Do we really hate scammers? - GoFuckYourself.com

Paul Markham · 10-13-2007, 12:10 AM

Seriously why do we hate scammers? Simple question and the answer is simple. They scam us. But do we really hate scammers in total?

No fucking way, we as an industry love them and do our utmost to support them at every possible opportunity. We hate the ones that take money from us short term yes, but love and support the ones that take far more out of our pockets long term.

Think about it for a minute and assume someone you like is writing this.

Most industries selling a highly consumable short usage product will build customer retention within their company and in buying their product. Some products we buy without looking at the brand. Supermarkets, bars and restaurants are excellent examples of this. We have our favourites but buy in many.

This industry sells a lie, girls do not get in the back of vans and fuck strangers and this part of the porn industry has little problem scamming surfers. Think about why you send traffic to a site, is it because the site will pay out the most regardless of what the surfer gets or the surfer will like what he buys and keep buying porn on the Internet?

Selling a free join that rebills in 3 days for $100 so they can pay you is a scam. Sending the surfer to a site that frankly is not worth membership because it pays you well is a scam. Sending the surfer to a dating site that is not 100% truthful about the people on it is a scam.

Telling yourself it's "buyer beware" is an excuse to be a scammer.

Scamming the surfer has cost us all far more than all the Spyware, Torrent and Tube sites combined.

Now dating sites, which are probably the biggest scam of all are not only scamming surfers, they're scamming people in the industry. Who's surprised?

We made our bed now we have to lie in it.

Do you want an honest industry, then make sure you're honest first.

Sorry but it needed to be said with all the ranting about scammers going on. The scammees don't like being scammed.

(I include myself in the above, girls I shoot are not raving nymphos who fuck anything with a pulse.)

Papillon · 10-13-2007, 12:15 AM

Balalsubturfyooj is that you ?

Vlad · 10-13-2007, 12:16 AM

nice post Paul

thats deep, and true.

Aussie Rebel · 10-13-2007, 12:20 AM

Man all your posts are the same, why don't you make one post and keep bumping it? Talking to you about any of this shit is like talking to your own foot,

smutnut · 10-13-2007, 12:23 AM

To scam or not to scam, that is the question.

2012 · 10-13-2007, 12:24 AM

So if you're a scammer you were created by another scammer yet afraid to admit that you truly are indeed a scammee with deep intentions of perpetrating scams on other scammers ?

kirupai · 10-13-2007, 12:24 AM

Double standards.

Hey as long as its me getting the money who cares right?

Mutt · 10-13-2007, 12:26 AM

wtf? Bangbus is a scam because it's a lie? you must be going senile Paul - porn is ENTERTAINMENT and FANTASY - no different than Hollywood - the audience suspends its disbelief so it can escape and be entertained - or do you think that a man with a silly red cape and an 'S' on his chest really can fly faster than a speeding bullet?

Bangbus is no more a scam than a David Blaine magic trick. The better the trick is done the more the audience enjoys.

2012 · 10-13-2007, 12:29 AM

advertising is a scam. I worked for an ad agency once and I called them all lairs

Paul Markham · 10-13-2007, 12:38 AM

There are degrees of fantasy and advertising. Of course the surfer knows, like Hollywood, it's fantasy. It's just entertainment. But sending him to a site that's a rip off is a scam.

Think about it a bit deeper guys and work out what hurts the industry the most. Having customers who have been scammed has done more harm to our bottom line than all the people scamming us.

Not talking about individuals, talking about us as an industry and the righteous anti scammer threads and posts recently.

D · 10-13-2007, 12:41 AM

Hate is a strong word.

Scamming, in my book, equals dishonesty. Blatant Misrepresentation.

Honesty = Reputation = Everything, in any regard of life. If I felt I was deceiving people - or being dishonest witrh them in any way, I'd stop doing what I was doing and do something else in an instant. Life's too short for that shit.

To equate pro-am content with scamming is asinine. It's fantasy - there's typically a disclaimer that says so. And, that aside, that's like saying "Forest Gump" is a scam because Lieutenant Dan didn't really get his legs blown off.

To say "caveat emptor" is an excuse to scam is also ridiculous... the idea is a general rule of doing trades since before the ancient Sumerians.

I agree peeps need to keep tabs on themselves, but to insinuate that the industry is inherently dishonest is profoundly stupid, imho.

