Man arrested for using cafes free wifi from his car!!! - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

baddog · 05-25-2007, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagi_AFF

What if Bill's Coffee shop has free wireless because he knows people sticking around will soon be thirsty? The network owners need to disclose the terms or secure the network. Simple as that.

You can try to justify it all you want, but if you were in front of a judge, is that what your defense would be? "I thought they wanted me to hang around until I was thirsty?"

baddog · 05-25-2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagi_AFF

not according to the article

I thought you were talking about the cop being bored.

royaljelly2 · 05-25-2007, 11:06 AM

LOL wow they dont have anything better to do than book people using interenet connections. My gawd.

Penthouse Tony · 05-25-2007, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

You can try to justify it all you want, but if you were in front of a judge, is that what your defense would be? "I thought they wanted me to hang around until I was thirsty?"

I'm not interpreting law here. I'm saying it's a dumb ass law. The technology makes it pretty easy to protect your network. I prefer not having dumb laws on the books that try to protect people from their own stupidity.

baddog · 05-25-2007, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagi_AFF

When I walk into a bank and I see candies out on the table I assume it's free. I also assume that open WiFi is free.

Do you go walking into banks that you do not do business at to score free candy?

Want me to talk to Lars and see if I can help you get a raise?

Penthouse Tony · 05-25-2007, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

I thought you were talking about the cop being bored.

I was and you said both the cop and the guy had a feeling the something was wrong.

donkevlar · 05-25-2007, 11:09 AM

This quote from the cop makes me hate cops even more:

"I had a feeling a law was being broken, but I didn't know exactly what,"

And then instead of a warning for this huge gray area he arrests him and it gets on the news?

Penthouse Tony · 05-25-2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Do you go walking into banks that you do not do business at to score free candy?

Want me to talk to Lars and see if I can help you get a raise?

no i'm good

CDSmith · 05-25-2007, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagi_AFF

I also assume that open WiFi is free.

But according to the law it's not.

What now?

Pleasurepays · 05-25-2007, 11:13 AM

i can't believe that people are arguing that business owners are providing free internet as a some sort of philanthropic public service... and that no one sincerely, genuinely has any idea that it might be not only morally and ethically questionable, but illegal to drive around looking for free wi-fi connections to surf from.

Hollywood Horwitz · 05-25-2007, 11:16 AM

what I noticed is the only way to prove the person is actually using the internet connection is to admit it, you could easily just say I'm using my own connection or switch screens if he comes to your car, I doubt a police officer would even know the difference.

Penthouse Tony · 05-25-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDSmith

But according to the law it's not.

What now?

My point all along has been this is a dumb ass law.

Pleasurepays · 05-25-2007, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagi_AFF

Standing on the corner of a street and you pick up a WiFi signal. I'll ask again how do you find the owner?

standing on the street... you see a motorcyle running and no one around... how do you know not to steal it? how do you know its not just free to use? how do you know its not just a community motorcycle?

THE POINT IS THAT, JUST LIKE WITH THE WI-FI CONNECTION... YOU KNOW WITH 100% CERTAINTY THAT ITS NOT YOURS.

rapmaster · 05-25-2007, 11:41 AM

eh... it's almost like a don't ask don't tell type of thing. Sure, we all know stealing wireless is not really on the level, but in the event of an emergency/urgent situation I use anything I have available

People with completely unsecure networks are opening themselves up to potential problems, including illegal activity being conducted on th network. Without a TOS/popup page (which is probably relatively easy to do), businesses are really just asking for it

That doesn't justify leeching off of the wireless, but if I'm just trying to access my bank account or email for legit purposes - I won't feel bad for even one second doing it

With the resources available to local cops, it's pretty damn near impossible for them to catch someone unless they volunteer the information. Unsecured wirless = sitting duck

if you're not secure you must assume that people will at some point use your wireless connection - that's a solid assumption. And hey, if you realize that and still want an unsecured network, then great.

