Saddam shouldn't have been killed ... ??? - GoFuckYourself.com

Twisted Dave · 12-30-2006, 09:35 PM

The title of this thread is not my opinion, fact or a statement of what anyone I know thinks ...

Just opening this up and wondering ... I mean .... who thinks it's right that you take a life for a life (or lives) ?

I watched some footage on Sky News of him being taken to the rope and saw the guys in black headmasks talking to him etc ....

And I felt ill ....

I don't know, but .... it just seems to me that the whole death penalty thing is wrong. I know it's an old debate, but shit ... killing a guy. It's morally wrong. Aren't we (the supporters) as bad as him for this ? He killed people... with no remorse. But does that mean we have the right to take his life?

I dunno ... I'm feeling a little uneasy about this.

Btw: Saddam is just one example of the thousands that have been killed by governments as punishment... and I'm using him as an example, but really, this goes out to every execution.

Dagwolf · 12-30-2006, 09:40 PM

Be compassionate enough to care when you have to put down a rabid animal, but be strong enough to do it.

spunkmaster · 12-30-2006, 09:42 PM

They should have sawed his head off with a sword like they did to Dan Perl !

mikesouth · 12-30-2006, 09:45 PM

I tell ya why you felt ill

1. Your tax dollars put him in power
2. your tax dollars kept him in power
3. your tax dollars supplied him both directly and indirectly with the chemicals he used in his chemical weapons against Iran and the Kurds.
4. Your tax dollars took him out, tried him and executed him

Im not saying we arent better off without him, we probably are but the truth is Bush needed a scapegoat and Saddam was in the right place at the right time.

Mr.Right - Banned For Life · 12-30-2006, 09:45 PM

I am all for the death penalty.

Twisted Dave · 12-30-2006, 09:48 PM

but ... i mean ... isn't Saddam just being used as a scapegoat for this whole thing? The war on terror? Yes, he played a part ... but Bush is making him out to be the single biggest target etc etc ... Well, actually, the war on terror is just a publicity machine, and Saddam was the latest star ...

I mean ... one man hung will NOT change the way these mental cases act when they want to blow someone up ...

What happened to Osama? What about North Korea. .. what about all these other targets who for some time appear to be on the agenda, but then fade away. I remember when Osama was the hot topic ... he got away, fucked off ... had a good old time ... Bush lost him, so moved on. He needed a distinct target that was visible to the public, and that he knew he could get... So Saddam...

Not saying Saddam was innocent and should have been patted on the back, but he definitely was the scapegoat I think....

Anyways ... it's interesting reading all the views.

Some of them are sick and fucking odd ... some people on GFY are gagging to see the death ... in a freaky kind of way... and some are against the death.

Twisted Dave · 12-30-2006, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

I tell ya why you felt ill

1. Your tax dollars put him in power
2. your tax dollars kept him in power
3. your tax dollars supplied him both directly and indirectly with the chemicals he used in his chemical weapons against Iran and the Kurds.
4. Your tax dollars took him out, tried him and executed him

Im not saying we arent better off without him, we probably are but the truth is Bush needed a scapegoat and Saddam was in the right place at the right time.

I wasn't old enough to be paying Tax when he was put in power ... and I'm not US based, which I assume is your assumption about me...

amacontent · 12-30-2006, 09:56 PM

You would sing a different tune if your mother or father was tortured and killed by him

mikesouth · 12-30-2006, 09:58 PM

yer right my bad I ASSumed you were US but what I am saying holds.

I'm just uneasy about it because truth is we (Americans) have almost as much culpability in it all as Saddam did

Twisted Dave · 12-30-2006, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amacontent

You would sing a different tune if your mother or father was tortured and killed by him

Maybe ... but I am 100% sure that not everyone who was directly affected by Saddam's actions will have the view you're talking about.

And one last thing ...

I'm pretty sure that 99% of the people here baying for Saddam's blood, were NOT directly affected by his regime...

junction · 12-30-2006, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

I tell ya why you felt ill

1. Your tax dollars put him in power
2. your tax dollars kept him in power
3. your tax dollars supplied him both directly and indirectly with the chemicals he used in his chemical weapons against Iran and the Kurds.
4. Your tax dollars took him out, tried him and executed him

Im not saying we arent better off without him, we probably are but the truth is Bush needed a scapegoat and Saddam was in the right place at the right time.

