SpyCam

Suggest me some adult bizz friendly EU based banks (post URLs if possible) that don't ask stupid questions, work with offshore companies and do not have requirements to load the account with 50-100k EUR at the time the account was opened...

Also, the bank should have a good internet banking application and issue credit cards.

Thank you.

polish_aristocrat

finding such a bank may take you half a year....

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GreyWolf

No such thing SpyCam - all banks, whether offshore on onshore have a "know your customer" policy. If you are going to ask for an account for an offshore corp - banks will vary and depends on the jurisdiction of the corp.

If you are talking about eg a Gibraltar or Cyprus corp (or one based somewhere within the EU) - should be no problem. If it's a corp based in eg Panama, Belize or the Caribbean islands - more of a problem and may not be an account they would want. There are conflicting laws on this and technically an OS corp should really have a bank account within an offshore area, but can have other accounts elsewhere - the prime aim being to retain the privacy priviledges of offshore corps.

SpyCam

Well, I remember the guy posting on GFY that he would email the bank names, but he never did. I remember polish_aristocrat posting in that thread too.

I'm OK with "know your customer" policy, not trying to stay anonymous or so. Banks anyways sign the papers with the owners of the company and they know who owns them.

k0nr4d

Most of the union-wide banks such as citibank, ing, etc should do most of what you want.

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SpyCam

hmmm
i actually would like to make all the paperwork and account opening without the need to visit the bank in whatever country it is...

GreyWolf

OK - If your corp is within the EU almost any major bank would be interested in your account. If the corp is based outside the EU - I'd be looking at a major banks within the EU which have OS branches as well (they may come in useful) - banks like Barclays, HSBC, Scotiabank (Canadian-based but OK) etc. There is more chance of hooking up with someone there with a clue (the usual staff prob don't know about OS, but can find out procedures from management or connect you with the right person).

The "friendly" aspect is a variable thing - they can be a law to themselves and often depends on the branch manager, but never ever had a problem with adult corp accounts in the EU - and the management/staff knew exactly what we were doing.

SpyCam

i see,
well, i didn't feel about going through all this myself, as i thought someone who's already having their accounts at some European banks would share the bank names... Is it a secret or what?
My OS company is not EU based, i have a bank account with EU bank that i'm not quite satisfied, that's why i wanted to find something better.

GreyWolf

OK.. It's probably going to be a long process to get to the right person, but both Barclays, HSBC are on the net under whatever country tld - eg .co.uk for the UK (http://www.hsbc.co.uk etc) and no secret.

polish_aristocrat

I posted there indeed and after reminding the poster who offered bank names as you say it, he emailed me back. Basically he said he's offering help in establishing european bank accounts as as side-business (as it seemed to me) and he names one bank in the Czech Republic with full online banking, which he said would normally rather not accept international clients, but after being introduced by him, it probably would.

He also said he can help in establishing Austrian bank accounts for those who require bigger balances, without naming these banks though.

Personally I was not interested in a Czech bank account for sure at that time so I didn't really communicate with him further.

about one month ago, a GFY user "bigfire" from what i remember (but can be wrong) said that either Barclays or HBSC arent really friendly towards any online biz at all. It wouldnt surprise me if this was true.

it really seems to me that the banking world has changed really a lot and opening an offshore account seems harder each year.

It's not that you just apply for a personal account offshore, claim internet income and you'll get accepted ;-)

neither is spending a few $k on opening some corporation in Belize or Panama a guarantee that the serious banks in Europe will suddenly treat you better.

it can be quite hard to set-up such a simple offshore presence if you're not very big

anyway, question to the thread starter SpyCam, you complained that no one here names any names, but you didn't name your bank either.

You said you have already an offshore corporation and you have a european bank account for it but it doesnt work good for you. So what are the problems? And which bank are you using/where are you incorporated? Just curious

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polish_aristocrat

gfy times out and i couldnt edit

basically

1. opening a foreign/offshore account is already hard nowadays
2. its even harder if you operate in online biz which is not good understood by banks and includes a greater risk of money laundering etc
2. it may be even harder if its adult

but its definitely doable, just really hard

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polish_aristocrat

gfy timed out and i couldnt edit

basically

1. opening a foreign/offshore account is already hard nowadays
2. its even harder if you operate in online biz which is not good understood by banks and includes a greater risk of money laundering etc
2. it may be even harder if its adult

but its definitely doable, just really hard

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I don't use ICQ anymore.

polish_aristocrat

gfy timed out and i couldnt edit

basically

1. opening a foreign/offshore account is already hard nowadays
2. its even harder if you operate in online biz which is not good understood by banks and includes a greater risk of money laundering etc
2. it may be even harder if its adult

but its definitely doable, just really hard

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justsexxx

You can contact vxsbill, and ask them...I think they work with ABN AMRO

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GreyWolf

Hi PL!

