Joint Statement from IBill, CCBill and Epoch / Paycom - Page 5 - GoFuckYourself.com

AM Jeff · 10-02-2002, 11:00 PM

Yeah...BUT...what you may not know or most know.
When you sign up for that Merchant account and your approved, all set up.
VISA will require you to come up with a reserve amount because you are in the porn business.
I know, because I have done it.

Don't believe?
Call Card Service International.

They'll tell you.

Don't believe the agents that set you up.
They are not part of Card Service International.
Just an Independent agent.

Brown Bear · 10-02-2002, 11:06 PM

How much is the average reserve amount?

playa · 10-02-2002, 11:07 PM

Every bank has there own merchant rules,,

Card service international is just one of them

mrbling · 10-02-2002, 11:09 PM

There are NO Reserve amounts for most merchant accounts, only people with BAD credit will need to put up a reserve.

+ CARD SERVICE ( which are very bad merchants for adults)

Mitch @ netbilling can back us up along with anybody else who has their own merchant account that most of the merchants did not pay a PENNY in reserve.

Maybe a few with bad credit had to put up reserves.

Don't spread bad rumors hehe.

NETbilling · 10-02-2002, 11:11 PM

E-Randy,

Regarding your earlier post. This industry cannot survive easily without Visa and Mastercard. Visa can surely survive without the adult industry. This is their way of keeping tabs on everyone processing under them. This is the reason why they implemented the registration process to begin with a year or so ago when all 5967 merchants with their own merchant accounts were required to register.

Mitch

playa · 10-02-2002, 11:14 PM

thanks to mitch i got set up with a merchant account
and it only cost me $150 to get it all setup,,

Hooper · 10-02-2002, 11:15 PM

it's kinda fun watching one idiot after another come in here and tell the big money people why they're stupid.... has it ever crossed your mind that the big money isnt made *accidentally* by *stupid* people?

Ron, Clay & whathisface at ibill made this business huge by being intelligent and taking calculated risks.

The rules are as simple as they have ever been...

dont screw people.
disclose your prices honestly.
sell what you promise.

is it really that difficult?

[H] · 10-02-2002, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by netbilling
E-Randy,

Regarding your earlier post. This industry cannot survive easily without Visa and Mastercard. Visa can surely survive without the adult industry. This is their way of keeping tabs on everyone processing under them. This is the reason why they implemented the registration process to begin with a year or so ago when all 5967 merchants with their own merchant accounts were required to register.

Mitch

I'm going to be talking with you guys soon. I want out from under the 3rd party billers thumbs.

SunTzu · 10-02-2002, 11:17 PM

Those of you talking about your own merchant account being the golder answer...

Just remember, if your merchant acc't gets canned, you're blacklisted from ALL 3rd party billers as well now.

It sounds like merchant accounts just got a whole lot more risky to have.

NETbilling · 10-02-2002, 11:18 PM

Hi again,

Actually most banks do now require a rolling reserve. It is standard in the industry to charge 5 or 10% depending on the business type, monthy volume, credit of the person applying etc.. The bank does not want to get burned by fly by night merchants so they usually require it.

Actually we have referred many to Cardservice lately and have had pleasant experiences when going though us to Merchant hawk. We can help establish domestic and offshore accounts and now have a department dedicated to merchant account acquisition. So, if you are ready to get your own account, give us a call and we will answer all of your questions and discuss the options.

More questions... fire away ****

Thank you, Mitch Farber

mrbling · 10-02-2002, 11:19 PM

SunTzu,

The same goes for you using a 3rd party,
Why do you think you have to register your URL / Company name with the IPSP ?

If you have a bad chargeback ratio with a 3rd party billing, YOU ARE BLACKLISTED as well.

It goes both ways.. Did you think they would let you run around using all the 3rd parties after being canceled by one?

Thats insanity.

NETbilling · 10-02-2002, 11:21 PM

SunTzu,

And if you get canned by your 3rd party processor for excessive chargebacks. It goes both way, don't forget.

Mitch

Brown Bear · 10-02-2002, 11:21 PM

I just put netbilling.com in my "favorites" on my browser.

I hope you guys can handle the rush of new clients in the next few months.

[H] · 10-02-2002, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hooper
it's kinda fun watching one idiot after another come in here and tell the big money people why they're stupid.... has it ever crossed your mind that the big money isnt made *accidentally* by *stupid* people?

it's also kinda fun watching the *big money people* (3rd party billers) come in and tell all their clients why they are stupid and don't deserve to do business.

People are already seeking alternative solutions, be it Globill or a direct merchant account or some other solution. Sure there are risks. But then, as you said, big money isn't made *accidentally* or without risks. And right now, I'd rather take some informed risks than simply bend over and just take it.

mrbling · 10-02-2002, 11:22 PM

mitch,

stop reading my mind

good info on the reserves, I didn't know that, thanks for updating us, I just got a merchant account and did not require a reserve, but I only requested around undr $100k in monthly revenue.