Bout time someone said it like it is.

he-fox · 12-30-2006, 10:21 PM

I look at all Saddam thingy as a internal irakian affair, even that it´s true America was connected to him in one way or another through all his leadership year.
And from this prospective, hanging him was an well deserved act of justice in the memory of his fellow irakians that he butchered over the years.

auscguy · 12-30-2006, 10:26 PM

You are right, he shouldnt have been hung......its too quick.

He shouldve been stoned then impailed, in truew Iraqi tradition!

collegeboobies · 12-30-2006, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twisted Illustration

The title of this thread is not my opinion, fact or a statement of what anyone I know thinks ...

Just opening this up and wondering ... I mean .... who thinks it's right that you take a life for a life (or lives) ?

I watched some footage on Sky News of him being taken to the rope and saw the guys in black headmasks talking to him etc ....

And I felt ill ....

I don't know, but .... it just seems to me that the whole death penalty thing is wrong. I know it's an old debate, but shit ... killing a guy. It's morally wrong. Aren't we (the supporters) as bad as him for this ? He killed people... with no remorse. But does that mean we have the right to take his life?

I dunno ... I'm feeling a little uneasy about this.

Btw: Saddam is just one example of the thousands that have been killed by governments as punishment... and I'm using him as an example, but really, this goes out to every execution.

we are killing him for doing exactly what we are doing to him, in his countrys methods basically. we cant expect the leaders of all countries to have the same standards when there are millions of complex differences.

collegeboobies · 12-30-2006, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by he-fox

I look at all Saddam thingy as a internal irakian affair, even that it´s true America was connected to him in one way or another through all his leadership year.
And from this prospective, hanging him was an well deserved act of justice in the memory of his fellow irakians that he butchered over the years.

but the whole trial was done by basically US hand picked people almost. there was no chance anything other than this would have happened. NONE.

TSGlider · 12-30-2006, 11:05 PM

One could argue that he deserved to die for his crimes. This is an easy argument to win.

He is responsible for killing a lot of people. He's responsible for wrecking the lives of everyone--mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers--who had a stake in the lives of those he killed. These are people who will live with a profound loss, a, forgive the melodrama but homicide is melodramatic, a deep, profound hollowness for the rest of their days.

At the same time, you can argue that sadaam would have suffered more fully--sociopath megalomaniac that he was--if he were made to live to a ripe old age in a shitty prison, following orders, performing menial tasks, being beaten, eating wretched food, living like a cur.

But you can also argue that a prison sentence would be an injustice. At some point, every prisoner comes to terms with the life he has, whether it takes one year or ten years. He says, "Well this is my life," and he begin to live within that paradigm, he exists to scale.

And you have to know that at some point imprisoned Sadaam wakes up with a smile, happy to be alive, because today the food will be hot or ?this is the day I won?t be beaten,? or ?this is the day the cameramen come to ask me how I could be such a monster.? Suffering is relative, and a jailed Sadaam would have happy days.

I can see how that would be a hard pill for anyone who suffered under him to swallow?the idea that somehow, in some way, Sadaam woke up happier than me this morning AND he had my daughter killed.

Webby · 12-30-2006, 11:21 PM

Saddam... who was he again?

He's now been replaced by another group of thugs who kill daily - what's the difference??

The new thugs are sleeping with, and supported by the US. Are there "better thugs" or "worse thugs" than Saddam? Nope - they are all in the same swamp living happily together.

How does anyone feel about the all new Iraqi "democracy" and the US govt killing their families? Is it any different to Saddam? Doubt it.

There are no clean hands - just the smell of stinking swamp life, both in Iraq and in the US. They deserve each other.

Sexxxy Sites · 12-30-2006, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webby

Saddam... who was he again?

He's now been replaced by another group of thugs who kill daily - what's the difference??

The new thugs are sleeping with, and supported by the US. Are there "better thugs" or "worse thugs" than Saddam? Nope - they are all in the same swamp living happily together.

How does anyone feel about the all new Iraqi "democracy" and the US govt killing their families? Is it any different to Saddam? Doubt it.