Papillon · 10-13-2007, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

There are degrees of fantasy and advertising. Of course the surfer knows, like Hollywood, it's fantasy. It's just entertainment. But sending him to a site that's a rip off is a scam.

Think about it a bit deeper guys and work out what hurts the industry the most. Having customers who have been scammed has done more harm to our bottom line than all the people scamming us.

Not talking about individuals, talking about us as an industry and the righteous anti scammer threads and posts recently.

you are one of these guys that likes to 'preach' because you think everyone is ill informed or not as educated as you but straight up you dont know what you're talking about

Paul Markham · 10-13-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papillon

you are one of these guys that likes to 'preach' because you think everyone is ill informed or not as educated as you but straight up you dont know what you're talking about

So would you say we as an industry deliver a good quality product that is value for money and reflects the true cost.

Or would you say we could do better.

Or would you say we are on balance not giving the surfer what he should be getting?

I had my "Irony meter" turned up on full this morning and it suddenly struck me that if we cared as much about not scamming the surfer as we care about us not getting scammed we would all be a lot better off.

The main reason we struggle today to make money is a wary - educated - surfer. Maybe we should not of taught him so well.

D think about what I'm writing, selling a fantasy is not the problem, it's when we sell a lie that it's wrong.

Let's face it and be real. The only reason we got our CBs under one percent was because we were forced to and even today I see sites upselling the surfer on a "free join" for a $110 after a few days. And webmasters saying they will pull their links because the guy is scamming them!!!!!

So scamming the surfer is fine?

Yes it's better today, but we still have a long way to go and it would be nice to hear more about sites and affiliates scamming surfers.

pornask · 10-13-2007, 10:39 AM

After reading your post, Paul... I'm sort of happy with myself. I have always been very selective about whom I promote and even with multi site sponsors I would only promote sites that I would join myself.

What I have never done and never will, is promoting penis enlargement pills and the such. Regardless of how much money I could make. Even if it solved all my financial needs. I would not be able to live with a thought that I that I have knowingly lured someone into buying a sugar pill that doesn't work and made a 100% guarantee that there will be one more disappointed man out there. This is just plain terrible and I have to admit I never have and never would promote anything that is this unethical...

Kevsh · 10-13-2007, 11:18 AM

Maybe a tad off-topic, but since you mentioned dating sites ... there's a very big reason I barely touch them (and altogether stopped now). The GEO ads, in part, are completely dishonest esp. when they're using solo girls in the pics.

I try to value every click on a site I make, so if I mislead them - by suggesting they click on an ad by the mere presence of it on my site - do you think they will trust me again?

DamageX · 10-13-2007, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D

but to insinuate that the industry is inherently dishonest is profoundly stupid, imho.

Take a close look at some of the biggest names in this industry and tell me it's not very easy to come to that conclusion.

buzzy · 10-13-2007, 11:51 AM

I love paul markham because he may not know it but his posts are highly entertaining because they are so awful.

RudeBoy · 10-13-2007, 11:55 AM

It's called entertainment fool

fatfoo · 10-13-2007, 12:12 PM

we hate the scammers that scam us

we love the scammers that scam for us !!

pocketkangaroo · 10-13-2007, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

This industry sells a lie, girls do not get in the back of vans and fuck strangers and this part of the porn industry has little problem scamming surfers. Think about why you send traffic to a site, is it because the site will pay out the most regardless of what the surfer gets or the surfer will like what he buys and keep buying porn on the Internet?

So every TV show, movie, wrestling event, Broadway play, and song is a scam?

Violetta · 10-13-2007, 12:17 PM

nah...saturday. Im going out!

Iron Fist · 10-13-2007, 12:59 PM

I have to admit, burning the surfer by promising one price and charging them another (although in tiny lettering) does make it increasingly difficult for them to trust us. I make sure I don't promote "free" or "$1" trials, because how can a program do $40 PPS on $1 trials without fucking the surfer over somehow...

Yeah i konw, the surfer should of read the fine print and blah blah blah... but the bottom line is that why do we need to be deceptive to get a surfer to sign up in the first place. If they are signing up for $1 then it says they value your content at $1.

woj · 10-13-2007, 01:39 PM

It's a common problem, not just in the adult industry, known as Tragedy of the Commons...

eroswebmaster · 10-13-2007, 01:41 PM

LOL @ the folks who can't see that the Emperor is truly wearing no clothes.

