BlackCrayon

sorry but there is a huge difference in everything you mentioned there, the main one being that the transaction takes place *face to face*.

also other than the bank, which only asks for id for large foreign checks (at least for me) none of the people looking at my id have it stored anywhere. unless the people im showing my id to are robots scanning my id with their eyes.

there are certain people who just won't send such information. i know a lot of hosting companies are doing this now, i refuse to do business with any of them. its just a matter of principal for me. its all fine and well to cover their ass but nothing covers mine. nothing ensures me something won't happen to my id, nothing ensures me that i will actually get paid. nothing proves who you are besides your site. sure quickbuck has been around for a long time and people know they pay but if this becomes standard for affiliate programs i can easily see it being abused.

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Quick Buck

Many different ways to defraud programs, but many times we find that the chargebacks or refunds associated with the fraudulent signups do not come through til the funds have been paid.

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spunkmister

This coming from a fucking sig whore...jesus

Quick Buck

you're ugly and your momma dresses you funny.

ping oc3networks.com
PING oc3networks.com (66.63.160.51): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 66.63.160.51: icmp_seq=0 ttl=51 time=89.556 ms
64 bytes from 66.63.160.51: icmp_seq=1 ttl=51 time=91.290 ms

ping webair.com
PING webair.com (209.200.29.36): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 209.200.29.36: icmp_seq=0 ttl=245 time=9.766 ms
64 bytes from 209.200.29.36: icmp_seq=1 ttl=245 time=13.096 ms

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spunkmister

Not sure if this will stop the fraud but if you dont want to send the ID then dont...why bitch about it? Move on and as some have pointed out there are plently of sponsors out there that dont require it. But I think the guys who make real money from QB (and I dont mean $50 a week) would have already verified their ID.

If you dont like the policy that a company chooses to administer then leave.

Klen

The fact is quickbuck is in the shitlist,and this only confirm it.

spunkmister

what shitlist are you talking about? Do you sigwhores have a secret site somewhere that you list all the bad companies to sigwhore for?

Quick Buck

in engrish?

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Klen

On second largest adult webmaster thread.There are a lot of shit threads about quickbuck and that is why i avoid that sponsor as devil.

SomeCreep

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spunkmister

Yes I am sure they are about to close shop soon cause you arn't sending your 40 hits a year to them.

And I know what forum you are talking about and that issue has to do with a personal nature with that boards owner...but I'm sure if your english writing skills are anything to go by then you probably missed that point when reading those threads.

Quick Buck

He's talking about the pond for those who are interested. The owner of the pond is throwing a little tantrum because of some domains we owned at one point.

They smoked too much pot and forgot that they were very happy that we bought them before they owned the pond again. When we owned them and pointed them to meat's board for free for years they seemed happy about it.

It's not worth our time and money to have lawyers make him take it down right now, we figure we'll wait a few years til we can prove it's damaged our business (with lots of threads like this where people refer to it as the reason they wont do business with us) and then we'll sue them for damages.

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Quick Buck

*late edit* we offered to sell them the names for the regfee... they declined to take them, then they expired and now they are parking pages, a big win for everybody involved

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Quick Buck

*even later edit* we actually signed transfer agreements (for free) for a few of the other names, but the owners didn't care enough to complete the transfer, so we still own them by shear laziness. the shitlist knows not what they speak of.

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SmokeyTheBear

none of that has anything to do with i.d.

I guess google's accountants must suck. all i did was cash my checks , no forms no id no nothin. then again quickbuck is obviously alot larger and more experienced than the billions of $ google moves around right

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SmokeyTheBear

8 great reasons why you should NEVER let your id leave your side or reside on someone else's computer you have no control over.

Now ill list some thing you DONT need to show your id for.

You dont need your id to get paid with google

You dont need your id to get paid from yahoo

You dont need your id to get paid from adsense

and the list goes on to include every sponsor i have ever heard of..

Any sponsor can make any rule they want your right and nobody has to use them , but i see no reason to ostricise your affiliates by instituting plans that havent been thought out.

It does take some guts to admit when your wrong, maybe in your mind your not, thats cool too. but i think by some of the responses show many do not think its a wise idea.