NETbilling · 10-02-2002, 11:54 PM

Brown Bear,

We are ready for you. You are going to love it here.
Once you are past the initial B.S. of the merchant account paperwork and the account is setup, we make it a very pleasant experience for you.

mrbling,

You were lucky to have no reserve. Is it a high-risk account? What bank? Who is your processor/gateway?
I think you were readng my mind as well.

Mitch

Brown Bear · 10-02-2002, 11:57 PM

Do banks usually take a percentage reserve? like 10% or do they ask for a flat reserve?

and how much is a typical reserve amount?

Pornkings · 10-03-2002, 01:30 AM

It comes down to customer support find a 3rd party processor who can handle your customer support and keep your credits and chargebacks down.

Join differant sites using each processor and see how easy they credit or charge you back. If there customer support is lacking move on to the next.

Do your own research

kmanrox · 10-03-2002, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SextrafficPete
BVF,

shaw knows what he is doing...

he has run paysites for like 5+ years now, and runs one of the leading content companies...

so you know, someone who has built that much, is not a corporate amateur

his personality is not liked by some, but hey, who cares if you don't get along with him, your not his boyfriend, it's business.

look at the class off people he hires, they are even worse than him...

BJ · 10-03-2002, 03:32 AM

netbilling did not return my phonecall earlier today, and I just wanted info on FedEx API integration...HAM!

derick · 10-03-2002, 04:22 AM

CCBill?s Answers to FAQ?s: IPSP ? Visa Compliancy

http://64.38.213.196/

What does VISA USA mean when they state that an IPSP can only register Sponsored Merchants in the Country where the Sponsored Merchant has a presence?

Under the new VISA USA regulations, an IPSP will only be permitted to register Sponsored Merchants for processing if the Sponsored Merchant has their corporation based in the same Country as the IPSP?s Acquiring Bank for VISA transactions. i.e. CCBill currently has a banking relationship with an acquirer for VISA USA, and thus can handle high risk processing for any Sponsored Merchant based in the US.

The Other Steve · 10-03-2002, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Petr
KK, the only problem with the location is that it's really hard to do all the paperwork required to open a US company on such a short notice... hm...

That is our problem as well - and we're not running around crying about it - as soon as we read the first thread we started looking at our options and getting a presence set up in the US in such a short time is impossible for us.

It seems that the billing companies who knew about this months ago should have been preparing their customers for this jolt - not springing it on us at the last minute when many overseas webmasters are left with the only option of moving to another billing company or getting locked out of the system all together.

Interestingly enough, we have still not seen any form of official announcement from our billing company - we had to approach them to see if it was for real or not.

Not a good way to treat your customers - or am I outdated in my thinking here?

Tipsy · 10-03-2002, 05:06 AM

There's an awful lot of non-US based people who couldn't give a flying fuck about the $750 - it's fairly small change. Far more of a problem is having to setup a US company, learn, pay and comply to US tax and business laws and hire a US accountant that you may never meet in real life. Seems Globill are the only alternative to that but then I've used them from the start so no worries yet.

Interesting though how the companies who have most to lose from a switch to Globill are stating that this is a worldwide thing while Globill themselves only see it as a US processing problem...

PSWEileen · 10-03-2002, 05:25 AM

I normally do not post under my work ID, but this time I will! The new regulations from VISA SUCK the big one! They have been adding regulation after regualtion to make it harder for consumers to use their "visa" cards if the purchase is in anyway related to the porn industry. It would not surprise me if I tried to purchase a dildo from an adult store and the card was denied on the basis of the product I was trying to purchase. I like the idea of the adult industry forming their own credit card!!! Maybe I should mention that to our owner ...

Well, back to work...as you can imagine we are getting slammed right now.

Petr · 10-03-2002, 05:26 AM

Tipsy, switching to Glo-Bill is not alternative because you can't transfer your subscribers from one processing company to another (if you use the 3rd party billing).

So it basically looks that for all non-US based webmasters it's either "to setup a US company, learn, pay and comply to US tax and business laws and hire a US accountant" in one week or to kiss VISA goodbye.

Brujah · 10-03-2002, 05:41 AM

*Conspiracy Theory*
All the offshore tax evaders got the ball rolling on this, and the US Govt pressuring VISA to deal with them ? Scamming fuckers fucking it all up for the legit businessmen. And of course; goths, aliens and the illuminati are somehow involved. Its early, haven't thought it out that far yet.

Nysus · 10-03-2002, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BradShaw
I am all for the paysite business getting harder to get into. I am only disappointed the fee was not more like $5000.

Paysites should be left up to the professionals with experience. Free site and traffic guys should stick with that, they will probably make more $ long term.

The gold rush is over, stop whining. Leave paysite biz up to the pros.

How do you suppose professionals with experience get made? You'd probably be shit nowhere if you had $5000 added cost to setting up a paysite. You'd probably be too deterred to even try, and you'd be doing some other venture if you're an entrepreneur. You wouldn't ever know how much money a paysite could run, because you'd never have the money. Unless you had a financial backer you wouldn't be able to do so, and you wouldn't get a financial backer with no experience. It's like shooting yourself in the foot with the opinion you have.