There are no clean hands - just the smell of stinking swamp life, both in Iraq and in the US. They deserve each other.

More blather from the asswipe. It is endless.

Webby · 12-31-2006, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sexxxy Sites

More blather from the asswipe. It is endless.

Stalking threads on chatboards is unhealthy - get a real life

tony286 · 12-31-2006, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

I tell ya why you felt ill

1. Your tax dollars put him in power
2. your tax dollars kept him in power
3. your tax dollars supplied him both directly and indirectly with the chemicals he used in his chemical weapons against Iran and the Kurds.
4. Your tax dollars took him out, tried him and executed him

Im not saying we arent better off without him, we probably are but the truth is Bush needed a scapegoat and Saddam was in the right place at the right time.

Very True and most dont see it

Sexxxy Sites · 12-31-2006, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webby

Stalking threads on chatboards is unhealthy - get a real life

Get a real life??? That is a fucking joke right? You with more than 13,000 posts of which ninety plus percent are dedicated to your hatred of America. You on this board day and night spewing your hatred of America and you tell me to get a real life. You are a living (unfortunately) joke asswipe.

Webby · 12-31-2006, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sexxxy Sites

Get a real life??? That is a fucking joke right? You with more than 13,000 posts of which ninety plus percent are dedicated to your hatred of America. You on this board day and night spewing your hatred of America and you tell me to get a real life. You are a living (unfortunately) joke asswipe.

Gawd you are pathetic *lol*

I'll repeat - try and quit stalking chatboards, but hell - you can't resist it can you?

Don't worry about my posts old sicko - check your own

And thanks for your valuable contribution once again, but, excuse me - I need to post a few more threads about "hating America" *lol* Believe me - there sure is good reason with human garbage like you around. Have a good evening idiot - and remember to get a life stalker

Webby · 12-31-2006, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

I tell ya why you felt ill

1. Your tax dollars put him in power
2. your tax dollars kept him in power
3. your tax dollars supplied him both directly and indirectly with the chemicals he used in his chemical weapons against Iran and the Kurds.
4. Your tax dollars took him out, tried him and executed him

Im not saying we arent better off without him, we probably are but the truth is Bush needed a scapegoat and Saddam was in the right place at the right time.

Totally agree Mike

EscortBiz · 12-31-2006, 01:16 AM

just curious would you feel the same way if it was bin laden being hung?

Kimo · 12-31-2006, 01:20 AM

Yet another grave mistake in History.

How long until this one comes back to fuck us?

Kimo · 12-31-2006, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

just curious would you feel the same way if it was bin laden being hung?

I would.

Wouldnt you?

Webby · 12-31-2006, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

just curious would you feel the same way if it was bin laden being hung?

Dunno about bin Laden - who actually knows much about him? There is plenty bullshit content around claiming to be this, that and the other - but says very little.

That would be one trial worth having and seeing the actual evidence presented - in full (not another botched Saddam style trial with only one case heard).

And... best place for that is the ICC and totally isolated from any US or other nation involvement (excluding witness testimony - assuming there is any the US can offer).

Webby · 12-31-2006, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimo

Yet another grave mistake in History.

How long until this one comes back to fuck us?

Sure was a big mistake Kimo - assuming Osama was a player in 9/11. The people behind 9/11 were supposed to be the damned target - not some diversionary target in Iraq. Another fuckup - they never end.

Who knows... but suspect there will be more than Osama targetting the US now - thanks to that stupid diversion into Iraq. The anti has been upped several fold.

Pleasurepays · 12-31-2006, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

I tell ya why you felt ill

1. Your tax dollars put him in power
2. your tax dollars kept him in power
3. your tax dollars supplied him both directly and indirectly with the chemicals he used in his chemical weapons against Iran and the Kurds.
4. Your tax dollars took him out, tried him and executed him

Im not saying we arent better off without him, we probably are but the truth is Bush needed a scapegoat and Saddam was in the right place at the right time.

the US didn't put him in power moron.

Webby · 12-31-2006, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

the US didn't put him in power moron.

Can't remember the whole story now PP, but it all started in... think the Grosvenor Hotel, Park Lane, London in the 1970's - before Saddam was ever in govt, but well-known as a thug.

