CCBill Epoch Ibill have you really thought of the consequences? - GoFuckYourself.com

SunTzu · 10-02-2002, 10:55 PM

How much percentage of CCBill/Epoch/Ibill's webmasters will be switching to Globill or not paying the Visa fees...?

Would it be more profitable to pay the $750. for your current webmasters, than risk losing 15% from tons of webmasters?

Just a thought...

mrbling · 10-02-2002, 10:59 PM

Merchant Account

$300 setup
3-4% charge
Access to credit card infos

IBILL/EPOCH/CCBILL

$750 setup
15% charge
No access to credit cards (if the business goes down, your out of luck)

Guess someone is going to lose business.

Brown Bear · 10-02-2002, 11:03 PM

The money isn't as much of a problem as the "presence" issue.

mrbling · 10-02-2002, 11:06 PM

Brown,

Thats the key

Merchant account -

Requirement: Need to be a us company

3rd party new policy-

Requirement: Need to be a us company

SO IS THERE ANY NEED FOR 3rd PARTIES ANYMORE?????

There is something RAND/RON/CHRIS not telling you guys and its 3rd parties are WORTHLESS now with the new policies.

I'm not against them or anything, but I feel like they are not telling you guys this very very important fact.

[H] · 10-02-2002, 11:26 PM

I totally agree mrbling. The 3rd party processors conveniently left that part out.

Lexxx · 10-02-2002, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrbling
Brown,

Thats the key

Merchant account -

Requirement: Need to be a us company

3rd party new policy-

Requirement: Need to be a us company

SO IS THERE ANY NEED FOR 3rd PARTIES ANYMORE?????

There is something RAND/RON/CHRIS not telling you guys and its 3rd parties are WORTHLESS now with the new policies.

I'm not against them or anything, but I feel like they are not telling you guys this very very important fact.

It's NOT that simple... and it is explained in here:

Why wouldn?t it be more cost effective for a Webmaster to go out and get their own Merchant Account instead of continuing to use a Third Party Processor IPSP like CCBill.com for their VISA transactions?

?High Risk? merchant accounts are extremely expensive, and require a large amount of maintenance and support. The initial fees associated with opening a ?High Risk? merchant account could surely meet, if not surpass VISA?s IPSP registration fee for Sponsored Merchants. In addition, owning and maintaining one?s own ?high risk? merchant account can put added financial and operational strain on an online Company by requiring them to make major investments in Customer Support, Fraud Prevention and Automated Reporting.

In addition, once a ?High Risk? merchant account is created, its owner and its operating URL?s are on VISA?s monitoring. If that same ?High Risk? account is closed there after, the account?s owner and/or its operating URL?s will no longer be afforded the future opportunity to register within the umbrella of an IPSP portfolio.

mrbling · 10-02-2002, 11:35 PM

Lexxx,

You just took a quote out from ccbill who is TRYING To sell you a 3rd party account, what are they going to say to you?

merchant accounts are cheap they are only $300, $450 cheaper then our 3rd parties?

Of course not.

Merchant accounts only cost $300 to be setup, most of them.

Do you want the other quote? Call up a merchant account provider and they will tell you the complete opposite

Lexxx · 10-02-2002, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrbling
Lexxx,

You just took a quote out from ccbill who is TRYING To sell you a 3rd party account, what are they going to say to you?

merchant accounts are cheap they are only $300, $450 cheaper then our 3rd parties?

Of course not.

Merchant accounts only cost $300 to be setup, most of them.

Do you want the other quote? Call up a merchant account provider and they will tell you the complete opposite

Makes sense...

m0rph3us · 10-02-2002, 11:54 PM

ccbill/ibill/epoch all have mass trasactions and can easily balance chargeback % so that their merchant doesn't get in shit.

If you get your own merchant.. you'll have to pay for the gateway and actual processing on top of the merchat (SSL certificates are what.. $900/year from verisign?) and other shit. if your CB ratio goes over 1% your merchant gone and banned forever from all TYPES of 3rd billing..

I know people who lost thier merchant doing a pornsites.

Also IBILL provides a nifty partner program ;)

[Labret] · 10-02-2002, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrbling
Brown,

SO IS THERE ANY NEED FOR 3rd PARTIES ANYMORE?????

Uhm I have 4 years worth the recurrings with iBill, Im not going anywhere. They could ask me to pay 10k and I would.

