fuzzylogic

Any "civilian" in Iraq killed by US forces or Iraqi police was a potential terrorist. Good Riddens! Hope you rot in hell you anti-Christians!

If the word of Jesus was spread in Iraq the violence would fall dramaticly.

wyldworx

bit of a statement to make, I dunno, maybe....

Myst

idiot (678)

fuzzylogic

you live in canada, so this thread doesnt apply to you.
you dont vote in US elections.

but thx for posting!

Myst

I didnt realize this was a US election thread
Here I was thinking it was another dumbass-who-must-rant-but-doesnt-know-a-damn-thing thread

fuzzylogic

lol, close!
but i am pretending. sooo... shhhh.. don't tell anyone please. in my 1st post, the line about Jesus was an actually recent statement by one of our lawmakers

fuzzylogic

oh, and remember.. the US is there to make our homeland safer. soooo... any deaths as a result of our occupation are in the name of preserving our safety. then who is dying? those that would threaten our safety, i presume.

fuzzylogic

this thread is gonna die fast, isnt it?

fatfoo

ALaah Ahbaar!!

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DBS.US

The Iraqi war never happened. It was filmed on the back lot at Universal Studios.

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pornguy

Of course thoes that are dieing there would threaten out safety.

Dont you realize the spec sgt Gomez that was killed by a car bomb would have gone postal here if he had not been sent over there to be killed.

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Webby

Mmmm Assumptions are dangerous... "the US is there to make our homeland safer". Two points:

(a) The Iraqi people never gave a shit about the US or the "homeland" and could not care less about attacking it.

(b) The US killed *many* innocent Iraqi people - and that gets folks kinda angry. This translates to (c) below...

(c) The US has succeeded in making the homeland a more dangerous place and subject to attack by far more than the Iraqi people. Remember "Shock and Awe"? Expect a replay at some future time but in US territory. Fuck with people and they will fuck you back.

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crockett

Just because they were killed in Iraq doesn't mean US troops or Iraqi police did it. Last time I checked the news, there were these insurgent guys over there blowing the shit out of everything.

unless they are saying it was killed bu US specifically

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DaddyHalbucks

The US tried hard to avoid civilian kills. But it's kinda hard to do that when a dictator uses his own people as human shields and has no regard for their well being.

Some have estimated that Saddam killed millions of people.

To some extent the Iraqi people have to share blame for Saddam, the war, etc.. Even if it is only a small amount, they need to take stock. Citizens are the ultimate sovereign. If they allow criminals like Saddam to control them, bad things happen. The Iraqi people should have overthrown Saddam by any means necessary.

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alexg

this could get long....

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Webby

Bollocks! The US never tried fuck all to avoid civilian killings. Instead the US government started a fucking war based on nothing and bragged about bombing the fuck out of Baghdad in a dramatically titled military operation called "Shock and Awe".

It's not about Saddam any longer - he's dead. This thread is about US killing rates in Iraq, - add to that torture and hell knows what else. Never think the US did anyone a favor by messing in the affairs of another nation - yet again.

Also don't bother about "dictators" - that never stopped the US in the past. There was no problem with US military training military officers of oppressive dictatorships in torture techniques and funding regimes of murder and terror.

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Webby

And on the above ....

To some extent the US people have to share blame for Bush, the war, etc.. Even if it is only a small amount, they need to take stock. Citizens are the ultimate sovereign. If they allow criminals like Bush to control them, bad things happen. The US people should have overthrown Bush by any means necessary.

Accountablity is a good thing - especially in a democracy where there is a claimed freedom to vote trash into power - not once, but twice. That is one damning indictment for any country. Forget Iraq, clean your own backyard up first.

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crockett

You know I don't support the war or anything but saying US is killing civilians on purpose is a load of crap. Guess what, right or wrong us being there it's a freaking war. People die all the time in wars. Civilians die all the time in wars.

What was the last war you know of that less than 35k civilians were killed in one year?

Why not get out raged by the mass killings in the "country of the month" in Africa? You want to talk about torture look at those African countries and what they do. Look at what goes on throughout the middle east, makes anything we might do wrong pale in comparison.

Again I don't support the war, but since when did no one die or get hurt in any war? Why has it all of the sudden become necessary that any war waged by the US have no civilian deaths or injuries?

I will bet you anything that, there has never been a war that's lasted as long as this one has, that an army has gone so far out of it's way to avoid civilian deaths.