He spent almost six months in that hotel with US govt officers and there was one hell of a lot of conspiracy going on....

... the life-terminating kind.

Who will ever know the total truth about "contracts" - the only elements that are known is that there was a deal to kill govt ministers in Iran - exactly the reason Saddam was selected, because of his thug capability. In return - Saddam obviously gets some benefit and support........ and life rolls on....

Pleasurepays · 12-31-2006, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webby

Can't remember the whole story now PP, but it all started in... think the Grosvenor Hotel, Park Lane, London in the 1970's - before Saddam was ever in govt, but well-known as a thug.

He spent almost six months in that hotel with US govt officers and there was one hell of a lot of conspiracy going on....

... the life-terminating kind.

Who will ever know the total truth about "contracts" - the only elements that are known is that there was a deal to kill govt ministers in Iran - exactly the reason Saddam was selected, because of his thug capability. In return - Saddam obviously gets some benefit and support........ and life rolls on....

the US and Britain propped up the first monarchy there early in the century... Saddam came long after. he wasn't president until 79. its easy to claim everything is a conspiracy, but i don't think its easy to defend a statement like "the US put him in power"... particularly when you look at his history, the coup attempts, he role in security there for the Bathe party etc etc etc... it all led up to him becoming president. he was already more powerful and had more influence than the president he worked for before he became president. his actions were clearly his own. whether or not others agreed to embrace him should he become president is a different question entirely... that i dont doubt at all.

Webby · 12-31-2006, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

the US and Britain propped up the first monarchy there early in the century... Saddam came long after. he wasn't president until 79. its easy to claim everything is a conspiracy, but i don't think its easy to defend a statement like "the US put him in power"... particularly when you look at his history, the coup attempts, he role in security there for the Bathe party etc etc etc... it all led up to him becoming president. he was already more powerful and had more influence than the president he worked for before he became president. his actions were clearly his own. whether or not others agreed to embrace him should he become president is a different question entirely... that i dont doubt at all.

Sure.. hard to see how the US put him in power, but there sure as hell was more interference going on by the US and most prob the UK.

Was just trying to find references to the London meeting time - there were admissions by people involved that they chose Saddam (to assassinate Iranian ministers) because of his background, - basically a street thug from Tikrit. There were changes of plan and that was the reason for the delay and half year stay in London - he did eventually kill the Iranian Finance Minister and failed attempts on others.

Who knows.. the Iranian assassinations (and attempted ones) are not in dispute - that leaves the question as to why Saddam would be interested in cooperating with the US/UK in these killings. Seems there is some kinda benefit to Saddam due from these countries. Killers usually don't work for nothing :-)

12-31-2006, 02:35 AM

Quote:

On Saturday, June 26, 1993, twenty-three Tomahawk guided missiles, each loaded with a thousand pounds of high explosives, were fired from American Navy warships in the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea at the headquarters complex of the Mukhabarat, the Iraqi intelligence service, in downtown Baghdad. The attack was in response to an American determination that Iraqi intelligence, under the command of President Saddam Hussein, had plotted to assassinate former President George Bush during Bush's ceremonial visit to Kuwait in mid-April. It was President Bill Clinton's first act of war.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/con...30fr_archive02

The only reason President Bush glorified his capture, trial, and death was because he was trying to make his father proud by catching Saddam. Saddam of course did deserve to be captured and sentenced because of the crimes he made, but the only reason we're hearing about it so much now is because of the fact that Bush is diverting his priorities (ie. ending the war in iraq, sending the troops home to their families, finding bin laden, lowering our taxes- haha) is because he was making Saddam a priority for him and revenge for his father. There's even a video of him saying something on the lines of "well this man did try to kill my father", referring to Saddam. He's easier to see through than everyone lets on. And if any of you for a second buy that he was asleep during Saddams hanging, then you're all naive.

Webby · 12-31-2006, 02:47 AM

On hindsight - the perceptions/opinions of Saddam in earlier years are kinda funny....

Quote:

British diplomats who met Saddam Hussein in late 1969 shortly before he came to power assessed him to be "a presentable young man" with whom Britain could do business, newly released documents show.

