_My ZANGO Sponsor list

[OzMan]

Do any of your current Sponsors support Adware like Zango? At least one probably does, depending on your particular definition of "support". Whether you think adware companies like Zango are the future of contextual advertising or the biggest evil on the Net, all of us are affected in some way.

Companies like AFF and SexSearch appear to be the biggest supporters of Zango in Adult due to their apparent widespread targetting of competitive sites that don't target them as well as general adult keywords. This tends to invalidate the already dubious "I better rape your sister before someone else does" or "just protecting our sites" lines of reasoning.

They are however far from the only Adult companies who choose to associate themselves with Zango. I downloaded Zango a few days ago and have spent some time playing with it. I suggest you do the same if you wish to quickly confirm most or all of what I have experienced.

Sometimes it's hard to determine whether it is the Sponsor or an affiliate doing it due to Sponsors using affiliate ids or affiliates attempting to hide cookies.

So far it seems there are three main areas of involvement a Sponsor can have with Zango:

(1)ZANGO POPUP WINDOWS

Bidding on popup windows themselves or allowing affiliates to do so. These steal sales by replacing cookies and/or putting a different url in front of the surfer of either the same site or a competitor.

This can be broken down into degrees of nastiness. The worst being Companies who target other Sponsors who don't target them and the "best" being those Sponsors who just bid on their own site name to protect it, although the end result is still the same as regards the Webmaster, that is, a lost sale.


(2)ZANGO TOOLBAR LISTINGS

Bidding on Zango toolbar tabs themselves or allowing affiliates to do so. Though much less obtrusive than a popup, they do still steal your traffic by tempting the surfer with relevent links to leave your site by.


(3)ZANGO SEARCH ENGINE LISTINGS

Bidding on results in Zango's search engine themselves or allowing affiliates to do so. Zango and other adware feeds many PPC search engines with its stolen traffic. When a user types a search into the Zango toolbar or even into the browser window, the search is redirected to http://resultsmaster.com which is Zango's fake search engine. So if you have good organic SERP's or even Adwords listings, the surfer will never see them. Zango consolidates these various PPC listings into one results page branded under Zango and any surfer will no doubt see a direct connection between Zango and the results shown.

Seeing a listing on the Zango search engine page does not necessarily mean that a Sponsor or Affiliate deliberately supports Zango. They may not be aware that some of the traffic is coming from Zango. The fact remains that they are supporting Zango by accepting Adware traffic that has been laundered thru' a PPC SE and if they continue to do so or allow their Affiliates to do so after seeing their results on http://resultsmaster.com when doing searches, then that support becomes deliberate.

Since there is currently no detailed list of Adult Sponsors who support Zango I've started my own. I've broken down the Adult Companies I have seen so far in the last few days on Zango into the three categories as outlined above. Some Sponsors appear in more than one category. I haven't included the many Mainstream companies that attempt to steal traffic from Adult searches.

Like I said earlier, you don't have to take my word for it and don't ask me to produce screenshots/video for every url listed. Install Zango and verify it yourself or at least look for your Sponsor/site at http://resultsmaster.com


(1)ZANGO POPUP WINDOWS

Adultcash.com
AdultFriendfinder.com
Cams.com
Cybererotica.com
Ifriends.com
SexBankRoll.com
SexSearch.com
Webcams.com

(2)ZANGO TOOLBAR LISTINGS

AdamEve.com
Adultcash.com
AdultFriendfinder.com
Cams.com
Cybererotica.com
Freepornlessons.com
HornyMatches.com
Ifriends.com
SexBankRoll.com
SexSearch.com
TheBestporn.com
Webcams.com

(3)ZANGO SEARCH ENGINE LISTINGS

Adultcash.com
AdultFriendfinder.com
AdultPaymaster.com
Backdoorcash.com
Camcruisers.com
Cams.com
Cybererotica.com
Freepornlessons.com
HornyMatches.com
Ifriends.com
Iwantu.com
Mtree.com
PussyCash.com
QuickBuck.com
SexBankRoll.com
SexSearch.com
TrafficCashGold.com
Wegcash.com

[jimthefiend]

Will is NOT going to be happy.

[marko13]

this thread will be very good.... i think this zango thread will get most replies...

[jimthefiend]

Use the search term "webcams" then go about halfway down the results page.

:D

[TheSwed]

thanks...that's a great list of sponsors to avoid

[jimthefiend]

I strongly suggest we all band together and cease sending traffic to Ifriends.

[will76]

Originally Posted by jimthefiend

I strongly suggest we all band together and cease sending traffic to Ifriends.

LOL "we" LOL

Jimmie you never sent traffic 1 day in your life.


Hey Jimmie, and if everyone stops sending traffic to Ifriends, this hurts me how... Damn you are one clueless hairy mofo.