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sarettah

Hmm, that comes out to about $15,000,000 a terrorist.

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Webby

I never said the US military is killing civilians on purpose - and sure hope they are not Sure, there are "incidents" where this has happened (more than has been uncovered) - and not a happy scenario, but not suggesting this is a policy in any way.

Sure.. engage in a bombing spree on a city and of course there will be many civilians killed - that was a Pentagon choice.

Iraq is an elected "occupation" - the "war" ended a few years ago. For an occupation, 35,000 civilians killed is a total disaster and those who initiated the original elected "war" need fucking hung.

Sorry crockett, but value any human life, no matter which side and even more when innocent people are killed thru the idiocy of trash who should know better.

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Martin

lol

Webby

Sounds about right - tho who says they were all terrorists??

If the figure of 35K is remotely accurate (could be more or less) - the chances of all these people being conveniently "terrorists" is like living in lala land.

If anyone thinks there were 35,000 "terrorists" who presented themselves to be killed in Iraq - again, more fantasy than anything.

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crockett

Yea but the point is, most of these deaths were caused by insurgents attacking civilians by guns, or explosives.

Take a look at http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/ it's one of the more accurate non biased databases. You don't see too many that say killed by US soldiers. However you see a hell of a lot that were killed by the insurgents.

The point of this topic was trying to make it look as if the US military had killed 35k civilians last year which is very far from the truth.

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Webby

BTW... that reported 35K deaths was a total of Iraqis who had died in 2006 in violence across the country. It covers supposedly all deaths resulting from the US occupation and from the various sectarian killings.

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fuzzylogic

u have won an award for seeing through my bullshit! w2g!

however, this occupation IS a total disaster

fuzzylogic

but i was making the spin that less iraqis = less potential terrorists = genocide

Webby

Hear ya crockett!

Well.. according to the iraqibodycount website - it appears the occupation forces never fired a shot in December or killed anyone? Duh? They might as well leave since there is no purpose in being there - they can't control the violence and they are the reason the whole shit started in the first place.

Sure.. agree - that 35K figure is not related to US military killings in particular.

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crockett

Yes it's a disaster, but I still give our troops credit for the lack of civilian deaths caused by our fire. Remember one thing in WW2 it was common for 20k-40k civilians to die in a single month much less a year. Hell some months were in the 100k range of dead civilians.

So I'd say being we are fighting in heavily populated battlefields, I'd say 35k is a low number especially when you consider most of that 35k probably around 70 or 80% were killed by the insurgents.

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fuzzylogic

poor comparison.
1st
ww2 was a war
the iraq war ended years ago. the 35k statistic is during a non-war year.
2nd
in ww2 arial bomb raids were performed in which vast amounts of civilian buildings were destroyed.
that technique is not used currently in iraq.

the iraqi war is way more similar to the vietnam war than to ww2, silly!

Webby

That does not stand up fuzzy

Iraqi people are not "terrorists" any more than you or I. They are (or were) also not interested in embarking on stupid attacks on the US or anywhere else - but, who knows, there are probably a few more now who do have very good reason for revenge.

I don't know about the internal problems there - prob few do unless they live with it - and that's not likely to go away anytime soon. The puppet government is a farce and populated by crooks who employ death squads.

The US govt thought they were smartasses and elected to start the ball rolling on this shit by invading based on lies - but in reality had no clue of the realities of Iraqi culture. (Seriously believe the higher levels of US govt were totally genuinely clueless - events have since supported this view).

Bets on, the US will try and find a way to "escape" with a face of "we have liberated Iraq and it is now the responsibilty of the Iraqi govt to take over" and attempt to proclaim a success Either way, reality is a swell of "anti US" throughout the Middle East and and increasing desire for revenge and Iraq will not change. Whoever the strongest thug is - they will be the leader and supported by more thugs - all with an "anti US" agenda. Sadly, it's a total fuckup, but not a surprise.

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crockett

Not really.. I was comparing the areas of fighting. Both Iraq and ww2 in Europe theater had a lot of bombing/ ground fighting in cities or populated areas. Much like Iraq has had. Just in Iraq much more care was taken on the bombing end of things compared to ww2. That was the point I was trying to make.

Even at the start of the war when Saddam was still in power our bombings and rocket attacks were very carefully planed to avoid as many civilian deaths as possible.