The embassy officials were highly complimentary about Saddam, then in his early 30s, describing him as "the recognised heir-apparent" to the then Iraqi president, Ahmed Abu Bakr.

"A presentable young man," the assessment said in a dispatch to London dated November 15, 1969. "Initially regarded as a party extremist, but responsibility may mellow him."

Glencairn Balfour-Paul, the then British ambassador, quoted in another document placed on the internet by the US National Security Archive, said Saddam spoke "with great warmth and what certainly seemed sincerity" and had an "engaging smile".

"I should judge him, young as he is, to be a formidable, single-minded and hard-headed member of the Baathist hierarchy, but one with whom, if only we could see more of him, it would be possible to do business."

Mr Balfour-Paul said on Friday that it was immediately clear that Saddam was "a thug" but this was not the kind of language used in diplomatic telegrams back to London.

"He was already very much running things. Ahmed Bakr was just a figurehead by this time. Saddam . . . had his cousin, the other vice-president, assassinated and didn't try to hide it."

Other documents provide more details of Donald Rumsfeld's visit to Baghdad in 1984, intended to keep the US-Iraq relationship close despite Saddam's willingness to ignore terrorism and his use of chemical weapons.

They also include a confidential report on how the American company Bechtel, which has been awarded the largest US aid contract to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure, planned to breach sanctions imposed in 1988 after a chemical attack on the Kurds.

A briefing for Mr Rumsfeld, now US Defence Secretary but then a special ambassador to the Middle East, gives more detail of the approach he took on Iraq's use of chemical weapons against Iran. George Shultz, the then secretary of state, said Mr Rumsfeld should tell Saddam that recent US protests over the use of chemical weapons did not affect US relations with Iraq.

Apart from that - it's obvious there was a "relationship" with both the US and the UK - and, tho it would never be admitted - a fair chance Saddam was acting on behalf of the CIA for a number of earlier years - tho that is total supposition - but will reasoning.

Paul Markham · 12-31-2006, 02:50 AM

I think it would of been better to have held a referendum and asked the Iraqi people the simple question. Life imprisonment or death?

This would of been a blow to the insurgents and shown the true will of the people.

Webby · 12-31-2006, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I think it would of been better to have held a referendum and asked the Iraqi people the simple question. Life imprisonment or death?

This would of been a blow to the insurgents and shown the true will of the people.

Maybe not surprising Paul... if ya saw TV channels in the US when Saddam was executed, it would appear Iraqi's were totally in favor of his execution. (They even set up remote crews to show Iraqi's living in the US overjoyed

)

But... when you see international channels ... the picture changes quite a bit. The overall impression from these channels is that Iraqi's are not too happy to see him go, but have other concerns on their hands - specifically, staying alive the rest of the day.

Suppose some of these differences may arise depending on sectarian sides within Iraq - and probably an element of propaganda from the US side.

thebossxxx · 12-31-2006, 03:03 AM

Not 100% sure.. Sadaam could have possibly been a valuable source of information and was never that extreme to begin with except his hard handed ways with his people, which was wrong!

I look at Sadaan Like a mob boss, btw the godfather was his favorite film!
Thats how he ran his country..

Some people think a dictatorship type of government is the only way to stop the chaos in Iraq..
Makes ya think..

Webby · 12-31-2006, 03:11 AM

Another old quote from Reuters which, even if only a fraction is factual - suggests more involvement than is ever admitted.... and supports the concept that Saddam acted for the CIA during a period. There never were any clean hands when it came to Iraq or several other Middle East coutries.

Quote:

Ex-U.S. Official Says CIA Aided Baathists

PHILADELPHIA—If the United States succeeds in shepherding the creation of a post-war Iraqi government, a former National Security Council official says, it won't be the first time that Washington has played a primary role in changing that country's rulers.

Roger Morris, a former State Department foreign service officer who was on the NSC staff during the Johnson and Nixon administrations, says the CIA had a hand in two coups in Iraq during the darkest days of the Cold War, including a 1968 putsch that set Saddam Hussein firmly on the path to power.

Morris says that in 1963, two years after the ill-fated U.S. attempt at overthrow in Cuba known as the Bay of Pigs, the CIA helped organize a bloody coup in Iraq that deposed the Soviet-leaning government of Gen. Abdel-Karim Kassem.