Why not just start a new thread "QUICKBUCK OFFICIAL STATEMENT"
Due to recent worries about our "ID or else" policy we have decided to hold up on enforcing this policy until we can better ascertain its usefullness. We at quickbuck listen to our affiliates and we of course do not want to make it harder for you to get paid. We feel by preventing fraud we can INCREASE payouts to honest webmasters. We apologize for any confusion and look forward to a rewarding relationship with our affil's in 2007

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u-Bob

if($newaffiliate = some-one-u-dont-know)
{
send a letter with a code to the $newaffiliate.
require $newaffiliate to fill in the code in some webbased form before you issue the first payment.
}

Splum

Maybe Wiseman should change his sig to "fuck the affiliates. we do!"

Quick Buck

And if you were running quickbuck it would be your prerogative to do so, but I'm running it and I have years of experience running it. I know the one thing that all affiliate fraud has in common, it comes from people we don't know.

You think it's wrong. I don't. You say it hasn't worked, I say that it is and has worked. You say it is costing me business, I say I don't want your business if you wont abide by our policy and that it in fact has improved profitability and our ability to do high priced promos.

The good thing about it is that this is a free country and you are welcome to believe what you like and make up theories about anything you choose. If you think I'm wrong then you should start your own program and come up with all sorts of wiz bang neato ways to keep fraud in check.

You say *many* think it's wrong, perhaps you underestimate how many affiliates we have. GFY posters are not reflective of most of the industry imho.

Yahoo does not require an id to advertise with them, because you are the one sending *them* money. If you want to get a yahoo xml feed, you do indeed have to sign a contract, send articles of incorporation and often provide references because you want to use their service and you want them to send you money. Google also requires you to sign a contract and send articles of incorporation if you want an XML feed.

Adsense? Come on man, they control the content, they control the path to the advertiser, and they control where their ads appear or don't appear. If you want to give me the ability to control your quickbuck ads then by all means I'm happy to make an exception to the "we require an id" rule.

And please... Send me money, I promise I won't ask for any information about who you are when I'm cashing the check.

CCbill requires contracts and proof of id, Paycom requires contracts and proof of id... For every example of somebody who doesn't require proof of id (for the company or the individual if you're not a company) I will show you a company that does.

Why do you think CCBill doesn't just open up their procesisng up to everybody who can submit a form? Because if they made the process automated they would have every scammer in the world signing up and submitting card data, an affiliate program running on their own merchants really only differs from a biller in that we don't give you the ability to control the pricing.

Ask ANY processor and ANY bank what the NUMBER ONE way to prevent fraud is in affiliate marketing? The #1 answer is to KNOW YOUR AFFILIATES. KNOW how they are promoting you, KNOW what they are promoting and KNOW who they are.

Is this a fool proof method? No. It's the best we've come up with so far. Give me a better idea and i'll happily consider it. Constructive criticism doesn't mean saying "your idea is stupid", it means saying "your idea is stupid, here is a better way of doing it". I welcome constructive criticism but this armchair quarterbacking is really pointless unless you just enjoy posting.

Bottom line is that if you want me to write you a check for 1k, 5k, 10k or 100k, you need to show me an id so that if you decide you want to play games with stolen cards, promote us from kp sites or violate can spam that I can come after you.

Any affiliate who has an issue with our policy is welcome to contact us and we can arrange a suitable method of verifying your identity or corporate identity if you're uncomfortable with our current process.

The day I take a GFY thread as a blueprint of how to run my business is the day that I will shut our doors.

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the alchemist

That's crazy but this isn't a first... ARS wanted all that crap and then some to pay me via epass instead of checks. Needless to say they are still waiting.

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Quick Buck

*late edit*

And do you want to know what 95% of all of our sales do have in common?

They come from people we *know personally*. We know their wives, we know where they live and work, we send eachother kwanza cards and vacation together.

Most mid to large sized programs could close their programs entirely to people they don't know personally and see only a small decline in sales.

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u-Bob

verifying a persons address ( http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...&postcount=117 ) wouldn't that provide more security than asking for IDs?

Quick Buck

yes u-Bob, that is a good idea and one I had not considered. I'll look into doing that although I would think that from an administrative standpoint that could be difficult, only because of things like "I didn't get my mail with the code printed on it!"... but that is a very creative solution.

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u-Bob

That's a common myth. A W8 form is not required by law. You can use a substitute form (This can even be a simple webbased "I confirm that I am not a US citizen and that... etc"-button (like Google does)).

LiveDose

Haha, that's funny.

