NinjaSteve

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

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...

Socks

I can sum it up in one pic

Socks

MikeSmoke

Every year, the shows are more and more of an excuse to party, mixed with the same seminars we've seen for years, the same old convention floor (until the floor vanished) and the "same" new reps bullshitting about their great new programs that will vanish in six months.

Back in the day, the NatNet Suite was an actual "semi-quiet" venue for real webmasters (not big program owners, but actual webmasters) to meet and talk real "mid-level" business, problem-solving, ideas and partnership suggestions (not big names at the blackjack tables, self-inflated reps pitching pre-paid deals for join numbers most webmasters couldn't possibly hit, or "content producers" who talked a great game about deals they wanted to do and then vanished a week later or never produced crap.)

The NatNet Suite was where I met most of my good friends in the business - and we're still friends, even though most of them ended up doing other things when the salad days were over. It was also a place that was a controlled environment and a hell of a lot of fun, especially when Dokk was at the mike.

Today, I'm almost 54. I have ownership of my own niche. I don't want to party until I drop anymore, and people pushing people into pools or through windows don't amuse me anymore. I don't want to spend time bullshitting with dozens of people who say they can do great business with me and then vanish. I don't want to waste time with reps who've been in the business for three months who want to tell me they can make me 100% more than I'm making now. I don't want to hear the same seminars that I heard in 1999 (albeit with updated information that I already know.)

Most of my good friends are out of the business now, so I don't have a crew to hang with. And I don't want to spend hours at the Circle Bar talking to dozens of people, looking for semi-serious mid-level business people to be friends with. I used to very much enjoy Fay and Dave's shows, because they were small, intimate, and primarily attended by people like me. But those shows grew out of control and morphed into smaller versions of Internext.
Even so, when January came close every year, I always gave in and went anyway. And every year, it got less and less productive.

This year, I have a cat near death, a wife who's eight months pregnant, a friend who's dealing with illness and serious depression - and wasn't able to make the last-minute decision that "fuck it, I'll go anyway." And you know what? I don't miss it at all. Not anymore. What I miss is what it *used* to be.

I know I'll come off as an embittered old-timer who can't change with the times. So be it. The question was asked - and that's my answer. And I know there are others who agree.

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xenigo

I stopped going to shows because I realized - after going to a bunch of shows - that most programs don't buy exclusive content. They think making a content deal is about buying sets of licensed content.

Seems to me that most programs are really cheap mother fuckers where it counts the most. If these guys aren't investing the heaviest in what they're selling, how do they expect to really be a player in the biz?

That was a wake-up call to me, honestly. I was a little naive to think I'd be welcomed with open arms, offering them precious content that will monetize their traffic. I guess I was naive to think program owners understood the value of such a service.

darksoul

its a catch22 but the reason I don't attend many shows is that there are no other webmasters to talk to and I'm really not interested in spending time with affiliate reps.

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Anthony

I'm wrapping up my show time tonight, finished the going away party, got to say good bye to those who were still there.

I got to spend some time with Chris from AVN, and I told him straight up. I've been going to AVN shows from IA2000. This show was hands down the best one I've been too for networking, making deals, and rekindling old business relationships. I'm not a Bro, I didn't get invited to 12Clicks dinner (I'm sure my invite got lost in the mail ), so take that for what it's worth.

I used to be alot like some of the people in this thread. I remember in 2002 J$tyles ranting at me for not going to shows that year and the next. My answer was I had anyone I needed to do business with were either on my cellphone or ICQ. I was wrong. New Players are shooting up every day. If you don't go to at least one major show a year, you are only doing yourself a dis service.

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baddog

I am sorry, I am not sure how it is we have never met since you are obviously attending more shows than I thought. Be sure to come up and say hello.

As far as the parties are concerned, let me assure you that they are great networking opportunities. I feel your impressions are based on what you have read rather than what you have experienced.

V_RocKs

Why does the owner of redtube or porntube need to go to an adult convention?