I dont want a merchant account, I dont need one. I dont want to hire customer service people, I dont want to buy more scripts, I dont want all my recurrings to go bye bye.

Fuck it. This only sucks for foreigners.

What does that mean for me? Less competition and hopefully some small niche gay sites will need a buyer soon. And hopefully that will be me.

[H] · 10-03-2002, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by [Labret]

Uhm I have 4 years worth the recurrings with iBill, Im not going anywhere. They could ask me to pay 10k and I would.

I dont want a merchant account, I dont need one. I dont want to hire customer service people, I dont want to buy more scripts, I dont want all my recurrings to go bye bye.

Fuck it. This only sucks for foreigners.

What does that mean for me? Less competition and hopefully some small niche gay sites will need a buyer soon. And hopefully that will be me.

why close your eyes to this and blindly pay IBill a percentage of YOUR money for nothing? Set up your own merchant and start using it as the primary. Let IBill run the recurrings until they finally die off, because no membership will recur forever, then dump IBill and you've lost nothing AND put that percentage back into your pocket instead of theirs. Might take a wile to get there, but it seems workable, no?

Jon · 10-03-2002, 12:21 AM

so all of us, new and old 3rd party customers, USA and Foreign companies will all be paying the $750 Visa fee?

I'm just a little confused i guess with all this talk of merchant accounts and fees and crap.. someone make it make sense!

[H] · 10-03-2002, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NiteChatDotTV
so all of us, new and old 3rd party customers, USA and Foreign companies will all be paying the $750 Visa fee?

I'm just a little confused i guess with all this talk of merchant accounts and fees and crap.. someone make it make sense!

Here's the basic rundown:

3rd party processors' whole sales pitch revolved around the fact that you could set up cc processing with no up front fees, and use their merchant account instead of having your own. Thus eliminating the hassle of the paperwork and of course, the money.

Now, however, in order to use these 3rd party processors, you will still have to submit this paperwork, disclosing all of your information to Visa, pay a $750 fee for each processor that you want to use, and be held just as responsible as if you actually had your own merchant account, even though you do not. PLUS, as an added bonus, you still get the privelege of paying the processor their transaction fee of 14% or 15% or whatever it may be.

Now then, the next little twist for non US companies, is that you will also need to have a United States presence. Meaning, if you do not have a US company and do not live in the US, you will need to establish that first and foremost. Which, of course, means that you will now also be paying US taxes.

So, while we're all getting fucked, you guys that have non US companies are getting fucked dry and often.

Thus, the majority of this day has been discussion ranging from anger management over this, to various alternative solutions to simply getting on your knees and taking it down the throat like a good boy.

Jizar II · 10-03-2002, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by [H]

Here's the basic rundown:

Now then, the next little twist for non US companies, is that you will also need to have a United States presence. Meaning, if you do not have a US company and do not live in the US, you will need to establish that first and foremost. Which, of course, means that you will now also be paying US taxes.

can you explain this part? I dont see why we should pay taxes anywhere else than where we live?

Will uncle sam request tax from contries outside US? I guess it depends on the double tax treaties?

[H] · 10-03-2002, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jizar II

can you explain this part? I dont see why we should pay taxes anywhere else than where we live?

Will uncle sam request tax from contries outside US? I guess it depends on the double tax treaties?

because if you have a US presence, in other words, a US corp, a corporation is its own entity, much like a human is an entity, and it pays taxes.

Jizar II · 10-03-2002, 12:45 AM

thanks that makes sense, but the contries US have a double tax treatie with will be excluded from paying tax to us right?

[H] · 10-03-2002, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jizar II
thanks that makes sense, but the contries US have a double tax treatie with will be excluded from paying tax to us right?

that I don't know. beyond my scope, sorry.

NETbilling · 10-03-2002, 12:59 AM

mrbling,

You are on the right track. However, getting the merchant account through us as well as the provessing will helo you avoid any setup fee. However, you will still need to pay the Visa/Mastercard regostration but will have your own presence with them and can even display the Mastercard logo etc...

H,

You have summed it up nicely.

Lexxx, Morpheus, & Labret,

You are partially incorrect. If you setup with a company like Netbilling using your own merchant account, you will NOT need to setup your own scripting, support staff, secure certificate or fraud scrubbing. We do it all. Basically we perform almost all of the same functions as a 3rd party processor but you will be using your own merchant account whcih we help you establish as well.

