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Old 03-09-2007, 06:56 AM   #51
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I suggested Luxeon LEDs when he did his first on-camera lamp using LED "torch globe" assemblies, but he didn't wanna know about it
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Old 03-09-2007, 08:44 AM   #52
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lol .. he already have messed up his existing knowledge.

hey rowan, any comments about my config? see fig. on first page.
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Old 03-09-2007, 08:48 AM   #53
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intresting...
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Old 03-09-2007, 09:13 AM   #54
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RedShow, where did you get that black round frame? I'd be very interrested by one!!
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Old 03-09-2007, 09:38 AM   #55
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The point that a bunch of you seem to miss is that white leds need to be CURRENT limited, not voltage limited.
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Old 03-09-2007, 10:15 AM   #56
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Ohm looks like one cranky motherfucker. I guess he spent too much time dealing with gfy variety morons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHP-CODER-FOR-HIRE View Post
Dude... stop fucking around with the resistance of the circuit, and use incandescent bulbs instead of LEDs. Sure, LEDs use a lot less power, and sure they the latest thing, but normal bulbs are fine for most purposes, and are easier to use... Plus you get sockets for bulbs that make it real easy to replace them... Go the your local radioshack and get a 1.5/3/6/9/12v 1A wall adapter and wire it into your circuit.. Then do the same with cigarette adaptor.

Radioscrap also sells external battery enclosures and project casings.

Either no more batteries, or easy to use enclosure.
Dude..



That's right.. you don't have a clue. Stick to PHP-CODER-FOR-HIRE-ing or whatever it is you waste your life on.

Rowan seems to be the only one talking sense... and no, quoting him with thumbs up doesn't make you smart as well. I guess sheep follow the shepherd.

Hope you payed attention to this one RedShoe

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Old 03-09-2007, 11:42 AM   #57
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RedShow, where did you get that black round frame? I'd be very interrested by one!!
pay attention son, it's a drainage ditch overflow pipe. I just got it at the hardware store. It's just a basic run of the mill, 4" abs pipe drain hole cover. Nothing more. I just cut it with a saw and sanded it to fit.

I'll reply to the other posts (Vick and Rowan) when I get back.
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:24 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Vick! View Post
RedShoe, Its hard to track the thread back and read lot of different opinions and so.

Why are you using 80 resisters? you know each resister would dissipate some power in form of heat and in turn will consume more battery?

80 resistors? No. I mean I drilled 80 holes, put in 40 LEDs, and used 20 resistors.1 resistor per 2 LEDs




Quote:
Originally Posted by Vick! View Post
Electronics is really very simple, you only need to learn 2-3 simple things.

* Ohm's Law
* Effect of series connected resisters and/or bulbs (LEDs whatever)
* Effect of parallel connected resisters and/or bulbs (LEDs whatever)

And the hobby you own is simply loveable. Why you are not into Engineering?
Engineering? ME!?!?! LOL. I'm a Super Genius, I'm not smart.
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:33 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by rowan View Post
I suggested Luxeon LEDs when he did his first on-camera lamp using LED "torch globe" assemblies, but he didn't wanna know about it
You're wrong bro. I looked this shit up right after you posted it and my next one for Tony404, even though he REFUSES to just simply ask for it... It's like that scene in fight club when Ed Norton is hinting that he needs a place to stay and Brad Pitt says "all you gotta do is ask man." and Ed says, "really? would that be a problem? and Brad Pitt says, "Would it be a problem for you to ask?"

I've told Tony we could "work something out" so we'll see. But yeah I really wann use those 5W Luxeons on the next one, but I MUST have a way to tone it down. They would wash out and blow thru anything indoors. I want to light up a pussy, not make it so bright that it blinds you.

The next one will be more universal. I'm going to make fit almost any DVX. The first one only fit my specific wide angle and this one only fits a specific wide angle as well.

The problem with the Luxeons is their footprint. They are like the size of a quarter. That sort of defeats the purpose of using LEDs. I use LEDs because they are so small.
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Old 03-09-2007, 01:39 PM   #60
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Hey RedShoe, been watching your project with some interest. Nice one!

I know you're pretty much already done with your project, but if I may make a recommendation?

You might find that a few Luxor LEDs are what you're chasing. They go up to 5W [yes, 5W LEDs] - and their 3Ws are very bright, with a very reasonable power consumption [3AAAs will power them for 25+ hours on full bright]

Everyone is telling you different stories because there are definitely multiple ways to do these things.

Generally speaking though, hooking each LED [esp high consuptions ones such as the whites] to a battery is NOT the optimal solution - most SHOULD have a driver circuit to ensure steady current is delivered. If you can't control the current, you'll burn the LEDs out.