Cheers,
Matt

Nysus · 10-03-2002, 06:11 AM

Hey mrbling, mind hitting me up on icq or email? I like keeping in contact with intelligent people.

ICQ 129060301 or email [email protected]

Oh, netbilling, if you could also hit me up. Thanks.

Cheers,
Matt

Tipsy · 10-03-2002, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Petr
Tipsy, switching to Glo-Bill is not alternative because you can't transfer your subscribers from one processing company to another (if you use the 3rd party billing).

So it basically looks that for all non-US based webmasters it's either "to setup a US company, learn, pay and comply to US tax and business laws and hire a US accountant" in one week or to kiss VISA goodbye.

I agree entirely. As I say I was lucky enough to have gone with Globill from the beginning. The point I was trying to make was simply that so many posts in this thread keep bringing up the $750 thing. For a VERY large percentage of people running sites this is not the biggest problem or expense by a very long way.

Paul Markham · 10-03-2002, 06:40 AM

Quote:

IPSP?s can only register Sponsored Merchants in the country where the Sponsored Merchant has a presence.

I think this means if you are Russian *for instnace* you have to have a Russian CC processor.

Quote:

You might want to contact GloBill. They have been making some changes lately, and it might be to avoid some of this shit.

And maybe it's time for the industry to start its own credit card operation.

Good point but how long before they follow, this is coming from Visa/MC

Quote:

Overall this looks like good news. I hope it helps to limit the people who should not be running paysites in the first place by charging this fee. If you can not afford the $750, you should go find another line of work.

Good point but tomorrows big site is todays small site. That is the way of business and all markets need it. I think Brad Shaw just wants to make it harder for anyone to get in and tkae his business by being better.

AM Jeff · 10-03-2002, 07:19 AM

The reason banls are asking for a rolling reserve is because, we sell porn on the net.

Now, if we actually had a storefront with goods to sell.
That'd be another story.

But when it comes to services where you cannot get a signed reciept. Most banks do require that.
Banks KNOW that services sold on the internet are high risk. Therefor they normally ask for a reserve.
If they don't at first. Expect a reserve amount in a few months.
That means also locking up some of your money owed to you for a peroid of 6 months or so..to protect themselves.

Thanks Mitch for following up on that. I didn't add that part to my post t the top of the page.

In this business.
There are a few hiddin cost. Not just the setup fee involved.
Yes, having your own merchant account does have its advantages. But also has its disadvantages too.
You get over that 2.5 %, you'll get spanked.
In this business, if your not careful and very through in what you do and your customer service.
You'll get spanked.

Yeah Hooper, I agree with you.
I've seen some sites promise the moon and when you get on their membership site. They maybe have 1,000 pics. If that.
Industry as a whole needs to be cleaned up.

ColKurtz · 10-03-2002, 09:04 AM

I think a lot of people are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

On one hand there "needs to be such barriers to entry". Do any large program owners actually fear some newbie that starts a partnership program? There is no reason to. They arent going to be able to attract a large amount of webmasters to their program.

The little guys aren't using the smoke and mirrors tactics. Its the big guys with their unethical bullshit(stealing) that has caused there to be the regulation that is upcoming.

It is the three processors who made this glourious announcment that allowed that bullshit to continue under their watch as they processed for anything and anyone under the sun to make a buck.

Now, me, with my little niche paysite that dosent use any bullshit tactics and gets like 2 chargebacks a month is supposed to blindly pay 750 out of my pocket for someone elses fuckups?

Sorry, but that ain't happening. Its not that I dont have the money either. I don't believe in blindly giving money away. That is stupid business. A fool and his money is easily parted.

This is no "barrier to entry". It is fraud.

rdunn404 · 10-03-2002, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ColKurtz
I think a lot of people are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

On one hand there "needs to be such barriers to entry". Do any large program owners actually fear some newbie that starts a partnership program? There is no reason to. They arent going to be able to attract a large amount of webmasters to their program.

The little guys aren't using the smoke and mirrors tactics. Its the big guys with their unethical bullshit(stealing) that has caused there to be the regulation that is upcoming.

It is the three processors who made this glourious announcment that allowed that bullshit to continue under their watch as they processed for anything and anyone under the sun to make a buck.

Now, me, with my little niche paysite that dosent use any bullshit tactics and gets like 2 chargebacks a month is supposed to blindly pay 750 out of my pocket for someone elses fuckups?

Sorry, but that ain't happening. Its not that I dont have the money either. I don't believe in blindly giving money away. That is stupid business. A fool and his money is easily parted.

This is no "barrier to entry". It is fraud.

Power to the people!! *raises fist*

E-Randy · 10-03-2002, 01:05 PM

VISA and MC are only making it worse for themselves. I understand they have to protect their business but the problem is that they are doing at our expense. There are many alternative methods they can use to filter out the bad companies but they choose to take this path for a reason, a reason that is probably unknown to any of us. I believe that alternative payment methods are going to reduce their overall market share in online payments and they are aware of this. Look to ATM billing to become a more widely accepted form of payment. It doesn't require a major card company, lower fees and most importantly a pin code to verify the user to prevent the fraud.