They already own the porn industry.

fuzebox

Was good to see you again Bro

slapass

Because they ripped off the content and now they need to figure out how to sell it.

You could break into Best buy and steal TV's and then give them away and all you would do is make a gas bill for the truck.

MikeSmoke

Who are you kidding, Anthony - you've ALWAYS been a bro --- that's just not what they called it back then

Glad you had a good show

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icq: 541-739-92

Gianna_CECash

It’s a shame that you don’t want to talk to reps, because reps like me have the knowledge and the know how…. I am interested in creating relationships with my webmasters, that way I can better assist you with the things that you need to help you grow

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xmas13

You only need a rep when you got a problem.

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nikad

Well, I have never been to one of these shows, but reading how little biz is made, and how the average webmaster is treated ( lol or not! ) really doesn´t make me wanna go either :P

Good seminars, reps that can make decisions and actually make deals, and lots of attendants ( real working webmasters ) would make them a lot more appealing.

It would be nice if sponsors cared for other things, like loyalty, years promoting them, consistent traffic, etc, referrals, etc, and invited the average webmaster, just so it would be a mix of small, medium and biggies ;)

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RedShoe

Shit.. did I just get owned by Baddog?

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NETbilling

We do a tremendous amount of business at so many of the shows. We setup meetings and dinners ahead of time which is key. Having a booth or cabana is mainly for branding and to give current clients a place to easily find us. We also put events together like the golf outings and the Porn Poker Tour whcih has become a staple event at so many shows.

Sure, every show is not spectacular but so many of them are . The Internext show that ended yesterday is no exception. Great job done by AVN.

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Odie

so everyone here is bitching and moaning about loud parties and no invites but how come when a sponsor creates a lax event with good atmosphere, everyone complains that there are no girls to look at???

I have organized and set 2 major parties for Python besides the GFY XMAS, open invite, food, open bar great venues, and by midnight everyone is gone to the stripclub and has complained about no girls but they never bothered to look around the room to network....sponsors can't win.

Having been a sales rep for 5 years, I found that I made most of my best contacts thru ICQ, then meeting at a show in the lobby or an after party in someone's suite(where I could hear myself speak).

OR, looking for people on the boards and setting up specific meetings or dinners also is another great tactic.

Creating small gatherings is by far the best way to maximize potential. I do dinners w/ diff ppl all the time to create some intimacy and solidify relationships that were started online.

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lbc213

Too many big egos. I am happy being a lowly affiliate and don't really see the point in spending the money to go and get drunk when I can do that at home.

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camchoice

great thread.. and i understand why people won't go anymore.. i'm stuck in between webmaster/program owner so i can offer something for both.. the beginning was hard because it's a closed group but after a few shows i met the right people who care about you in person.

i have to agree the hotels are very expensive.. for me a simple hotel is enough as long as i can hang out with people and get the chance to meet new people then it's worth going for me business will be done when everybody gets back home.. before i want to promote something or someone i have to know who they are and what they are like..

take an example of the costa rica bash .. great organized.. i only have to pay for the flight. the hotel food and drinks are paid by the sponsors..
i think that will be the new way of sponsoring and organizing webmaster shows..

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Gianna_CECash

Odie pls let me know the next time you plan on doing a webmaster gathering in TO, I would love to come and meet some of the new Toronto webmasters

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Peaches

Hmmm - and to think that I was told by 12clicks that I was obviously no longer in the business because I stopped going to shows You mean there are other people who actually feel the same way I do? You must not be in the business either ;)

I didn't go in 2007, but in 2006 and this year, 2008, I was in Vegas and saw the people I wanted to see but didn't attend Internext. I see others as I travel for other business and non-business related reasons. I've met pretty much everyone I want to meet in the biz.

For the vast majority of my "career" I've been an affiliate. I went to shows to meet people and/or spend time with people I like. I was the customer - no need to kiss butt unless I wanted to ;)

Now I can see everyone I want to see w/o the madness, crowds and I hate to say, the fakeness of the shows.