[will76]

Originally Posted by OzMan

Do any of your current Sponsors support Adware like Zango? At least one probably does, depending on your particular definition of "support". Whether you think adware companies like Zango are the future of contextual advertising or the biggest evil on the Net, all of us are affected in some way.

Companies like AFF and SexSearch appear to be the biggest supporters of Zango in Adult due to their apparent widespread targetting of competitive sites that don't target them as well as general adult keywords. This tends to invalidate the already dubious "I better rape your sister before someone else does" or "just protecting our sites" lines of reasoning.

They are however far from the only Adult companies who choose to associate themselves with Zango. I downloaded Zango a few days ago and have spent some time playing with it. I suggest you do the same if you wish to quickly confirm most or all of what I have experienced.

Sometimes it's hard to determine whether it is the Sponsor or an affiliate doing it due to Sponsors using affiliate ids or affiliates attempting to hide cookies.

So far it seems there are three main areas of involvement a Sponsor can have with Zango:

(1)ZANGO POPUP WINDOWS

Bidding on popup windows themselves or allowing affiliates to do so. These steal sales by replacing cookies and/or putting a different url in front of the surfer of either the same site or a competitor.

This can be broken down into degrees of nastiness. The worst being Companies who target other Sponsors who don't target them and the "best" being those Sponsors who just bid on their own site name to protect it, although the end result is still the same as regards the Webmaster, that is, a lost sale.


(2)ZANGO TOOLBAR LISTINGS

Bidding on Zango toolbar tabs themselves or allowing affiliates to do so. Though much less obtrusive than a popup, they do still steal your traffic by tempting the surfer with relevent links to leave your site by.


(3)ZANGO SEARCH ENGINE LISTINGS

Bidding on results in Zango's search engine themselves or allowing affiliates to do so. Zango and other adware feeds many PPC search engines with its stolen traffic. When a user types a search into the Zango toolbar or even into the browser window, the search is redirected to http://resultsmaster.com which is Zango's fake search engine. So if you have good organic SERP's or even Adwords listings, the surfer will never see them. Zango consolidates these various PPC listings into one results page branded under Zango and any surfer will no doubt see a direct connection between Zango and the results shown.

Seeing a listing on the Zango search engine page does not necessarily mean that a Sponsor or Affiliate deliberately supports Zango. They may not be aware that some of the traffic is coming from Zango. The fact remains that they are supporting Zango by accepting Adware traffic that has been laundered thru' a PPC SE and if they continue to do so or allow their Affiliates to do so after seeing their results on http://resultsmaster.com when doing searches, then that support becomes deliberate.

Since there is currently no detailed list of Adult Sponsors who support Zango I've started my own. I've broken down the Adult Companies I have seen so far in the last few days on Zango into the three categories as outlined above. Some Sponsors appear in more than one category. I haven't included the many Mainstream companies that attempt to steal traffic from Adult searches.

Like I said earlier, you don't have to take my word for it and don't ask me to produce screenshots/video for every url listed. Install Zango and verify it yourself or at least look for your Sponsor/site at http://resultsmaster.com


(1)ZANGO POPUP WINDOWS

Adultcash.com
AdultFriendfinder.com
Cams.com
Cybererotica.com
Ifriends.com
SexBankRoll.com
SexSearch.com
Webcams.com

(2)ZANGO TOOLBAR LISTINGS

AdamEve.com
Adultcash.com
AdultFriendfinder.com
Cams.com
Cybererotica.com
Freepornlessons.com
HornyMatches.com
Ifriends.com
SexBankRoll.com
SexSearch.com
TheBestporn.com
Webcams.com

(3)ZANGO SEARCH ENGINE LISTINGS

Adultcash.com
AdultFriendfinder.com
AdultPaymaster.com
Backdoorcash.com
Camcruisers.com
Cams.com
Cybererotica.com
Freepornlessons.com
HornyMatches.com
Ifriends.com
Iwantu.com
Mtree.com
PussyCash.com
QuickBuck.com
SexBankRoll.com
SexSearch.com
TrafficCashGold.com
Wegcash.com

Oz I appreciate the list and if it is ok I would like to use this information on a site I am building.

I am so glad you see things differently now. If nothing else comes out of this I know I helped at least 1 person see what is really going on here and honestly makes all the time I spent worth it.

[jscott]

Ozman great list man, thanks for that

[TampaToker]

Nice work Ozman

[Cory W]

Can someone show me where Weg is listed?

This damn sure better be accurate. I see all the traffic buys in our company.

[pussyluver]

Originally Posted by jimthefiend

I strongly suggest we all band together and cease sending traffic to Ifriends.

Tongue in cheek I assume. Cause what will that prove.

[rigrunner]

i know when i was using the toolbar it was mainly cams.com and privatefeeds.com showing up.

