsors have used to boost their legitimate income. Most of the emphasis in these threads has been on the impact on affiliates, but the reality is that scumware has a much greater impact on sponsors themselves. Anyone willing to sign a check can effectively buy a chunk of someone else's traffic, with - providing the bid prices don't get out of control - virtually no risk. That isn't competition: it's suicide.

It has taken ten years for online porn to claim an estimated 5% of the "adult entertainment" market. We still don't have a single company worth a fraction of what non-porn businesses, online and bricks-and-mortar, change hands for almost daily. Success in this business is measured in spending a few thousand dollars buying free drinks and bragging about a new car or house. Put a lot of so-called businessmen from this industry in an office with their lawyers or accountants and you can bet that many don't have a clue what they are being told.

That's the real perspective of online porn, not how much Lars may spend on his car insurance. If you think about the built-in appeal of what we are selling and the fact that we have a global reach, it should be obvious that the smart operators are not the ones who look inwards, trying to cut a bigger slice of the existing pie. The really smart people are those who recognize the true potential of this business and want a piece of that. Zango and the like have no place in that future.

Big John

One of the more interesting points raised in these threads other than the various companies stealing traffic etc is how many people don't seem to have a problem with the use of scumware per se. Seems to be an awful lot of people worried about the lack of sale tracking only and not the fact that a handful of bottom feeding adult companies are using Zango and similar and thus supporting those companies and tactics.

Again though it goes back to the short-sightedness of so many people in porn, no matter what their turnover and it will eventually bite them in the ass. I'd go as far as to say it has already started to do so.

My only 2c in this thread as people like Jayeff and Will make far better points than I could. Many people could learn a lot from the content of many of Jayeffs posts especially.

Oh - and a final point for the handful that seem confused. Stop pretending that most Internet users have the intelligence to realise the crap they're installing. I would happily take a very large wager that 90%+ (probably much higher) of Zango 'users' are completely unaware of the shit they have installed on their PC and would not have done so had they realised.

__________________

The Ghost

One of the more interesting statements in this thread deals with the users of zango being more likely to purchase porn, or at least at purchase at a much high percentage than non zango users.

I can see the totally see logic of this, but does anyone have any direct data to support this?

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Troels

And I'm certain I control more traffic and signups than your program.

You will get fuck all, and I'm very close to putting your program on a shared shitlist along with your buddies.

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DarkJedi

Can anyone please post cliff notes for this thread?

crockett

Oh yea..I'd say it says a lot about your program.. your posts speak volumes.

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u-Bob

1. AFF does business with spyware companies.
2. Lars admits AFF does business with spyware companies (he prefers to call them "adware" companies) such as Zango.
3. People start dropping AFF.
4. Lars tries to do some damage control by calling people names.

mortenb

There are at least two facts supporting the theory:

1. Newbie surfers are more likely to buy porn, since they don't know where to get it for free online. The same surfers have no experience with spyware and would therefor not now how to remove it. They will probably also only use one browser window at a time - the one on top. Guess who just popped a window on top of the window containing your affiliate id.

2. Why would the sponsor companies continue to use spyware if they weren't making money. Lars said it himself, he is taking something like 0.5% of the traffic and he is making enough off of it to raise payouts more than 1%. It is anyones guess as to how much more he is making off of the surfers he has stolen from us, but it must be substantial for him to act the way he is doing.


It's hard to show some hard data, since only the sponsors supporting spyware would have access to the data and I don't think they are about to give it to us.

will76

I know you what you mean, as i feel the same way.

The company he owns makes over 100 million dollars a year. People need to read that two or three times to let it sink in. But yet they don't want to spend money to protect their trademark on an open shut case. If they sued zango because of trademark infringment the problem would be solved. No one would be able to buy their keywords on zango, no one not even sexsearch. Then they wouldn't have to be "forced" into doing it. The have a team of lawyers working for them already.

This tells me they don't want to stop doing it and the " it cost too much to protect our trademark" is just one more excuse from them why they dont want to stop buying scumware traffic.

__________________
ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

will76

It says an idiot is running it.

Get them more traffic. So you think AFF is getting more traffic because of these post. Figures you would, i've heard several times that your program is a Pimpdog owned company, so figures you would think bad press = money.

I love the people who tell you that you are doing something the wrong way but they never have any suggestions of their own on the "right way" to do it. Just as bad as the "told you so" people that are always right because they wait till after something happens to give their opinion on it.

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scottybuzz

this is 2006 people. life aint so easy for money online anymore. i love it how lars has side stepped you all.

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will76

Do zango users more likely to buy porn then non zango users?

Well considering I link to the signup page for my sponsors, my traffic only triggers the zango pop up page when the surfer is going to the signup page, so that quality of traffic is much higher then surfers who hit the front page of my site.

I think they are stealing better quality traffic. Just a little something else to take into consideration. Let's say zango only accounts for 2% of my traffic but if they are taking the highest quality traffic i think it is only logical to figure they are taking more then 2% of my sales.

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mortenb

I guess it boils down to the fact that I want control of my traffic. I don't want anyone to steal/redirect my traffic in any way - even when they think they can justify it by raising their payouts. My traffic is mine - until I choose to send it to someone else.

will76

but it is a pop up page the surfer could always close it

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mortenb

Lets just hire someone to sit around all day and check sponsor sites for spyware. All they would need is a bunch of cheap computers and some time to learn what to look for. Then we could out all of them and Lars wouldn't feel alone anymore. I bet we could even get some of the straight shooting sponsors to pay for it, in return for some good PR on the page we out the bad guys on.