Beaver Bob · 10-13-2007, 01:44 PM

some good points Paul. I agree on most of what you are saying there.

minusonebit · 10-13-2007, 03:34 PM

Yes Paul, you are right. This industry makes its bed and largely deserve everything it gets, including the loss of earnings and poor retention. I am amazed at how little the industry has changed in the last 10 years or so.

10-13-2007, 12:10 AM	#1
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	Do we really hate scammers? Seriously why do we hate scammers? Simple question and the answer is simple. They scam us. But do we really hate scammers in total? No fucking way, we as an industry love them and do our utmost to support them at every possible opportunity. We hate the ones that take money from us short term yes, but love and support the ones that take far more out of our pockets long term. Think about it for a minute and assume someone you like is writing this. Most industries selling a highly consumable short usage product will build customer retention within their company and in buying their product. Some products we buy without looking at the brand. Supermarkets, bars and restaurants are excellent examples of this. We have our favourites but buy in many. This industry sells a lie, girls do not get in the back of vans and fuck strangers and this part of the porn industry has little problem scamming surfers. Think about why you send traffic to a site, is it because the site will pay out the most regardless of what the surfer gets or the surfer will like what he buys and keep buying porn on the Internet? Selling a free join that rebills in 3 days for $100 so they can pay you is a scam. Sending the surfer to a site that frankly is not worth membership because it pays you well is a scam. Sending the surfer to a dating site that is not 100% truthful about the people on it is a scam. Telling yourself it's "buyer beware" is an excuse to be a scammer. Scamming the surfer has cost us all far more than all the Spyware, Torrent and Tube sites combined. Now dating sites, which are probably the biggest scam of all are not only scamming surfers, they're scamming people in the industry. Who's surprised? We made our bed now we have to lie in it. Do you want an honest industry, then make sure you're honest first. Sorry but it needed to be said with all the ranting about scammers going on. The scammees don't like being scammed. (I include myself in the above, girls I shoot are not raving nymphos who fuck anything with a pulse.) __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

10-13-2007, 12:24 AM	#6
2012 So Fucking What Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 17,189	So if you're a scammer you were created by another scammer yet afraid to admit that you truly are indeed a scammee with deep intentions of perpetrating scams on other scammers ? __________________ best host: Webair \| best sponsor: Kink \| best coder: 688218966 \| Go Fuck Yourself Last edited by 2012; 10-13-2007 at 12:25 AM.. Reason: scammoliscious

10-13-2007, 12:26 AM	#8
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	wtf? Bangbus is a scam because it's a lie? you must be going senile Paul - porn is ENTERTAINMENT and FANTASY - no different than Hollywood - the audience suspends its disbelief so it can escape and be entertained - or do you think that a man with a silly red cape and an 'S' on his chest really can fly faster than a speeding bullet? Bangbus is no more a scam than a David Blaine magic trick. The better the trick is done the more the audience enjoys. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

10-13-2007, 12:29 AM	#9
2012 So Fucking What Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 17,189	advertising is a scam. I worked for an ad agency once and I called them all lairs __________________ best host: Webair \| best sponsor: Kink \| best coder: 688218966 \| Go Fuck Yourself

10-13-2007, 12:38 AM	#10
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	There are degrees of fantasy and advertising. Of course the surfer knows, like Hollywood, it's fantasy. It's just entertainment. But sending him to a site that's a rip off is a scam. Think about it a bit deeper guys and work out what hurts the industry the most. Having customers who have been scammed has done more harm to our bottom line than all the people scamming us. Not talking about individuals, talking about us as an industry and the righteous anti scammer threads and posts recently. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

10-13-2007, 12:15 AM	#2
Papillon Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 254	Balalsubturfyooj is that you ?

10-13-2007, 12:16 AM	#3
Vlad Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: gone Posts: 2,864	nice post Paul thats deep, and true.

10-13-2007, 12:20 AM	#4
Aussie Rebel Blow Me U Geeks Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Maximum Security Posts: 5,108	Man all your posts are the same, why don't you make one post and keep bumping it? Talking to you about any of this shit is like talking to your own foot,

10-13-2007, 12:23 AM	#5
smutnut So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Babylon Posts: 5,889	To scam or not to scam, that is the question.

10-13-2007, 12:24 AM	#7
kirupai Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: California Posts: 894	Double standards. Hey as long as its me getting the money who cares right?

