RawAlex

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=717895

The company is videoscash.com - epass payouts.

They install Zlob - and contrary to the information on their website, they install much of it BEFORE asking permission, and if you say no, there is a still a ton of stuff on your system including a very effective rootkit.

So, Epass people, why are you helping them and keeping them as a client?

tony286

you havent realized we are in the whore industry lol

RawAlex

whore yes... but in the end, these people are stealing my sales, your sales, and everyone elses sales, traffic, etc.

In the end, this is the sort of thing that ruins the adult affiliate business model.

Ray@TastyDollars

what we spoke about yesturday are all Videoscash installs?

__________________

RawAlex

Yup... it all tracks back to them.

Ray@TastyDollars

I guess it time to make a video huh? Hit me up on Monday

__________________

DamageX

Do you HONESTLY think Epassporte cares about who steals what in this industry, as long as everyone uses their service?

__________________

vvq

see that guy that ranks higher than you in google? he's stealing your sales. see those people advertising on search engines with adwords? they're stealing your sales. see that gallery listed higher than you on the hun? he's stealing your sales.

business isn't always fair. adapt.

__________________

DamageX

This is more like we delivering the goods and someone else getting to charge the customer though.

__________________

RawAlex

i will compete with anyone on a reasonable playing field. I am not the strongest, I don't have the most traffic, and I don't have mad skillz... but when someone is "winning" by tricking people into installed malware and then profiting from it, not only did they beat me once, but they will beat me again every day EVEN IF I DO BETTER THAN THEY DO.

They killed the ref, took the fans hostage, and are expecting me to haul the mail for them.

Damagex: I expect Epassporte to be like any other company - not wanting to be involved with companies that distribute malware.

Klen

A lot of spyware companies use epassporte for payment.

DamageX

You mean like AFF and SexSearch?

__________________

TampaToker

Good i like that attitude you can now be my test rat

__________________
Icq 247-742-205

crockett

Another Question.. Why is Epassporte allowing it's use on ESTDomains.com probably the most used host for cheaters. In fact I think a few people have linked estdomain directly to many of the cheats and scammers in this industry.. Yet they have use of epassporte for payment for their services.

__________________
In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

V_RocKs

ESTDomains.com should have their shit canned.

vvq

i don't support spyware, but you're living in a dream world if you think business is all about being fair. all spyware does is up the tehnical prowess needed to compete. from an ethical standpoint, no i don't like it, but whining solves nothing. contrary to what most people think around here business doesn't revolve around board drama. it revolves around $$$.

if these guys are breaking the law, take them to court. posting on GFY really isn't going to stop anything. it's great that you want your voice to be heard on the subject, but if you really care about your traffic you'd take legal action. and if you can't take legal action, tough. that's how the world operates.

again, i don't personally support spyware or have anything to do with it. i'm just voicing my opinion on why bitching on the forums is the wrong way to go about stopping it.

in the end everyone involved is just trying to make a buck. do you think the customer cares who his money goes to when he joins Adult Friend Finder?

__________________

RawAlex

vvg, I am not asking for "fair". Nothing in life is fair, certainly not this business.

Legality? Well, unless I am going to try to find some international tribunal to handle it, I really doubt that I can do much to take legal action against scammers in Russia and the Czech Republic. Obviously, the "legal channels" angle is totally not going to work out any time soon. These guys have shown to be rather less than interested in the law, anyway.

My point is that the legit side of the adult industry, the part that doesn't support toolbars, hacks, viruses, and malware shouldn't have anything to do with those that do. Don't buy the traffic, don't provide services, and don't knowingly link to the shit. Why the fuck should scammers have the same tools that I do. In your own words, business ain't fair. Fuck them, let's make it less fair FOR THEM.

This is where your argument falls down. This is like saying the crack dealer on your street corner is okay, because, well, he is just trying to make a buck.

The customer surely cares when his computer is so fucked over he can't use it for anything. That very likely means one more person that will never surf for porn again... one less customer for us.

I am totally stunned that you can't see cause and effect here.

vvq

Exactly. So learn to protect your assets. It's no different than the TGP guys running scripts to make sure people aren't redirecting or putting hsit on galleries after they're listed. You have to take action to protect your traffic. I don't consider posting on the boards taking action. That's just me though I guess.

While it might be considered scamming to you, toolbar/install traffic is considered perfectly legit by other people. I'm pretty sure Zango operates from the United States don't they? We don't like it when banks make ethical decisions to close personal bank accounts because we work in porn, why should Epassporte have to make an ethical decision? They're a service provider. You don't sue gun makers when someone shoots someone.

No, I'm saying your opinion is biased because you're losing money. You believe Zango and all these other companies are bad because you're losing money to them. That's a fact. You're not on some noble quest to make the Internet a better place. Money is your motivation, same thing as Zango, same thing as anyone in this business.