XMaster

I made some good deals and met some great people but the thruth is that party are not so good anymore and ICQ is the only tool you need to make good deals nowaday.

Plus making the show always at Vegas or Miami is annoying. (what about LA, New York, San Fransisco etc...?)

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iStripper 50% revshare since 1998

You missed out on Bitcoin! Don't miss DOLZ.

Peaches

No shit!! Congrats!

Love always,

One of your friends from the Natnet Suites

MichaelP

Hummm... Beside 1 or 2 private events, most of Internext's parties were open for every registered attendees. Sunday night GFY openening perty was open to everyones.. (Thanks Joe and Eric) I remember 2 full stories of suites open to everyones Monday night + some others...



BTW : our parties at QWEBEC Expo ar all open to all registered attendees too

Zorgman

For me, because all the shows are in the USA, it's really way to far for me to go. 12,000 kilometers from sydney to vegas.

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MikeSmoke

It's OK...you can say it.....
"I can't BELIEVE IT!"...
(neither can I )

thanks hon....you *know* you're one of the people I *do* miss seeing

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Yngwie

I may have been in this industry for 10 years, but I'm still a small time webmaster so going to shows would be pointless. I'm not whale so I would get ignored. If the shows actually had things that could help/benefit the small to medium webmasters than it would be worth going to.

informative seminars based on different aspects of the industry would be a big plus, but that's not going to happen. All the deals that get made at these shows are between 2 or more big fishes and never any small to medium ones. So it's a complete waste of $ for us small to medium guys/gals.

I've never been to any shows and never will unless they actually become helpful for everyone that attends. Ya, partying is all fun, but that doesn't accomplish anything. People get drunk and make "deals" that they will never do so what the fuck is the point?

Of course, the way this business now is fuck the little guy. Not help him/her to be successful. But, if you're not in the "bro" club you're shit out of luck. Don't we help each other anymore? Then we wonder why so many people do no so legal things in order to make $.

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brandonstills

Well, I went there and here's my feedback.

REASONS FOR GOING:
1. Meet people face to face and know who they are
2. Learn what everyone else is doing and see if there are people I want to work with
3. Find out what products and services are out there that may help me out.
4. Talk to other webmasters and find out what works and doesn't work for them.

In general, there were very few "webmasters" there. Mostly program pushing programs. Wished there were more of them. I wanted to ask them what they were doing and get ideas for myself.

The free drinks and party atmosphere made it easy to network I thought. All the smoking fucking sucked though. I could only stay a few hours each day. Fucking disgusting. Wished it was smoke free. Very hard to have a good time when your throat hurts and eyes are hurting. Not to mention all my clothes smell like an ash tray now. May others said the same.

For the most part I met my objectives. It was also good to develop my networking skills since I'm mostly an introvert and not a people person.

I got a few new ideas for things I want to try as a result of the convention. Being a photographer as well as a programmer I had several people interested in hiring me as well. That made it worth it as well.

Peaches

That's just Vegas. Shows in other locations never seem to have the "OMG, I opened my suitcase when I got home and a puff of smoke actually appeared" conclusion I've learned to pack lots of sachets in my suitcases when I go to Vegas. It helps but I usually have to throw them away because even the sachets smell like smoke, lol.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

While I contract people (photo/video shooters, production assistants, make-up artists, etc) on a per project basis, I'm basically a one-person show, shooting my own exclusive content for my own sites that I operate by myself (I'm going on my ninth year in the adult biz).

Even though I am not a Sponsor or Affiliate, I still go to a handful of shows a year. I have pretty clear cut goals ahead of time, therefore I get what I want out of the shows I choose to go to - be it cutting deals, lining up talent for future projects, or whatever else.

I also attend because I do work fairly independently, and it's nice to meet and hear what others are doing. Plus, I do enjoy putting faces to the personalities I meet on the Boards (I spend 98% of my Board time on GFY).