You will pay about 50% less than IPSP processing and will also have full control including access to all card data and fruad scrubbing so you can manage it as much or as little as you wish.....

Ultimate Control!

Mitch

[H] · 10-03-2002, 01:02 AM

I swear I'm calling you to get the ball rolling tomorrow Mitch.

Fletch XXX · 10-03-2002, 01:04 AM

Jizar II · 10-03-2002, 01:17 AM

I emailed you Mitch, would like to hear more about your services.

NETbilling · 10-03-2002, 01:23 AM

Hi,

I am done with emails for the night as you can imagine it has been a very busy day for us and I must leep sometime. I will be happy to answer all again in the morning. However, you will get much better explanations and a walkthrough of our system if you call our Sales Department after 9am. Speak to our sales manager Karen Campbell or Erin Vega and tell them that Mitch promised to waive the usual $199 Netbilling setup fee.

I look forward to working with all...

Mitch

Epoch · 10-03-2002, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrbling
Brown,

Thats the key

Merchant account -

Requirement: Need to be a us company

3rd party new policy-

Requirement: Need to be a us company

SO IS THERE ANY NEED FOR 3rd PARTIES ANYMORE?????

There is something RAND/RON/CHRIS not telling you guys and its 3rd parties are WORTHLESS now with the new policies.

I'm not against them or anything, but I feel like they are not telling you guys this very very important fact.

+++++++++++++

CCBill Epoch Ibill have you really thought of the consequences? Have we thought of the consequences?? Playing by the rules set fouth by the card associations that govern wether or not we can process transactions on your behealf? Or trying to skirt the system and avoid them for a limited time period...? Yes, we have considered this, have the others?

SO IS THERE ANY NEED FOR 3rd PARTIES ANYMORE?????
Only if you want to continue to process transactions in the adult space. Funny not once has someone mentioned the FACT that it cost $1000.00+ to be registered as a high risk merchant with your own merchant account, that is if you can find an acquiring bank willing to take the risk.

Anyone know what the ratios on Mastercard are for chargebacks? Better yet anyone know the initial fine if you exceed? The ratio is 1%, that is 1 ot of 100 transactions, the best part is the fine, 1st moth 25K plus $25.00 per chargeback.
Now if you are a merchant doing less than 50K per month do you really think a financial institution is going to be willing to underwrite this account?
If you can't pay the fines they do, their risk dept. does not risk 3-5K per moth in revenue for this type of volume and associated fines.

So what as to the questiom? Do you still need third party billers or are they worthless..I think you can answer this yourself without enen having to go throuh all the processes imvolved in dupporting a high risk transctions.

A lot goes on behind the scenes to see that we can continue to accept transactions on behalf of our clients.

Clay
EPOCH

Epoch · 10-03-2002, 01:32 AM

Netbilling forgot to metion the amount of the high risk registration is $1000.00 PLUS, Also if you screw up your own merchant account because you are not aware of what you are in for then you run the risk of being placed on the terminated merchant file (TMF) and if this occurs you have n o 3rd party options anymore, so good luck

The Machine · 10-03-2002, 01:36 AM

pimpdog3 · 10-03-2002, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Epoch
Netbilling forgot to metion the amount of the high risk registration is $1000.00 PLUS, Also if you screw up your own merchant account because you are not aware of what you are in for then you run the risk of being placed on the terminated merchant file (TMF) and if this occurs you have n o 3rd party options anymore, so good luck

what the hell does that matter? How is that any different from the webmaster screwing up the merchant account with a 3rd part processor vs his own merchant account? Are you saying that if we stick with 3rd party, we will get a 'pass' if we fuck up? lol

I hope you choke on your ego tonight idiot.

[H] · 10-03-2002, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Epoch
Netbilling forgot to metion the amount of the high risk registration is $1000.00 PLUS, Also if you screw up your own merchant account because you are not aware of what you are in for then you run the risk of being placed on the terminated merchant file (TMF) and if this occurs you have n o 3rd party options anymore, so good luck

the $1k isn't really a problem. I don't know why you'd even bring it up as a factor since the processors having basically been saying the $750 due in November is nothing more than the cost of doing business and if we can't afford it we should just get out. Well, $1k isn't too far down the road from $750. It was never about the initial fee. But if I have to now bear the responsibility of a merchant account, I'm damn sure going to have one to be responsible for.

