An old timers perspective on the Directnic issue - GoFuckYourself.com

john t bone · 12-13-2006, 03:05 PM

I am fascinated by the outrage expressed here over this issue. Welcome to the real world of pornography. You as web guys have been allowed to grow as an industry for years while old time pornographers like myself have had to deal with this bullshit on a daily basis, personally I have been arrested 4 times and was number one on Edwin Meese?s hit list for years (you were all in school). Many of my friends are embroiled in 2257 violations not from shooting underage girls but from a Cavalier attitude to their responsibilities and years of answering to no one,
Well get used to it, there is an election coming and you my friends are the most news worthy targets in the US today. This is just the beginning, Bush?s Gestapo have been using third parties to police the citizens of America for years, your banks report regularly on your deposits, and your emails are close to public domain. Companies like Directnic (yes all my domains are with them) are being bullied by this administration to police your industry or they will take all of their toys away.
I saw the site in question and honestly guys it doesn?t take a rocket scientist to realize that they are capitalizing on CP, maybe the girls are over 18 but some of them sure don?t look it.
If a girl who is 18 gets work in porno because she looks 12 and a photographer shoots her because she looks 12 and a webmaster puts her on his site because she looks 12 they had all better be ready to prove to anybody who asks that she is indeed 18.
If you are really smart you will either stay away from this kind of content until the election is over or allocate at least $100,000 to a legal fighting fund to protect your right to promote pornographic pictures of girls who look underage.
Directnic acted properly to inform our friend that they believed he was promoting CP and giving him time to prove otherwise, as this climate worsens they will be shutting webmasters down on even a whisper. This government has prospered by instilling fear in people, Americans are most susceptible to fear of their children?s wellbeing and we my friends are the Boogie Man.
Most people get into porn because, like me, they despise authority but with success comes responsibility and promoting sites with 18 year olds who look 12 is not responsible under this administration. Fighting for the right to do so is foot stamping, spoilt, childishness. There are plenty of ways to make money without promoting pedophilia, either real or inferred, and to do so in today?s climate is just crazy. But that's just my opinion!

jpwhits · 12-13-2006, 03:23 PM

If you dont know who this guy is then you aern't in the KNOW!

CDSmith · 12-13-2006, 03:30 PM

Can't really argue with most of that. If you're promoting the "18 but looks younger" stuff it's not hard to figure out that next to actual CP itself, that kind of content is probably the first to be put under the microscope.

But as I said in the other thread, I think I would much rather have someone like Mike AI (who comes from the perspective of having been in adult for many years) look under the hood of my sites than to have his company simply report me to the government forcing me to deal with that level of red tape, harrassment, anal probing etc etc etc.

teenfunsfan · 12-13-2006, 03:31 PM

I can only second that, Directnic did exactly the right thing.

jscott · 12-13-2006, 03:34 PM

Brujah · 12-13-2006, 03:43 PM

As much as you want to spin it, this isn't about irresponsibility or being childish. This is about a lot more. It's about the violation of privacy rights. It's about a registrar adding "investigator" to it's role of selling a domain name instead of letting the proper and appropriate authorities request that information. It's about reacting to a news article speculating a new law if McCain can get it passed?

DirectNIC provided the issue, but the debate concerns a lot more than this specific registrar.

Statements like "honestly guys it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that they are capitalizing on CP" have been thrown around in reference to sponsors like LightSpeed too, and of course some of their girls were on the TGP in question.

What we're talking about here are additional requirements that the law does not currently require aren't we? Aren't they asking for information on the models that these sponsors are hosting in their hosted galleries? I don't think the sponsors give that out to their affiliates. Should they start making it available to more and more people?

To the registrar of your domain name? That's getting further down the line. It wouldn't be so unusual to expect everyone that links to you or trades traffic with you to start needing photo IDs too.

Imagine all the images being posted on GFY as a forum, or some of the other forums. The owners of the forum would need to verify photo IDs of every image posted.

CDSmith · 12-13-2006, 03:55 PM

Hmm... well, valid points on both sides, but let's look at it this way and see what you think...

A host certainly has the right to take a look (as in "investigate" of that's what you want to call it) at the sites they are hosting, and upon seeing anything they feel might violate their TOS they have the right to discontinue service to the owner of the offending site. Correct?

So... why then would not a registrar also have the right to refuse service to anyone they feel is violating their TOS?

I'll say this for directnic, at least Slick has some time to provide information and plead his case. There are those companies who would have nuked his account and frozen all his domains in seconds, all over a "suspicion".

And with all the fuss over the growing problem of CP and other illegal things out there on the web, frankly I'm not at all surprised that this issue has cropped up right here among us. I'm surprised it hasn't blown up sooner.

