crockett

Do you think mainstream tube sites pull a profit after the B/W bill? If I remember correctlly a year or two ago youtube still wasn't making a profit. Are any of the others turning a profit or are they all still at a loss?

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AP Cash

Of course, they would not stay in the business if they did not turn a profit.

crockett

That is not true at all. Many businesses operate at a loss year after year. In 2006 it was estimated that youtube was losing $500k a month.

Read this article for example.. http://www.bivingsreport.com/2006/yo...-me-the-money/

So I wonder if since google took over youtube have they managed to pull a profit.

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TyroneGoldberg

You're supposed to lose money as a business. Less taxes to pay.

crockett

Yes this is actually true to an extent. I mean if google was looking to save some tax money a bandwidth burner like youtube could be a excellent way to do it. However they can only get away with that for so long.

It was only one or two months ago that the DivX shut down their site "stage6" which was a fairly popular site which was much better than youtube IMO..

This was their quote at why they shut down, sounds too me like they were losing money. No major company would shut down a profiable business.

“So why are we shutting the service down? Well, the short answer is that the continued operation of Stage6 is a very expensive enterprise that requires an enormous amount of attention and resources that we are not in a position to continue to provide.”

So I just wonder if any of the smaller start ups are making any money.

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TyroneGoldberg

Never heard of a 'stage 6'. Ask anyone above the age of 8 about youtube and see what they say. youtube is google write off. Divx and Google is not in the same league. School me if i'm wrong. Shitttt google is a verb not a noun.

crockett

Have you ever heard of metacafe.com? Stage6 had more traffic than metacafe at the time they closed down.

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/tr...&size=Medi um

Granted it wasn't close to the size of youtube, but it wasn't a unknown site by far and it was growing at a steady pace.

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TyroneGoldberg

This maybe true. Not saying you're bullshitting me. Ask anyone above the age of 8 have they heard of youtube or stage6 and see what they say. That's ALL i'm saying. I've heard of metacafe, but not stage6. No need to prove to me.

fris

a "tube" site or a video site?

lots of sites make good coin

HouseHead

Are you talking about sfw tube sites? Humor, ect

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fallenmuffin

www.godtube.com

I wish I was joking.

Drake

I've wondered the same. There are a ton of youtube clones out there. If youtube wasn't making any money, how would any of the clones. They're all being propped up by venture capitalists?

RTP

Googles Youtube acquisition was questioned heavily when it happened, everyone and there mother was flaming them over it and how they "saved" youtube and how stupid they were. Only when they started implementing video units was it really clear the direction they were taking it. It's a triple threat - blooger + adsense + video units all integrated now. With Youtube they expanded at a cost but the Google reach now is way beyond what they could have achieved with Google video itself. For the smaller sites, they aren't losing money, metacafe, ebaums, break, etc. are all doing very well with the content they have without having to pirate and infringe. It's user driven but heavily moderated.

Stage 6 was awesome from what I saw was copyright problems just like porn is facing now, they had so much pirated shit (equiv of "full scenes" in porn) out there it was bound to close down. Stage 6 could not operate and could not evolve in a new model so left to shut down when faced with the choice for focus on other projects.

If you look at the new BIG tube sites out there Hulu and Veoh, these have adapted into a new model. Instead of using copyrighted material that is stolen...they are working directly with the licensed owners, in return they are providing advertising time between the clips and advertising space on the players itself. CBS, NBC, etc. are all contributors to these sites. Ex. You can go to Hulu or CBS and watch entire seasons of Star Trek, Twilight Zone and more...they aren't losing money doing this. The consumer reach isn't in DVDs and traditional syndication...it's online.

The direction is now using an old Syndicated TV model but delivered in an online format with commercials and all, very targeted commercials also. Veoh started and was based off a P2P and served up Warez, Mp3s, etc. They adapted to a legitimate company and are backed heavily with their model. Both sides adapted....the tube sites and the licensed owners and are making money together.

If you look at the direction that the major VCs are headed and investing in you will see this is a hot commodity now, not just the small VCs but Redwood Partners and Sequioa Cap (who backed start-ups Apple, Youtube and Atari when they started)

I follow the logistics behind it because used to be in that space.