And it's really not a big scary deal as some of you would have us believe. I know more than a few people who have been operating under their own merchant accounts for years without a single problem.

Carrie · 10-03-2002, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Funny not once has someone mentioned the FACT that it cost $1000.00+ to be registered as a high risk merchant with your own merchant account, that is if you can find an acquiring bank willing to take the risk.

$1000 where?
I got a full-blown merchant account for *no* upfront fee. There's a monthly gateway fee for the secure processing, and a monthly fee to belong to Authorize.net. Total: about $50 per month.
I can process credit cards, take checks online, I can display all of the logos.
www.Charge.com <-- won't even put my referral code on it.

As for incorporating, if you let some company do it for you, it's going to cost. Do it yourself - it's extremely simple and you can get all of the forms online - and it's going to cost you about $150. In my state, Virginia, that was a $75 incorporation fee, a $25 processing fee, and a $50 fee for a *local* business license. Registering as an S-company is as simple as downloading a form, filling it out, and faxing it in. Getting a FEID (federal employer identification #) is just as simple. Being an S-company allows you to pass the tax burden through to yourself and pay lower taxes than the corporation will have to pay, then having to pay taxes again when you pay yourself and report it as income.

The last I checked, processing fees were about 2.5% for Visa/MC for my merchant account. I got a great deal from Amex with a flat $5/month fee until I go over $5k/mo in Amex transactions.

The 15% plus that some of these third-party processors are charging is ridiculous.
Check out places like PayPal.com, ProPay.com (which lets you process credit cards anywhere, even in person if you've got your laptop with you, and you can control your client's CC #), and other processors. These processors haven't released a statement yet as to how this is going to affect them, but their rates are MUCH lower than the 15% the 'typical' adult processors are charging.
I'm involved in both mainstream and adult and this is just *my* experience, so be sure you read all of the fine print and check the TOS and AUP at all of these places - plus wait for a statement from each processor rather than listening to the Chicken Littles - before you make any kind of decision.
Look online at your state's official web site (not one of those "Incorporate Here!" bullshit sites) for information on incorporating. It's easy as pie and very affordable.

Bottom line - don't believe anyone's hype. Do your own research and weigh all of your options. Find out the facts for yourself - how it's going to affect YOUR business, what the fees are that YOU will pay (not what someone threatens you will pay), and whether it's more profitable to stay where you are or switch to an alternate method.

And pay close attention to the people posting on these boards from the processors. The big attitudes and the outright threats have left an extremely bad taste in my mouth - there's at least one 3rd party processor who's had someone posting tonight that will never get my business thanks to the attitude their representative has shown this evening. This isn't about bullshit and egos, this is about business. Act like professionals or hire someone who can do the talking for you.

pimpdog3 · 10-03-2002, 01:54 AM

you go girl..

awsome job!

fuck them, they suck, and they are lying about how much we need them, we dont need them for shit.

Jizar II · 10-03-2002, 01:54 AM

Carrie:

Is this a adult merchant account you are talking about in your post?

[H] · 10-03-2002, 01:54 AM

5 star post Carrie

Pornkings · 10-03-2002, 01:59 AM

Try running your own Merchant account its not that fuckin easy.
Get ready to handle credits and chargebacks to keep you under 1%.

Thats just part of it. its alot more work then you think.

[H] · 10-03-2002, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pornkings
Try running your own Merchant account its not that fuckin easy.
its alot more work then you think.

I plan to do just that come morning. It's time to end the dark oppresion from 3rd party billing.

Jizar II · 10-03-2002, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by [H]

I plan to do just that come morning. It's time to end the dark oppresion from 3rd party billing.

We would like this too, but what is that with 25k in chargeback fee Epoch posted?? that sounds insane

ControlThy · 10-03-2002, 02:09 AM

Good post Carrie.

I am wondering about the risks of having a merchant account though. We have been doing recurring transactions through third party processors for many years and until now we were not really interested in getting a merchant account.

Times change....

Epoch · 10-03-2002, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pimpdog3

what the hell does that matter? How is that any different from the webmaster screwing up the merchant account with a 3rd part processor vs his own merchant account? Are you saying that if we stick with 3rd party, we will get a 'pass' if we fuck up? lol

I hope you choke on your ego tonight idiot.

You know you are right, yoy are perfect for your own merchant account, go for it, I could care less just providing information that mrbling requested if you don't like it then don't read it, however calling me an idiot from a person who knows nothing in regards to processing is a mistake or just ignorance.. hey pimpdog3 you ever managed an adult internet merchant account?

