StickyGreen

I like a good conspiracy, but there is nothing much to the 9/11 conspiracy at all...

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hershie

Another good take on it by Popular Mechanics - "Debunking The 9/11 Myths" :

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...42.html?page=6

SmokeyTheBear

not another 9/11 thread ..lol

I think many people on both "sides " of this argument fail to understand that there isnt 1 theory , theres thousands of little ones..

As soon as anyone doubts the official story they are grouped together with the " tinfoil hat theories.

On one hand there are OBVIOUS questions left unanswered , on the other hand, there often is unanswered questions in dramatic situations.. so this isnt in itself conclusive of anything BUT this isnt your regular dramatic situation.

Some of the most burning questions myself are..

#1 the pentagon crash

Why havent they released the footage from several cameras with a CLEAR view of the entire crash. Why after several years did they finallly release footage but it was the exact same footage everyone had seen with like 1 extra frame added. I find it awfully suspicious the local gas station has crystal clear footage but the only released footage is from a crappy camera at the pentagon ? so gas station have better security camera's than the pentagon ? wtf

#2 molton steel at wtc 1&2, i havent seen anything to explain molton steel . the current "pancake" theory is that the steel weakened from the fire and collapsed floor to floor, but doesnt explain how the steel was melted with fires that couldnt possibly have melted them.

#3 wtc7 why dont they just say " it was beyond saving so we pulled our guys out NOT we pulled the building down " why the conflicting stories

#4 the guys ( who are still around ) that had their skin burned off on the lower level of wtc, the elevator shafts arent even connected all the way down so i dont see how they got burned

I think another point people often miss ,is that an "inside job" doesnt require the complicity of everyone. All it takes is a few people. lets assume the cia had good information something was going down but didnt know the when and where. if one head guy said " ignore it , it will prove to be a political goldmine" not realising how big it ended up being , then it was an inside job, doesnt mean EVERYONE fucked up , or even that bush fucked up..

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SmokeyTheBear

some of the big things that to me say this "wasnt" planned or intentionally setup by anyone within the american gov.

#1 the pantagon crash, if it wasnt a plane , where did the people go.. ? If the plane was filled with cia plants , jane does, and john smith's i might be able to believe some sort of switcheroo , but there were quite a few well known people , too many people to keep it secret..

#2 the wtc , the planes undoubtedly cause the building to collapse , despite the obvious glaring discrepency's, it seems again like it would take way too many people to "intentionally" bring them down. as soon as your "theory requires 100's of complacent murderers" to be involved it stops being rational.

#3 too many top ranking officials near or around crash site unless this was so well planned , people felt safe sitting at the opposite side of the pentagon as a missile they knew about was to crash into the other side.. not likely..

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Brad

Thank you Smokey. Well said.

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porno jew

you look for proof of your theory in a gas station camera instead of the hundreds of eyewitnesses who saw a plane hit? wtf indeed.

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_pulled.html

Mr Steele

LOL.. that hit piece was written by the cousin of Michael Chertoff, former Assistant Attorney General and Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security... no conflict of interest there..

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IllTestYourGirls

too many facts with proof. how can you believe that? :sarcasm:

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Scootermuze

According to the FAA's flight schedules for 9/11, that plane never left the ground..

hershie

I suppose you will thus also dismiss the conclusions of the 70 recognized experts consulted for that "hit piece"? How convenient to just reject everything in it as tainted because of some blood relationship of the author. That is how tin foil hat people work their way to their wild theories I guess.

Scootermuze

One being a reporter that was there that said it looked like a cruise missile with wings... But.. oh well... lots of witness saw lots of things..

porno jew

link? proof?

porno jew

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...+Attack--2001))

StickyGreen

LOL. I'm pretty sure they released a full list of the passengers who died on board right? So if they didn't really die in a plane crash then it should be fairly easy to locate them and talk to them right? Gimme a fucking break...

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Sly

Was there a list from the Pentagon flight? Don't hear too much about that one, I really don't know.

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broke

It really is sad that people still think a 747 crashed ANYWHERE on 9/11.