These will not only
a] prolong battery and LED life, but
b] provide maximum brightness off much smaller power supply

Links:
http://www.satcure-focus.com/tutor/page10.htm
http://www.luxeonstar.com/faq.php

Google for luxeon drivers or LED drivers, and you'll find plenty of people have gone where you have before.

I figure if you went to so much effort to make a great device, go the whole way! With a decet driver, you'll have dimming control, and a much cheaper and cleaner system.


Thanks Quantum-X. Thanks for the links. And yeah I definitly want to do it right. Once I get a decent prototype, I'm going to send to my friend that has a CnC machine and have him cut one out of Delrin and really do it up right. I'm going to have him cut in the battery ports as well. I've been toying with the idea of putting a battery pack inside and then just making it chargeable.

The Drivers are definitly the next step in my evolution to becoming the next on camera lighting designer catering to the adult industry... person.

What kind of camera do you shoot with?
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Old 03-09-2007, 02:09 PM   #61
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Thanks Quantum-X. Thanks for the links. And yeah I definitly want to do it right. Once I get a decent prototype, I'm going to send to my friend that has a CnC machine and have him cut one out of Delrin and really do it up right. I'm going to have him cut in the battery ports as well. I've been toying with the idea of putting a battery pack inside and then just making it chargeable.

The Drivers are definitly the next step in my evolution to becoming the next on camera lighting designer catering to the adult industry... person.

What kind of camera do you shoot with?
5Ws are probably overkill. I explore w/ a 3W on my headtorch, and it is very, very bright, and very, very decent. You could probably get away with a couple of 1Ws. If you're down for a challenge, use the 1Ws w/ drivers operating on alternate cycles, that is, when you dim them visa pulsing, when one batch of LEDs is offer, the other is on, to ensure you've got a steady fill..

I shoot w/ a 1Ds.
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Old 03-09-2007, 03:01 PM   #62
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Stop telling me what to do all the time!
Oh so check this out, I go to the Electronis store. AndI've eben talked to a few guys here on GFY about this light thing as a direct result of this thread. They all agree that LEDs can NOT be dimmed.

"It's digital, it's either on or off, there is no dim"

I went to EVS today t pick up soame tapes and I saw one of their super-expensive panel lights which made up of about 200 LEDs. And, IT DIMS!

It's not a smooth dim, but it steps down in stages. Like maybe 10 steps from 100% down to 0%.

HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE???
And you are going to listen to those guys? What do they know about BUILDING ring lights? Come on!

Or...

Suck it up and by the Kinoflo ring light like the big boys have. The down side to that is that it's kind of big and the models kick it when you come in too close for a shot. And IT can be dimmed... oh yes, it can be dimmed. Just make sure to get the right color temp to match your other lights.

Next time you are in Evs, kick one of those queens in the nuts for me. They were supposed to send me a bulb for a Rifa light and didn't.
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Old 03-09-2007, 03:18 PM   #63
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And you are going to listen to those guys? What do they know about BUILDING ring lights? Come on!

Or...

Suck it up and by the Kinoflo ring light like the big boys have. The down side to that is that it's kind of big and the models kick it when you come in too close for a shot. And IT can be dimmed... oh yes, it can be dimmed. Just make sure to get the right color temp to match your other lights.

Next time you are in Evs, kick one of those queens in the nuts for me. They were supposed to send me a bulb for a Rifa light and didn't.
Call EVS, what am I an EVS rep? I was just in there yesterday actually.

I know there is a Kino light. But how am I going to start a small side business where I can compete with them if all I do just buy it?

You don't go to Ford and say, "Just go buy a Honda." Do you?

I know they make computer cases as well, but I'll never buy one. I'm a builder. I build things. It's a gift... and a curse.
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Old 03-09-2007, 10:49 PM   #64
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80 resistors? No. I mean I drilled 80 holes, put in 40 LEDs, and used 20 resistors.1 resistor per 2 LEDs

Right, 1 resister per 2 LEDs, and those LEDs are in series? If yes, why don't you put another LED in series with 2 and eliminate the resister?

Or those LEDs were in parallel?



Engineering? ME!?!?! LOL. I'm a Super Genius, I'm not smart.
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Old 03-09-2007, 10:54 PM   #65
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The point that a bunch of you seem to miss is that white leds need to be CURRENT limited, not voltage limited.
you are so damn idiot


Do you really think what u just said? We don't need to limit voltage across a damn white LED?

I mean, Is it OK to apply 220 volts across it? ROLF

And for the second part of your statement, we do not normally limit the current in a circuit (LED) in this case. We just apply appropriate voltage and the circuit (LED) draws current according to its internal resistance.

We ONLY limit the current where we think a short circuit can happen and cause fire, like in houses and offices and we use circuit breaker for that. Its like a fuse, which limit the current up to a certain level.
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Old 03-09-2007, 11:09 PM   #66
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80 resistors? No. I mean I drilled 80 holes, put in 40 LEDs, and used 20 resistors.1 resistor per 2 LEDs

Right, 1 resister per 2 LEDs, and those LEDs are in series? If yes, why don't you put another LED in series with 2 and eliminate the resister?