Carrie - Thats a great rate on processing but I guaruntee it is not setup under MCC5967, if so your rate would be much higher, the fine for sumbmittting a 5967 transaction into interchange improperly coded is quite expensive. I would check on this, that is if you have any adult transactions running through this account.

Clay
EPOCH

Flow · 10-03-2002, 02:11 AM

You all want to know the solution to all of this?

Make all of your medium quality (and high quality for that matter) pay sites in to AVS Premium sites. Then you don't have to pay a penny and get the added benefit of promoting all those other AVS sites, pictures, and videos as part of the reason for getting a membership. Most of my AVS premium sites have a retention level of 3-6 months and I get an average of $17 per re-bill.

Just a thought to those that can't afford the $750 and costs of becoming an LLC.

If you want to read more on AVS and how to make them work check this out:

http://www.pornmasterz.com/articles/avsstategy.html

Enjoy,
Flow

quiet · 10-03-2002, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ControlThy

Times change....

indeed

NETbilling · 10-03-2002, 02:23 AM

Hi,

Nobody ever said it is easy having a merchant account. It is surely only for merchants who are on top of their business and want the control. As I and Clay both stated above, you will have to pay the registration fee, just as you do with the IPSPs, however, we do have e few different bank options to setup the account, both domestic and offshore. We do it everyday for new merchants. I can tell you that we get new merchants each day both new and those who are switching from other processors, and we have an extremely low attrition rate... they come and they stay.
Be sure that you do not use Autohorize.net (since they no longer take adult) or any other gateway that does not do the customer service for you (as an option), have extensive fraud scrubbing etc... and certainly do not try to do it yourself. This is why so many blew out merchant accounts back before Netbilling and other adult oriented gateway companies were around.

Of course third party processors are needed and probably do not like the new regulations any more than anyone else. However, it may no longer be the best solution for many.

Feel free to call our Sales department after 9am PST to discuss all of your questions. 888-357-8166 or 661-252-2456

Mitch

Brown Bear · 10-03-2002, 02:29 AM

Mitch, you da man!

Tipsy · 10-03-2002, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flow
You all want to know the solution to all of this?

Make all of your medium quality (and high quality for that matter) pay sites in to AVS Premium sites. Then you don't have to pay a penny and get the added benefit of promoting all those other AVS sites, pictures, and videos as part of the reason for getting a membership. Most of my AVS premium sites have a retention level of 3-6 months and I get an average of $17 per re-bill.

Just a thought to those that can't afford the $750 and costs of becoming an LLC.

If you want to read more on AVS and how to make them work check this out:

http://www.pornmasterz.com/articles/avsstategy.html

Enjoy,
Flow

That's almost funny. You really have no idea what a very large chunk of paysites have inside do you? I'm sure they'd love to give access to the very expenisve plugins that charge on a sliding scale for the amount of members you have, or access to the very high bandwidth movies etc to portentially 100 of 1000's of people who don't pay you to look at it.

What a daft idea

mrthumbs · 10-03-2002, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by netbilling
Feel free to call our Sales department after 9am PST to discuss all of your questions. 888-357-8166 or 661-252-2456

Mitch

Whahahahaha.. dont push it too far..

mrthumbs · 10-03-2002, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tipsy

That's almost funny. You really have no idea what a very large chunk of paysites have inside do you?

What a daft idea

He wrote:

"Just a thought to those that can't afford the $750 and costs of becoming an LLC. "

So he's refering to smaller people: they dont have those
'very expensive plugins' and other goodies.

However.. he's still wrong, i dont see why this problem doesnt effect AVS: i think it can turn out even worse for them

Epoch · 10-03-2002, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by netbilling
Hi,

Nobody ever said it is easy having a merchant account. It is surely only for merchants who are on top of their business and want the control. As I and Clay both stated above, you will have to pay the registration fee, just as you do with the IPSPs, however, we do have e few different bank options to setup the account, both domestic and offshore. We do it everyday for new merchants. I can tell you that we get new merchants each day both new and those who are switching from other processors, and we have an extremely low attrition rate... they come and they stay.
Be sure that you do not use Autohorize.net (since they no longer take adult) or any other gateway that does not do the customer service for you (as an option), have extensive fraud scrubbing etc... and certainly do not try to do it yourself. This is why so many blew out merchant accounts back before Netbilling and other adult oriented gateway companies were around.