Considering everything...
The wingspan of a 757 is ~124 feet and a tail height of 44 feet fits nicely.
But that is neither here nor there...

6 years later I'm still talking to someone who can't be bothered with details like -- ho hum -- the actual model of aircraft that hit the building.

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StickyGreen

Well that is a good question. I'm sure the list is probably kinda hard to find now. Props to anyone who can dig it up...

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broke

CREW

Charles Burlingame of Herndon, Virginia, was the plane's captain. He is survived by a wife, a daughter and a grandson. He had more than 20 years of experience flying with American Airlines and was a former U.S. Navy pilot.

David Charlebois, who lived in Washington's Dupont Circle neighborhood, was the first officer on the flight. "He was handsome and happy and very centered," his neighbor Travis White, told The Washington Post. "His life was the kind of life I wanted to have some day."

Michele Heidenberger of Chevy Chase, Maryland, was a flight attendant for 30 years. She left behind a husband, a pilot, and a daughter and son.

Flight attendant Jennifer Lewis, 38, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the wife of flight attendant Kenneth Lewis.

Flight attendant Kenneth Lewis, 49, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the husband of flight attendant Jennifer Lewis.

Renee May, 39, of Baltimore, Maryland, was a flight attendant.





PASSENGERS

Paul Ambrose, 32, of Washington, was a physician who worked with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the surgeon general to address racial and ethnic disparities in health. A 1995 graduate of Marshall University School of Medicine, Ambrose last year was named the Luther Terry Fellow of the Association of Teachers of Preventative Medicine.

Yeneneh Betru, 35, was from Burbank, California.

M.J. Booth

Bernard Brown, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Suzanne Calley, 42, of San Martin, California, was an employee of Cisco Systems Inc.

William Caswell

Sarah Clark, 65, of Columbia, Maryland, was a sixth-grade teacher at Backus Middle School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Asia Cottom, 11, was a student at Backus Middle School in Washington. Asia was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

James Debeuneure, 58, of Upper Marlboro, Maryland, was a fifth-grade teacher at Ketcham Elementary School in Washington. He was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Rodney Dickens, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Eddie Dillard

Charles Droz

Barbara Edwards, 58, of Las Vegas, Nevada, was a teacher at Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas.

Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, of University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. He worked on data systems for NASA and also developed data systems for the study of global and regional environmental issues. Falkenburg was traveling with his wife, Leslie Whittingham, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3.

Zoe Falkenberg, 8, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Dana Falkenberg, 3, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Joe Ferguson was the director of the National Geographic Society's geography education outreach program in Washington. He was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. A Mississippi native, he joined the society in 1987. "Joe Feguson's final hours at the Geographic reveal the depth of his commitment to one of the things he really loved," said John Fahey Jr., the society's president. "Joe was here at the office until late Monday evening preparing for this trip. It was his goal to make this trip perfect in every way."

Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American Airlines pilot.

Dee Flagg

Richard Gabriel

Ian Gray, 55, of Washington was the president of a health-care consulting firm.

Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verdes, California.

Bryan Jack, 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.

Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43, of Alexandria, Virginia, was the chief operating officer of Metrocall Inc., a wireless data and messaging company.

Ann Judge, 49, of Virginia was the travel office manager for the National Geographic Society. She was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. Society President John Fahey Jr. said one of his fondest memories of Judge is a voice mail she and a colleague once left him while they were rafting the Monkey River in Belize. "This was quintessential Ann -- living life to the fullest and wanting to share it with others," he said.

Chandler Keller, 29, was a Boeing propulsion engineer from El Segundo, California.

Yvonne Kennedy

Norma Khan, 45, from Reston, Virginia was a nonprofit organization manager.

Karen A. Kincaid, 40, was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding. She joined the firm in 1993 and was part of the its telecommunications practice. She was married to Peter Batacan.

Norma Langsteuerle

Dong Lee

Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, California, was the associate director of clinical research for a biotech firm.

Christopher Newton, 38, of Anaheim, California, was president and chief executive officer of Work-Life Benefits, a consultation and referral service. He was married and had two children. Newton was on his way back to Orange County to retrieve his family's yellow Labrador, who had been left behind until they could settle into their new home in Arlington, Virginia.

Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN and was married to U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson. She twice called her husband as the plane was being hijacked and described some details, including that the attackers were armed with knives. She had planned to take a different flight, but she changed it at the last minute so that she could be with her husband on his birthday. She worked as an investigator for the House Government Reform Committee in the mid-1990s and later worked on the staff of Senate Minority Whip Don Nickles.

Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer.

Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, California, was an electrical engineer with BAE Systems.

Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at the Washington office of Genzyme, a biotechnology firm. She was from Great Falls, Virginia, and was married to Stephen Push. She worked with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on developing a new policy governing cellular therapies, announced in 1997. She also worked on other major health-care legislation.

Todd Reuben, 40, of Potomac, Maryland, was a tax and business lawyer.

John Sammartino

Diane Simmons

George Simmons

Mari-Rae Sopper of Santa Barbara, California, was a women's gymnastics coach at the University of California at Santa Barbara. She had just gotten the post August 31 and was making the trip to California to start work.

Bob Speisman, 47, was from Irvington, New York.

Hilda Taylor was a sixth-grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Leonard Taylor was from Reston, Virginia.

Leslie A. Whittington, 45, was from University Park, Maryland. The professor of public policy at Georgetown University in Washington was traveling with her husband, Charles Falkenberg, 45, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3. They were traveling to Los Angeles to catch a connection to Australia. Whittington had been named a visiting fellow at Australian National University in Canberra.

John Yamnicky, 71, was from Waldorf, Maryland.

Vicki Yancey

Shuyin Yang

Yuguag Zheng

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StickyGreen

Wait a minute. I didn't even know that there was a video of a plane flying into the pentagon. I just watched the video and it is obviously a plane crashing into the pentagon. What the fuck is wrong with people? Close this goddamn thread...

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Sly

It was doctored. Your untrained eye can't tell a fake from a real.

Hehe.

Post a link.

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broke

It really is sad ideologues from either side can't be bothered with factual details.

Ah well.

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Scootermuze

From the Bureau of Transportation

checkbox "Actual Departure Time"
Origin Airport "Washington, DC - Washington Dulles International"
Airline - American Airlines - AA

Then check the month, day and year..

Scootermuze

It's not my schedule.. it's the Government's info...

I have no idea.. and I've said in earlier threads... I'm not saying the gov't was behind it, involved in it, knew about it... yada yada..

I'm just saying that lots of things don't add up..

Scootermuze

Leads to an error...

But if it had anything to do with eye witnesses... There were some that said airliner, some said small plane, some said missile, some said military looking jet and on and on...

I guess you can pull out the ones that fit your needs and say 100's of eyewitnesses saw it... makes no matter to me..

For every one that saw on thing, you'll have someone that saw something else..

Phoenix

exactly...there were many who claimed it was not a plane at all...where are those witnesses now...unheard.

anyway...i dont claim one way or another....however i do think everyone deserves a proper investigation.

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Scootermuze

That'll probably never happen... You have, "experts" on both sides of the fence giving opposing arguements which just lead back to, "Hmmm what actually happened?"

porno jew

facts mean nothing to the

tony286

First off congrats to the loose change guys, thats a home run for them. I dont think personally think it was a inside job, too many people would of had to be involved and this admin isnt that precise lol

hershie

It is the "true believers" of one sort or the other who flock to this conspiracy stuff like moths to a flame. The difference is they think the rest of us are drinking the government fed kool-aid.

hershie

Just give me one lucid theory on "what actually happened" to all the people who were booked on those flights.

broke

You'll NEVER get your wish.

I've watched a handful of those people booked on/working on UA93 and UA175 be put in the ground, though.

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Scootermuze

First, I wasn't referring to, 'those flights' .. just flight 77... and I have no idea.. I'm not an expert.. Just one with some unanswered questions that sure won't be answered in here..

Phoenix

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...riendid=354 9

interesting news clips from the actual day

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Sly

Who really killed JFK?

Did the CIA kill Bob Marley?

Did we really land on the moon?