One other big reason I go (and I know not everyone here pays taxes, hehe), but for me it's a nice tax write-off for a mini-vacation.

ADG

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Gianna_CECash

This is where CE Cash is different. CE cash is doing what no other program out there would do? We will work with you one on one and do what ever it takes to improve your bottom line! Weather you are big or small we are here to work with you...

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dready

$300 a ticket to attend.

Why not make it $50 for webmasters? More of the newbies will come, and thus the exhibitors will actually have people worthwhile to exhibit for.

Make your $$ off the exhibitors.

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ICQ: 91139591

baddog

So you aren't going because other people that aren't going said they were not worth it?

As far as being "just an affiliate" is concerned, you would be surprised what a face-to-face meeting will do.

Last week an affiliate rep told me they could not provide what I wanted. A few minutes talking at Internext and I had what I wanted.

As far as doing all your biz via ICQ, that will never work, because people have a tendency to abbreviate their thoughts when forced to write it out, whereas, when speaking the conversations can get deeper since there are no worries of cramped fingers.


Never. I am never really sure if you are looking for more work or not, so my comments may or may not apply to you.

CarolCox

Hanging out at the NatNet suite with SweetT and the boys was always fun and relaxing. Those were fun times.

carol xoxoxo

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desus

Great thread.

This is why I had my little infamous "Ghetto Playboy Illegal" Afterparty in the lobby at webmasteraccess. I must have met at least 30 people who were at Webmaster Access but had no tickets to the playboy party. So their friday night was basically sit in their hotel rooms while everyone else partied.

I met about 25 people at that little get together and ended up doing business with at least 5 of them. And all of these guys would fall into the "small, webmaster, one man shop" folder.

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LeRoy

I went and hung out with Green Guy . GFY doesn't give me love

Here's some pics anyway

http://leftysbucks.com/internext2008/index.html

As an affiliate I wouldn't bother. I would just spend the grand on hookers and blow. Knowing what goes on there. Hookers and blow would be way way better.

As a Program Owner I would be stupid not to go. my .02

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Peaches

IME, most of the big and medium sized paysite program owners don't go, they send their employees. Most of whom are not decision makers and must then go back to the office and see if the deal they just "made" is acceptable to said program owner.

Someone told me this weekend that he would make 500 deals during Internext. Maybe 2 or 3 actually went through

LeRoy

ok as a new program owner . I would be stupid not to go.

As an old program owner "hookers and blow" for sure . Let the reps go with teh Black Card.

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Barefootsies

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Should You Email Your Members?

Link1 | Link2 | Link3

Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Kelli58

How do you find them? There are a ton of noob threads on this board. Start with that. Help them out. REALLY help them and you would be surprised how amazingly loyal those people will be. Your help may not always pay off but with some it will and those are the ones that will be extremely loyal and some of them will one day have decent traffic.

The things I think the bigger companies need to focus on is spending less time on coming up with new hosted galleries or whatever and spend more time on education. Teach your noob webmasters how to be successful, REALLY provide them tips and advice.

They can then take what you've taught them to improve the quality of the site and the amount of traffic they get. They will appreciate your efforts and hopefully pay you back in kind by sending your program their new found traffic and hopefully if you helped them enough, new found 'higher quality' traffic.

About how going around the country and offering seminars in 5 or so major cities that will -- get this -- not promote your affiliate program but actually provide quality advice on how the people attending your seminars can improve the quality of their website and get more traffic. Bring with you 2 or 3 hot "booth babes" as if you were at a show and make sure they all have your company logo on their shirts but minus that one tiny promo, really really really really really focus on teaching these people something.

Now that would be money well spent. I think a company would get far more business out of those kind of things than by spending the money they do as shows like AEE. If you factor in the cost of a booth, the money for each employee to attend, the cost of models, rooms for everyone and then a party suite which in some cases can run $5,000 to $10,000 per night .... then yes .... it's just not worth it.