CDSmith · 05-25-2007, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagi_AFF

My point all along has been this is a dumb ass law.

Then get it changed. Until then at least some of us are going to obey it, and would appreciate the direct fiesta's of the world with their insufferable flawed logic not cock off at us for it.

Cheers. :D

directfiesta · 05-25-2007, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

I am pretty sure you realize that networks are named. You don't think that a network named San Jose WiFi vs Sally's Coffee Shop wifi might help clue you in to whether or not it is a free, city provided wifi?

So you assume that a guy not even able to protect his wi-fi , will be able to rename his router to his business name ....

peeperpimp · 05-25-2007, 11:47 AM

Its a FREE accessible public area just like a public bathroom, If you don't want people to use it lock it up... or specify that its for paying customers only... as most business do....

Once again FREE ACCESSIBLE PUBLIC AREA

If U build a park in the middle of the city, and dont fence it in, aswell as post signs saying its "Private Property" people are gonna walk thru it

Pleasurepays · 05-25-2007, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peeperpimp

Its a FREE accessible public area just like a public bathroom, If you don't want people to use it lock it up... or specify that its for paying customers only... as most business do....

Once again FREE ACCESSIBLE PUBLIC AREA

If U build a park in the middle of the city, and dont fence it in, aswell as post signs saying its "Private Property" people are gonna walk thru it

you sound like a child defending MP3's. just because its there.. just because no one takes significant steps to stop you from stealing... doesn't put you in the right.

you can build a park in the middle of the city without a sign saying "private property" they are still trespassing on private property when they walk through it. no one has any obligation to take extra steps to prevent others from breaking the law.

rapmaster · 05-25-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by directfiesta

So you assume that a guy not even able to protect his wi-fi , will be able to rename his router to his business name ....

pretty soon this shouldn't be a problem - New routers let users type in the desired name and password when setting the router up with the software.

Plus, if you don't know the basics of wireless internet (or can't follow directions), you either shouldn't be using it or someone else should set it up for you

peeperpimp · 05-25-2007, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

you can build a park in the middle of the city without a sign saying "private property" they are still trespassing on private property when they walk through it. no one has any obligation to take extra steps to prevent others from breaking the law.

Your absolutely right but if they dont take those extra steps how will anyone know if its private property or not...

and lets say you decided to walk thru said park on your way to somewhere else should you get arrested for it even though no one told you or specified it was private property to begin with???

Wouldn't you think you were just taking a stroll thru the park and doing nothing wrong???

Ketchup · 05-25-2007, 11:57 AM

Hi, is it possible to see how many people are connected on to your unsecure connection? Is there a program for that?

Thanks!

uvort · 05-25-2007, 11:59 AM

"Whether or not you agree with the legality of using an open WiFi network without the owner's authorization, one thing is painfully clear: if you're going to leech, try not to do it from a parked car right in front of the building."

Lol. Thats great.

rapmaster · 05-25-2007, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uvort

"Whether or not you agree with the legality of using an open WiFi network without the owner's authorization, one thing is painfully clear: if you're going to leech, try not to do it from a parked car right in front of the building."

Lol. Thats great.

heh.. I could still do it in front of the building in my car and they couldn't do shit - not cause they don't have the power, just because I'm not a retard

peeperpimp · 05-25-2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ketchup

Hi, is it possible to see how many people are connected on to your unsecure connection? Is there a program for that?

Thanks!

sure, just go to your router IP where you access your router panel

Pleasurepays · 05-25-2007, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peeperpimp

Your absolutely right but if they dont take those extra steps how will anyone know if its private property or not...

and lets say you decided to walk thru said park on your way to somewhere else should you get arrested for it even though no one told you or specified it was private property to begin with???