[will76]

Originally Posted by jimthefiend

Will is NOT going to be happy.

I'll be happy when Zango and scumware companies are gone.

I know you said you don't care about Zango, but 99% of us here do.

[Quick Buck]

First off, we do not advertise on zango directly or indirectly, if a listing is appearing it is absolutely an affiliate campaign.

Second, here is search marketing 101 for those of you who may not understand how it works:

Companies such as google, yahoo, ask, miva, kanoodle, 7search, enhance, goclick and on and on and on.... those companies allow you to bid on keywords in the ppc search engines.

Those companies then enter into syndication agreements with big web properties, see how google ppc results appear when you search on myspace? thats called syndication.... and if somebody advertises with google then their listings will probably appear on myspace.

So the logic behind suggesting that we support or advertise with zango is pretty flawed because a) it's probably an affiliate who buys low priced clicks b) the affiliate themselves probably have no idea that it's appearing on the zango search because buyers of ppc campaigns rarely have any say about what networks their ads can and can't be syndicated on.

If you want to say that "somebody is doing business with zango" then what you really should do is figure out which ppc search provider is syndicating their listings to Zango and they are the ones you can go on a witch hunt over.


The search listings is really a silly thing to point out, and suggesting that we somehow support zango is irresponsible imho and no more true than suggesting that I am "supporting" myspace because I may advertise something in google adwords.

[Quick Buck]

Whoops. double post.

[gooddomains]

got zango ?

[Cory W]

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

First off, we do not advertise on zango directly or indirectly, if a listing is appearing it is absolutely an affiliate campaign.

Second, here is search marketing 101 for those of you who may not understand how it works:

Companies such as google, yahoo, ask, miva, kanoodle, 7search, enhance, goclick and on and on and on.... those companies allow you to bid on keywords in the ppc search engines.

Those companies then enter into syndication agreements with big web properties, see how google ppc results appear when you search on myspace? thats called syndication.... and if somebody advertises with google then their listings will probably appear on myspace.

So the logic behind suggesting that we support or advertise with zango is pretty flawed because a) it's probably an affiliate who buys low priced clicks b) the affiliate themselves probably have no idea that it's appearing on the zango search because buyers of ppc campaigns rarely have any say about what networks their ads can and can't be syndicated on.

If you want to say that "somebody is doing business with zango" then what you really should do is figure out which ppc search provider is syndicating their listings to Zango and they are the ones you can go on a witch hunt over.


The search listings is really a silly thing to point out, and suggesting that we somehow support zango is irresponsible imho and no more true than suggesting that I am "supporting" myspace because I may advertise something in google adwords.

Exactly, and as I stated earlier, this had better be an accurate statement. It clearly is not.

[rigrunner]

No the Zango SE listings aren't a stupid thing to point out, because when the toolbar is installed, many times you get refreshed to the search engine page with particular keywords typed in already.

So if you're worried about your program being associated with zango, you should really start taking a look at where your traffic is coming from and perhaps get in touch with the company yourself.

Why would you want your company or your affiliates associated with that shit? PPC or not...

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

First off, we do not advertise on zango directly or indirectly, if a listing is appearing it is absolutely an affiliate campaign.

Second, here is search marketing 101 for those of you who may not understand how it works:

Companies such as google, yahoo, ask, miva, kanoodle, 7search, enhance, goclick and on and on and on.... those companies allow you to bid on keywords in the ppc search engines.

Those companies then enter into syndication agreements with big web properties, see how google ppc results appear when you search on myspace? thats called syndication.... and if somebody advertises with google then their listings will probably appear on myspace.

So the logic behind suggesting that we support or advertise with zango is pretty flawed because a) it's probably an affiliate who buys low priced clicks b) the affiliate themselves probably have no idea that it's appearing on the zango search because buyers of ppc campaigns rarely have any say about what networks their ads can and can't be syndicated on.

If you want to say that "somebody is doing business with zango" then what you really should do is figure out which ppc search provider is syndicating their listings to Zango and they are the ones you can go on a witch hunt over.

The search listings is really a silly thing to point out, and suggesting that we somehow support zango is irresponsible imho and no more true than suggesting that I am "supporting" myspace because I may advertise something in google adwords.

[Quick Buck]

Originally Posted by rigrunner

No the Zango SE listings aren't a stupid thing to point out, because when the toolbar is installed, many times you get refreshed to the search engine page with particular keywords typed in already.

So if you're worried about your program being associated with zango, you should really start taking a look at where your traffic is coming from and perhaps get in touch with the company yourself.

Why would you want your company or your affiliates associated with that shit? PPC or not...

Suggest to me how we police it then. Walk me through it though cause i'm slow.

[Cory W]

Originally Posted by rigrunner

No the Zango SE listings aren't a stupid thing to point out, because when the toolbar is installed, many times you get refreshed to the search engine page with particular keywords typed in already.