"This takes you down a longer, darker road in terms of American culpability ....

"As in Iran in '53, it was mostly American money and even American involvement on the ground," says Morris, referring to a U.S.-backed coup that brought the return of the shah to neighbouring Iran.

Kassem, who had allowed communists to hold positions of responsibility in his government, was machine-gunned to death. And the country wound up in the hands of the Baath party.

At the time, Morris continues, Saddam was a Baath operative studying law in Cairo, one of the venues the CIA chose to plan the coup.

In fact, he claims the former Iraqi president castigated by President George W. Bush as one of history's most "brutal dictators" was actually on the CIA payroll in those days.

"There's no question," Morris says. "It was there in Cairo that (Saddam) and others were first contacted by the agency."

In 1968, Morris says, the CIA encouraged a palace revolt among Baath party elements led by long-time Saddam mentor Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr, who would turn over the reins of power to his ambitious protégé in 1979.

"It's a regime that was unquestionably midwived by the United States, and the (CIA's) involvement there was really primary," Morris says.

His version of history is a far cry from current American rhetoric about Iraq — a country that top U.S. officials say has been liberated from decades of tyranny and given the chance for a bright democratic future.

There's no mention of America's own alleged role in giving birth to the regime.

A spokesman for the Central Intelligence Agency declined to comment on the claims of CIA involvement in the Iraqi coups but said Morris' assertion that Saddam once received payments from the CIA is "utterly ridiculous."

Morris, who resigned from the NSC staff over the 1970 U.S. invasion of Cambodia, says he learned the details of American covert involvement in Iraq from ranking CIA officials of the day, including Teddy Roosevelt's grandson, Archibald Roosevelt.

Now 65, Morris went on to become a Nixon biographer and is currently writing a book about U.S. covert action in Afghanistan and Iraq.

He regards Saddam as a deposed U.S. client in the mold of former Philippine president Ferdinand Marcos and former Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega.

"We climb into bed with these people without really knowing anything about their politics," Morris says. "It's not unusual, of course, in American policy. We tire of these people, and we find reasons to shed them." But many experts, including foreign affairs scholars, say there is little to suggest U.S. involvement in Iraq in the 1960s.

David Wise, a Washington-based author who has written extensively about Cold War espionage, says he is only aware of records showing that a CIA group known as the "Health Alteration Committee" tried to assassinate Kassem in 1960 by sending the Iraqi leader a poisoned monogrammed handkerchief.

"Clearly, they felt that Kassem was somebody who had to be eliminated," Wise says.

Morris contends that little is known about CIA involvement in the Iraqi coups because the Middle East did not hold as much strategic importance in the 1960s and most senior U.S. officials involved there at the time have since died.

But even if the United States played no role in the rise of Iraq's Baath party, experts say Washington has obviously had to confront unintended consequences of former U.S. policies — including those of Bush's father, George H.W. Bush, who was CIA director before becoming president.

"There are always some unintended consequences," says Helmut Sonnenfeldt, guest scholar in foreign policy studies at the Brookings Institution and former NSC staffer.

"There were unintended consequences in World War I that brought the rise of Hitler."

The United States and other Western powers supported Saddam's regime during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war, even after the Baghdad government used chemical weapons to kill thousands of Kurdish villagers in Halabja.

The 1988 atrocity recently was a cornerstone of U.S. justifications for its war to topple Saddam's regime.

Before war broke out last month, a flurry of U.S. headlines also called attention to reports that pathogens used by Iraq for its biological warfare program came from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and a private Manassas, Va.-based biological samples repository called the American Type Culture Collection.

Officials at the two institutions said shipments of anthrax, West Nile virus, botulinum toxins and other pathogens were sent to Iraq in the 1980s with U.S. commerce department approval for medical research purposes.

Even Iraq's alleged nuclear weapons program, which U.S. officials said was on the verge of producing a nuclear bomb last year, got under way with help from a 1950s Eisenhower administration program to share the peaceful benefits of nuclear energy called "Atoms for Peace."

