maxpower

I know everyone and their bother are all about Flash vids right now but Why? I know they can not be downloaded, but there is other solution for that problem.

I am testing some of these now, and frankly I do not get it? Its makes the files twice the size, and still offers lower quality. I know you can add jpg images and links to the vids but let be real here, I can offer downloads of .wmv vid of much better quality and still save BW.

So WFT are you guys just jumping and a stupid bandwagon to keep up with the guy across the street or what? Sorry but looking at the numbers I have in front of me makes me think either I or you are a complete idiot.

Ethersync

Flash video can easily be saved ("downloaded"). Check out the capabilities of the new H.264 codec you can use with Flash 9

Pleasurepays

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maxpower

Well ya 'We" can do almost anything we want, but still WFT? I really do not get this, sounds like BS some of the tubes created to try to fight off competition by making their BW bill triple.

I know they might play a bit faster too, but with small under 5 min clips who cares? I am really not seeing why anyone should use these in a tube site or anything else frankly unless they just want to waste money.

directfiesta

On tours they are great because it is instant. Also, the vid plays in the page where the surfer can see more info while it is playing...
Also, they are harder to hotlink if you do encode your htlm page.

Inside members section, don't think it is so great.

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Absolutely the same as with wmv's.

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maxpower

Ya I am still not seeing it, we are talking 2 times the file size here (Hot link away) and ya people will do that shit anyway regardless. I do not see hardly anyone using them for these TGP vid sites, yet every tube is.

Looking around at the currant condition it seems foolish to use them other than in graphics for your tours. I know they might ?improve? it, but shit really why should I waste so much BW for inferior video quality here in 2008?

D Ghost

Because Flash Player has 98% market penetration a.k.a. everyone has Flash Player.
http://www.adobe.com/products/player...netration.html

Antonio

embed flash and 95% of the peeps will be able to watch them, embed wmv and that drops to 80%, could be wrong but I doubt it

I started embedding wmvs and tested on a few different PCs, firefox - you need to get the right plugin to play them, if you have the media player 10 there's no plugin for that one, you have for the 9 or the 11 but not 10, same with k-meleon and fuck knows how many other browsers, flash - everybody and their mother have the plugins already

just my 2c

Antonio

damn, you beat me to it

aico

Not sure if I agree with the Quality and File Size argument. VP6-S has 720p and 1080p capabilities.

maxpower

Ya I have heard of a few compatibly issues with Fist Fuck (but what else is new They Sux) But I have seen a few players scripts that try to address this issue, also why can not play wmvs? And more importantly why would I want to try to sell porn memberships to people that could not play the vids in the programs in the first place?

Also these 15% of people that can not play wmvs here in 2008, must Never pay for Shit or they would have fixed that years ago right?

I don?t really know, I know many have good reasons but everything I starting looking at this with ?fresh eyes? is seems rather pointless.

Pleasurepays

do you really think you are going to use reasoning to penetrate the thick skull of someone who is almost 100% convinced that everyone is doing it wrong? .. that the vast majority of video online now is in a format that is just dumb?

maxpower

I edited many today, and they sux. The wmv files where so much cleaner, and much smaller to get the same quality I would almost have to triple the size from what I can see.

I did use easy FLV batch converter, that came with my Easy FLV Streaming Video 6.0. So many be that is the problem but these really do suck. I am thinking I would rather they wait the 15 seconds for it to buffer and see a Good vid than go with some crap that cost me too much to make worth seeing.

Ethersync

maxpower

So from what I am gather this is mainly a compatibility issue, and has little to do with load times or server loads? I do know they load a bit faster, but again at the BW they think it seem you would end up with slower loading vids over all with poorer quality.

I guess we will have to see about the compatibility think, but if this is the Biggest problem then………………………… as like I said what % of Paying customer do you really that can not play wmv files? 3%?

maxpower

I know you guys are trying to tell me something, and I am open to it but Fuck? Lesson to this ?each video is between 50MB and 100MB in size? and even on this site the guy does not have the BW to push these in a way that makes them even watch able.