So if you're worried about your program being associated with zango, you should really start taking a look at where your traffic is coming from and perhaps get in touch with the company yourself.

Why would you want your company or your affiliates associated with that shit? PPC or not...

Do you realize what you are asking?

[RayVega]

Problem with these lists is that often (just like spamhaus lists) innocent parties are usually attached to the list for associations they cannot help. It also becomes a way for competitors to fuck each other. In the end the lists end up being as shady as the service they are trying to stop...Wegcash is a clear example...

I ran a publicly traded email marketing firm years ago and I cannot count the number of times some asshole would sign up for some service and then report the newsletter, or worse the confirmation email to a spamlist. We had the proof and the bucks to fight it and, get damages sometimes , but a lot of people do not. that's why I stopped using email marketing as a medium and sold off that company. In the end good solid commerce got hurt because of it and that hurts all of us.

Blacklists are as crooked and sloppy about their verification process as the adware or spam is bad for the industry...and they end up making everybody pay.

I have no idea how Zango even works, but All I have to say is, Make sure that list is accurate! I attacked venomously, the people that falsely accused me, and I usually won. I got many written apologies to prove it.

We all need to think out this Zango thing fully before jumping to conclusions...

Just some words of wisdom...

[RayVega]

Quick Buck , This is my point. Some asshole affiliate runs a Zango campaign with your program , and even though you shut them down when you find out, you are now on some fucking blacklist that you have to explain everytime you do business. It's just not a good idea, it has to be thought out a bit better.

That's my

[King of Queens]

I think something to the affect below is going to become a canned explanation for some companies who are in the bed with zango and other spyware creeps.

I'm not taking a shot at you Quick Buck. I dont know you and have had no dealings with your company.

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

First off, we do not advertise on zango directly or indirectly, if a listing is appearing it is absolutely an affiliate campaign.

Second, here is search marketing 101 for those of you who may not understand how it works:

Companies such as google, yahoo, ask, miva, kanoodle, 7search, enhance, goclick and on and on and on.... those companies allow you to bid on keywords in the ppc search engines.

Those companies then enter into syndication agreements with big web properties, see how google ppc results appear when you search on myspace? thats called syndication.... and if somebody advertises with google then their listings will probably appear on myspace.

So the logic behind suggesting that we support or advertise with zango is pretty flawed because a) it's probably an affiliate who buys low priced clicks b) the affiliate themselves probably have no idea that it's appearing on the zango search because buyers of ppc campaigns rarely have any say about what networks their ads can and can't be syndicated on.

If you want to say that "somebody is doing business with zango" then what you really should do is figure out which ppc search provider is syndicating their listings to Zango and they are the ones you can go on a witch hunt over.


The search listings is really a silly thing to point out, and suggesting that we somehow support zango is irresponsible imho and no more true than suggesting that I am "supporting" myspace because I may advertise something in google adwords.

[Quick Buck]

I'd like to pretend like i'm here to make friends and be popular, but i'm here to make money.

If you buy traffic to your own site, I don't really care how you get it as long as you're not breaking the law.

There is zero chance that I will begin walking down the slippery slope of policing who my affiliates can and can't do business with.

How would you like it if your biggest sponsor said "you can't do business with google adwords because they do things we disapprove of." You wouldn't stop using google, you'd just choose a different sponsor.

If i lose a few affiliate's because I'm not willing to play internet police then so be it. I have enough to do without being anybody else's keeper.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

Suggest to me how we police it then. Walk me through it though cause i'm slow.

I agree with everything you said. When it becomes one step removed like that is a lot different then the poeple like AFF who buy it directly from Zango. It is still shitty but not your fault IMO.

The only thing I don't agree with is you throwing back on us and telling us to take our witch hunt up with them, and then you ask us to tell you how to police your own site. Well if you don't know how don't expect us to know how. I think you are in a better position having server side info then we would know where you traffic is coming from. I also don't think it would be exactly a bad thing if some sponsors were proactive and looked into these things themselves instead of tossing back to the raving mad sheep on a witch hunt. Although I do realize it is just a big step for sponsors not to do business with scumware in the first place, so I would be thrilled if everyone else just didn't buy from them, no more no less.

[jayeff]

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

Suggest to me how we police it then. Walk me through it though cause i'm slow.

If I knew a way, I would be happy to tell you. But frankly, it is your job to find a solution, always assuming you actually want one. I just don't buy this "we can't police our traffic" response which sponsors come up when issues such as this surface, not least because if the consequences of not policing your traffic were more immediate (as spamming via email became not long ago) you would find a way.

Secondly we are not talking about needing to monitor all affiliates or even very large numbers of affiliates, because in practise the only ones having a significant impact are those producing significant sales. Okay, it is remotely possible that someone might set up dozens of low-profile accounts, but that should get caught by some existing anti-fraud mechanism. I suppose you could have an affiliate diverting thousands of surfers but failing to convert them. But basically, you need only focus on your more productive affiliates.