DannyWRP · 12-13-2006, 03:57 PM

As another original "old-timer" in this industry, I believe that Directnic acted correctly. We do need to start policing ourselves before we force the government to do it for us (of course, many of us have been saying that for over 10 years). I've always said we have to use a bit of common sense in this industry. But if you want to push the envelope, you can't expect the backing of the adult community in general when things go bad.

darksoul · 12-13-2006, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DannyWRP

As another original "old-timer" in this industry, I believe that Directnic acted correctly. We do need to start policing ourselves before we force the government to do it for us (of course, many of us have been saying that for over 10 years). I've always said we have to use a bit of common sense in this industry. But if you want to push the envelope, you can't expect the backing of the adult community in general when things go bad.

yes we do need to police ourselfs as an industry.
but who designated directnic to be in charge of cleaning the
adult industry ?

ElvisManson · 12-13-2006, 04:07 PM

I posted this in another thread...but it seems to apply here too.

Lawrence Walters from Weston, Garrou & DeWitt published an article quite a while ago on how Vulnerable the "Gate Keepers" of our industry are to Government pressure.

He lists the billing processors, AVS's, hosts, ISPs and merchant banks as gatekeepers. It looks like he can now add registars to that list.

"While the adult Internet industry was bracing for an onslaught of obscenity prosecutions against adult Websites, government officials were one step ahead, and plotting actions against the industry's Gatekeepers: the billing processors, AVS's, hosts, ISPs and merchant banks. The conversations taking place in the prosecutors' conference rooms have not focused on whether fisting or double penetration is obscene, they have honed in on choking the industry's Gatekeepers. Law enforcement departments have a budget too: they try to get as much bang for their buck as the average webmaster. "How can we shut down a thousand webmasters for the price of one prosecution?" they may be asking. It didn't take them long to figure out that access to adult Websites is critically dependent on the permission and continued services of a Website's: (1) hosting company; (2) third party billing processor (now called ISPS); (3) Age Verification Service (AVS); and/or, (4) merchant bank."

the full article can be found at http://www.firstamendment.com/chokeh...tekeepers.php3

Brujah · 12-13-2006, 04:10 PM

In the end.. we just like to debate it and talk about it for awhile. This isn't the industry policing anything. It's a registrar. Remember back when Network Solutions was the only registrar and wouldn't allow domain names with the bad words? In some ways it's almost coming full circle as these same words are now being removed from the main domain parking sites, and domain auction sites. You won't be able to use them to sell your domains that contain adult language.

One good thing coming out of this is more awareness. I wasn't aware before that TGP owners needed to have photo IDs for sponsor hosted galleries. Someone (PleasurePays) in another thread just said that they've had to do that for awhile now.

Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE · 12-13-2006, 04:11 PM

Nice to see the old schoolers come to voice there view...

john t bone · 12-13-2006, 04:17 PM

The government doesn't give a fuck about your rights in fact if they acknowledge that you have any and they are inconvenient to their case they will change the law. You were probably never arrested under the pandering laws, I was, they were written to chase prostitutes and pimps out of Los Angeles during the Olympic games but used illegally to arrest pornographers. Several trials and hundreds of thousands of dollars later the laws were thrown out. The name of the game is legislation the government fucks us we fight back it costs a bundle. Please get it into your heads that this shit is just beginning. The religious right whacko's have fought Porn for more that the 20 odd years I have been in it. The government never abides by the rules it just makes new one's, usually in the name of child protection. This is not a case of who did what to whom it is the writing on the wall of government intervention into your industry. I was one of the guys who thought we could fight the absurdity of 2257, dumb fuck me. 2257 is a total invasion of privacy and totally unconstitutional but it is about protecting kids and like the first few years of the war it is un-American to speak out against it.
How the fuck is it about kids? Do CP producers comply. Has there been a turn down in CP product. 2257 is an encumbrance on legitimate companies that invades and violates your constitutional rights to privacy period, arguing who has the right to view this information is a mute point.
Beware John McCain and all of the other thieves and liars of the Republican party who intent to use you as their election marketing tools. Now is the time to understand that we are all in danger and fighting amongst ourselves keeps us ignorant of the true issues.
Directnic did what they did because if they didn't the government would come after them and used that issue to instigate further legislation or close you all down , understand that and you are half way to preparing yourselves for the upcoming onslaught.
Knock knock
Whose there?
The FBI we want to check your records
You may now shit yourself.