Wouldn't you think you were just taking a stroll thru the park and doing nothing wrong???

you really don't seem to get it. i dont need to put a sign above my front door saying "NO PUBLIC RESTROOM" to prevent people from coming into my house at any time, day or night to take a piss. and "how was i supposed to know his home wasn't a public toilet" isn't going to get you a pass in court.

you don't need to take steps to prevent others from breaking the law. they are expected to not break the law. whether or not people can take additional steps to prevent these situations, has nothing to do with the other person breaking the law.

peeperpimp · 05-25-2007, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

you really don't seem to get it. i dont need to put a sign above my front door saying "NO PUBLIC RESTROOM" to prevent people from coming into my house at any time, day or night to take a piss. and "how was i supposed to know his home wasn't a public toilet" isn't going to get you a pass in court.

you don't need to take steps to prevent others from breaking the law. they are expected to not break the law. whether or not people can take additional steps to prevent these situations, has nothing to do with the other person breaking the law.

I'm not getting the impression that you seem to be getting it eigther.... this is not about a private home / place its a public place / area so there is a considerably understood diferrence...

Aswell as a diferrent perception of applicably acceptible laws...

it may not be acceptible and may be considered to be against laws to walk into someones house (i.e. trespass) but that doesn't apply to public areas

But than again we could just B misunderstanding each other in which case we're both right

Pleasurepays · 05-25-2007, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peeperpimp

I'm not getting the impression that you seem to be getting it eigther.... this is not about a private home / place its a public place / area so there is a considerably understood diferrence...

Aswell as a diferrent perception of applicably acceptible laws...

it may not be acceptible and may be considered to be against laws to walk into someones house (i.e. trespass) but that doesn't apply to public areas

But than again we could just B misunderstanding each other in which case we're both right

you said the "park" in your example was private property. thats where it ends. its private property. the owner doesn't need to take any steps at all to warn people that its private property... you trespass, you're in the wrong. end of story.

whether or not he could take extra steps to prevent trespassing is irrelevant. the fact that he doesn't, does not make it ok to trespass on his land.

rapmaster · 05-25-2007, 12:24 PM

Oh, I forgot to mention... the Staples Wireless Network has BANNED GFY!

what a travesty

Ketchup · 05-25-2007, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peeperpimp

sure, just go to your router IP where you access your router panel

hmm ok I think this computer I reformated it after I set up the router and it doesn't have any router program on it that I see( I just searched)

If I go to the router website (SMC) and download the software...thats the router panel?

hha I know so little about hardware

Thanks!

baddog · 05-25-2007, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ketchup

Hi, is it possible to see how many people are connected on to your unsecure connection? Is there a program for that?

Thanks!

yes there is a way to tell

http://192.168.2.1/lan_dhcp.html for Belkin . . . leave pass blank

peeperpimp · 05-25-2007, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

you said the "park" in your example was private property. thats where it ends. its private property. the owner doesn't need to take any steps at all to warn people that its private property... you trespass, you're in the wrong. end of story.

whether or not he could take extra steps to prevent trespassing is irrelevant. the fact that he doesn't, does not make it ok to trespass on his land.

Your absolutely correct in your point....

But will you please try to understand mine its diferrent than yours...

my point is that even though your trespassing your not aware of it...

I dont think anybody would be since the owner didn't take the extra optional steps to make others aware of it...

It doesn't make it right but should you go to jail / get arrested for it???, I don't think so...

There's no expectation of privacy and or no expectation that people will stay off it... if no notice of any kind is given in such an area...

Although I consider assumptions to be ignorrant, in this day & age people simply just assume and expect that public areas are free for all...

so if the owner doesn't take those extra optional steps (which he doesn't have to) than how could he expect others to know what his expectations are...

After all everyones terms are diferrent...

and some people / communities do put up parks and public AREAS for others to use free...

Example: 2 diferrent parks one public one private both identical in every way with no notices of any kind on eighter...

U walk thru both can you tell which one U trespassed on???