So you hire a monkey to track back the traffic coming from what, 50-100 affiliates tops? Looking at the toplists of those sponsors who publish them, that is a pretty generous assessment for most sponsors and the job gets easier as time passes, because you will be able to whitelist affiliates who run "known" sites if their traffic gets a clean bill of health.

You don't need me or anyone else to map the whole process out: you know what is involved as much as anyone here. The point is that this is not the only reason you should not want anonymous individuals sending you large amounts of sales from unknown sources and it is simply not true that the task is either too big or too expensive to handle. It might not be possible to catch every offender, but that is no reason to make no effort at all...

[will76]

Originally Posted by RayVega

Problem with these lists is that often (just like spamhaus lists) innocent parties are usually attached to the list for associations they cannot help. It also becomes a way for competitors to fuck each other. In the end the lists end up being as shady as the service they are trying to stop...Wegcash is a clear example...

I ran a publicly traded email marketing firm years ago and I cannot count the number of times some asshole would sign up for some service and then report the newsletter, or worse the confirmation email to a spamlist. We had the proof and the bucks to fight it and, get damages sometimes , but a lot of people do not. that's why I stopped using email marketing as a medium and sold off that company. In the end good solid commerce got hurt because of it and that hurts all of us.

Blacklists are as crooked and sloppy about their verification process as the adware or spam is bad for the industry...and they end up making everybody pay.

I have no idea how Zango even works, but All I have to say is, Make sure that list is accurate! I attacked venomously, the people that falsely accused me, and I usually won. I got many written apologies to prove it.

We all need to think out this Zango thing fully before jumping to conclusions...

Just some words of wisdom...

I agree with what you said and I can't stand independent companies (non regulated) like spamhaus that can shut down someone's business over night. Another one that gets me hot is credit reporting agencies. I've had family members shit on my credit report because of similar names and I am guilty until proven innocent and have to spend fucking weeks jumping through hoops to catch their fucking errors. Years back i had to close on a house and come to find out one of these issues happend and some bogus shit was on my credit and caused my rate to be a little higher. I had to close on the deal couldnt wait weeks/months to clear it up. It cost me thousands in higher interests even from just a .25% increase in the rates.

Believe me if anyone gets burned up about this shit it is me. On the same hand you have asshole companies doing business with Scumware. People are asking for list of sponsors who accept the traffic. I think people should be informed. There has to be a middle ground.

I will be gathering a list of companies and will be putting something together on a web site. Unfortnetly it has to be a judgement call but I will contact the sponsors before adding them for their official position on the scumware matter. I think it will be clear who supports it and who does.

If someone doesn't reply to your emails askign about it and you see them doing itover and over, it is fair to list them.
If someone like AFF fucking admits to it, then it is fair to list them.
If a sponsor says they are against it and they shut the affiliate accounts down, then you have to take their word for it, that they do stop it when reported and they do take it serious.

[will76]

Originally Posted by jayeff

If I knew a way, I would be happy to tell you. But frankly, it is your job to find a solution, always assuming you actually want one. I just don't buy this "we can't police our traffic" response which sponsors come up when issues such as this surface, not least because if the consequences of not policing your traffic were more immediate (as spamming via email became not long ago) you would find a way.

Secondly we are not talking about needing to monitor all affiliates or even very large numbers of affiliates, because in practise the only ones having a significant impact are those producing significant sales. Okay, it is remotely possible that someone might set up dozens of low-profile accounts, but that should get caught by some existing anti-fraud mechanism. I suppose you could have an affiliate diverting thousands of surfers but failing to convert them. But basically, you need only focus on your more productive affiliates.

So you hire a monkey to track back the traffic coming from what, 50-100 affiliates tops? Looking at the toplists of those sponsors who publish them, that is a pretty generous assessment for most sponsors and the job gets easier as time passes, because you will be able to whitelist affiliates who run "known" sites if their traffic gets a clean bill of health.

You don't need me or anyone else to map the whole process out: you know what is involved as much as anyone here. The point is that this is not the only reason you should not want anonymous individuals sending you large amounts of sales from unknown sources and it is simply not true that the task is either too big or too expensive to handle. It might not be possible to catch every offender, but that is no reason to make no effort at all...