That is according to the Nuclear Threat Initiative, a Washington-based group co-founded by media mogul Ted Turner and former U.S. senator Sam Nunn to reduce the global threat of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons.

James Phillips, senior Middle East analyst for the Heritage Foundation, disagrees that Bush's war in Iraq is the result of CIA involvement.

But he says the United States did turn a blind eye to the chance to topple Saddam during the 1991 Gulf War, just as it left Afghanistan to the mercy of the Taliban and Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda network after Soviet forces left that country.

"I am reminded of the biblical expression about the sins of the father," Phillips says.

"The first Bush administration was the one that decided to cut off aid to the mujahideen in Afghanistan and set them adrift. And they were also the ones who decided not to go to Baghdad during the first Gulf War."

12-30-2006, 09:35 PM	#1
Twisted Dave Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,635	Saddam shouldn't have been killed ... ??? The title of this thread is not my opinion, fact or a statement of what anyone I know thinks ... Just opening this up and wondering ... I mean .... who thinks it's right that you take a life for a life (or lives) ? I watched some footage on Sky News of him being taken to the rope and saw the guys in black headmasks talking to him etc .... And I felt ill .... I don't know, but .... it just seems to me that the whole death penalty thing is wrong. I know it's an old debate, but shit ... killing a guy. It's morally wrong. Aren't we (the supporters) as bad as him for this ? He killed people... with no remorse. But does that mean we have the right to take his life? I dunno ... I'm feeling a little uneasy about this. Btw: Saddam is just one example of the thousands that have been killed by governments as punishment... and I'm using him as an example, but really, this goes out to every execution. __________________ Custom Cartoon Mascots - ICQ: 243355699, Email: [email protected] or Click Sig - 15% referrals. Send me clients, make money!

12-30-2006, 09:40 PM	#2
Dagwolf President of Canada Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leaving Hell, Entering Limbo Posts: 23,141	Be compassionate enough to care when you have to put down a rabid animal, but be strong enough to do it. __________________ Sleep well, and dream of large women.

12-30-2006, 09:42 PM	#3
spunkmaster Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,052	They should have sawed his head off with a sword like they did to Dan Perl ! __________________

12-30-2006, 09:45 PM	#4
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	I tell ya why you felt ill 1. Your tax dollars put him in power 2. your tax dollars kept him in power 3. your tax dollars supplied him both directly and indirectly with the chemicals he used in his chemical weapons against Iran and the Kurds. 4. Your tax dollars took him out, tried him and executed him Im not saying we arent better off without him, we probably are but the truth is Bush needed a scapegoat and Saddam was in the right place at the right time. __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

12-30-2006, 09:48 PM	#6
Twisted Dave Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,635	but ... i mean ... isn't Saddam just being used as a scapegoat for this whole thing? The war on terror? Yes, he played a part ... but Bush is making him out to be the single biggest target etc etc ... Well, actually, the war on terror is just a publicity machine, and Saddam was the latest star ... I mean ... one man hung will NOT change the way these mental cases act when they want to blow someone up ... What happened to Osama? What about North Korea. .. what about all these other targets who for some time appear to be on the agenda, but then fade away. I remember when Osama was the hot topic ... he got away, fucked off ... had a good old time ... Bush lost him, so moved on. He needed a distinct target that was visible to the public, and that he knew he could get... So Saddam... Not saying Saddam was innocent and should have been patted on the back, but he definitely was the scapegoat I think.... Anyways ... it's interesting reading all the views. Some of them are sick and fucking odd ... some people on GFY are gagging to see the death ... in a freaky kind of way... and some are against the death. __________________ Custom Cartoon Mascots - ICQ: 243355699, Email: [email protected] or Click Sig - 15% referrals. Send me clients, make money!

12-30-2006, 09:45 PM	#5
Mr.Right - Banned For Life I guarantee it Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 18,314	I am all for the death penalty.