12-13-2006, 03:05 PM	#1
john t bone Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 55	An old timers perspective on the Directnic issue I am fascinated by the outrage expressed here over this issue. Welcome to the real world of pornography. You as web guys have been allowed to grow as an industry for years while old time pornographers like myself have had to deal with this bullshit on a daily basis, personally I have been arrested 4 times and was number one on Edwin Meese?s hit list for years (you were all in school). Many of my friends are embroiled in 2257 violations not from shooting underage girls but from a Cavalier attitude to their responsibilities and years of answering to no one, Well get used to it, there is an election coming and you my friends are the most news worthy targets in the US today. This is just the beginning, Bush?s Gestapo have been using third parties to police the citizens of America for years, your banks report regularly on your deposits, and your emails are close to public domain. Companies like Directnic (yes all my domains are with them) are being bullied by this administration to police your industry or they will take all of their toys away. I saw the site in question and honestly guys it doesn?t take a rocket scientist to realize that they are capitalizing on CP, maybe the girls are over 18 but some of them sure don?t look it. If a girl who is 18 gets work in porno because she looks 12 and a photographer shoots her because she looks 12 and a webmaster puts her on his site because she looks 12 they had all better be ready to prove to anybody who asks that she is indeed 18. If you are really smart you will either stay away from this kind of content until the election is over or allocate at least $100,000 to a legal fighting fund to protect your right to promote pornographic pictures of girls who look underage. Directnic acted properly to inform our friend that they believed he was promoting CP and giving him time to prove otherwise, as this climate worsens they will be shutting webmasters down on even a whisper. This government has prospered by instilling fear in people, Americans are most susceptible to fear of their children?s wellbeing and we my friends are the Boogie Man. Most people get into porn because, like me, they despise authority but with success comes responsibility and promoting sites with 18 year olds who look 12 is not responsible under this administration. Fighting for the right to do so is foot stamping, spoilt, childishness. There are plenty of ways to make money without promoting pedophilia, either real or inferred, and to do so in today?s climate is just crazy. But that's just my opinion!

12-13-2006, 03:30 PM	#3
CDSmith Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: My network is hosted at TECHIEMEDIA.net ...Wait, you meant where am I located at? Oh... okay, I'm in Winnipeg, Canada. Oops. :) Posts: 51,460	Can't really argue with most of that. If you're promoting the "18 but looks younger" stuff it's not hard to figure out that next to actual CP itself, that kind of content is probably the first to be put under the microscope. But as I said in the other thread, I think I would much rather have someone like Mike AI (who comes from the perspective of having been in adult for many years) look under the hood of my sites than to have his company simply report me to the government forcing me to deal with that level of red tape, harrassment, anal probing etc etc etc. __________________ *Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!* ALWAYS THE HIGHEST PAYOUTS: Big Bux/ImLive SIGNUP ON NOW!!! Put some PUSSYCA$H in your pocket. ICQ me at: 31024634

12-13-2006, 03:43 PM	#6
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	As much as you want to spin it, this isn't about irresponsibility or being childish. This is about a lot more. It's about the violation of privacy rights. It's about a registrar adding "investigator" to it's role of selling a domain name instead of letting the proper and appropriate authorities request that information. It's about reacting to a news article speculating a new law if McCain can get it passed? DirectNIC provided the issue, but the debate concerns a lot more than this specific registrar. Statements like "honestly guys it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that they are capitalizing on CP" have been thrown around in reference to sponsors like LightSpeed too, and of course some of their girls were on the TGP in question. What we're talking about here are additional requirements that the law does not currently require aren't we? Aren't they asking for information on the models that these sponsors are hosting in their hosted galleries? I don't think the sponsors give that out to their affiliates. Should they start making it available to more and more people? To the registrar of your domain name? That's getting further down the line. It wouldn't be so unusual to expect everyone that links to you or trades traffic with you to start needing photo IDs too. Imagine all the images being posted on GFY as a forum, or some of the other forums. The owners of the forum would need to verify photo IDs of every image posted. __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

12-13-2006, 03:55 PM	#7
CDSmith Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: My network is hosted at TECHIEMEDIA.net ...Wait, you meant where am I located at? Oh... okay, I'm in Winnipeg, Canada. Oops. :) Posts: 51,460	Hmm... well, valid points on both sides, but let's look at it this way and see what you think... A host certainly has the right to take a look (as in "investigate" of that's what you want to call it) at the sites they are hosting, and upon seeing anything they feel might violate their TOS they have the right to discontinue service to the owner of the offending site. Correct? So... why then would not a registrar also have the right to refuse service to anyone they feel is violating their TOS? I'll say this for directnic, at least Slick has some time to provide information and plead his case. There are those companies who would have nuked his account and frozen all his domains in seconds, all over a "suspicion". And with all the fuss over the growing problem of CP and other illegal things out there on the web, frankly I'm not at all surprised that this issue has cropped up right here among us. I'm surprised it hasn't blown up sooner. __________________ *Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!* ALWAYS THE HIGHEST PAYOUTS: Big Bux/ImLive SIGNUP ON NOW!!! Put some PUSSYCA$H in your pocket. ICQ me at: 31024634