BTW, Netbilling is a good company and I've never heard Mitch bad mouth anyone on the boards. Which is more than I can say for some 3rd party billers that hold your whole fucking month of processing and don't even tell you that you're going to get it back starting in 3 months. Then it will be broken down into small payments over a 12 month period in the form of an IOU. Now that's FUCKED up. I don't understand the nerve of some companies that conduct business like this and then post on the board and tell their existing clients to stay with them or they'll never work with them again. That's BULLSHIT!

If you can do it and you're not already on TMF, go to NetBilling and get your own account. Just make sure you keep up that customer service or you're fucked.

49thParallel · 10-03-2002, 01:17 PM

It really comes down to one thing...if the adult industry hadn't made it such a habit of completely screwing over the consumer..then this wouldn't be happening...

Oh, but wait, none of you screw the consumer, do you....Oh well, if the adult business fails you...you can always move on to telephone fraud...you know, telling the consumer on the telephone that they have won a free knife set...but you will need their credit card number for age verification...oh...didn't you read the small print...you had to return the knife set within 3 days...or else you would get charged for the entire set...plus 3 days really isn't accurate...you really needed to call 24 hours before the 3 days was up....Thanks for dealing with us...

You've made your bed...now you get to sleep in it...

flyingco · 10-03-2002, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by E-Randy
VISA and MC are only making it worse for themselves. I understand they have to protect their business but the problem is that they are doing at our expense. There are many alternative methods they can use to filter out the bad companies but they choose to take this path for a reason, a reason that is probably unknown to any of us. I believe that alternative payment methods are going to reduce their overall market share in online payments and they are aware of this. Look to ATM billing to become a more widely accepted form of payment. It doesn't require a major card company, lower fees and most importantly a pin code to verify the user to prevent the fraud.

BTW, Netbilling is a good company and I've never heard Mitch bad mouth anyone on the boards. Which is more than I can say for some 3rd party billers that hold your whole fucking month of processing and don't even tell you that you're going to get it back starting in 3 months. Then it will be broken down into small payments over a 12 month period in the form of an IOU. Now that's FUCKED up. I don't understand the nerve of some companies that conduct business like this and then post on the board and tell their existing clients to stay with them or they'll never work with them again. That's BULLSHIT!

If you can do it and you're not already on TMF, go to NetBilling and get your own account. Just make sure you keep up that customer service or you're fucked.

I know who you are talking about. I may not have been in the industry then but word gets around the third party processing industry.

The rumours was that then they were having FINANCIAL PROBLEMS!!!! So much for credibility. I wonder if they were overspending their CLIENTS MONEY or they had problems with their acquiring bank and got shut down temp.

Anyway, right now what I THink IS Their CEO is an idiot for mouthing things off like this. I WILL NEVER EVER USE THEM for jack shit.

-Nato

NETbilling · 10-03-2002, 02:00 PM

PureMeds,

We always take and return calls same day. Did you leave a voicemail. If you call me directly we can speak right now. I just ICQed you as well.

E-Randy,

Thanks for the kind words.

AMJeff,

We also handle customer service as well.

Thank you, Mitch Farber

NETbilling · 10-03-2002, 02:00 PM

Puremeds,

Nice talking to you. Let me know if you need any help with the automation.

Mitch

E-Randy · 10-03-2002, 02:08 PM

It's funny how we all keep attacking VISA and MC. The two times I almost got put out of business a while back had to do with certain 3rd party processors not paying because they didn't do their shit right! Now they act all righteous. Thanks to my sound financial position then, I was able to survive. I wonder how many people they actually did put out of business because of their careless mistakes. When a company OWNS your CUSTOMERS, they own YOU. Get your own merchant account, and you own your customers. Unless you don't use recurring billing, then you don't have to give a flying fuck!

Kimmykim · 10-03-2002, 03:36 PM

LOL getting a merchant account for a few thousand a month is simple, my gramma could do it and she hasn't worked in years.

Of course if she wanted to large volume high risk adult transactions she'd have to put up the reserve, work around the caps (or else she'd be done taking transactions midmonth if she started growing and didnt have or want to put up more reserve).

Of course if my gramma did 100 sales a day (of course my gramma would, she's a sharp old lady) and got 1 chargeback per day (which she probably would within 3 months due to the law of averages alone) she'd be over the allowable trans count limit and then she'd be on monitoring, paying her fines, and watching her profits go down the drain.

But hey, my gramma's retired. She hopes that everyone here makes a wise choice that is best for their business. If not, she says she'll come outta retirement when the whole thing busts apart and then she'll be the one with the bling bling...

-=HOAX=- · 10-03-2002, 03:54 PM

uhm.....rand......can I have the dvd player?

Kimmykim · 10-03-2002, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by -=HOAX=-
uhm.....rand......can I have the dvd player?