12-30-2006, 09:56 PM	#8
amacontent STANLEY CUP CHAMPION ! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 12,875	You would sing a different tune if your mother or father was tortured and killed by him __________________ Joe Loughlin [email protected] TEAM- joeloughlin. Telegram - AMA_JOE https://www.amaproduction.com

12-30-2006, 09:58 PM	#9
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	yer right my bad I ASSumed you were US but what I am saying holds. I'm just uneasy about it because truth is we (Americans) have almost as much culpability in it all as Saddam did __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

12-30-2006, 10:21 PM	#12
he-fox Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Playa del Carmen, Mexico Posts: 2,884	I look at all Saddam thingy as a internal irakian affair, even that it´s true America was connected to him in one way or another through all his leadership year. And from this prospective, hanging him was an well deserved act of justice in the memory of his fellow irakians that he butchered over the years.

12-30-2006, 10:26 PM	#13
auscguy Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: downunder Posts: 111	You are right, he shouldnt have been hung......its too quick. He shouldve been stoned then impailed, in truew Iraqi tradition!

12-30-2006, 11:05 PM	#16
TSGlider Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 673	One could argue that he deserved to die for his crimes. This is an easy argument to win. He is responsible for killing a lot of people. He's responsible for wrecking the lives of everyone--mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers--who had a stake in the lives of those he killed. These are people who will live with a profound loss, a, forgive the melodrama but homicide is melodramatic, a deep, profound hollowness for the rest of their days. At the same time, you can argue that sadaam would have suffered more fully--sociopath megalomaniac that he was--if he were made to live to a ripe old age in a shitty prison, following orders, performing menial tasks, being beaten, eating wretched food, living like a cur. But you can also argue that a prison sentence would be an injustice. At some point, every prisoner comes to terms with the life he has, whether it takes one year or ten years. He says, "Well this is my life," and he begin to live within that paradigm, he exists to scale. And you have to know that at some point imprisoned Sadaam wakes up with a smile, happy to be alive, because today the food will be hot or ?this is the day I won?t be beaten,? or ?this is the day the cameramen come to ask me how I could be such a monster.? Suffering is relative, and a jailed Sadaam would have happy days. I can see how that would be a hard pill for anyone who suffered under him to swallow?the idea that somehow, in some way, Sadaam woke up happier than me this morning AND he had my daughter killed. __________________ BaDoink skype: tsglider

12-30-2006, 11:21 PM	#17
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Saddam... who was he again? He's now been replaced by another group of thugs who kill daily - what's the difference?? The new thugs are sleeping with, and supported by the US. Are there "better thugs" or "worse thugs" than Saddam? Nope - they are all in the same swamp living happily together. How does anyone feel about the all new Iraqi "democracy" and the US govt killing their families? Is it any different to Saddam? Doubt it. There are no clean hands - just the smell of stinking swamp life, both in Iraq and in the US. They deserve each other. __________________ XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.

12-31-2006, 01:16 AM	#24
EscortBiz Fuck Checks, CASH only! Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 19,422	just curious would you feel the same way if it was bin laden being hung? __________________ Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts ICQ# 158802076

12-31-2006, 01:20 AM	#25
Kimo ... Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Maryland ICQ:87038677 Posts: 11,542	Yet another grave mistake in History. How long until this one comes back to fuck us? __________________ ...

12-31-2006, 02:50 AM	#35
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	I think it would of been better to have held a referendum and asked the Iraqi people the simple question. Life imprisonment or death? This would of been a blow to the insurgents and shown the true will of the people. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

12-31-2006, 03:03 AM	#37
thebossxxx Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 3,209	Not 100% sure.. Sadaam could have possibly been a valuable source of information and was never that extreme to begin with except his hard handed ways with his people, which was wrong! I look at Sadaan Like a mob boss, btw the godfather was his favorite film! Thats how he ran his country.. Some people think a dictatorship type of government is the only way to stop the chaos in Iraq.. Makes ya think.. __________________ www.IncredibleDollars.com $50 PPS w/Trials 60% *Rev Share 60% w/no Pre checked cross sales! & and If pre checks are crossed you get $50 bucks! www.IncredibePass.com www.TitsandAssPass.com 100% Exclusive content guarenteed! Glenn at Incredible dollars dot com Our Best Converting sites: BTCA, Hot60Plus HairyNaturalGirls Sororitysistas, Sweetyurizan, Bbwdepot Blackbootyinvasion AriaValentino BigBoobsfatBooty UnivesrityBubbleButts Momsacheater Arabstreethookers whitecicksinblackchicks AsianchicksAmericanDicks