Is this the solution, or part of it, to Torrent sites? - GoFuckYourself.com

Paul Markham · 08-26-2007, 01:20 AM

We all move over to DRM.

The one thing Torrent sites need is ready prepared content. So we all move over to DRM and cut off the supply of content. They will need to buy content to keep going. Can't steal ours if it's not available. Would this work?

Will billing companies come together and refuse to bill for site giving out non DRM?

Will sponsors take the short term loss for the long term future?

Will affiliates only send traffic to sites that only have DRM content?

Probably the answer is no, no and no. Which shows what the long term view of this industry is.

ServerGenius · 08-26-2007, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

We all move over to DRM.

The one thing Torrent sites need is ready prepared content. So we all move over to DRM and cut off the supply of content. They will need to buy content to keep going. Can't steal ours if it's not available. Would this work?

Will billing companies come together and refuse to bill for site giving out non DRM?

Will sponsors take the short term loss for the long term future?

Will affiliates only send traffic to sites that only have DRM content?

Probably the answer is no, no and no. Which shows what the long term view of this industry is.

No, no, no.......all for multiple reasons....and DRM sucks balls anyway

b.t.w. 1 guy buys membership.....plays and rips vid to new file......redistributes......

Paul Markham · 08-26-2007, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ServerGenius

No, no, no.......all for multiple reasons....and DRM sucks balls anyway

Maybe you would like to point them out to us.

My understanding is DRM stops the video being played after the membership expires. So stopping it from being uploaded to Torrent sites.

What is so bad about DRM?

I'm just thinking a bit more positively than dreaming Torrent sites will disappear.

Paul Markham · 08-26-2007, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ServerGenius

No, no, no.......all for multiple reasons....and DRM sucks balls anyway

b.t.w. 1 guy buys membership.....plays and rips vid to new file......redistributes......

So basically DRM does not stop the video from being copied. Sorry I never looked at it as an alternative to the present.

Is there a system of stopping a member downloading to his computer and copying the video?

baddog · 08-26-2007, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

What is so bad about DRM?

Surfers don't like it from what I understand.

baddog · 08-26-2007, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Is there a system of stopping a member downloading to his computer and copying the video?

ummm . . . .

WiredGuy · 08-26-2007, 01:40 AM

Surfers hate DRM. So much so that they'll convert it to any other format before distributing anything DRM'd on a torrent.
WG

Jace · 08-26-2007, 01:40 AM

there is no way to stop someone that wants to copy the video, there is software that will record your desktop or portions of it.....content thiefs can just record the video being played

there is always a way, the only thing we can do is make it VERY hard to do

ServerGenius · 08-26-2007, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Maybe you would like to point them out to us.

My understanding is DRM stops the video being played after the membership expires. So stopping it from being uploaded to Torrent sites.

What is so bad about DRM?

I'm just thinking a bit more positively than dreaming Torrent sites will disappear.

DRM stops playing the original DRM file already......but you can just grab the
stream into a new file and you're rid of the DRM.

It's also expensive to encode the media with the DRM license which is done on the fly upon purchase.

why would billers decide to restrict payments to just one type of product?
It will never happen for more than obvious reasons

that's better?

Paul Markham · 08-26-2007, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ServerGenius

DRM stops playing the original DRM file already......but you can just grab the
stream into a new file and you're rid of the DRM.

It's also expensive to encode the media with the DRM license which is done on the fly upon purchase.

why would billers decide to restrict payments to just one type of product?
It will never happen for more than obvious reasons

that's better?

Thanks for the explanation. I was told it would stop the video playing after the membership expired. I was told wrong.

So we have only one solution to the problem of Torrent sites. We have to make life a bit harder for them by attacking their capabilities to have advertisers, bill and host.

But more importantly we have to win the surfer over to us. We have to sell him the product he wants at a price he's willing to pay. And it can be done.

And please if you don't know how to do that then start thinking about a new career. Because the survivors will be those who do know.