The minute you'd make a judge aware of that situation and the fact that no notice of any kind was given a judge most likely will throw it out of court...

and would consider it nonsense for the owner of said property to even have U arrested, since theres no way for U to have known what the owners expectations where...

Same applies for public WiFi connections since its considered a public area (Not Physical area but still public area non the less)

I should know, since I just asked a relative of mine who's a judge in the state of NJ

collegeboobies · 05-25-2007, 01:02 PM

If I was arrested, I would sue Microsoft and whoever made my network card. I turn on my laptop, its connected, I dont have a choice to connect or not, no pop up, if you leave your network open, my computer connects. I'd be rich.

Ketchup · 05-25-2007, 01:09 PM

ok let me check it out, thanks!

peeperpimp · 05-25-2007, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ketchup

hmm ok I think this computer I reformated it after I set up the router and it doesn't have any router program on it that I see( I just searched)

If I go to the router website (SMC) and download the software...thats the router panel?

hha I know so little about hardware

Thanks!

no U'd access your panel on the net
i.e. http://yourisprouterip

Contact your ISP they'll give U the ip address

JP513 · 05-25-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedShoe

Take your laptop tp Maui. Open it up on any street in Kahului and you get internet. That's theivery?? Who the fuck am I supposed to pay? Just send a check into the city of Kahului? It's not a secure service. I mean you don't need an acces spas or anything. It just works.

Upcountry I have a desktop and an actual paid connection but if we're out and about you can just get it. I mean it's an XP so it's always just connected to the wifi in town.

And naw man, seriously I had no idea you had to pay for it.

How do you pay for it though? Like if Starbucks has an open connection and 8 other stores in the area do as well, who do you pay?

Redshoe . . . it might be totally a free, legal service in Maui. I'm not usre of this, but that law is Michigan . . . I do know some communities provide free open access.

peeperpimp · 05-25-2007, 01:30 PM

Diferrent states diferrent laws, what may be acceptible in one may not be in another (it Varies)

d-null · 05-25-2007, 01:36 PM

DO THE POLICE EVEN HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXAMINE YOUR COMPUTER TO SEE IF IT IS CONNECTED TO THE STORE'S WIFI??

This just seems crazy to me that charges were every possibly even layed in these cases, without them calling in network experts to access the routers to get mac address info for connections and then acquiring some type of search warrants to get access to the surfers laptop computer.

The guy obviously messed up by incriminating himself to the cop instead of keeping his mouth shut or denying. In none of these cases I can't see how they didn't get off.

NinjaSteve · 05-25-2007, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

you really don't seem to get it. i dont need to put a sign above my front door saying "NO PUBLIC RESTROOM" to prevent people from coming into my house at any time, day or night to take a piss. and "how was i supposed to know his home wasn't a public toilet" isn't going to get you a pass in court.

you don't need to take steps to prevent others from breaking the law. they are expected to not break the law. whether or not people can take additional steps to prevent these situations, has nothing to do with the other person breaking the law.

Maybe the cafe should say "Internet for paying customers only" just like "restrooms for paying customers only"

peeperpimp · 05-25-2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetjet

DO THE POLICE EVEN HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXAMINE YOUR COMPUTER TO SEE IF IT IS CONNECTED TO THE STORE'S WIFI??

NO they don't... in the artical the guy kept coming back and after a while he was asked and he told 'em what he was doing.

peeperpimp · 05-25-2007, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaSteve

Maybe the cafe should say "Internet for paying customers only" just like "restrooms for paying customers only"

YEP...

2012 · 05-25-2007, 01:48 PM

I had an apartment building next door going to town on my wireless until I decided to simply secure the connection ... then I felt bad that I ended everyones internet

uno · 05-25-2007, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagi_AFF

I'm going to open an oxygen bar and have everyone that walks by and breaths in some of the oxygen that leaks out arrested for not paying for it.

Maybe I'll have a mural painted on the outside facade for my customers to look at. Anyone who walks by and just looks but doesn't shop will also be arrested.