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LadyMischief

I had my identity stolen years ago and it's still messing with me. It's easy enough to happen but the damage takes years to recover from.

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LadyMischief

An even better idea would be to simply incorporate a privacy statement/agreement in their terms of service so that if anything comes up that they need id confirmation on, they have let people know up front, and there's accountability for what they do with the person's id, so people would be more comfortable sending it. That would also square them up on many laws in many countries with regards to identification.

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vvq

It's a deterrent, not a end all fraud solution. It's one extra step a fraudster has to go through.

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Splum

Blah its not worth commenting on this stupid thread anymore. Quickbucks runs business like the Bush administration. Please dont reply to my rant.

Peaches

Welcome to 2004.

Personally I think you're going to more and more of this from the older established programs. In addition, you can also plan on them "firing" the bottom feeders. It's just not cost efficient to hire people to take care of webmasters making you a total of $10K a year.

SmokeyTheBear

and you have yet to explain how seeing an id would change that in any way.
I never said it didnt work .

umm ok, you have your way i have mine i can live with that..

yet you havent shown 1 single way this has worked..

Just because someone doesnt have a passport or drivers license doesnt mean you "stopped fraud" it just means someone hasnt sent in their id yet, guilty until proven innocent ?

"make up theories " ? like that the top 10 sponsor on the net dont require this ? its not a theory its called a fact if you have trouble with facts .
So if you think the war is wrong you should start your own war ? that makes no sense.. yes you have made it quite clear that you can do what you want its your own program , we all realise this, we also realise that anyone can give their opinion. When i have wiz bang fraud detection in my affiliate program your welcome to tell me if its useless and cumbersome.

nope i just counted the responses for and against.

wrong they send me money

but no passport or id, reason being it means they have to protect these id's under the law
huh ? they are an affiliate proram that pays without passport or id..
first send me your passport and id please

wrong , been paid by both no i.d.
ok every sponsor on gfy but you. ( and perhaps ars )

so now name me 30 who do require i.d.

you are not a processor.. we are talking about sponsors.

Looking at an i.d. then tossing it doesnt help you know your affiliates.
A) i never said that

B) i gave plenty of constructive critique maybe you missed it , read up..

You said you toss the id after looking at it , so how are you going to do that ?



i never heard one person give you a blueprint.. i heard some affilites voice concern over a measure i have shown to be both dangerous and useless, you choose to ignore your affiliates and anyone who tries to help.

I dont know why you feel offended or the need to call your affiliates and others "attackers" because they are concerned with your measures.

I have only read one deragotory remark in this thread towards quickbuck, everyone else is just concerned .. ( and they should be )

But what this boils down to is its your program you can do what you want , this is gfy we can comment on what we want.. i hold no negativity towards your decision. There isn't a sponsor around that does everything perfect. I just wish you would lighten up and try to appease your affiliates and potentials instead of calling them "attackers" and avoiding any diologue on the topic.. the foremost being . "you cant verify i.d. therefore what good does it do "

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BlackCrayon

better tell them to stop buying advertising on gfy then.

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SmokeyTheBear

lets be realistic here. do you really think a fraudster cant photochop an id ?

Do you think there are more fraudsters that dont know how to photochop an id than legit webmasters that just dont have a passport drivers license ? so who would lose out.. ?

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tony286

Amen, I think also if all programs wanted this stuff. A there would be less bullshit and b a more serious affiliate. If you want to do commission sales for a bricks and mortar company they would have all that info.Also this their going to steal my id bullshit, considering most have credit score around 500, its not worth much. lol Also for age verification dont want 16 yr olds promoting porn.

TheDoc

Do they require this on every webmaster? Not everyone has a DL or Passport, you don't need either to own a company and have a tax id. I really don't understand how a DL or Passport can stop fraud.

I live in Arizona, my address is to the other address in AZ, my company and payment details would be out of Las Vegas, and my phone numbers don't match either. The only way to know I am legit is my Tax ID and/or SSN. Both of which can be ran through the SS Offices to make sure they are valid and match the the name on record. Or maybe I should give you my Canadian DL?