ServerGenius · 08-26-2007, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Thanks for the explanation. I was told it would stop the video playing after the membership expired. I was told wrong.

So we have only one solution to the problem of Torrent sites. We have to make life a bit harder for them by attacking their capabilities to have advertisers, bill and host.

But more importantly we have to win the surfer over to us. We have to sell him the product he wants at a price he's willing to pay. And it can be done.

And please if you don't know how to do that then start thinking about a new career. Because the survivors will be those who do know.

There's a lot more options actually.....

Better content protection.....this is what everybody should do

Fighting anyone who STEALS and DISTRIBUTES unauthorized copyrighted content.....you shouldn't look at torrent sites as competition......coz you
can't compete with a market that gets the content YOU are paying for for
free and then GIVES IT AWAY to the surfer for Free........it's ILLEGAL
and it should NOT be tolerated PERIOD. Same goes for companies that
supporting it.......also ILLEGAL.

Win back consumer trust and goodwill.....many of us have been scamming the surfer for
years with shady biling tricks as pre-checked cross sales, making it impossible
to cancel memberships.....double charges......and providing them with products not worth paying for..........

develope new ways of content which allows member interaction.....coz that's
not so easy to steal.....

ServerGenius · 08-26-2007, 02:07 AM

another good one is tap into the localized markets......coz they're less interesting to globaly redistribute....

Sexy Rex · 08-26-2007, 05:28 AM

I don't think there is any solution in attacking torrent sites. Do you think the music industry is going to win the war over torrent sites? We won't either.

I don't think there is any solution around data protection. Unless you product can't be copied (dating etc), it will be cracked and made available to everyone for free.

I believe there is a solution based on pricing. I used to get most of my music on p2p but I've been buying it on russians sites for a while now. Price is so low (about $1 per album) that I don't mind paying it to be able to navigate on a well organised website. I'm not saying russian music sites are legal, I'm just saying that the days where we were making surfers pay $39.95 a month are quickly coming to an end and that the first ones who'll be able to figure out a way to deliver porn cheap enough for surfers not to worry about torrents will win the game.

My 2cc

potter · 08-26-2007, 08:03 AM

paul, please stop.

Paul Markham · 08-26-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ServerGenius

There's a lot more options actually.....

Better content protection.....this is what everybody should do

Fighting anyone who STEALS and DISTRIBUTES unauthorized copyrighted content.....you shouldn't look at torrent sites as competition......coz you
can't compete with a market that gets the content YOU are paying for for
free and then GIVES IT AWAY to the surfer for Free........it's ILLEGAL
and it should NOT be tolerated PERIOD. Same goes for companies that
supporting it.......also ILLEGAL.

Win back consumer trust and goodwill.....many of us have been scamming the surfer for
years with shady biling tricks as pre-checked cross sales, making it impossible
to cancel memberships.....double charges......and providing them with products not worth paying for..........

develope new ways of content which allows member interaction.....coz that's
not so easy to steal.....

You can't stop them without goverments changing laws, but what you can do is use the Norma Zada approach and start dragging people into court.

However I'm with you about getting the product and the price right.

geeknik · 08-26-2007, 09:09 AM

DRM is not and will not ever be the answer. Just accept it and move on.

Paul Markham · 08-26-2007, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sexy Rex

I believe there is a solution based on pricing. I used to get most of my music on p2p but I've been buying it on russians sites for a while now. Price is so low (about $1 per album) that I don't mind paying it to be able to navigate on a well organised website. I'm not saying russian music sites are legal, I'm just saying that the days where we were making surfers pay $39.95 a month are quickly coming to an end and that the first ones who'll be able to figure out a way to deliver porn cheap enough for surfers not to worry about torrents will win the game.

My 2cc

What most of the moaners will not admit to is if you could stop them stealing content the days of selling $30 memberships are drawing to a close. We only do it to please affiliates. Once the surfer realises the real price should be a few dollars you won't be able to sell a $30 membership, no matter how much traffic you throw at it. Well maybe a few.