Anyway I've completely gotten off subject here. If you want to find webmasters that need your help a) look on this board and dig up all the posts in the last 6 months with people who ask questions like "I'm about to start my first blog and ........." and b) go through your own program and find webmasters who have signed up and have really low traffic. Go through their websites and if you see they suck, help them. Invite them to your private classes, etc.

Kelli58

But why waste your money going if it doesn't make financial sense to go? Why would you spend let's say $5,000 to earn $50? That's what doesn't make sense. I'm sorry but I disagree with you. A smart program owner would spend his or her money wisely. I would rather spend the entire AEE budget for a company trying to get one big deal with one decent webmaster, then go to Vegas, spend all the money on a booth, promo materials etc, and be sorely disappointed to see that I didn't get a return on my investment.

WiredGuy

I didn't see you in Vegas Gianna...
WG

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Odie

amen Kelli!

My first Vegas show, I was on the show floor everyday and then I spent my nights at the circlebar b/c every time I tried to leave someone else that I wanted to talk to showed up! Before I knew it, it was 6 am...damn oxygen pumping casinos! lol I attended ONE party, saw Blue Man group w/ Lightspeed, screamed my lungs out, and got to know my webmasters and fellow sales reps.

I now am a small webmaster trying to start my own stuff and am learning slowly but surely from those around me. I now have my former webmasters teaching ME things I didn't understand or know before.

Gianna, a bunch of us are doing dinner in the next couple weeks as some ppl are in town after Vegas.

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12clicks

there is a ton of sadly inaccurate info in this thread. Some from people who don't know, some from people who want to justify their poor decision of not going.
First, all of the big parties can be attended by all. The show floor is a great networking opportunity as well. This is also one of the only industries where the lowliest person in the business can speak to some of the true superstars.
at this show for example, you could have walked up to Tony Morgan, Ron Cadwell, Lars, Mojo, Brad Shaw, wired guy, etc etc.
there's not a single big guy who wouldn't spend a few minutes talking to a webmaster as long as you don't act like an ass.

It just sounds likecyou all want to be treated like kings and get invited to private events.
Bill Gates doesn't have dinner at CES with the guys from radio shack.
you have to earn your way to that table, its not a FHG

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DaddyHalbucks

I'll throw out one more reason: with the "upscaling" of the strip, Las Vegas hotel rooms are now ALOT more expensive than they used to be.

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LAJ

Yeah, i'm biased but putting focus on the webmaster, quality of seminars, and lowest possible prices is what we strive for every year for Cybernet Expo. We aren't getting rich doing it, but both the ROI and the fun is there.

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jscott

show's = too much fake people, and spam-in-person

so many ppl i've seen that think cuz they are rich they are automatically have a "cool" personality

Xrated J

where you there?

pocketkangaroo

I think you more or less explained why a lot don't go. What is in any of that for the webmaster? Sure a sponsored dinner and drink is nice, but really what am I really getting out of it? You guys asking for more traffic? If I've needed anything from you guys, I've dropped Ardy an e-mail and gotten a quick response.

Shows were more beneficial years ago when news didn't travel as fast. It was the place to go to find out who the hot new companies were, what the hot new sites would be, and what the new products we'd all need. Now you can find out all of this on the boards. Companies spend thousands to keep reps on the boards filling everyone in on exactly what they have going on. Not to mention that we haven't seen a whole lot of innovation in the industry lately. Programs seem to be recycling themselves, offering the same things, the same sites, and so on.

But ultimately, I just haven't felt it would make me more money. I'd rather take a few days and go to the Super Bowl or on a trip with friends. I promote the companies that make me the most money, not the ones that buy me dinners and drinks. The only time I've been really tempted to go was when I've been offered passes by a few companies to the Playboy Mansion. But then again, it would have been just to see the mansion, grab some pics, and head home. If I have a situation where I need to meet face to face, I'd fly out there to do so.