Not a very good comparison.

Take that same oxygen bar, but now you have people coming in and adding extra holes to the oxygen hose to put in their own nosepieces without paying.

d-null · 05-25-2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uno

Not a very good comparison.

Take that same oxygen bar, but now you have people coming in and adding extra holes to the oxygen hose to put in their own nosepieces without paying.

that's an even worse comparison

It would be like an outdoor concert charging people for setting up lawnchairs just outside the fence or on a close by buildings rooftop to enjoy the music for free.

uno · 05-25-2007, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagi_AFF

Quite the opposite, this is a case of the law not understanding the technology. The technology allows you to secure networks that you don't want just anyone to access.

Like spyware/adware/scumware!

peeperpimp · 05-25-2007, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uno

Not a very good comparison.

Take that same oxygen bar, but now you have people coming in and adding extra holes to the oxygen hose to put in their own nosepieces without paying.

in this case the holes where already there owner (added the holes himself ) didn't bother to blug 'em up...

sharp · 05-25-2007, 02:03 PM

lol that's shitty.

uno · 05-25-2007, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetjet

that's an even worse comparison

It would be like an outdoor concert charging people for setting up lawnchairs just outside the fence or on a close by buildings rooftop to enjoy the music for free.

Eh, I was working with what i had.

Penthouse Tony · 05-25-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaSteve

Maybe the cafe should say "Internet for paying customers only" just like "restrooms for paying customers only"

That doesn't help since you can obviously access the network from outside the cafe and may never see the sign.

Penthouse Tony · 05-25-2007, 03:23 PM

I guess all I'm trying to say is that I think people should be expected to be smart enough to protect themselves and therefore their networks. Some people here would rather have the law protect them. That's fine. Just remember that the laws are made by people who say things like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Stevens

I just the other day got... an Internet was sent by my staff at 10 o'clock in the morning on Friday, I got it yesterday. Why? Because it got tangled up with all these things going on the Internet commercially.

[...] They want to deliver vast amounts of information over the Internet. And again, the Internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a big truck. It's a series of tubes. And if you don't understand those tubes can be filled and if they are filled, when you put your message in, it gets in line and it's going to be delayed by anyone that puts into that tube enormous amounts of material, enormous amounts of material.

Zuzana Designs · 05-25-2007, 03:27 PM

Damn that is crazy !!!

05-25-2007, 11:09 AM	#107
donkevlar Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,325	This quote from the cop makes me hate cops even more: "I had a feeling a law was being broken, but I didn't know exactly what," And then instead of a warning for this huge gray area he arrests him and it gets on the news? __________________ [email protected]

05-25-2007, 11:16 AM	#111
Hollywood Horwitz Porn To ROCK! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hollywood Posts: 4,357	what I noticed is the only way to prove the person is actually using the internet connection is to admit it, you could easily just say I'm using my own connection or switch screens if he comes to your car, I doubt a police officer would even know the difference. __________________ Ross Horwitz Skype: RossAngeles666 Online Ad Sales / Email / Display Ads / Mobile Cell.323.949.4313 [email protected]

05-25-2007, 11:41 AM	#114
rapmaster Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,576	eh... it's almost like a don't ask don't tell type of thing. Sure, we all know stealing wireless is not really on the level, but in the event of an emergency/urgent situation I use anything I have available People with completely unsecure networks are opening themselves up to potential problems, including illegal activity being conducted on th network. Without a TOS/popup page (which is probably relatively easy to do), businesses are really just asking for it That doesn't justify leeching off of the wireless, but if I'm just trying to access my bank account or email for legit purposes - I won't feel bad for even one second doing it With the resources available to local cops, it's pretty damn near impossible for them to catch someone unless they volunteer the information. Unsecured wirless = sitting duck if you're not secure you must assume that people will at some point use your wireless connection - that's a solid assumption. And hey, if you realize that and still want an unsecured network, then great. __________________ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_Sauer_P226