I proved it here magic join links and $5 porn site memberships.

The surfer will but porn if you get the product and price right.

BlackCrayon · 08-26-2007, 09:13 AM

The best solution right now is ISP's throttling bittorrent ports which is happening on at least several big ISP's right now. Though dsl never seems to do it which would be a problem.

BlackCrayon · 08-26-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

What most of the moaners will not admit to is if you could stop them stealing content the days of selling $30 memberships are drawing to a close. We only do it to please affiliates. Once the surfer realises the real price should be a few dollars you won't be able to sell a $30 membership, no matter how much traffic you throw at it. Well maybe a few.

I proved it here magic join links and $5 porn site memberships.

The surfer will but porn if you get the product and price right.

I can't believe you have a success business sometimes. You are saying that sites with hours of content and 1000's of pics are only worth a few dollars a month? Why? Do you see porn dvds being sold for $5? No, the quality ones go for at least 30 bucks each and then you are lucky to get 2-3 hours of content maybe 5-6 scenes. Now some sites are only worth a few bucks, those guys won't last forever, hopefully. Shitty member areas hurt us all.

ServerGenius · 08-26-2007, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

You can't stop them without goverments changing laws, but what you can do is use the Norma Zada approach and start dragging people into court.

However I'm with you about getting the product and the price right.

Most countries have laws in place for piracy.....the problem is that as an
industry we cry and hope law enforcement will send swat teams and arrest
them......it doesn't work that way....we ourselves have to start the process

Dragging people to court is the last option though if we work together a
little bit we can get a LOT done without having to go to court.....and that's
the biggest problem......we cry but we're not willing enough yet to put some
collective effort in taking care of the problem........

Will all of this ever go away.....probably not.....but we can do a lot more
to protect our business and content than we're doing right now.....so we
can either keep crying and keep others fucking our pooh-holes without lube
or we can take some action.......

the ball is in our court.....pick it up and play ball!

Iron Fist · 08-26-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ServerGenius

develope new ways of content which allows member interaction.....coz that's not so easy to steal.....

There you have it folks. You see the business model of buying content and recycling it for years on end is over - why is "social networking" sites like facebook so attactive? Because it's that dynamic element everyone is looking for, something fresh, something updated, something reviewed, something compared, something competitve.

Wouldn't it be cool, if I could play ONE real multiplayer game with the model hosting? With webcam? Fuck the content... I'd pay just to do that.. and know it's not fake. Here come the rebills folks - keep people interested and then... and heres the catch...

Make the site exclusive - you can't overload your models on remaining interactive - say a signup of 200 - 400 members max and once it's full... they go on the waiting list - but wait - the waiting list doubles as an double opt-in on signup, and prequalifies credit card sales!

You see... torrent sites work because webmasters are bent on reusing old content and making people pay for it - the content should be given away and be the draw to the site, wouldn't it suck if I saw some free content and then tried to signup only to be told I COULDN'T? Market it like YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT YOUR MISSING - THESE 400 MEMBERS ARE JUST AS HARDCORE AS THE GIRL - YOUR ESTIMATED WAIT TIME IS XXX DAYS - YOU COULD BE RIGHT HERE PARTYING NIGHTLY WITH XXXXXXX! Presignup and get on the wait list!

So 400 rebills at $25.00 a month is $10K - pay the model $2-3K and walk away with a nice profit after costs. Could it work? Well depends on if the model is willing to go long term and is a GOOD ACTRESS - theres going to be all kinds of ugly signing up - she needs to put on her happy face and make them all feel like gods.