Personally I've never heard of any bank which is known to be particularly friendly to the adult biz - or any biz for that matter At the same time I've never had a problem in.. dunno.. over 30 years with any bank on the basis of the nature of the biz. Most knew exactly what the biz was - others really were not used much and doubt they cared. Hell, we even employed one of our bank managers to handle export credit guarantee processing (he knew all that stuff backwards and did a good job till he retured.)

Both Barclays, HSBC and other prime banks are fine for any kind of business (as long as it's legal). Both these names and others are major banking operations for offshore and onshore and there is a fair chance they will be either in or near the jurisdiction of many OS corps.

Believe you are correct PL in that banking has changed over the years. The effects of the OECD "dictatorship" means they ask for more info as part of the "know your customer" policy and to keep the bank's financial regulators happy.

Can't say much about personal banking OS, - only got a couple of OS personal accounts and it was simply a matter of walking down the road and opening an account. The difference may be I'm legitimately OS and it may be different trying to do this remotely. About opening a private account and claiming internet income - yep - see what you mean. OS biz ops are usually conducted via corps and it would be normal when opening personal accounts to eg say X corp is where I am paid a salary etc. In other words, saying on a personal account that your income comes from the net, means it's a business and not personal. But, there are a fair number of OS banks with online account applications for actual personal accounts.

Only my , but I would not have a corp in Belize or Panama and want an EU bank account for that corp. It's like mixing oil and water - the usual aim is to keep them apart. If a "real" offshore is needed, the corp would be in that real offshore area and it would have banking within probably another real offshore area. If a presence was wanted within the EU, an EU corp would be set up for that purpose (can be in a suitable area - Gib, Cyprus etc)
and it would have banking facilities within the EU. That said, the EU corp could be owned by the "real offshore" corp in the above scenario and this can provide more tools to play with.

Still on a related topic - and you may have noticed this on GFY threads There appears to be a lack of understanding the concept of basic stuff. Example.. anyone who expects others to publish details of their OS bank arrangements have got to be in lala land Offshore is not for tax swindling. People who claim they will provide introductions to banks (usually for a fee) are of very little use - anyone can introduce themselves to any bank and start this process online. Banks are not going to treat anyone "special" because someone who probably does not even have an account at that bank introduced them - the bank wants to know the customer and only the customer can provide that information. The first criteria for using offshore has nothing to do with bank accounts or corps - it is *all* about where the beneficary is resident and nationality. Unless that personal background is "clean" and the beneficary is personally in a scenario to benefit from OS legitimately - it's going to create future problems. Only a guess, but would think with that level of unawareness - I'd hate to see the applications that go into bank for account opening - definately sounds "quality and substance lacking"

Summary! Any decent OS lawyer will set up whatever corp correctly for a few K and, if needed, prepare a POA and provide introduction to a suitable bank. Everything else is "client dependant" and, if they client does not understand whatever aspect, he/she needs to consult the lawyer. The client also needs to be aware of his/her own "background" since it is most likely that the OS lawyer is not qualified to give advice on that (he will not be practising in eg the US, CZ, Sweden or wherever). Dealings with banks are little different onshore or offshore - the same account-opening criteria applies. So.... suppose the first stage is, are we "clean" to engage in OS and where exactly is that juridiction going to be?

End of book

MaDalton

we have no problems with our banks in germany and czech republic. and they know what we do, they even leased us our cameras and lighting

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GreyWolf

Yep Smell this has more to do with client cred than banks being fussy Ma D

Can't see Beate Uhse's corp having these problems

MaDalton

And Orion neither

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GreyWolf

Hehe - Exactly

SpyCam

Well, i didn't tell my bank's name because i don't really recommend it to others, the support is poor, credit cards work bad, internet banking is extremely unfriendly and annoying, the reasons why i'm looking for another bank.