The customer cares so much that rather than cleaning up all the nasty evil spyware on his computer, he's pulling out his credit card and joining adult friend finder? Clearly Zango is of more concern to affiliates than customers.

I see the damage caused by all the illegal shit turning computers into zombies for spam botnets and all the randsomware bullshit. Overwriting affiliate codes isn't a threat to consumers.

Are you boycotting WalMart? Are you out there picketing for the cause? Aren't they one of Zangos biggest clients?

anyway, fuck spyware. i don't support it. i do NOT want to be seen as supporter of this shit. i'm just not fighting trends. i'd rather protect my traffic and let everyone else waste time crying. seems like the smart thing to do. spyware or not, the strong will survive. every now and then you need stuff like this to happen to thin out the herd.

__________________

RawAlex

vvg, actually, Zango paid a 3 million dollar settlement to the FTC for using misleading methods for installing their product...

That is what this is all about. These guys aren't bothering to overwrite cookies, that is kids games. They are fucking off with the traffic and reselling it as PPC, running botnets on the computers, and generally fucking people over solid. This isn't just a naughty toolbar - they are fucking people's computers over solid.

If it was only a toolbar, it wouldn't be very serious. Rootkits are fucking serious business.

I suggest you investigate further before you lump it all in one pile. Look around for "Zlob" or "Zlob8".

baddog

did you start this thread with the idea that they would actually respond?

themonk

srry i dont really care

__________________
175$ Per Sale - The Best Sponsor

RawAlex

Well, I figure that Michael might come wandering through... plus I am sure some of their friends will mention such a thread.

DamageX

Michael will not address this, this is a management issue and he's not management. The management is probably on holiday in Europe and would probably not address it regardless, since he has publically stated that he's decided to make it a policy that epassporte will not comment on board threads.

__________________

RawAlex

Okay then, fuck it. let the thieves win.

DamageX

Actually, that wasn't my point. Just because epass won't address this doesn't mean that we should let the thieves win. There's more than one way to skin a thief.

__________________

swampthing

in my opinion, they dont care about ruining adult business model. They also take money from gambling sites. They also like to cancel accounts on people and see how far they will go to get there money back.

keep supporting epass you sheep.

stickyfingerz

Im sorry but I dont really want a company like epassporte (not there is anything wrong with them I like epass Im just saying) deciding on what is ethical and banning someone due to it.

RawAlex

The only question of ethics is "do we support people infecting computers with rootkits and breaching their security, or don't we?"

That isn't a huge ethical deal.

Epass has the right to refuse business to anyone. Why should they be the payment system of choice of a bunch of malware installing assholes? (assholes enough to actually threaten me).

It's not important anyway. None of this matters.

baddog

Why would he address this? Not his job.

DamageX

Because it makes epass money and they don't give a flying fuck about us webmasters.

__________________

BlackCrayon

what a terrible comparison. the guy who is higher than me on google isn't using my website to pop ads. by your logic i guess gallery cheaters have a place in our business just like virus installers and others. they are just further ahead of the game than the rest of us? give me a break.

__________________
you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

BlackCrayon

more stupidty! the law is useless when it comes to technology. they are so far behind and usually don't even understand the things they pass laws against. if spyware didn't rely on my traffic, my websites and my keywords to make their money, i wouldn't have anything to complain about.

__________________
you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

fris

oh the horrors of videoscash, wont trade with anyone who promotes them

__________________
Since 1999: 69 Adult Industry awards for Best Hosting Company and professional excellence.


WP Stuff

RawAlex

Umm, he works there. He might point it out to someone over there that gives a flying fuck (more than most people around here give, apparently).

jayeff

If that really is your view and you aren't just making a juvenile attempt at being "cool", I suggest you find another occupation. You clearly don't have a clue.

baddog

That is like some asking guy on the assembly line why GM doesn't invest more money on developing a car that runs on water.

RawAlex

Not in the slightest. I am not asking Michael himself to do anything - except perhaps mention it to people who do have the power.

Sort of like asking a board member of GM to ask the CEO why they don't build more electric cars.

Why do I start to think you make money on toolbar installs?

vvq

ok. but is targeting service providers and sponsors really going to stop this? your war is with the wrong people. there is always going to be someone taking the installs. maybe you should start something to create awareness with consumers. it's their computer. it's honestly their responsability to make sure it's not being turned into a zombie machine. the only reason anyone here is attempting to interject themselves into the equation is because you're losing money. while i agree the people doing that shit need to be stopped, realistically it probably won't ever happen.

we're in the porn business. morals and ethics aren't exactly high up on our list. but the second someone does something you're morally against it's time to lay down the law and make heads roll? please please. spyware isn't going to be stopped there is too much money in it. it's like trying to stop all the free content going around. it can't be done at this point.

i'm not saying get into the spyware game and start doing illegal shit. i'm saying stop beating a dead horse. deal with it. the problem is with a bunch of morons that let their boxes get compromised. you're not gonna solve that problem by posting about shit on GFY.