12-13-2006, 04:10 PM	#11
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	In the end.. we just like to debate it and talk about it for awhile. This isn't the industry policing anything. It's a registrar. Remember back when Network Solutions was the only registrar and wouldn't allow domain names with the bad words? In some ways it's almost coming full circle as these same words are now being removed from the main domain parking sites, and domain auction sites. You won't be able to use them to sell your domains that contain adult language. One good thing coming out of this is more awareness. I wasn't aware before that TGP owners needed to have photo IDs for sponsor hosted galleries. Someone (PleasurePays) in another thread just said that they've had to do that for awhile now. __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

12-13-2006, 03:23 PM	#2
jpwhits Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,045	If you dont know who this guy is then you aern't in the KNOW!

12-13-2006, 03:31 PM	#4
teenfunsfan Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 74	I can only second that, Directnic did exactly the right thing.

12-13-2006, 03:34 PM	#5
jscott So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Taipei Posts: 25,198	.

12-13-2006, 03:57 PM	#8
DannyWRP Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: On my sailboat Posts: 7	As another original "old-timer" in this industry, I believe that Directnic acted correctly. We do need to start policing ourselves before we force the government to do it for us (of course, many of us have been saying that for over 10 years). I've always said we have to use a bit of common sense in this industry. But if you want to push the envelope, you can't expect the backing of the adult community in general when things go bad.

12-13-2006, 04:07 PM	#10
ElvisManson Looking California Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 5,476	I posted this in another thread...but it seems to apply here too. Lawrence Walters from Weston, Garrou & DeWitt published an article quite a while ago on how Vulnerable the "Gate Keepers" of our industry are to Government pressure. He lists the billing processors, AVS's, hosts, ISPs and merchant banks as gatekeepers. It looks like he can now add registars to that list. "While the adult Internet industry was bracing for an onslaught of obscenity prosecutions against adult Websites, government officials were one step ahead, and plotting actions against the industry's Gatekeepers: the billing processors, AVS's, hosts, ISPs and merchant banks. The conversations taking place in the prosecutors' conference rooms have not focused on whether fisting or double penetration is obscene, they have honed in on choking the industry's Gatekeepers. Law enforcement departments have a budget too: they try to get as much bang for their buck as the average webmaster. "How can we shut down a thousand webmasters for the price of one prosecution?" they may be asking. It didn't take them long to figure out that access to adult Websites is critically dependent on the permission and continued services of a Website's: (1) hosting company; (2) third party billing processor (now called ISPS); (3) Age Verification Service (AVS); and/or, (4) merchant bank." the full article can be found at http://www.firstamendment.com/chokeh...tekeepers.php3

12-13-2006, 04:11 PM	#12
Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE North Coast Pimp Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: 304-534-757 Posts: 9,395	Nice to see the old schoolers come to voice there view...

12-13-2006, 04:17 PM	#13
john t bone Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 55	The government doesn't give a fuck about your rights in fact if they acknowledge that you have any and they are inconvenient to their case they will change the law. You were probably never arrested under the pandering laws, I was, they were written to chase prostitutes and pimps out of Los Angeles during the Olympic games but used illegally to arrest pornographers. Several trials and hundreds of thousands of dollars later the laws were thrown out. The name of the game is legislation the government fucks us we fight back it costs a bundle. Please get it into your heads that this shit is just beginning. The religious right whacko's have fought Porn for more that the 20 odd years I have been in it. The government never abides by the rules it just makes new one's, usually in the name of child protection. This is not a case of who did what to whom it is the writing on the wall of government intervention into your industry. I was one of the guys who thought we could fight the absurdity of 2257, dumb fuck me. 2257 is a total invasion of privacy and totally unconstitutional but it is about protecting kids and like the first few years of the war it is un-American to speak out against it. How the fuck is it about kids? Do CP producers comply. Has there been a turn down in CP product. 2257 is an encumbrance on legitimate companies that invades and violates your constitutional rights to privacy period, arguing who has the right to view this information is a mute point. Beware John McCain and all of the other thieves and liars of the Republican party who intent to use you as their election marketing tools. Now is the time to understand that we are all in danger and fighting amongst ourselves keeps us ignorant of the true issues. Directnic did what they did because if they didn't the government would come after them and used that issue to instigate further legislation or close you all down , understand that and you are half way to preparing yourselves for the upcoming onslaught. Knock knock Whose there? The FBI we want to check your records You may now shit yourself.