Or those LEDs were in parallel?
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Old 03-09-2007, 11:14 PM   #67
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you are so damn idiot


Do you really think what u just said? We don't need to limit voltage across a damn white LED?

I mean, Is it OK to apply 220 volts across it? ROLF

And for the second part of your statement, we do not normally limit the current in a circuit (LED) in this case. We just apply appropriate voltage and the circuit (LED) draws current according to its internal resistance.

We ONLY limit the current where we think a short circuit can happen and cause fire, like in houses and offices and we use circuit breaker for that. Its like a fuse, which limit the current up to a certain level.
220 volts?
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Old 03-09-2007, 11:31 PM   #68
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220 volts?
lolz, yes according to quantum-x -- He said we don't need to voltage limit the white LEDs.
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Old 03-09-2007, 11:34 PM   #69
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lolz, yes according to quantum-x -- He said we don't need to voltage limit the white LEDs.
Well pretty sure you wont get 220 volts dc from any battery pack. You only need to limit voltage if there is voltage there to limit.
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Old 03-10-2007, 12:20 AM   #70
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Well pretty sure you wont get 220 volts dc from any battery pack. You only need to limit voltage if there is voltage there to limit.
of course.

And in this case, battery is 9v and we need to limit the voltage to ~3v so that LED don't get fucked.
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Old 03-10-2007, 01:00 AM   #71
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just so you guys know. Hooking up a 9v to a bright white LED will fry it in less than 2 seconds. It makes a pretty little "POP" sound when it dies.
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Old 03-10-2007, 01:54 AM   #72
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just so you guys know. Hooking up a 9v to a bright white LED will fry it in less than 2 seconds. It makes a pretty little "POP" sound when it dies.
Exactly. It does mean that voltage need to be limited for white (and all) LEDs.
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Old 03-10-2007, 06:05 AM   #73
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Exactly. It does mean that voltage need to be limited for white (and all) LEDs.
Not the voltage, the current! Limit the CURRENT!
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Old 03-10-2007, 08:55 AM   #74
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Not the voltage, the current! Limit the CURRENT!
No, we put resistor in series with LED to drop some voltage across resister, this way we limit voltage across LED.
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Old 03-10-2007, 07:55 PM   #75
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No, we put resistor in series with LED to drop some voltage across resister, this way we limit voltage across LED.
Well, my point was : You need the right voltage on each LED, and limit the current going trough them
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Old 03-10-2007, 10:28 PM   #76
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Well, my point was : You need the right voltage on each LED, and limit the current going trough them
I understand what you mean. But mate, when we say 'right' voltage -- Its mean we are limiting the voltage to a certain level which do not harm the circuit (LED). As long as concern to limit the current, we do not limit. It get limited on its own depending on the internal resistance of the circuit (LED).


For example, attach two batteries of 1.5 volts each to make 3 volts, right? Then attach an LED to it, LED will be ON.

Did we limit the current? No, current is automatically remain within limit of approx 15-20mA due to the internal resistance.


Ohm's Law comes here, at constant resistance current and voltage are directly proportional. So, limiting voltage is actually limiting current as well.
You are also right in one way. But again, to limit the current we actually limit voltage, assuming resistance is constant.
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Old 03-10-2007, 10:30 PM   #77
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boys, boys, boys... can't we just put our differences aside and do some good for the greater common of the industry?



LOL
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Old 03-10-2007, 10:42 PM   #78
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Vick, I'm not quite getting the "no resistor" thing. Internal resistance of what - the battery?
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Old 03-11-2007, 01:18 AM   #79
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Vick, I'm not quite getting the "no resistor" thing. Internal resistance of what - the battery?
Well, If we connect 3 LEDs of 3v each in series with a 9v battery. Do we need resistor?
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Old 03-11-2007, 02:35 AM   #80
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Well, If we connect 3 LEDs of 3v each in series with a 9v battery. Do we need resistor?
I understand what you're saying, I just don't understand how it works. With every fraction of a volt above the combined forward voltage of the LED string, surely the dissipation will increase remarkably?

I know that those keychain torch LEDs don't usually have a resistor, but that's because the button cell batteries cannot supply more current than the LEDs can tolerate. A short circuited 9V battery would probably be able to push out more than 30mA...

If the forward voltage of each LED was (say) 2.8V and the battery puts out exactly 9V then the difference is 0.6V, and to stay at 30mA you'd need 22 ohms of series resistance. Surely a battery does not have such a high internal resistance?
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Old 03-11-2007, 02:39 AM   #81
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AC/DC. Got it.
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Old 03-11-2007, 05:59 AM   #82
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I understand what you're saying, I just don't understand how it works. With every fraction of a volt above the combined forward voltage of the LED string, surely the dissipation will increase remarkably?