Why do packages of hot dogs and buns have different counts?

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broke

No ideologues reporting there...

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EZRhino

What cruise missle? There was a freeway full of witnesses who saw plane hit the building.
Here is his statement about it and you can see that in this version the clip of his discription is of the event is not edit. It was hard to find the original clip since so many liberal websites want to spin his statement on 9/11/01 and edit out what he really said. Mike Walter

DatingGold

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that's all I have to say on that.

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WarChild

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SmokeyTheBear

umm ya , camera footage is better proof than third party hearsay any day..

i'm not asking for proof the plane hit , reread what i said.. i asked about the footage..


who said anything about thermite..? thats not answering a question lol thats called avoiding the question with meaningless drivel..

What you just did is exactly what my whole post was about. people lumping people together...

I asked WHAT caused the molton steel , not what didnt cause it lol i could post a trillion things that "didnt " cause it.


interesting but it neither answers my question nor really has anything to do with it.. nohing new there just rehash of already known info.

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mattz

yeah no shit, this really shows how fucking stupid American's are / everyone else

SmokeyTheBear

third party hearsay is not proof. proof is the several videotapes that recorded the entire crash..

If your children were killed and the whole accident was caught on videotape, would you be satisfied with a eyewitness account of what happened. or would you like to see the actual video tape.

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porno jew

"NIST concluded that the source of the molten material was aluminum alloys from the aircraft, since these are known to melt between 475 degrees Celsius and 640 degrees Celsius (depending on the particular alloy), well below the expected temperatures (about 1,000 degrees Celsius) in the vicinity of the fires. Aluminum is not expected to ignite at normal fire temperatures and there is no visual indication that the material flowing from the tower was burning.

Pure liquid aluminum would be expected to appear silvery. However, the molten metal was very likely mixed with large amounts of hot, partially burned, solid organic materials (e.g., furniture, carpets, partitions and computers) which can display an orange glow, much like logs burning in a fireplace. The apparent color also would have been affected by slag formation on the surface."

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

Splum

One eyewitness maybe but not THOUSANDS.

SmokeyTheBear

thats kind of a silly statement dont you think.

I would think our academic testing is the best guage of how "stupid" people are.. especially when its concerning something that happens in your backyard.. its only natural i would think that there are more skeptics when the situation happens to you as opposed to a diff country in a diff place.

besides that i'm not even sure your argument holds water.. i havent seen any "country by country" stats yet on 9/11 opinion , but i doubt theres any huge differences

read my thread entitled " penis melting zionist robot combs" then maybe you will understand true stupidity.

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porno jew

no one ever said "we pulled the building down."

how can i debate you when you make up facts?

SmokeyTheBear

i havent heard of any thousands, i have seen less than a half dozen people actually witness it . im sure there are more , but "thousands" is pure imagination. especially since those "thousands" would all have diff stories..

I think your full of shit actually seriously I'll reask the question and even grant you more eyewitnesses

If 1 million people witnessed your family die in an accident , and the accident BY ALL RATIONAL accounts was questionable ( ie no car no family ) would you NOT want to view the actual crash caught on videotape. cmon now answer honestly.. you would wnt to see the videotape AND listen to the accounts. Thats all i'm asking.

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Sly

Smokey where is this video? I've never seen it.

Is this the gas station video from the first page? Using the same high quality technology gas stations typically use that have a difficult time identifying someone stealing a Snickers bar 5 feet away from the camera? Or is this an actual quality taping?

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SmokeyTheBear

you cant debate shit because it wasnt a debate or a fact , try re-reading what i wrote it willmake more sense..

The statement i made was what they were supposed to say not what they said..

Instead of jumping to disprove me why not read what i said properly..

I dont think anything fishy happened with wtc7. I think during a hectic situation they realised quite early on they werent going to have the resources to save the building , i'm not sure if they "pulled" it or "pulled out" of it doesnt really matter though other than the fact they werent honest about it. all i asked is for them to be honest , set the record straight..

the statement you quoted was my opinion on what they "should" say

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porno jew

Splum

Smokey is simply a sig whore, he doesnt really believe his own shit.