Aaron Russo's Freedom to fascism - What the fuck?

[The Duck]

Just watched this masterpiece, one of the most impressing movies about the federal reserver system in America and the (not so) hidden fascism of the rulers.

Here is the summary..

There is NO LAW that requires americans to pay income tax from labour, it has been settled in court many times but is kept from the public eye by the media.

A private bank called the federal reserve prints the dollar bills and lends to the american government. This was settled in 1913.

The money printed by the federal reserve has no gold backing it but is printed out of thin air, like monopoly money.

The federal reserve charges interest on the money they lend to the american government which they printed out of thin air.

The interest paid to the federal reserves private bankers are the income tax of the american people. This means that the money you pay in taxes for income from labour if you are american goes straight into the pockets of private bankers as interest on loans.

There is much much more, see the movie if this interests you. This is just the main plot.

Now my question is why the fuck are the american people submitting to this obvious tyranny? Where is the revolution?

[pocketkangaroo]

Actually, the Supreme Court has ruled time and time again that you have to pay income tax. They are the ones that interpret the laws and make sure they are constitutional. That guy can say whatever he wants, but the courts over the centuries have said otherwise.

[Phoenix]

just saw V for Vendetta last night

[stickyfingerz]

I have no urge to worry about a country I dont live ins laws. Doesnt Sweederland have a huge suicide rate?

[The Duck]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

I have no urge to worry about a country I dont live ins laws. Doesnt Sweederland have a huge suicide rate?

Me neither, except when other countries rulers are cold hearted dictators ruining everything for the rest of the world for their own personal gain.

[The Duck]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

Actually, the Supreme Court has ruled time and time again that you have to pay income tax. They are the ones that interpret the laws and make sure they are constitutional. That guy can say whatever he wants, but the courts over the centuries have said otherwise.

Please dont just say things when you have no clue. The supreme court have ruled that americans do NOT have to pay income tax time and time again. The supreme court and the constitution says the income tax for labour is NOT consitutional. And if you read the constitution you see that so is the case..

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by kandah

Please dont just say things when you have no clue. The supreme court have ruled that americans do NOT have to pay income tax time and time again.

Show me one case where they have said that. I will show you hundreds where they have said you do.

[The Duck]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

Show me one case where they have said that. I will show you hundreds where they have said you do.

Okay, no problem.

In 1894, the U.S. Supreme Court decided that the income tax was unconstitutional because it was not apportioned among the states in conformity with the Constitution.

Now lets see those hundreds of cases that dont exist.

Learn your own fucking history, embarrasing that someone from across the atlantic must point it out to you.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by kandah

Okay, no problem.

In 1894, the U.S. Supreme Court decided that the income tax was unconstitutional because it was not apportioned among the states in conformity with the Constitution.

Now lets see those hundreds of cases that dont exist.

Learn your own fucking history, embarrasing that someone from across the atlantic must point it out to you.

Ficalora vs Commissioner
Sisk vs Commissioner
United States vs Sitka
United States vs Stahl
Brown vs Commissioner
Lysiak vs Commissioner
Miller vs United States
United States vs Benson
Ivey vs United States

Please show me what case you are talking about. Name the case please.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by kandah

In 1894

The 16th Amendment to the Constitution was ratified in 1913. It would override any previous decisions that were made by the courts. The 16th Amendment States:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

[The Duck]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

Ficalora vs Commissioner
Sisk vs Commissioner
United States vs Sitka
United States vs Stahl
Brown vs Commissioner
Lysiak vs Commissioner
Miller vs United States
United States vs Benson
Ivey vs United States

Please show me what case you are talking about. Name the case please.

Those are not supreme court cases, you said hundreds?

Here is another one:

Washington State Supreme Court declares citizen-approved state income tax unconstitutional on September 8, 1933.

On September 8, 1933, the Washington State Supreme Court declares the state?s one-year-old, citizen-approved income tax unconstitutional. Some legal scholars call the reasoning behind the 5-4 decision ?tortured? (Roberts). A business-and-occupation tax (which taxes gross receipts of businesses) and a citizen-approved 40-mill (four cent) limit per assessed dollar on property taxes, however, are judged constitutional.