I agree with you. All the sponors (and people who defend AFF) were jumping on me for asking why they weren't being proactive with the copyright problems they are facing with potterybarn. I got the same replies, who do you expect us to do, police all of our affiliates ? Well I am not even a programmer but I suggested why not once a week take a list of all of the urls that sent you traffic, run some type of spider on those pages and read meta tags. Set up a list of copyrighted words to check for. When you register for a copyright they actually write it down on a list ( who would have thunk it) and they actually let people see this list, they dont keep it at the pentegon locked up (wouldnt that defeat the purpose of having a list if no one knew who was on it ?
Naturally some idiots said well you can't think of all words in the word that are copyrighted, well maybe not, so does that mean you don't try, either 100% or nothing ??? stupid argument. At the very least in the eye of the court if you took measures to stop something it will go a long way vs. you did nothing to prevent it.

Anyway, I believe in most cases if sponsors thought about it they would find ways to be proactive in these situations. I believe that most sponsors do not want to do this. DO you think AFF would have banned an affiliate who was sending in 500 signups a week because he had potterybarn teens in their meta tags ? A lot of these company don't care where their traffic comes from muchless would they take steps to prove that they knew what was going on. They prefer the see no evil, hear no evil, then there must be no evil happening method.... then you get a wake up call from potterybarn

[RayVega]

Originally Posted by will76

I agree with everything you said. When it becomes one step removed like that is a lot different then the people like AFF who buy it directly from Zango. It is still shitty but not your fault IMO.

The only thing I don't agree with is you throwing back on us and telling us to take our witch hunt up with them, and then you ask us to tell you how to police your own site. Well if you don't know how don't expect us to know how. I think you are in a better position having server side info then we would know where you traffic is coming from. I also don't think it would be exactly a bad thing if some sponsors were proactive and looked into these things themselves instead of tossing back to the raving mad sheep on a witch hunt. Although I do realize it is just a big step for sponsors not to do business with scumware in the first place, so I would be thrilled if everyone else just didn't buy from them, no more no less.

Will, I understand your anger towards Zango. I hate spyware/adware worse than SPAM. But truth is that the almighty dollar rules and in my opinion the only thing your crusade will accomplish is more and more affiliates having to use Zango and companies like them because their affiliate base dropping off. In the end nobody is going to allow their competitors to take their business away. If people stop promoting sites that use Zango type advertising, it'll just force the programs to use Zango type advertising as an only alternative.

The battle can be won, but a "black or white" aggressive campaign against anyone remotely associated with adware will drive the market into their arms. I suggest a softer approach, let it evolve that non adware using programs get the best spots, the most traffic and more sales making adware less profitable instead of the only option for some companies between a rock and a hard place. More and more, companies will use adware less and open a market segment for other, more traditional or unique advertising methods.

By taking a passive approach you'll let other options evolve, rather than forcing programs to go one way or the other, because in the end I think that Zango along with the affiliates that'll accept it will prevail as the most profitable method. I mean lets face it, there's a lot of people out there that will still promote Zango users because it makes them money.

By making Zango users the red headed stepchild of the industry and a last resort for whatever niche they are in (much the same way government is pushing fuel economy to get people to switch from trucks to the Prius etc) you have a chance at rubbing them out through attrition, not brute force.

Thats my opinion, one in many.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

I'd like to pretend like i'm here to make friends and be popular, but i'm here to make money.

If you buy traffic to your own site, I don't really care how you get it as long as you're not breaking the law.

There is zero chance that I will begin walking down the slippery slope of policing who my affiliates can and can't do business with.

How would you like it if your biggest sponsor said "you can't do business with google adwords because they do things we disapprove of." You wouldn't stop using google, you'd just choose a different sponsor.

If i lose a few affiliate's because I'm not willing to play internet police then so be it. I have enough to do without being anybody else's keeper.

Ok, so just to clear that up. If your affiliate uses zango for traffic, you are fine with him using zango and your company to steal traffic / sales from us because it is not technically "illegal" yet.

I am not here to make friends either, I am here to make money, but I will also have a little diginity and I believe in business ethics as well, which basically consist of "don't steal from people".

You really have this backwards. As an afilliate company your have more responsibilities then just an affiliate, so you analogy is not a good one.

I guess Ozman was right for having you listed in the "zango" category from everything you just said, you are ok if your affiliates use scumware traffic and you will not shut them down.

Is it ok if I quote your post there as your "official statement" on mysite or would you like to revise it ?

[will76]

Originally Posted by RayVega

Will, I understand your anger towards Zango. I hate spyware/adware worse than SPAM. But truth is that the almighty dollar rules and in my opinion the only thing your crusade will accomplish is more and more affiliates having to use Zango and companies like them because their affiliate base dropping off. In the end nobody is going to allow their competitors to take their business away. If people stop promoting sites that use Zango type advertising, it'll just force the programs to use Zango type advertising as an only alternative.

The battle can be won, but a "black or white" aggressive campaign against anyone remotely associated with adware will drive the market into their arms. I suggest a softer approach, let it evolve that non adware using programs get the best spots, the most traffic and more sales making adware less profitable instead of the only option for some companies between a rock and a hard place. More and more, companies will use adware less and open a market segment for other, more traditional or unique advertising methods.