I know that those keychain torch LEDs don't usually have a resistor, but that's because the button cell batteries cannot supply more current than the LEDs can tolerate. A short circuited 9V battery would probably be able to push out more than 30mA...

If the forward voltage of each LED was (say) 2.8V and the battery puts out exactly 9V then the difference is 0.6V, and to stay at 30mA you'd need 22 ohms of series resistance. Surely a battery does not have such a high internal resistance?


your calculation is somewhat right, but 22 ohms of resistance is so small that it can be ignored and we assume LEDs are working on 3v each.

No doubt these values vary depending on the type of LED and strength of 9v battery. A fully charged 9v battery have potential difference of up to 9.4 volts whereas a less charged can have 8.4 to 8.8

And to answer how it works, in the chain of 3 LEDs .. other two acts as simple resistor to the third. So, actually each LED get ~3v potential difference across its terminals.

I don't know if I got what you were really asking .. may be lol ..


Hey, have a look at this .. it might help http://www.theledlight.com/ledcircuits.html
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Old 03-11-2007, 06:00 AM   #83
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And no, I was not talking about internal resistance of the battery, but internal resistance of LED itself.
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Old 03-11-2007, 06:57 AM   #84
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I understand what you mean. But mate, when we say 'right' voltage -- Its mean we are limiting the voltage to a certain level which do not harm the circuit (LED). As long as concern to limit the current, we do not limit. It get limited on its own depending on the internal resistance of the circuit (LED).


For example, attach two batteries of 1.5 volts each to make 3 volts, right? Then attach an LED to it, LED will be ON.

Did we limit the current? No, current is automatically remain within limit of approx 15-20mA due to the internal resistance.


Ohm's Law comes here, at constant resistance current and voltage are directly proportional. So, limiting voltage is actually limiting current as well.
You are also right in one way. But again, to limit the current we actually limit voltage, assuming resistance is constant.
If you put the LED right on a power source, the LED will fry. Why? The internal LED resistance is LOWWWWWW, so the current will be BIGGGGGG.

So what you have to do, is put a resistor in serie to limit the currrent.
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Old 03-11-2007, 09:15 AM   #85
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If you put the LED right on a power source, the LED will fry. Why? The internal LED resistance is LOWWWWWW, so the current will be BIGGGGGG.

So what you have to do, is put a resistor in serie to limit the currrent.
Why LED don't fry at (limited) potential difference of ~3v? We don't limit the current but still LED is fine.

As I previously said you are also right one way. When two parameters are directly proportional to each other at some constant 'K' .. limiting any one will automatically limit the other.

Its same as the half filled glass of water; one person says that its half filled while the other person says it half empty. Both are right.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:48 AM   #86
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Well, If we connect 3 LEDs of 3v each in series with a 9v battery. Do we need resistor?
We?? We?? Shit, sorry man, I already stamped all these things as "RedShoe's light ring" I'll put "RedShoe and Vick" on the next ones.

Maybe we could do like a RedVick or VickShoe type of name.
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Old 03-11-2007, 01:16 PM   #87
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Vick, you're a fucktard.

A couple of things. Yes, I made an assumption. I assumed that people would be smart enough to relalise that the voltage would have to be within the correct LED tolerance. Most people got it, except you.

When someone tells you to get something for dinner, do you go and buy 2 KG of Cyanide, and then in your dying moments say "well you didn't SAY you wanted something not poisonous".

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These simple circuits are suitable for testing and experimenting with Luxeon LEDs, however to maintain maximum LED brightness and long life, we recommend that you use some form of current regulator such as the Advance Transformer's Xitanium? LED driver or other type of current regulation circuit.


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Old 03-11-2007, 05:54 PM   #88
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Old 03-12-2007, 04:51 AM   #89
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your calculation is somewhat right, but 22 ohms of resistance is so small that it can be ignored and we assume LEDs are working on 3v each.

No doubt these values vary depending on the type of LED and strength of 9v battery. A fully charged 9v battery have potential difference of up to 9.4 volts whereas a less charged can have 8.4 to 8.8

And to answer how it works, in the chain of 3 LEDs .. other two acts as simple resistor to the third. So, actually each LED get ~3v potential difference across its terminals.

I don't know if I got what you were really asking .. may be lol ..


Hey, have a look at this .. it might help http://www.theledlight.com/ledcircuits.html
Still doesn't explain it - the 3 examples all use a dropping resistor...
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Old 03-12-2007, 04:56 AM   #90
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Old 03-12-2007, 05:10 AM   #91
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Everyone needs to lay off of the radioshack suggestiosn. They stopped being an electronics store some time ago, you'll only find batteries and sprint cell phones there now
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