Washington a Property-Tax State

The property tax is a "regressive tax" -- one in which poor and middle-class families pay a far greater percentage of their income in taxes than do the wealthy. The property tax has been Washington state?s primary revenue source since statehood in 1889, but with the progressive period at the turn of the century came demands for reform. Increased demands for government services drove property taxes higher, forcing many farmers into foreclosure.

Washingtonians overwhelmingly supported the Federal Income Tax amendment to the U.S. constitution, ratified on February 3, 1913.

Efforts to pass a state income tax began to accelerate in the 1920s. Farmers, represented by the Washington State Grange, the Washington Education Association (WEA), and urban workers formed a loose coalition to broaden the tax structure.

An income tax proposal passed the Washington State Senate in 1929, but died in a House of Representatives committee. In 1931, a Tax Advisory Committee and the State Tax Commission supported measures proposing personal and corporate income taxes. The bills passed both houses of the state legislature, but Governor Roland Hartley (1864-1952), an obstreperous Republican and Everett lumberman, vetoed them.

Movement for an Income Tax

With the Democratic sweep of 1932, in the depth of the Great Depression, Democrats controlled Washington?s state legislature and all congressional seats. The Parent-Teacher Association (PTA), the Seattle Central Labor Council, the Washington State Grange, and WEA endorsed the graduated income tax. Voters overwhelming (70 percent) approved Initiative 69, which mandated a graduated income tax. Voters also approved a 40-mill (four cent) limit per assessed dollar on property taxes, another issue that would remain contentious.

Under the property tax, farmers were losing their land to foreclosure. In addition, the state was not bringing in enough money to provide adequate services. The state unemployment rate topped 25 percent, and the burden of aid and services to the jobless was draining public coffers. ?Our present tax system is on the verge of collapse,? said M. K. Norton, president of the Washington State Assessor?s Association (Roberts).

Challenges to the Income Tax

Two lawsuits challenged the new income tax law. Thurston County Superior Court Judge D. F. Wright consolidated them, declaring the law ?unconstitutional.? Wright?s ruling was appealed to the Washington State Supreme Court, which upheld it. The majority decision interpreted income as property and said an income tax would violate the state constitution?s taxation equality requirement.

In response the State Legislature passed a bill authorizing a ?temporary? business-and-occupation tax. This tax on "gross receipts" (not profits) of businesses became permanent.

[Wizzo]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

The 16th Amendment to the Constitution was ratified in 1913. It would override any previous decisions that were made by the courts. The 16th Amendment States:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Damn beat me to it, but we all know that can't be true because the movie said different??? hahaha

[The Duck]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

The 16th Amendment to the Constitution was ratified in 1913. It would override any previous decisions that were made by the courts. The 16th Amendment States:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Problem is that this was not passed by most states, they just kind of did it anyway.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by kandah

Here is another one:

That is a state income tax and has nothing to do with federal income tax.

[juz]

Don't we get someone blabbing about this movie every few weeks......
As pocketkangaroo pointed out the 16 amendment gives the government the right to tax our income, end of story game over.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by kandah

Problem is that this was not passed by most states, they just kind of did it anyway.

42 states ratified it. Two-thirds is all that was needed.

[The Duck]

Alright, you keep living in ignorance, I dont care.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by kandah

Alright, you keep living in ignorance, I dont care.

Those are all facts. I'm sorry that you have nothing to back up your argument. You can't provide any court cases after 1913, can't discredit the ratification process, can't really do much of anything to dispute it.

Take it as a lesson not to believe everything you see on YouTube.

[The Duck]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...dom+to+fascism

Yes MR Kangoroo, now I understand why the fascist have gotten as far as they have in america, because of people like you. "Just because they say its so it must be so, lets watch tv!"

[juz]

Originally Posted by kandah

Alright, you keep living in ignorance, I dont care.

You're the one living in ignorance, taking the word of some movie as fact, do your own research. Look at it this way, do you think in past 100 years the rich and powerful of America would paying income tax if they didn't have to?
Why are they paying high priced attorneys and accounts to find loopholes in the tax laws and set up tax shelters if the US government has no right to tax our income?
They have the means for the research and legal backing to fight it but they don't..... Hmmmmmmmmmm

My suggestion to you is to go read on how amendments are ratified and become law, go read law books not watch a biased movie with an agenda to meet.

[The Duck]

Woodrow Wilson, The man who signed the federal reserve act said this:

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by kandah

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...dom+to+fascism

Yes MR Kangoroo, now I understand why the fascist have gotten as far as they have in america, because of people like you. "Just because they say its so it must be so, lets watch tv!"