By taking a passive approach you'll let other options evolve, rather than forcing programs to go one way or the other, because in the end I think that Zango along with the affiliates that'll accept it will prevail as the most profitable method. I mean lets face it, there's a lot of people out there that will still promote Zango users because it makes them money.

By making Zango users the red headed stepchild of the industry and a last resort for whatever niche they are in (much the same way government is pushing fuel economy to get people to switch from trucks to the Prius etc) you have a chance at rubbing them out through attrition, not brute force.

Thats my opinion, one in many.

I disagree. I don't know of one program that was using them and have since stopped.

I want to make everyone show us where they stand on this issue and let the affiliates then decide if they want to do business with a dirty fucking company or a honest company.

Then and only then will the affiliates have the power to really say if this is an acceptable form of advertising. If all the affiliates ignore it the we get what we diserve. If enough are pissed off and move to other sponsors then the ones using it will lose more money then they are making and they will wise up, kiss some ass, and stop using scumware.

If I am missing something here let me know.

[tranza]

I'm pretty sure TCG doesn't support Zango. I'll make sure Laura sees this thread...

ok this was an interested read to be very honest

[will76]

Originally Posted by Quick Buck

I'd like to pretend like i'm here to make friends and be popular, but i'm here to make money.

.

BTW, no need to pretend. Atleast you are honest and straight up and not posting pictures of who you were blowing at the last show and how cool everyone else it, etc... that shit gets pretty old too I wish more people were no BS.

[elitegirls]

bump - goood thread!

[RayVega]

Originally Posted by will76

I disagree. I don't know of one program that was using them and have since stopped.

I want to make everyone show us where they stand on this issue and let the affiliates then decide if they want to do business with a dirty fucking company or a honest company.

Then and only then will the affiliates have the power to really say if this is an acceptable form of advertising. If all the affiliates ignore it the we get what we diserve. If enough are pissed off and move to other sponsors then the ones using it will lose more money then they are making and they will wise up, kiss some ass, and stop using scumware.

If I am missing something here let me know.

Not at all...I think we agree, i just said it in a different way. My intuition tells me however, that when all is said and done, the affiliates will ignore it (at least after the initial controversy wears off), but I may be wrong.

[will76]

Originally Posted by RayVega

Not at all...I think we agree, i just said it in a different way. My intuition tells me however, that when all is said and done, the affiliates will ignore it (at least after the initial controversy wears off), but I may be wrong.

you may be right. I guess time will tell and I will be making sure to do my part to tip the scale in the right direction.

All things considered, I didn't think there would have been this big of a response. So I am pleased to see so many people upset about it and doing something, even if it is just bumping threads or bitching. Bitching is good, if you cant do anything else bitch, enough people bitch, more people who can/will do something take notice, then sponsors take notice. Everyone has their part and can contribute one way or another.

[emthree]

More drama

[ajrocks]

Who is that person that keeps posting zangoblacklist.com? Some of the sites you have mentioned are on their list.

[Dirty Dane]

Thanks for the list.

[Missie]

Originally Posted by RayVega

the only thing your crusade will accomplish is more and more affiliates having to use Zango and companies like them because their affiliate base dropping off. In the end nobody is going to allow their competitors to take their business away. If people stop promoting sites that use Zango type advertising, it'll just force the programs to use Zango type advertising as an only alternative.

*banging head against a wall...*

That's exactly what most people don't understand. Zango and other adware companies do not have sites of their own that they promote for sponsors. That's why all advertisers rely on overwriting cookies to make sales because otherwise surfers would just close the popup window and adware advertisers would never make a dime.

Adware users, both sponsors and affiliates, NEED, and please read this carefully, NEED legit affiliates. If the only people in a program are adware users, they will only steal from each other. Let them, that's what they deserve!

If another sponsor is popping over YOUR sites, SUE THEM! These cases have been won against other adware before, they will be won again. The ONLY people who can win a lawsuit against adware are SPONSORS, not affiliates. Don't know how to do this? No idea how to go about it? Contact Ben Edelman! You want someone to monitor your sites for you? Contact Kellie! That's what they do for a living.

Zango and other adware are not picky, they'll pop up anywhere, over any site, and steal from anyone and everyone if the keywords/URL's are right.

SPONSORS can put a stop to adware by suing other sponsors that pop on their sites. Affiliates can sue sponsors for breach of agreement when sales are blatantly stolen, the sponsor knows about it and doesn't do a thing to stop it.

Affiliates can help put a stop to it by dropping sponsors that allow it until all they have left are adware advertisers in the program.

Do you know what that means? Does anyone understand this?