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crockett

and

I'm talking about a actual tube site with real user created and user uploaded videos in mainstream. I'm not going to give away what I'm wanting to do. But I'll give you a basic idea of what I'm thinking here.

Lets say there is a group of people that like using a certain kind of widget and they like to make videos and pictures of it. There is also lots of businesses built around this widget, people who build them, people who make parts or have services for them. A very large industry is built around it.

I then build a tube style site that allows these users to show off their widget pictures and videos. They can show them off because they just like to show them off, or they can show them off to generate customers to buy the widgets or maybe someone just wants to teach others how to make these widgets. It's up to them how they use it.

So I'm using the youtube format to allow these people to show off their widgets and share ideas ect..ect. I build up a nice user base of people whom are into these widgets.

I then have a lot of very specific widget oriented traffic with a lot of potential big dollar advertisers whom want to market specificially to these lovers of the widget. I know there there is advertising dollars and users that would use the site, but I'm just kinda unsure if I could make a profit after the B/W costs of running a site like this.

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georgeyw

So because you hadn't heard of it, it wasn't popular?

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crockett

Yes this is the kind of set up I'm thinking off. The idea would allow me to work as a partnership with these widget users whom are already producing the content. I'd be giving them a place to host their content and build channels ect..ect.. In return my site would have original content that "is" already being produced but it's scattered all over the net as there is no one catering to this group for their videos.

So they currently use youtube and the other tube sites all over the net. Yet none of those site can offer specific user base for their widgets. So it's possiabe to really take control of the traffic with them.

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RTP

So you aren't talking about a CPM model but an actual appliance...

Hey man hope this is not going to discourage you but the majority of companies big and small ie. Motorola, pre-launch projects via established sites already like Youtube under alias user names for viral impact, the traffic is already built and trusted for this and they test the market free. Your big advertisers are going to have to see your traffic and how it competes against youtube and sites that are a fraction of their size. Given it's a good idea it's just a few years late, if you are going to do niche CPM/CPA then you still have a chance

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crockett

These companies aren't advertising on youtube, this isn't a appliance I just used "widget" as a metaphor. The companies advertise on the niche sites, there just aren't any niche video sites to cater to the users of the widgets.

It's the same idea as someone producing a radio show in adult. The people that listen to it are adult webmasters. So adult programs advertise on the radio show but they arent going to advertise on youtube. It's about the targeted traffic.

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RTP

You are right but that's what I am saying, they don't advertise. What they do has the same effect and it's more cost effective, I'll give you an example of a cloaked viral https://youtube.com/watch?v=UMkyDwQ_LbQ and https://youtube.com/watch?v=2RoMkXfJ5Ek

That account belongs to https://youtube.com/user/mjw20001 - says it some dude...

Name: Mad JW - Krumping and moving. Play'n tricks and hitting the hoops. You know how we do! Ha ha. So hit me up if you wanna ask me anything else. Subscribe or friend me if you want, i'll post some funny videos too. - City: NYC/ LONDON - Hometown: BRONX! / EAST END - Country: United Kingdom"

This is a Motorola market test account created pre-launch of S9. So these are the types of questions you'll get when presenting to an advertiser, why would we use you if we can use Youtube and Myspace and target individuals there with pre-existing traffic and how does your traffic compare, the problem is your traffic against not only an entire market of current enthusiasts but to potentials customers they can reach

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crockett

Trust me these companies do advertise. You are putting far too much in to the theory of what the widget is and trust me you aren't even close.

This topic isn't about will people advertise, I already know they will assuming the traffic is there. It's about can advertisements alone make a profit on a tube style site, considering the amount of b/w burned.

I was hoping there were some others with some mainstream tube projects with all the talk about tubes around here. I guess the only way I will find out is if I set up the site and try it.

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RTP

Well there really is nothing to do but speculate because you are being vague about the "widget"

Like I said man not trying to discourage or argue but the model based on the information you are providing is rough at best. What you are providing points in a CPM direction then appliance then back to advertising

I don't think anyone can answer you fully without details or as you say, end up not even bing close

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