Anyways, just a thought....

tony286 · 08-26-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

I can't believe you have a success business sometimes. You are saying that sites with hours of content and 1000's of pics are only worth a few dollars a month? Why? Do you see porn dvds being sold for $5? No, the quality ones go for at least 30 bucks each and then you are lucky to get 2-3 hours of content maybe 5-6 scenes. Now some sites are only worth a few bucks, those guys won't last forever, hopefully. Shitty member areas hurt us all.

I agree with you, you want to rent a porn at the local adult store by me its 6 bucks night and you have to take it back. I dont believe in gorging the customer but giving it away for 3 dollars isnt the answer and what paul doesnt seem to understand 3 dollars versus free. Free always wins, instead of being so defeatist on this. Give the people who are going to be fighting a chance to get some results considering they are fighting for you also. If you dont want to help out great then at least have the courtesy to be quite and give it a chance.

Phoenix · 08-26-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

The best solution right now is ISP's throttling bittorrent ports which is happening on at least several big ISP's right now. Though dsl never seems to do it which would be a problem.

yes...but then people go through vpn and go around that

very hard to cut out people

SpacemanSpiff · 08-26-2007, 09:22 AM

I think it will stop when some court somewhere finally sets the precedent that facilitating the illegal distribution of copyrighted material makes you just as liable as the people that are actually doing it, and massive monetary judgments are handed down turning over all proceeds from the illegal activities to the infringed parties, plus a huge punitive award that leaves the dirtbags sitting in an empty lot, scratching their heads and going "what the fuck just happened?"

tony286 · 08-26-2007, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharphead

There you have it folks. You see the business model of buying content and recycling it for years on end is over - why is "social networking" sites like facebook so attactive? Because it's that dynamic element everyone is looking for, something fresh, something updated, something reviewed, something compared, something competitve.

Wouldn't it be cool, if I could play ONE real multiplayer game with the model hosting? With webcam? Fuck the content... I'd pay just to do that.. and know it's not fake. Here come the rebills folks - keep people interested and then... and heres the catch...

Make the site exclusive - you can't overload your models on remaining interactive - say a signup of 200 - 400 members max and once it's full... they go on the waiting list - but wait - the waiting list doubles as an double opt-in on signup, and prequalifies credit card sales!

You see... torrent sites work because webmasters are bent on reusing old content and making people pay for it - the content should be given away and be the draw to the site, wouldn't it suck if I saw some free content and then tried to signup only to be told I COULDN'T? Market it like YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT YOUR MISSING - THESE 400 MEMBERS ARE JUST AS HARDCORE AS THE GIRL - YOUR ESTIMATED WAIT TIME IS XXX DAYS - YOU COULD BE RIGHT HERE PARTYING NIGHTLY WITH XXXXXXX! Presignup and get on the wait list!

So 400 rebills at $25.00 a month is $10K - pay the model $2-3K and walk away with a nice profit after costs. Could it work? Well depends on if the model is willing to go long term and is a GOOD ACTRESS - theres going to be all kinds of ugly signing up - she needs to put on her happy face and make them all feel like gods.

Anyways, just a thought....

Torrents work because they are giving it away for free. Photoshop upgrades all the time and its all over BT's. I love this its our fault we are being stolen from, its funny.

BlackCrayon · 08-26-2007, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix

yes...but then people go through vpn and go around that

very hard to cut out people

I know with rogers that worked for a while but then they blocked that too. People talk about it all the time on the dslreports.com forums.

Iron Fist · 08-26-2007, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

Torrents work because they are giving it away for free. Photoshop upgrades all the time and its all over BT's. I love this its our fault we are being stolen from, its funny.

Thats what im saying - imagine visiting a site where the tour is all her sets - but the video and real interactive portion is when you sign up - you want to really meet and speak with her - signing up in the only solution. And it's a kind of double edged sword as well, as you beat the torrent sites at their own game - people would rather get their files form the source if given the choice, BUT, if everyone started giving away content, well, it sets a new expectation as well - one that won't be reversed all that easily, if ever.