10-13-2007, 12:41 AM	#11
D Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Valley Posts: 7,412	Hate is a strong word. Scamming, in my book, equals dishonesty. Blatant Misrepresentation. Honesty = Reputation = Everything, in any regard of life. If I felt I was deceiving people - or being dishonest witrh them in any way, I'd stop doing what I was doing and do something else in an instant. Life's too short for that shit. To equate pro-am content with scamming is asinine. It's fantasy - there's typically a disclaimer that says so. And, that aside, that's like saying "Forest Gump" is a scam because Lieutenant Dan didn't really get his legs blown off. To say "caveat emptor" is an excuse to scam is also ridiculous... the idea is a general rule of doing trades since before the ancient Sumerians. I agree peeps need to keep tabs on themselves, but to insinuate that the industry is inherently dishonest is profoundly stupid, imho. __________________ -D. ICQ: 202-96-31

10-13-2007, 10:39 AM	#14
pornask So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: 253-233-241 Posts: 6,518	After reading your post, Paul... I'm sort of happy with myself. I have always been very selective about whom I promote and even with multi site sponsors I would only promote sites that I would join myself. What I have never done and never will, is promoting penis enlargement pills and the such. Regardless of how much money I could make. Even if it solved all my financial needs. I would not be able to live with a thought that I that I have knowingly lured someone into buying a sugar pill that doesn't work and made a 100% guarantee that there will be one more disappointed man out there. This is just plain terrible and I have to admit I never have and never would promote anything that is this unethical...

10-13-2007, 11:18 AM	#15
Kevsh Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: TO Posts: 8,619	Maybe a tad off-topic, but since you mentioned dating sites ... there's a very big reason I barely touch them (and altogether stopped now). The GEO ads, in part, are completely dishonest esp. when they're using solo girls in the pics. I try to value every click on a site I make, so if I mislead them - by suggesting they click on an ad by the mere presence of it on my site - do you think they will trust me again?

10-13-2007, 11:51 AM	#17
buzzy Confirmed User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,606	I love paul markham because he may not know it but his posts are highly entertaining because they are so awful.

10-13-2007, 11:55 AM	#18
RudeBoy Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 290	It's called entertainment fool __________________ " Richard (03:37 PM) : how are one touch cockie."

10-13-2007, 12:12 PM	#19
fatfoo ICQ:649699063 Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 27,763	we hate the scammers that scam us we love the scammers that scam for us !! __________________ Send me an email: [email protected]

10-13-2007, 12:17 PM	#21
Violetta Affiliate Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 28,735	nah...saturday. Im going out! __________________ M&A Queen

10-13-2007, 12:59 PM	#22
Iron Fist Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 23,400	I have to admit, burning the surfer by promising one price and charging them another (although in tiny lettering) does make it increasingly difficult for them to trust us. I make sure I don't promote "free" or "$1" trials, because how can a program do $40 PPS on $1 trials without fucking the surfer over somehow... Yeah i konw, the surfer should of read the fine print and blah blah blah... but the bottom line is that why do we need to be deceptive to get a surfer to sign up in the first place. If they are signing up for $1 then it says they value your content at $1. __________________ i like waffles

10-13-2007, 01:39 PM	#23
woj <&(©¿©)&> Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 47,882	It's a common problem, not just in the adult industry, known as Tragedy of the Commons... __________________ Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000 Affiliate program tools: Hosted Galleries Manager Banner Manager Video Manager Wordpress Affiliate Plugin Pic/Movie of the Day Fansign Generator Zip Manager

10-13-2007, 01:41 PM	#24
eroswebmaster March 1st, 2003 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seat 4 @ Venetian Poker Room Posts: 20,295	LOL @ the folks who can't see that the Emperor is truly wearing no clothes. __________________ For rent - ICQ 127-027-910 Click here for more details

10-13-2007, 01:44 PM	#25
Beaver Bob Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 1,099	some good points Paul. I agree on most of what you are saying there. __________________ Spunky Dollars \| Need Content? Paysite Owners: Protect Your Members Area with Strongbox 361-574-229

10-13-2007, 03:34 PM	#26
minusonebit So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: [email protected] Posts: 7,391	Yes Paul, you are right. This industry makes its bed and largely deserve everything it gets, including the loss of earnings and poor retention. I am amazed at how little the industry has changed in the last 10 years or so.