Of course third party processors are needed and probably do not like the new regulations any more than anyone else. However, it may no longer be the best solution for many.

Feel free to call our Sales department after 9am PST to discuss all of your questions. 888-357-8166 or 661-252-2456

Mitch

a++++++++

I do agree with Mitch in that only those who closely monitor their own merchant accounts and know how to deal with excption files should apply for their own acccounts. However for a new site owners I do reommened 3rd party first. Third party processors are not going away,if anything their importance in payment processing especialy in the high risk space will increase..

As far as conversion of paysites to AVS models I see no reason for this or even why this has become as issue, I have to agree with mrthumbs, and ask where did this idea come from, I sure hope it did not arise fro the $750 registration fee...

Clay

Mutt · 10-03-2002, 02:51 AM

Companies like Netbilling are sitting pretty now. You get your own merchant account but they are set up with the software/hardware to do the job and help keep your merchant account 'safe' by providing the scrub.

I think most of the third party processors will do the same thing for you if you do have your own merchant account.

So for anybody who can qualify to get their own merchant account it's the best of both worlds, use a billing company's experience and software keeping chargebacks as low as possible but use your own merchant account.

You better keep a clean business though cuz you'll lose the merchant account even with good scrubbing in place and from what i'm reading once you've fucked up the merchant account you are fucked up from even returning to third party processing.

Tipsy · 10-03-2002, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrthumbs

He wrote:

"Just a thought to those that can't afford the $750 and costs of becoming an LLC. "

So he's refering to smaller people: they dont have those
'very expensive plugins' and other goodies.

However.. he's still wrong, i dont see why this problem doesnt effect AVS: i think it can turn out even worse for them

If they haven't got those goodies then they are not a 'medium quality or high quality paysite' . If you're gonna split hairs at least read and digest his post first. I've yet to see any paysite worth the fee (that's if you believe some are) that doesn't have movies and/or plugins. I wouldn't class any paysite without them as medium or high quality.

Mind you if you can't afford $750 WTF are you doing trying to run paysites *shrug*

You have a point though about AVS's. I'm wondering what effect if any it will have as it's a whole different ball park and in theory needn't affect them at all as they're more or less a glorified link list that provides a secure(ish) gateway service. The pass you buy is a pass to that AVS system not to any individual site you may join. May affect some of the free pass systems though, if as it seems this is also gonna hit free trials hard or even stop them altogether.

Pornkings · 10-03-2002, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mutt
Companies like Netbilling are sitting pretty now. You get your own merchant account but they are set up with the software/hardware to do the job and help keep your merchant account 'safe' by providing the scrub.

I think most of the third party processors will do the same thing for you if you do have your own merchant account.

So for anybody who can qualify to get their own merchant account it's the best of both worlds, use a billing company's experience and software keeping chargebacks as low as possible but use your own merchant account.

You better keep a clean business though cuz you'll lose the merchant account even with good scrubbing in place and from what i'm reading once you've fucked up the merchant account you are fucked up from even returning to third party processing.

I agree but its not as easy as people think.
also I think Clay should list all the tools they have to increase your bottom line Just having scrubbing in place to keep charbacks and cancels down is not enough to profit because they will cancel eventually within a couple months.

They have an incredable systems I think this is something everyone should take into consideration
http://www.epochsystems.com/premiumfeatures/
It will increase your bottom line about 40% if you use all there premium features.

Look at all your options they have done most of the work for you.

Epoch · 10-03-2002, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pornkings

I agree but its not as easy as people think.
also I think Clay should list all the tools they have to increase your bottom line Just having scrubbing in place to keep charbacks and cancels down is not enough to profit because they will cancel eventually within a couple months.

They have an incredable systems I think this is something everyone should take into consideration
http://www.epochsystems.com/premiumfeatures/
It will increase your bottom line about 40% if you use all there premium features.

Look at all your options they have done most of the work for you.

PK,

I am ignorant and don't know what I am doing,
amazing how these products make you 40% (40 percent) more money than other processors, I guess we just we just got lucky in creating these products.

Clay
EPOCH

Jizar II · 10-03-2002, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pornkings

http://www.epochsystems.com/premiumfeatures/
It will increase your bottom line about 40% if you use all there premium features.

Look at all your options they have done most of the work for you.