He is trying hard for one ;)

jimmyf · 10-03-2002, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by [Labret]

Thats fucking rich. You need to be popped in the mouth.

Screw a shitload of people and swagger back in a couple years later like you are the fucking saviors.

Suck my cock. Please.

Go get'm..

jimmyf · 10-03-2002, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cherrylula
So I wonder who exactly these people will be at VISA, who get to view the lists of urls, sex site owners and their personal info.

I bet they can't wait. What a butt reaming this is. I can't wait to hear the horror stories when that info gets loose.

You are so right.... You just do not know how RIGHT you are...and that's my

jimmyf · 10-03-2002, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyingco

I know who you are talking about. I may not have been in the industry then but word gets around the third party processing industry.

The rumours was that then they were having FINANCIAL PROBLEMS!!!! So much for credibility. I wonder if they were overspending their CLIENTS MONEY or they had problems with their acquiring bank and got shut down temp.

Anyway, right now what I THink IS Their CEO is an idiot for mouthing things off like this. I WILL NEVER EVER USE THEM for jack shit.

-Nato

Now am not 100% sure but I think it was... they went over to England got fixed up with some bank...and then the bank held the funds on them for like 6 months or something like this... but you are 100% right...about doing business with his company... after he has let his ass over load his mouth.. many many times... some of these people... have head up ass so god dam far.....

Ipulse_Jeff · 10-03-2002, 04:47 PM

So, Visa is charging $500 up front, $350 per year. Ibill, CCbill, and Epoch are charging $750 up front and $500 per year.

I appreciate the honesty about where the balance goes (bank and processors), though I bet a majority is profit for Ibill, CCbill, and Epoch.. please correct me if I'm wrong.

Isn't that a little like price-fixing? None of the three is willing to absorb the administrative cost for a competitive edge by passing Visa's fees straight through? They'd rather all get their little extra money and take competition out of this tough situation... as far as I know that is against the law.

In the big picture, this is not a big deal of course, but just wanted to point this out and hopefully get feedback from one of the three.

Damian_Maxcash · 10-03-2002, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrbling

KK,

that statement is wrong, a merchant account can be obtained for under $250-300.

Which is much less then $750.

Not to mention

a) with a merchant account your percentages are only 3% & SETUP FEE is only $300

IMHO, the 3rd party BUSINESS is dead, there is no reason to use 3rd parties anymore.

The usual reasons were:

a) $0 setup (for small sites)
b) Foreign business who can't obtain merchant accounts
c) Customer support ?

Now, both perks are gone.

EPOCH, CCBILL, IBILL:

You guys forgot to tell us webmasters that there is no reason to process with you guys anymore other then customer service.

You can get everything and more with a merchant account for less then $300 and only 3% instead of 15%

I'm no way affiliated but heres a few sites you guys can visit:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...chant+accounts
Or call netbilling.com

Most of them have adult merchant accounts and the percentage is only 3-4% and setup fee is ONLY $300.

#########
The real reason of these new policies were not to hurt the adult industry, but to KILL the 3rd party business. They do not want any 3rd parties in between. The only business 3rd parties are going to get now is OLD business who do not want to change.

The law has been laid down.

5 long pages of analysis by pro webmasters and this is the only person that has actually grasped the situation as far as I can see.

Visa has seen millions of merchant fee $'s go down the drain with 3rd party proccessers.

My only real concern is that it dosnt take a giant leap to say that AVS are doing the same thing, how will visa tackle them?

bikinihouse · 10-03-2002, 08:49 PM

In my opinion... good for the big guys.. and shitty for the small guys.

xcellant · 10-03-2002, 09:07 PM

Here is a thought, we could close all of our sites now, and stick visa with all the chargebacks and put them out of business first. In reality, if you can't play with the big dogs get off of the pourch. There is always Pay Pal as an option too.

A.Martin · 10-03-2002, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Petr
Tipsy, switching to Glo-Bill is not alternative because you can't transfer your subscribers from one processing company to another (if you use the 3rd party billing).

So it basically looks that for all non-US based webmasters it's either "to setup a US company, learn, pay and comply to US tax and business laws and hire a US accountant" in one week or to kiss VISA goodbye.

Hi Petr,

Actually Glo-Bill has a program to make it easy for users to migrate to our billing sysem from another system. While we cannot take the credit card database from another 3rd party biller (that would be illegal), we have an automated system that emails users just before they expire on the "old processor" and make it easy for them to opt in for continued rebilling by simply entering their credit card number.

We have used this program to great success for webmasters coming to us from other billing companies. Granted, the conversion is not 100%. Some users do drop out. But we have seen conversions as high as 90%, depending on the quality of the site. The better the website, the greater the conversion ratio.

Interested webmasters are welcome to call or email my sales staff about the program.