The type of fighting in Iraq would of course compare to more Vietnam, meaning fighting an insurgency rather than a real army. That and the govt not having an actual plan to win..

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Webby

It's hard to compare WW2 with Iraq - not least because WW2 was a "legitimate war" and not an elected adventure by the US to invade based on total bullshit.

Other factors are - both sides in WW2 were opposing forces armed with "real weaponary". This is not the situation in Iraq - the "opposing forces" are labelled "insurgents" or "terrorists" and fight with the tools they can muster - they don't have Apache copters or bomber aircraft.

For a war based on lies - any deaths of civilians, whether by alleged "surgical strikes" or not, is totally unacceptable to most people. And, in reality - those claimed surgical strikes killed many thousands of innocent people and injured/maimed many 1000's more. Little doubts this created a number of genuine terrorists with a desire to kill any US person they can find. Sow the seed and reap the fruit...

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sarettah

Ok, potential terrorists. Picky picky

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They Say That In The Marine Corps;

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Klen

Just one more argument why war in iraq was big mistake.They was only need to shoot Sadam and nothing else.

Historic Erotica

you people talk about this as if 35k dead people is acceptable or ok..wow..all brothers and sisters and husbands of someone..they die part of us does to..we are all in this together..the top of the pyramid dont give to shits about any of us..watch closely whats happens to Jose Padilla..if you live in the US you could be next..he was born in Chi-Town btw not Iraq or anywhere else..the power is at the bottom of the pyramid not the top..

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Lazonby

I see that my favourite lying socialist is here to educate you all. Roffle.

beerdude

Klen im going to eduacate you now,
Do you not realize that petro is the life blood of this world,
do you not realize the us of a will protect are intrest as such.
Do you really think we should stand bac and let iran take control of the middle east.
Who were the most against this france and germany, who had illegal oil contracts with iraq, hmm i wonder
common sense and logic will always prevail.

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Historic Erotica

I got love for you no matter what ism ir ist you try and tag on me..ever think thats why the world is so foul..comments like that..instantly taking a side when someone speaks from the heart..its just the world we will leave our children..no biggy I guess..any hostility towards anyone is just a reflection of ones true self..

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Historic Erotica

all started and financed by the SAME people (thats right both sides)..thats the tradegy here..same forces are at work now..they only have power to do these things because we collectively give it to them..

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Historic Erotica

all started and financed by the SAME people (thats right both sides)..thats the tradegy here..same forces are at work now..they only have power to do these things because we collectively give it to them..

and oil the life blood of this world..where the heck did you find that info..its only life blood of this world because at this point and time big oil tells you it is..amazing how people will believe what they hear and then pass it on to others as if they know for sure..WOW..

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Lazonby

Dude, that was just a noise.

I wasn't talking about you anyway. If I spoke about you, then I'd mention something about that 'reborn Jesus' guy whose books you lilke to read.

beerdude

You allneed to realize that if it wasnt for oil this whole entire region would be one sheet of glass who in their right mind would tolerate this horsesht crp thy inflict on themselves day after day.

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HelpAbumOut

Historic Erotica

its amazing to me how you make someone elses slanted views of someone you know absolutely nothing about your opinion..think for yourself man..have you read Ickes books..I bet not..so to talk about his views or ideas is really well..well..well..read his books..I will gladly send you one..GLADLY..then you can speak from your heart about it because then you will have your own opinion..
and btw it has nothing to do with Jesus it has to do with free thought..using someone else thoughts is rather sad..it just means you are controlled VERY EASILY..no matter how mad or wrong you think that is..truth is truth..

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12clicks

ahahahaha, the typical idiot, factless rant.

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12clicks

really, honey?
please explain what happens if the oil taps are shut off tomorrow.

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Historic Erotica

I guess that would depend on alot of factors..like what do you have as a alternative..seems to me with the amount of technology we claim to have in this world we could come up with a alternative..but the big money elite sell oil not alternatives..
I just happen to believe there are alternative solutions ready now..but if you are the one at the top of the pyramid controlling the minds of the sheep below you then you tell them what is nessacary to run a world..
I have friends who live there life free of anything oil or gas based..wind and solar run there households..I heat my home with wood and my water is gravity pumped..but thats just me..
if you believe oil is what we need then thats what creates your reality..

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Choppa

i think i know why so many iraqis were killed

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Lazonby

Again, that was just a noise.

Historic Erotica

so thats means your interested in borrowing a book??

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