WOW thats a impressive list of add-ons!

Jizar II · 10-03-2002, 03:16 AM

Clay: Can I contact you via email?

10-02-2002, 10:55 PM	#1
SunTzu Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: the box Posts: 456	CCBill Epoch Ibill have you really thought of the consequences? How much percentage of CCBill/Epoch/Ibill's webmasters will be switching to Globill or not paying the Visa fees...? Would it be more profitable to pay the $750. for your current webmasters, than risk losing 15% from tons of webmasters? Just a thought...

10-02-2002, 10:59 PM	#2
mrbling Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 365	Merchant Account $300 setup 3-4% charge Access to credit card infos IBILL/EPOCH/CCBILL $750 setup 15% charge No access to credit cards (if the business goes down, your out of luck) Guess someone is going to lose business. __________________ millionare by 18 , beat that hOES

10-02-2002, 11:03 PM	#3
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	The money isn't as much of a problem as the "presence" issue. __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-02-2002, 11:06 PM	#4
mrbling Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 365	Brown, Thats the key Merchant account - Requirement: Need to be a us company 3rd party new policy- Requirement: Need to be a us company SO IS THERE ANY NEED FOR 3rd PARTIES ANYMORE????? There is something RAND/RON/CHRIS not telling you guys and its 3rd parties are WORTHLESS now with the new policies. I'm not against them or anything, but I feel like they are not telling you guys this very very important fact. __________________ millionare by 18 , beat that hOES

10-02-2002, 11:35 PM	#7
mrbling Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 365	Lexxx, You just took a quote out from ccbill who is TRYING To sell you a 3rd party account, what are they going to say to you? merchant accounts are cheap they are only $300, $450 cheaper then our 3rd parties? Of course not. Merchant accounts only cost $300 to be setup, most of them. Do you want the other quote? Call up a merchant account provider and they will tell you the complete opposite __________________ millionare by 18 , beat that hOES

10-02-2002, 11:26 PM	#5
[H] So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 103	I totally agree mrbling. The 3rd party processors conveniently left that part out.

10-02-2002, 11:54 PM	#9
m0rph3us Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Principality of Sealand Posts: 2,033	ccbill/ibill/epoch all have mass trasactions and can easily balance chargeback % so that their merchant doesn't get in shit. If you get your own merchant.. you'll have to pay for the gateway and actual processing on top of the merchat (SSL certificates are what.. $900/year from verisign?) and other shit. if your CB ratio goes over 1% your merchant gone and banned forever from all TYPES of 3rd billing.. I know people who lost thier merchant doing a pornsites. Also IBILL provides a nifty partner program ;) __________________ <font size="2" face="Tahoma"><a href="http://www.18blowjobs.com/webmasters/?640" target="_blank">Get paid $25 per signup</a> listing over <a href="http://galleries.18blowjobs.com/hosted.html" target="_blank">100 free hosted video galleries</a> - <a href="http://www.18blowjobs.com/webmasters/?640" target="_blank">Check it</a> » </font>

10-03-2002, 12:21 AM	#12
Jon Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 2,578	so all of us, new and old 3rd party customers, USA and Foreign companies will all be paying the $750 Visa fee? I'm just a little confused i guess with all this talk of merchant accounts and fees and crap.. someone make it make sense! __________________ WickedFire.com - Stay here. We don't need more of you. Not unless you have money, then, fine...

10-03-2002, 12:45 AM	#16
Jizar II Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: LLL© Posts: 1,425	thanks that makes sense, but the contries US have a double tax treatie with will be excluded from paying tax to us right?

10-03-2002, 12:59 AM	#18
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,584	mrbling, You are on the right track. However, getting the merchant account through us as well as the provessing will helo you avoid any setup fee. However, you will still need to pay the Visa/Mastercard regostration but will have your own presence with them and can even display the Mastercard logo etc... H, You have summed it up nicely. Lexxx, Morpheus, & Labret, You are partially incorrect. If you setup with a company like Netbilling using your own merchant account, you will NOT need to setup your own scripting, support staff, secure certificate or fraud scrubbing. We do it all. Basically we perform almost all of the same functions as a 3rd party processor but you will be using your own merchant account whcih we help you establish as well. You will pay about 50% less than IPSP processing and will also have full control including access to all card data and fruad scrubbing so you can manage it as much or as little as you wish..... Ultimate Control! Mitch __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

10-03-2002, 01:02 AM	#19
[H] So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 103	I swear I'm calling you to get the ball rolling tomorrow Mitch.