10-02-2002, 11:06 PM	#202
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	How much is the average reserve amount? __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-02-2002, 11:09 PM	#204
mrbling Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 365	There are NO Reserve amounts for most merchant accounts, only people with BAD credit will need to put up a reserve. + CARD SERVICE ( which are very bad merchants for adults) Mitch @ netbilling can back us up along with anybody else who has their own merchant account that most of the merchants did not pay a PENNY in reserve. Maybe a few with bad credit had to put up reserves. Don't spread bad rumors hehe. __________________ millionare by 18 , beat that hOES

10-02-2002, 11:11 PM	#205
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,580	E-Randy, Regarding your earlier post. This industry cannot survive easily without Visa and Mastercard. Visa can surely survive without the adult industry. This is their way of keeping tabs on everyone processing under them. This is the reason why they implemented the registration process to begin with a year or so ago when all 5967 merchants with their own merchant accounts were required to register. Mitch __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

10-02-2002, 11:15 PM	#207
Hooper Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: A Free America Posts: 2,210	it's kinda fun watching one idiot after another come in here and tell the big money people why they're stupid.... has it ever crossed your mind that the big money isnt made accidentally by stupid people? Ron, Clay & whathisface at ibill made this business huge by being intelligent and taking calculated risks. The rules are as simple as they have ever been... dont screw people. disclose your prices honestly. sell what you promise. is it really that difficult? __________________ <a href="http://www.adultplatinum.com/"><img src="http://www.adult.com/wmbanners/10dcash-468x60.gif"></a>

10-02-2002, 11:18 PM	#210
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,580	Hi again, Actually most banks do now require a rolling reserve. It is standard in the industry to charge 5 or 10% depending on the business type, monthy volume, credit of the person applying etc.. The bank does not want to get burned by fly by night merchants so they usually require it. Actually we have referred many to Cardservice lately and have had pleasant experiences when going though us to Merchant hawk. We can help establish domestic and offshore accounts and now have a department dedicated to merchant account acquisition. So, if you are ready to get your own account, give us a call and we will answer all of your questions and discuss the options. More questions... fire away ** Thank you, Mitch Farber __________________ Mitch Farber** CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

10-02-2002, 11:00 PM	#201
AM Jeff Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The House Of Rage Posts: 1,320	Yeah...BUT...what you may not know or most know. When you sign up for that Merchant account and your approved, all set up. VISA will require you to come up with a reserve amount because you are in the porn business. I know, because I have done it. Don't believe? Call Card Service International. They'll tell you. Don't believe the agents that set you up. They are not part of Card Service International. Just an Independent agent.

10-02-2002, 11:07 PM	#203
playa Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: atlanta, GA Posts: 6,432	Every bank has there own merchant rules,, Card service international is just one of them

10-02-2002, 11:14 PM	#206
playa Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: atlanta, GA Posts: 6,432	thanks to mitch i got set up with a merchant account and it only cost me $150 to get it all setup,,

10-02-2002, 11:17 PM	#209
SunTzu Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: the box Posts: 456	Those of you talking about your own merchant account being the golder answer... Just remember, if your merchant acc't gets canned, you're blacklisted from ALL 3rd party billers as well now. It sounds like merchant accounts just got a whole lot more risky to have.

10-02-2002, 11:19 PM	#211
mrbling Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 365	SunTzu, The same goes for you using a 3rd party, Why do you think you have to register your URL / Company name with the IPSP ? If you have a bad chargeback ratio with a 3rd party billing, YOU ARE BLACKLISTED as well. It goes both ways.. Did you think they would let you run around using all the 3rd parties after being canceled by one? Thats insanity. __________________ millionare by 18 , beat that hOES

10-02-2002, 11:21 PM	#212
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,580	SunTzu, And if you get canned by your 3rd party processor for excessive chargebacks. It goes both way, don't forget. Mitch __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

10-02-2002, 11:21 PM	#213
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	I just put netbilling.com in my "favorites" on my browser. I hope you guys can handle the rush of new clients in the next few months. __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-02-2002, 11:22 PM	#215
mrbling Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 365	mitch, stop reading my mind good info on the reserves, I didn't know that, thanks for updating us, I just got a merchant account and did not require a reserve, but I only requested around undr $100k in monthly revenue. __________________ millionare by 18 , beat that hOES

10-02-2002, 11:54 PM	#216
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,580	Brown Bear, We are ready for you. You are going to love it here. Once you are past the initial B.S. of the merchant account paperwork and the account is setup, we make it a very pleasant experience for you. mrbling, You were lucky to have no reserve. Is it a high-risk account? What bank? Who is your processor/gateway? I think you were readng my mind as well. Mitch __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

10-02-2002, 11:57 PM	#217
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	Do banks usually take a percentage reserve? like 10% or do they ask for a flat reserve? and how much is a typical reserve amount? __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-03-2002, 01:30 AM	#218
Pornkings Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Roger V Posts: 5,334	It comes down to customer support find a 3rd party processor who can handle your customer support and keep your credits and chargebacks down. Join differant sites using each processor and see how easy they credit or charge you back. If there customer support is lacking move on to the next. Do your own research __________________ Pornkings.com

10-03-2002, 03:32 AM	#220
BJ Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: asia Posts: 5,590	netbilling did not return my phonecall earlier today, and I just wanted info on FedEx API integration...HAM!