05-25-2007, 11:47 AM	#117
peeperpimp Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pimpin On The NET!!! Posts: 5,105	Its a FREE accessible public area just like a public bathroom, If you don't want people to use it lock it up... or specify that its for paying customers only... as most business do.... Once again FREE ACCESSIBLE PUBLIC AREA If U build a park in the middle of the city, and dont fence it in, aswell as post signs saying its "Private Property" people are gonna walk thru it __________________ ICQ: 377517467 peeperpimp (at) yahoo (dot) com

05-25-2007, 11:57 AM	#121
Ketchup Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 563	Hi, is it possible to see how many people are connected on to your unsecure connection? Is there a program for that? Thanks! __________________ https://www.instagram.com/tsrocketqueen/ https://torontoshemaleescorts.com

05-25-2007, 11:06 AM	#103
royaljelly2 Confirmed User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,034	LOL wow they dont have anything better to do than book people using interenet connections. My gawd.

05-25-2007, 11:13 AM	#110
Pleasurepays BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I live in a pile of boogers Posts: 11,913	i can't believe that people are arguing that business owners are providing free internet as a some sort of philanthropic public service... and that no one sincerely, genuinely has any idea that it might be not only morally and ethically questionable, but illegal to drive around looking for free wi-fi connections to surf from.

05-25-2007, 11:59 AM	#122
uvort Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Metalcash.com Posts: 3,580	"Whether or not you agree with the legality of using an open WiFi network without the owner's authorization, one thing is painfully clear: if you're going to leech, try not to do it from a parked car right in front of the building." Lol. Thats great. __________________ See Sig. 199907143

05-25-2007, 12:24 PM	#128
rapmaster Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,576	Oh, I forgot to mention... the Staples Wireless Network has BANNED GFY! what a travesty __________________ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_Sauer_P226

05-25-2007, 01:02 PM	#132
collegeboobies So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,644	If I was arrested, I would sue Microsoft and whoever made my network card. I turn on my laptop, its connected, I dont have a choice to connect or not, no pop up, if you leave your network open, my computer connects. I'd be rich.

05-25-2007, 01:09 PM	#133
Ketchup Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 563	ok let me check it out, thanks! __________________ https://www.instagram.com/tsrocketqueen/ https://torontoshemaleescorts.com

05-25-2007, 01:30 PM	#136
peeperpimp Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pimpin On The NET!!! Posts: 5,105	Diferrent states diferrent laws, what may be acceptible in one may not be in another (it Varies) __________________ ICQ: 377517467 peeperpimp (at) yahoo (dot) com

05-25-2007, 01:36 PM	#137
d-null . . . Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NY Posts: 13,724	DO THE POLICE EVEN HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXAMINE YOUR COMPUTER TO SEE IF IT IS CONNECTED TO THE STORE'S WIFI?? This just seems crazy to me that charges were every possibly even layed in these cases, without them calling in network experts to access the routers to get mac address info for connections and then acquiring some type of search warrants to get access to the surfers laptop computer. The guy obviously messed up by incriminating himself to the cop instead of keeping his mouth shut or denying. In none of these cases I can't see how they didn't get off.

05-25-2007, 01:48 PM	#141
2012 So Fucking What Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 17,189	sheee it I had an apartment building next door going to town on my wireless until I decided to simply secure the connection ... then I felt bad that I ended everyones internet __________________ best host: Webair \| best sponsor: Kink \| best coder: 688218966 \| Go Fuck Yourself

05-25-2007, 02:03 PM	#146
sharp Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,006	lol that's shitty.

05-25-2007, 03:27 PM	#150
Zuzana Designs All Your Design Needs Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: [email protected] Posts: 20,787	Damn that is crazy !!! __________________ Website Design - Consulting - Development sarah [at] zuzanadesigns.com - See Our Work Need a SFW landing page or tour for age verification?