I didn't say anything was true. The states, courts, and people did. Your argument is with them, not me. They put the Amendment in place, the states voted it in, and the courts upheld every attack on it. I am not arguing about income taxes, I'm just saying that his arguments about it not being constitutional are wrong.

I also don't see why you are so upset with our income tax. Our taxes make Sweden's look like small potatoes.

[The Duck]

I am going to find cases and proof, give me some time and I will be back later to show you.

[The Duck]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

I didn't say anything was true. The states, courts, and people did. Your argument is with them, not me. They put the Amendment in place, the states voted it in, and the courts upheld every attack on it. I am not arguing about income taxes, I'm just saying that his arguments about it not being constitutional are wrong.

I also don't see why you are so upset with our income tax. Our taxes make Sweden's look like small potatoes.

Im not saying we are good at anything, Sweden is a puppet of the US.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by kandah

Problem is that this was not passed by most states, they just kind of did it anyway.

I no longer mind this idiot bad mouthing me. it can only make me look good in the eyes of intelligent people.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by kandah

I am going to find cases and proof, give me some time and I will be back later to show you.

If you find something, send it to every lawyer and accountant in the US. If there was really something out there that said we didn't have to pay taxes, don't you think someone would have figured it out by now?

[juz]

why are you wasting your time kangdah? It's law here but if by chance a person filed suit against the US government/IRS and won establishing that they have no right to tax our income, how long do you think it would take the congress to re ratify the 16th amendment? A day 2 at the most, it would be quickest ratification in US history.

I do find it ironic that a Euro is complaining about US tax laws though, you guys believe in tax more then you do freedom of speech, I also wonder if you would even be making an issue of this if there had been a democrat in the whitehouse for the psat 7 years.

[The Duck]

http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/new/theman.asp

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by kandah

Woodrow Wilson, The man who signed the federal reserve act said this:

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

The first two sentences in that are made up. There is no documentation of him ever saying it. Just people on conspiracy websites using it.

The rest is from his book "The New Freedom". He also altered parts of that paragraph as well.

If you don't believe me, pick up the book and see for yourself.

[The Duck]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

If you find something, send it to every lawyer and accountant in the US. If there was really something out there that said we didn't have to pay taxes, don't you think someone would have figured it out by now?

People have figured it out and people have won cases but since the fourth branch of the government aka the media is ignoring this fact nobody knows and cares.

http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/new/theman.asp

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by kandah

http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/new/theman.asp

His argument was addressed in United States v. Thomas. It lost.

[stickyfingerz]

Here is an idea. Go fix your site and let us worry about our own country.

Welcome to Monica's Models, the place on the web to download and buy high quality adult content. Check out our very generous license here.

WE WHERE HACKED AND LOST OUR ENTIRE SERVER ALONG WITH ALL FILES, WE ARE CURRENTLY REBUILDING THE SITE FROM BACKUPS AND FIXING PROBLEMS WITH CODE. EVERYTHING WILL BE BACK TO NORMAL SOON. NO CUSTOMER DATA WAS STOLEN OR EVEN AVALIBLE TO THE HACKERS.

[juz]

Originally Posted by kandah

People have figured it out and people have won cases but since the fourth branch of the government aka the media is ignoring this fact nobody knows and cares.

http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/new/theman.asp

Wrong the 4th branch of government here is $$$, and if there are cases won against the US government, lawyers would be all over it making fat cash off of people suing the US for refunds of monies paid.
But instead you use the words of some old man who has a website set up to sell you books as fact.

Precedent on this has already been set by the Supreme Court, you can bitch moan and cry all you want but if a US citizen refuses to pay income tax hes rolling the dice on whether or not he will prosecuted and serve jail time.

[cykoe6]

This is officially the stupidest thread I have ever seen. Are all people from Sweden this gullible?

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by kandah

Im not saying we are good at anything, Sweden is a puppet of the US.

how are you calling people ignorant? or telling people to start a revolution if you feel this way about YOUR country?

btw, what would sweden be a puppet for? To balance power in scandinavia?

do you KNOW the definition of ignorance?

R

[madawgz]

well i dont have time to read all this thread

i just wanted to drop my reply in here saying that i need to see this movie