10-03-2002, 04:22 AM	#221
derick Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8	CCBill?s Answers to FAQ?s: IPSP ? Visa Compliancy http://64.38.213.196/ What does VISA USA mean when they state that an IPSP can only register Sponsored Merchants in the Country where the Sponsored Merchant has a presence? Under the new VISA USA regulations, an IPSP will only be permitted to register Sponsored Merchants for processing if the Sponsored Merchant has their corporation based in the same Country as the IPSP?s Acquiring Bank for VISA transactions. i.e. CCBill currently has a banking relationship with an acquirer for VISA USA, and thus can handle high risk processing for any Sponsored Merchant based in the US.

10-03-2002, 05:06 AM	#223
Tipsy Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: See sig Posts: 6,989	There's an awful lot of non-US based people who couldn't give a flying fuck about the $750 - it's fairly small change. Far more of a problem is having to setup a US company, learn, pay and comply to US tax and business laws and hire a US accountant that you may never meet in real life. Seems Globill are the only alternative to that but then I've used them from the start so no worries yet. Interesting though how the companies who have most to lose from a switch to Globill are stating that this is a worldwide thing while Globill themselves only see it as a US processing problem... __________________ Ignorance is never bliss.

10-03-2002, 05:25 AM	#224
PSWEileen Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: VA Posts: 11	I normally do not post under my work ID, but this time I will! The new regulations from VISA SUCK the big one! They have been adding regulation after regualtion to make it harder for consumers to use their "visa" cards if the purchase is in anyway related to the porn industry. It would not surprise me if I tried to purchase a dildo from an adult store and the card was denied on the basis of the product I was trying to purchase. I like the idea of the adult industry forming their own credit card!!! Maybe I should mention that to our owner ... Well, back to work...as you can imagine we are getting slammed right now.

10-03-2002, 05:26 AM	#225
Petr Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 502	Tipsy, switching to Glo-Bill is not alternative because you can't transfer your subscribers from one processing company to another (if you use the 3rd party billing). So it basically looks that for all non-US based webmasters it's either "to setup a US company, learn, pay and comply to US tax and business laws and hire a US accountant" in one week or to kiss VISA goodbye.

10-03-2002, 05:41 AM	#226
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	Conspiracy Theory All the offshore tax evaders got the ball rolling on this, and the US Govt pressuring VISA to deal with them ? Scamming fuckers fucking it all up for the legit businessmen. And of course; goths, aliens and the illuminati are somehow involved. Its early, haven't thought it out that far yet. __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

10-03-2002, 06:11 AM	#228
Nysus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,817	Hey mrbling, mind hitting me up on icq or email? I like keeping in contact with intelligent people. ICQ 129060301 or email [email protected] Oh, netbilling, if you could also hit me up. Thanks. Cheers, Matt

10-03-2002, 07:19 AM	#231
AM Jeff Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The House Of Rage Posts: 1,320	The reason banls are asking for a rolling reserve is because, we sell porn on the net. Now, if we actually had a storefront with goods to sell. That'd be another story. But when it comes to services where you cannot get a signed reciept. Most banks do require that. Banks KNOW that services sold on the internet are high risk. Therefor they normally ask for a reserve. If they don't at first. Expect a reserve amount in a few months. That means also locking up some of your money owed to you for a peroid of 6 months or so..to protect themselves. Thanks Mitch for following up on that. I didn't add that part to my post t the top of the page. In this business. There are a few hiddin cost. Not just the setup fee involved. Yes, having your own merchant account does have its advantages. But also has its disadvantages too. You get over that 2.5 %, you'll get spanked. In this business, if your not careful and very through in what you do and your customer service. You'll get spanked. Yeah Hooper, I agree with you. I've seen some sites promise the moon and when you get on their membership site. They maybe have 1,000 pics. If that. Industry as a whole needs to be cleaned up.

10-03-2002, 09:04 AM	#232
ColKurtz So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cambodia Posts: 596	I think a lot of people are talking out of both sides of their mouths. On one hand there "needs to be such barriers to entry". Do any large program owners actually fear some newbie that starts a partnership program? There is no reason to. They arent going to be able to attract a large amount of webmasters to their program. The little guys aren't using the smoke and mirrors tactics. Its the big guys with their unethical bullshit(stealing) that has caused there to be the regulation that is upcoming. It is the three processors who made this glourious announcment that allowed that bullshit to continue under their watch as they processed for anything and anyone under the sun to make a buck. Now, me, with my little niche paysite that dosent use any bullshit tactics and gets like 2 chargebacks a month is supposed to blindly pay 750 out of my pocket for someone elses fuckups? Sorry, but that ain't happening. Its not that I dont have the money either. I don't believe in blindly giving money away. That is stupid business. A fool and his money is easily parted. This is no "barrier to entry". It is fraud.