10-03-2002, 01:04 AM	#20
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	__________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

10-03-2002, 01:17 AM	#21
Jizar II Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: LLL© Posts: 1,425	I emailed you Mitch, would like to hear more about your services.

10-03-2002, 01:23 AM	#22
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,584	Hi, I am done with emails for the night as you can imagine it has been a very busy day for us and I must leep sometime. I will be happy to answer all again in the morning. However, you will get much better explanations and a walkthrough of our system if you call our Sales Department after 9am. Speak to our sales manager Karen Campbell or Erin Vega and tell them that Mitch promised to waive the usual $199 Netbilling setup fee. I look forward to working with all... Mitch __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

10-03-2002, 01:32 AM	#24
Epoch Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Marina del Rey, CA Posts: 193	Netbilling forgot to metion the amount of the high risk registration is $1000.00 PLUS, Also if you screw up your own merchant account because you are not aware of what you are in for then you run the risk of being placed on the terminated merchant file (TMF) and if this occurs you have n o 3rd party options anymore, so good luck

10-03-2002, 01:36 AM	#25
The Machine Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 859	. Last edited by The Machine; 10-03-2002 at 01:56 AM..

10-03-2002, 01:54 AM	#29
pimpdog3 So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 652	you go girl.. awsome job! fuck them, they suck, and they are lying about how much we need them, we dont need them for shit.

10-03-2002, 01:59 AM	#32
Pornkings Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Roger V Posts: 5,334	Try running your own Merchant account its not that fuckin easy. Get ready to handle credits and chargebacks to keep you under 1%. Thats just part of it. its alot more work then you think. __________________ Pornkings.com

10-03-2002, 02:09 AM	#35
ControlThy Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,909	Good post Carrie. I am wondering about the risks of having a merchant account though. We have been doing recurring transactions through third party processors for many years and until now we were not really interested in getting a merchant account. Times change....

10-03-2002, 02:11 AM	#37
Flow Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 518	You all want to know the solution to all of this? Make all of your medium quality (and high quality for that matter) pay sites in to AVS Premium sites. Then you don't have to pay a penny and get the added benefit of promoting all those other AVS sites, pictures, and videos as part of the reason for getting a membership. Most of my AVS premium sites have a retention level of 3-6 months and I get an average of $17 per re-bill. Just a thought to those that can't afford the $750 and costs of becoming an LLC. If you want to read more on AVS and how to make them work check this out: http://www.pornmasterz.com/articles/avsstategy.html Enjoy, Flow

10-03-2002, 02:23 AM	#39
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,584	Hi, Nobody ever said it is easy having a merchant account. It is surely only for merchants who are on top of their business and want the control. As I and Clay both stated above, you will have to pay the registration fee, just as you do with the IPSPs, however, we do have e few different bank options to setup the account, both domestic and offshore. We do it everyday for new merchants. I can tell you that we get new merchants each day both new and those who are switching from other processors, and we have an extremely low attrition rate... they come and they stay. Be sure that you do not use Autohorize.net (since they no longer take adult) or any other gateway that does not do the customer service for you (as an option), have extensive fraud scrubbing etc... and certainly do not try to do it yourself. This is why so many blew out merchant accounts back before Netbilling and other adult oriented gateway companies were around. Of course third party processors are needed and probably do not like the new regulations any more than anyone else. However, it may no longer be the best solution for many. Feel free to call our Sales department after 9am PST to discuss all of your questions. 888-357-8166 or 661-252-2456 Mitch __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

10-03-2002, 02:29 AM	#40
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	Mitch, you da man! __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-03-2002, 02:51 AM	#45
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	Companies like Netbilling are sitting pretty now. You get your own merchant account but they are set up with the software/hardware to do the job and help keep your merchant account 'safe' by providing the scrub. I think most of the third party processors will do the same thing for you if you do have your own merchant account. So for anybody who can qualify to get their own merchant account it's the best of both worlds, use a billing company's experience and software keeping chargebacks as low as possible but use your own merchant account. You better keep a clean business though cuz you'll lose the merchant account even with good scrubbing in place and from what i'm reading once you've fucked up the merchant account you are fucked up from even returning to third party processing. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

10-03-2002, 03:16 AM	#50
Jizar II Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: LLL© Posts: 1,425	Clay: Can I contact you via email?