1) I don't cash checks - I'm not 16 or broke.
2) While they use my ID to make sure it's me, bars, stores, ect do not copy and keep the ID, they look
at the picture and the birth date and hand it back. With buying beer, I don't hand them ID, I show it to them.
3) You do not have to have an ID to rent an apartment.
4) You do not have to show your ID to rent a video, only to get the card, or go online and no ID is needed.
5) You do not have to have a ID to get a job, you only need a SSN.
6) My sons do not have ID's and get on planes......
7) You ask for ID's on cock suckers to make sure she is 18 or over and because of laws, you don't do any fraud checks to make sure this bitch wont kill you though.

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BradShaw

I see zero problem with it. I like to know who I am doing biz with, especially if they are "new" webmasters overseas.

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SmokeyTheBear

i guess google has it all wrong having the largest amount of "bottom feeders"

Personally i think there will be even more diversity in the affiliate game , less whales , more smaller affiliates. Personally i would rather have 1 million "bottom feeders" making $200 a month than 2 whales making a million a year

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Peaches

Interesting. Now, I admit I haven't worked for anyone since the early 90's, but IIRC, back in the 80's there was a law passed where you had to show at least one form of ID to an employer and they had to fill out a form saying you showed it.

And I've had to show my ID get on a plane. From what I know, only if you're under 16 do you not have to do that, and we aren't talking about under 16 year olds here.

I also had to show ID for my son when he was under 16 and we were going out of the country.

SmokeyTheBear

i have zero problem with it also.. other than it wont help in any way..

You cant legaly verify the id is correct therefore what use does it serve other than a false sense of security and none of your legit webmaster who made you money that dont have a dl or passport dont get paid..

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SmokeyTheBear

google doesnt..

they actually just changed the laws on that a bit , but your correct

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/...-borders_x.htm

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pornguy

call quickbuck about it.

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Peaches

I know several people who own non-adult businesses who "fire" the bottom 20% of their customers each and every year. It's not uncommon. Google is like Dell - they have enough cheap labor to be able to use them to deal with the bottom feeders.

Not for nuthin' but Hooper seems to have done pretty well running an adult affiliate program. And as I stated previously, they're one of the handful of people I'd trust with my info. My dog sitter has more access to my person info and in reference to low paid employees, has more reason to steal my identity

jayeff

Oh dear. Repeating something which is plain wrong, only makes it right in online adult. Here is the reality.

When I started in this business there was a crop of well-known names. The vast majority of those names are now just distant memories. In a few more years, most of today's names will similarly have faded away. That's business, any business.

A sponsor need not depend on affiliates at all. And if he does, so long as his program is the envy of the industry and people are queuing to join, he can leave it to others to work with newcomers. But most sponsors are at best ordinary, so if they want whales tomorrow they have to work with the minnows today.

The single most common mistake sponsors make is in making so little effort to actually develop affiliates. They hire reps who know little or nothing about the business and who can thus only answer standard questions with standard answers. The theory is that by signing up enough affiliates, among that number will be some decent traffic generators. But how terrible would it be to make sure of that and at the same time improve the odds that when some of these small-fry do find their feet, they are still supporting your program?

Of course there is no way to get an immediate return on all levels of affiliate development. But it would make a lot more sense, instead of paying someone to be a speaking FAQ's page, to hire people to work in a way which would generate earlier and more certain returns.

SmokeyTheBear

I totally agree with you here.. Of all the programs i would trust quickbuck near the top , merely from word of mouth. BUT this particular method seems cumbersome and useless and nobody has yet to explain how it would prevent fraud in ANY way..

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Gnus

Well in the US if you fill out a W9 for an employer that 1099s you, the W9 requires the company to obtain a copy of two forms id for that person and to have it on file with the W9. So basically legally if a sponsor or company makes you file out a W9 you must provide them two forms of id. I see more and more sponsors doing this especially if they are US based.

Gary

tony286

You are correct also you have to show id to get a blockbuster card.To me if you have nothing to hide presenting id shouldnt be a problem.

SmokeyTheBear

and if they dont file a 1099 .. then.. wouldnt it make sense they dont ask for id, as they arent required nor would it be of any use ?

Like the largest affiliate program around google ?

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Splum

So I suppose you are not opposed to a national ID card etc. That kind of thinking is quite "republican" isnt it tony?

SmokeyTheBear

google must be the largest illegal sponsor on the net then

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TheDoc

I don't think w9's need copies of ID's.. You could be paying an LLC.
I think thats w2 employee wage forms which needs some form of ID, like a SSN and a local bill that as your name and address on it.

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