SpyCam

On the other hand, i don't see a problem opening a new OS company in a EU based banks friendly country if the price is right and there's exemption of paying taxes in this country....

If you have something to suggest me, let me know.

GreyWolf

Really depends on your current citizenship Spycam and where you are resident (and too personal to go into here).

If you are a US citizen, it's better to consult both a US lawyer and an offshore lawyer to check the legalities - else stuff can bounce back to cause damage. If you are not a US citizen but wish to remain in your current country of citizenship - there are local taxation issues involved. If you are not a US citizen and resident in a low or no tax regime - no problem whatsoever.

There are a few jurisdictions in the EU which may apply - Gibraltar, Cyprus, possibly Malta or even a simple UK company. They all vary on what they offer and need some reading (the information is available on the net). All these company options would be non-resident. Some differences are - Cyprus requires accounting records be maintained, a UK company would not have taxation if this is declared as non-resident from the start, Gib is changing and there will probably be an element of taxation applicable - tho small.

Where there is taxation applicable, this could be reduced to next to nothing by using your current corp (basically by inter-company invoicing etc). Tho it depends where your current corp exists at the moment - and assuming there is no taxation in that region.

Would suggest you dig into the above possible jurisdictions and select the most suitable for your purpose - then contact an offshore lawyer direct for corp formation and possible banking facilities



PS The vast difference between a "real" offshore and wannabees is that there is no filing on any kind or any reporting requirements other than payment of annual govt duties - it sure saves a lot of work and audit fees, but this is not the norm in any EU corps, tho taxation can still be kept to a minimum.

SpyCam

thank you ;)

SpyCam

also, what do you think about going offshore to Seychelles, having a virtual office in London and bank account with a bank in Isle of Man?

Marshal

http://www.panamalaw.org/jurisdictio...le_of_man.html
if you need any suggestion, feel free to send me an email to nettrust at gmail. i'll be glad to help...

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SpyCam

I emailed you

XMaster

Fortis and Caxia should be fine with your dirty job

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GreyWolf

The aim is to have an EU bank account?

The corp really needs to be within the EU - not in the Seychelles. That is no different to a corp in eg the Caribbean or Panama and doubt a virtual office in London would stand up. Any bank will want copies of corp documents (Mem and Arts plus Apostille or equivalent and any POA) and this would obviously show a Seychelles corp and a standard address check will show a virtual office in London.

The banking in the Isle of Man thing is fine as long as you are not a UK citizen, but really offers nothing special when your EU corp will be known.

GreyWolf

PS... It does appear there is a privacy issue involved?? If so, you need nominee directors (usually the lawyers who form the corp). It is their address or an address they recommend which could be the EU base. They will prob also recommend/intro banks and the bank will be able to verify a legitimate address - it may even be the lawyers office.

Unless the proposed corp is in a Euro "offshore" area - eg Gib, there is little or no privacy protection. In the instance of eg Gibraltar, there are laws prohibiting disclosure

polish_aristocrat

interesting site and interesting comments about certain juridictions to avoid

Austria, Seychelless, Belize etc

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GreyWolf

Believe me PL - when lawyers start having websites as a marketing tool - you can rely on two things

(a) the prices are double with added bs claims

(b) the sales pitch is angled to jurisdictions they happen to be based in.

Both (a) and (b) apply in this instance, but - sure, there is plenty good grounding info there, as long as you remember they are interested in pushing Pamama.



Damned lawyers - like mosquitos they need swatting

SpyCam

yeah, i bet the company that only work to open and manage other offshore country, than Panama, would shurely post some "AVOID IT" facts about Panama
As it now is really weird to see all offshores as not secure and otherwise bad, and Panama is a real heaven

GreyWolf

Panama is actually good for certain purposes SpyCam, but ya got to know what level of slimeballs and liars lawyers in this area can be. It is not the same as eg the EU or even North America (tho they can be bad enough) - it's a much lower level and got no hestitation in telling em to stuff their heads up their asses - sometimes they just need that "legal advice". Tho have no reason to assume Panama Legal are in the same swamp. It's much better to get highly recommended lawyers and slowly test them in - then stick with em