10-03-2002, 01:05 PM	#234
E-Randy Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 176	VISA and MC are only making it worse for themselves. I understand they have to protect their business but the problem is that they are doing at our expense. There are many alternative methods they can use to filter out the bad companies but they choose to take this path for a reason, a reason that is probably unknown to any of us. I believe that alternative payment methods are going to reduce their overall market share in online payments and they are aware of this. Look to ATM billing to become a more widely accepted form of payment. It doesn't require a major card company, lower fees and most importantly a pin code to verify the user to prevent the fraud. BTW, Netbilling is a good company and I've never heard Mitch bad mouth anyone on the boards. Which is more than I can say for some 3rd party billers that hold your whole fucking month of processing and don't even tell you that you're going to get it back starting in 3 months. Then it will be broken down into small payments over a 12 month period in the form of an IOU. Now that's FUCKED up. I don't understand the nerve of some companies that conduct business like this and then post on the board and tell their existing clients to stay with them or they'll never work with them again. That's BULLSHIT! If you can do it and you're not already on TMF, go to NetBilling and get your own account. Just make sure you keep up that customer service or you're fucked. __________________ ElectraContent.com 31 KICK ASS plugin products for $399! Massive Rods, College Girls, Panties, Lesbians, Toys and dildos, Dirty Blondes, Petite, Interracial, Sexy Housewives........

10-03-2002, 01:17 PM	#235
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	It really comes down to one thing...if the adult industry hadn't made it such a habit of completely screwing over the consumer..then this wouldn't be happening... Oh, but wait, none of you screw the consumer, do you....Oh well, if the adult business fails you...you can always move on to telephone fraud...you know, telling the consumer on the telephone that they have won a free knife set...but you will need their credit card number for age verification...oh...didn't you read the small print...you had to return the knife set within 3 days...or else you would get charged for the entire set...plus 3 days really isn't accurate...you really needed to call 24 hours before the 3 days was up....Thanks for dealing with us... You've made your bed...now you get to sleep in it...

10-03-2002, 02:00 PM	#237
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,580	PureMeds, We always take and return calls same day. Did you leave a voicemail. If you call me directly we can speak right now. I just ICQed you as well. E-Randy, Thanks for the kind words. AMJeff, We also handle customer service as well. Thank you, Mitch Farber __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

10-03-2002, 02:00 PM	#238
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,580	Puremeds, Nice talking to you. Let me know if you need any help with the automation. Mitch __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

10-03-2002, 02:08 PM	#239
E-Randy Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 176	It's funny how we all keep attacking VISA and MC. The two times I almost got put out of business a while back had to do with certain 3rd party processors not paying because they didn't do their shit right! Now they act all righteous. Thanks to my sound financial position then, I was able to survive. I wonder how many people they actually did put out of business because of their careless mistakes. When a company OWNS your CUSTOMERS, they own YOU. Get your own merchant account, and you own your customers. Unless you don't use recurring billing, then you don't have to give a flying fuck! __________________ ElectraContent.com 31 KICK ASS plugin products for $399! Massive Rods, College Girls, Panties, Lesbians, Toys and dildos, Dirty Blondes, Petite, Interracial, Sexy Housewives........

10-03-2002, 03:36 PM	#240
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	LOL getting a merchant account for a few thousand a month is simple, my gramma could do it and she hasn't worked in years. Of course if she wanted to large volume high risk adult transactions she'd have to put up the reserve, work around the caps (or else she'd be done taking transactions midmonth if she started growing and didnt have or want to put up more reserve). Of course if my gramma did 100 sales a day (of course my gramma would, she's a sharp old lady) and got 1 chargeback per day (which she probably would within 3 months due to the law of averages alone) she'd be over the allowable trans count limit and then she'd be on monitoring, paying her fines, and watching her profits go down the drain. But hey, my gramma's retired. She hopes that everyone here makes a wise choice that is best for their business. If not, she says she'll come outta retirement when the whole thing busts apart and then she'll be the one with the bling bling...

10-03-2002, 03:54 PM	#241
-=HOAX=- Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: CrackYaMental Posts: 4,365	uhm.....rand......can I have the dvd player? __________________ Insert Value Here.

10-03-2002, 04:47 PM	#246
Ipulse_Jeff Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1	So, Visa is charging $500 up front, $350 per year. Ibill, CCbill, and Epoch are charging $750 up front and $500 per year. I appreciate the honesty about where the balance goes (bank and processors), though I bet a majority is profit for Ibill, CCbill, and Epoch.. please correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't that a little like price-fixing? None of the three is willing to absorb the administrative cost for a competitive edge by passing Visa's fees straight through? They'd rather all get their little extra money and take competition out of this tough situation... as far as I know that is against the law. In the big picture, this is not a big deal of course, but just wanted to point this out and hopefully get feedback from one of the three. __________________ ------------------- AWGTrade - Free C-coded traffic management system http://www.awgtrade.com

10-03-2002, 08:49 PM	#248
bikinihouse Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 843	In my opinion... good for the big guys.. and shitty for the small guys.

10-03-2002, 09:07 PM	#249
xcellant Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 13	Here is a thought, we could close all of our sites now, and stick visa with all the chargebacks and put them out of business first. In reality, if you can't play with the big dogs get off of the pourch. There is always Pay Pal as an option too.