ServerGenius · 08-26-2007, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

Torrents work because they are giving it away for free. Photoshop upgrades all the time and its all over BT's. I love this its our fault we are being stolen from, its funny.

It's not our fault we're being stolen from......it's our fault not doing anything
about it......except cry

tony286 · 08-26-2007, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ServerGenius

It's not our fault we're being stolen from......it's our fault not doing anything
about it......except cry

I agree now people are taking a stand and they are being bashed.

ServerGenius · 08-26-2007, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

I agree now people are taking a stand and they are being bashed.

Yup but that's ok....coz the people who bash others are the ones that never
do anything else than that......makes them feel better for their own failures

fuzebox · 08-26-2007, 10:17 AM

1) surfers hate DRM, any site that offers DRM-free content will become instantly popular

2) DRM can be broken faster than the time it took me to compose this post.

Gerco · 08-26-2007, 10:24 AM

1. DRM adds cost and work to production.
2. NO DRM is unbreakable, even apple has seen this and now offers DRM free itunes.
3. There are many, VERY simple ways for the average enduser to "record" streams and redistubute, bypassing your original DRM'd file anyways.
4. Tech support issue raise, meaning more time people to support members.
5. Members get fustrated FAST... = Lossing said member.

Solution to torrent site, In my eyes it's a simple one. GO AFTER THE SOURCE!

Sue some of the endusers actually uploading the contnet, or making it avaliable sharing in the first place. Yes, this is a pain, yes, this might not amount to much, but it would scare the shit out of most people once the word gets out that it's happening, and there is NO where to hide. There is no easy answers here, and some people are just going to have to be made an example off for the reality of pirating to sink in.

stev0 · 08-26-2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

We all move over to DRM.

The one thing Torrent sites need is ready prepared content. So we all move over to DRM and cut off the supply of content. They will need to buy content to keep going. Can't steal ours if it's not available. Would this work?

Will billing companies come together and refuse to bill for site giving out non DRM?

Will sponsors take the short term loss for the long term future?

Will affiliates only send traffic to sites that only have DRM content?

Probably the answer is no, no and no. Which shows what the long term view of this industry is.

Someone will decode it and put it up anyways... The Paris Hilton tape was DRM on it's original site and that was ripped in less than a day and availible everywhere.

RawAlex · 08-26-2007, 11:26 AM

Yes Paul, the answer is to lower the price of paid porn to a point where it is so low that nobody will bother to steal it. They will make more money stealing used bubblegum and recycling condoms than stealing porn.

Pennies per clip. That's the way!

Dirty Dane · 08-26-2007, 11:34 AM

Flood the torrent sites with all kind of shits. Then ppl will stop downloading.

08-26-2007, 01:20 AM	#1
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	Is this the solution, or part of it, to Torrent sites? We all move over to DRM. The one thing Torrent sites need is ready prepared content. So we all move over to DRM and cut off the supply of content. They will need to buy content to keep going. Can't steal ours if it's not available. Would this work? Will billing companies come together and refuse to bill for site giving out non DRM? Will sponsors take the short term loss for the long term future? Will affiliates only send traffic to sites that only have DRM content? Probably the answer is no, no and no. Which shows what the long term view of this industry is. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

08-26-2007, 01:40 AM	#7
WiredGuy Pounding Googlebot Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 34,482	Surfers hate DRM. So much so that they'll convert it to any other format before distributing anything DRM'd on a torrent. WG __________________ I play with Google.