Adware popups will appear on free search engine listings, on ppc listings, type-ins, bookmarks, anything that has your URL in it, the source does NOT matter. So if only adware advertisers are left in a program the SPONSOR is the biggest loser of all because all FREE traffic will becomes a commissionable sale if affiliates use adware... OR

Sponsor will steal from every affiliate in his program until no one makes any money anymore and move on to another program. Who's the sponsor gonna steal from? Himself?? How much good would it do to use adware without affiliates??

Sponsors lose regardless of how you look at it.

Without affiliates, how many sponsors would survive?

Missie

[OzMan]

Thanks everyone for the input so far. My lists are not about pointing fingers. They are to make people realize that the ugly tentacles of Adware are wider and longer and closer to you than you might have realized. I reported what I saw and everything I said should be easily verifiable by anyone within minutes. If you really can't see your listing and it bothers you, hit me up and I'll send you the url if I can remember the search it came up on.

Regarding the listing of Sponsors who have their Affiliates displayed on Zango search results. Yes it's one step removed from those who buy directly from Zango or those who promote installs. That's why I made three separate lists and explained what each list meant and bolded my reasoning rather than making one "Zango Supporters" list like http://zangoblacklist.com has done with Mainstream and Adult combined and no clear explanation about how they derived their results.

How big a step that one step removed is depends on your viewpoint. Continue my logic enough steps and of course no business would be done at all as we all deal with people who do illegal/unethical crap or at most deal with someone who deals with someone who deals with them so each of us has our own line we draw.

Should Sponsors cancel Affiliates that buy directly on Zango and stop using it themselves as well? Ideally yes but they would all have to stop, not just some and to get them all to stop doing it voluntarily seems to be highly unlikely, though props to Will for at least making his best effort and promoting the discussion that will hopefully produce solutions.

Should Sponsors cancel Affiliates that are listed on PPC sites displayed at Zango? Of course not. The traffic to those PPC engines comes from many reputable sites, not just adware sites like Zango and as was said, the Affiliate probably doesn't even know and can't choose where the traffic originates. To the surfer however the connection seems pretty direct.

Should Sponsors attempt to monitor their Affiliates traffic sources more closely to determine a way to not have themselves associated with Adware? Of course, if there is a practical way to implement this without tying up excessive time and resources. As Jayeff said it will pay off in other areas of present and future unethical/illegal activity not just Adware.

Although I am hopeful the Adware problem will go away, I have a very pessimistic view and unfortunately it seems more likely that it will soften a bit through laws and pressure and eventually evolve to be an accepted practice, crazy as that might seem at the moment.

I can see the toolbars of the main SE's evolving to be more like Zango and them even showing all sponsored results on page one in the not too distant future, based on what the highest bidder thinks we were searching for, like Zango is doing now, with the "real" results relegated to page two or a different engine altogether, perhaps run by a couple guys out of their garage.

[Bake]

Bump for a good read





Oh yeah Zango is the devil

[Missie]

You think there's nothing we can do about this? Surfers can do a LOT. Consumers can do a LOT. We are all BOTH besides being affiliates. The FTC just shut another adware company down... As Kellie says.. Another one bites the dust! :D

http://www.informationweek.com/secur...leID=194300450

Missie

[will76]

Oz, I had someone contact me. Out of respect for his privacy I will not say who it was and He did not tell me which PPC company he was talking about but... he told me that he did business with one of them and showed them this thread and they cancelled their relationship with zango and stopped accepted traffic from them.

When I finish my site, follow along the lines of what you started here, when I get the " one stepped removed" people, I will put the burden on the PPC to do something about it. They have other customers as well and if enough people who buy ppc from them do like the person who contacted me did, and complain to the PPC search engines they buy traffic from, I believe most will listen.

Maybe this can be the first step to shaking out the bad companies and seperating the bad people from the good.

just a FYI, for those who like the throw the holier than thou comments at me. If you want to know my beliefs, it is 99% stealing. Stealing content, Stealing traffic, Stealing money. How many people have you paid for a service and they fucked you. Companies like ibill, who stole thousands from us, thats the shit I have it out for. I am not here to tell people how to advertise, if this is spam and that is not, that geo-targeting is missleading, etc... thats not what I am trying to do hre.

but if we can seperate at least the honest people from the theives in our industry, I think the honest people will accomplish a lot.

[MyNameIsNobody]

Bump for a very good read..

[will76]

48 ???? ?

[will76]

oppsssssss

[TreasureBucks]

I think the appropriate response if your company is ending up in these lists, and you didnt directly make a deal with zango, is "show me the affiliate id, so i can delete it" or "thank you for pointing this out, I will locate the affiliate and delete them"

My guess is, any affiliates who lose sales when they get deleted, are not going to continue to sign up and try again.

I also just read an article on how Zango settled with the ftc and is now no longer dealing with 3rd parties. I assume this means affiliates that would sign up to a program and strike a deal with zango, to promote such program.