__________________

RawAlex

vvg, if it was a question of morals, I would debate you all day on the good and the bad. The reality is that this isn't a moral issue like "do we show pink on page 1 or not" but "do we allow people who breach computer security to make money from the same sources we use"?

I'm dealing with it the way I know how - working to remove the easy money and easy hosting that these assholes use to break into end users computers, and to rewards "webmasters" who think it is a great idea to "sell installs" to a sponsor.

I can do that, or I can call each internet user individually and talk to them for 20 minutes each about how not to allow this shit to get into their computer.

I figure my route will have better results at least in the short run.

If you think it is a dead horse, why not just go play in another thread instead? To some of us, this is still an important issue (but I suspect it isn't an issue in the traffic business, because you are likely buying traffic from them, one click removed).

vvq

i don't touch scum traffic. like i said. go boycott walmart. money motivates your decision on this issue. nothing else.

__________________

RawAlex

Yes, money motivates my decision on this issue. Someone steals my money, I am motivated to get rid of them. Abusing potential customers, violating the security of their systems, and installing spyware, malware, zombies, and other horseshit on their machines steals my money. Damn fucking right I am motivated.

I will assure you that if you buy traffic from TGPs, you are almost certainly buying toolbar traffic and helping to support rootkit installers. it is unavoidable. Some of the largest trading sites on the net are fronts for it. I suspect that your arrogance about the subject is as much motivated by your own bottom line.

vvq

Listen. If you shop at WalMart you support Zango. I just picked up a fucking bottle of lemonade and the Snakes on a Plane DVD when i was out earlier. Please don't crucify me at the stake for indirectly supporting botnets when I do my shopping at WalMart.

__________________

RawAlex

Congrats, you no longer make an ounce of sense.

Perhaps you should have picked up a more healthy beverage?

vvq

Zango Blacklist

Worst Offenders

1. AdultFriendFinder.com
2. theHomeMarketPlace.com
3. SexSearch.com
4. BeyondTrade.net
5. LiveSell.net
6. StrategyAuction.com
7. RealTimeAuction.net
8. CrazyAuctionBargains.com
9. Big-Auction.com
10. WarnerBros.com
11. Kwik-Buy.com
12. Accessorite.com
13. FlirtatioNow.com
14. SalesShack.com
15. causalsneakers.com
16. ShoesSneakers.com
17. PulseOffers.com
18. ShoppingSnap.com
19. WalMart.com
20. CyberErotica.com

Shouldn't we stop doing business with all the companies on this list? You don't want to indrectly support this spyware botnet russian scamming bullshit!

__________________

RawAlex

vvg, welcome to "junior high school debate squad" horseshit. Congrats for the major attempt to shift the discussion from scumbags using the adult net infrastructure to make money to my choice of stores to shop at.

Outside of walmat, I don't knowingly do business with any of those companies, and if your information is true (ie, you have a source other than some dubmass's free hosted blog), then I will strike walmart of the list as well.

But, none of that, not one little bit of it, excuses anyone from "selling installs" and it doesn't excuse your company from buying traffic that is almost certainly scumware re-directs.

But we won't let something like actual close to home bother you, right?

I am certain that you have bought more traffic from these guys than I have spent at Walmart this year.

baddog

Because you are an idiot? Just a guess.

vvq

Who am I supposed to believe about the legalities of Zango? Even if I got my information from someones freehosted blog, is that source somehow less creditable than GFY? I typed Zango into Google and this came in a few pages deep. http://www.zangoblacklist.com/

I imagine WalMart, Warner Bros, and all those companies do business with them. Who would of thought such well respected companies would be involved in the seedy underbelly of internet commerce? The russians are fucked now. Corporate America is busting in on the botnet game. Get real...

And I already told you i don't deal with scum traffic at all. Quit being a fucking dickhead. If I'm telling you i don't deal with that shit, i don't. It doesn't make your argument any better to keep saying I do. I'm expressing my opinion here, no one elses. Morally I won't have anything to do with spyware. But if the Zango guys are operating legally I'm not gonna get my panties in a twist over what they're doing. Instead I've taken steps to make sure my cookies aren't being overwritten and that my traffic isn't being stolen. It seems like the smart thing to do.

__________________

baddog

More like asking the janitor to ask the CEO. WTF do you this his position is there?

spacedog

So this is where the affiliate link stealing codecs come from?

stickyfingerz

Fyi myspace sells advertising for zango. They advertise DIRECTLY for Zango.com fyi.. epassporte should stop allowing transactions to myspace I think...