08-26-2007, 02:07 AM	#12
ServerGenius Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 9,377	another good one is tap into the localized markets......coz they're less interesting to globaly redistribute.... __________________ \| http://www.sinnerscash.com/ \| ICQ: 370820 \| Skype: SinnersCash \| AdultWhosWho \|

08-26-2007, 05:28 AM	#13
Sexy Rex Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: President/CEO - iStripper.com Posts: 1,164	I don't think there is any solution in attacking torrent sites. Do you think the music industry is going to win the war over torrent sites? We won't either. I don't think there is any solution around data protection. Unless you product can't be copied (dating etc), it will be cracked and made available to everyone for free. I believe there is a solution based on pricing. I used to get most of my music on p2p but I've been buying it on russians sites for a while now. Price is so low (about $1 per album) that I don't mind paying it to be able to navigate on a well organised website. I'm not saying russian music sites are legal, I'm just saying that the days where we were making surfers pay $39.95 a month are quickly coming to an end and that the first ones who'll be able to figure out a way to deliver porn cheap enough for surfers not to worry about torrents will win the game. My 2cc __________________ WWW.ISTRIPPER.COM Unique Desktop Strippers since 1998, 20+ Millions users, 3000+ Girls to choose from, All UHD Exclusive Content.

08-26-2007, 08:03 AM	#14
potter Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Denver Posts: 6,559	paul, please stop. __________________

08-26-2007, 01:40 AM	#8
Jace FBOP Class Of 2013 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: bumfuck, ky Posts: 35,562	there is no way to stop someone that wants to copy the video, there is software that will record your desktop or portions of it.....content thiefs can just record the video being played there is always a way, the only thing we can do is make it VERY hard to do

08-26-2007, 09:09 AM	#16
geeknik l337 h4x0r!#% Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: OKC, OK, USA Posts: 8,364	DRM is not and will not ever be the answer. Just accept it and move on. __________________ hacker 4 hire.

08-26-2007, 09:13 AM	#18
BlackCrayon Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 19,631	The best solution right now is ISP's throttling bittorrent ports which is happening on at least several big ISP's right now. Though dsl never seems to do it which would be a problem. __________________ you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

08-26-2007, 09:22 AM	#24
SpacemanSpiff Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: 5th and main Posts: 230	I think it will stop when some court somewhere finally sets the precedent that facilitating the illegal distribution of copyrighted material makes you just as liable as the people that are actually doing it, and massive monetary judgments are handed down turning over all proceeds from the illegal activities to the infringed parties, plus a huge punitive award that leaves the dirtbags sitting in an empty lot, scratching their heads and going "what the fuck just happened?" __________________ Freepicssex.com - Submit Your Free Sites

08-26-2007, 10:17 AM	#31
fuzebox making it rain Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: seattle Posts: 22,113	1) surfers hate DRM, any site that offers DRM-free content will become instantly popular 2) DRM can be broken faster than the time it took me to compose this post.

08-26-2007, 10:24 AM	#32
Gerco Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,052	1. DRM adds cost and work to production. 2. NO DRM is unbreakable, even apple has seen this and now offers DRM free itunes. 3. There are many, VERY simple ways for the average enduser to "record" streams and redistubute, bypassing your original DRM'd file anyways. 4. Tech support issue raise, meaning more time people to support members. 5. Members get fustrated FAST... = Lossing said member. Solution to torrent site, In my eyes it's a simple one. GO AFTER THE SOURCE! Sue some of the endusers actually uploading the contnet, or making it avaliable sharing in the first place. Yes, this is a pain, yes, this might not amount to much, but it would scare the shit out of most people once the word gets out that it's happening, and there is NO where to hide. There is no easy answers here, and some people are just going to have to be made an example off for the reality of pirating to sink in. __________________ Http://www.extremehole.com ** CLOSED ** 400 HOURS of exclusive custom extreme content, already on external HD in Raw DV ready to encode. over 150,000 exclusive images and more.

08-26-2007, 11:26 AM	#34
RawAlex So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a house. Posts: 9,465	Yes Paul, the answer is to lower the price of paid porn to a point where it is so low that nobody will bother to steal it. They will make more money stealing used bubblegum and recycling condoms than stealing porn. Pennies per clip. That's the way!

08-26-2007, 11:34 AM	#35
Dirty Dane Sick Fuck Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: www Posts: 9,491	Flood the torrent sites with all kind of shits. Then ppl will stop downloading.