Making files HUGE is not really what I want to do thank U ;)

stickyfingerz

You are doing it wrong, thats why. Flv files should never be larger than .wmv files using same bitrate and resolution. Also as already stated compatibility. Also h.264 as was mentioned. Even microsoft knows .wmv has issues. Thats why they are pushing their silverlight model. Want to see flash in action? www.hulu.com and specifically for higher end superb quality www.hulu.com/hd When I can watch a video fullscreen on my 22" monitor at 1680x1050 resolution with 0 buffering time, instant play and be close to HD quality STREAMING I know which direction I should be pushing in for my content.

Ethersync

With the H.264 codec and Flash 9 you can also make your small files even smaller... Just better compression than what you're using. So good in fact that you can stream HD content.

maxpower

What am I doing wrong then? I did use the same ?bitrate and resolution? but the came out HUGE not smaller in any way. I was expecting a bit of fucking compression, but got the opposite.

I will try again, but I started with a wmv file that was 4.5 MB and 158kbps, made it into flash at 188 kbps, now its 10.6 MB, and looks like Shit still? WTF? How can U say it makes anything smaller or better in anyway? What am I doing wrong, I know how to convert vid files.

aico

Then like Sticky said, you're doing it wrong.

aico

If you're converting WMV into Flash, Of course the quality is going to be worse, you just recompressed something that has already been compressed. You have to convert the source files that the WMV were made from.

maxpower

What converter should I use to make a wmv file into a flash file with better quality and a smaller size than before? From where I stand this looks impossible, and the only way to get a Flash file to look as good as a wmv is to make it 3 times the Kbps.

I know you guys like to play games, but I am looking at the numbers and quality Right now

Ethersync

http://web2.mux.am/

maxpower

Well ok now we are getting some place, But almost All the vids I have are in wmv, and any sponsors content will be in wmv as well. So your saying MPEG would be better to edit from?

But this causes the same kind of problems, who the hell has these ?source files? I sure the hell do not, and for the Vast majority of WMV files I do get it seems conversion to Flash is just a way to fuck them up.

maxpower

Ok lets play another game here, lets say I opened a Tube with ALL WMV vids. (not that I run a tube) what would be the problem with that?

Ethersync

Go for it. I don't think it'll be very successful, but prove me wrong

You could make a DivX "tube" site using this...
http://www.divx.com/divx/windows/webplayer/

maxpower

I have been looking fo a player that will work well with Fire Fox, and IE so I will check them out. But why do you really think people would not want wmv files? I know a few might not be able to see them, but..............................

bDok

that hulu.com/hd really did showcase and prove the point to me. Those clips looked great. Wow.

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maxpower

Not that I will open a tube, but just want to really break this down. Just seems weird we have huge amount of wmv files being converted to Flash to be used in tube right? But wmv to flash conversions cause a very large about of degradation is quality and make the files larger.

Just done not add up?

maxpower

Ya they can make the clips look good, but they are HUGE and not something you can really let people use unless they pay you directly other wise you end up with Very poor quality vids That I might add are still bigger.

stickyfingerz

Well you still are off on this. The Hulu Hd files can't be that huge since I can watch those 2 to 3 minute trailers instantly. Ok now then look at your above post

"I will try again, but I started with a wmv file that was 4.5 MB and 158kbps, made it into flash at 188 kbps, now its 10.6 MB, and looks like Shit still? WTF? How can U say it makes anything smaller or better in anyway? What am I doing wrong, I know how to convert vid files."

First off that bitrate IS going to look like shit. Garbage in garbage out. You cant take a bitrate of 158kbps and increase it to 188kbps and expect the quality to increase. The only thing you did there was increase the file size. I dont mean to seem short about it, but you need to do some reading up first. Cover the basics first. A great resource that will probably help you with the questions you have is http://www.videohelp.com/ Be glad to help you in the right direction if you need it.

maxpower

Any other players? this one has the same problem does not conver wmv files, if In had a tube how could I convert the wmv (95% of the files) I get into anything else that would look ok?

2012

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Ethersync

Upload one of your WMV files to some tube site that allows uploads and then when the video is posted on the site download the FLV file. Then take the same WMV file and convert it to FLV. Now compare the two FLV files. Which is smaller? You could even upload a short video that isn't graphic to YouTube for this test and then use http://www.keepvid.com to download the FLV from YouTube. Then you will know definitively if you are "doing it wrong"

maxpower

That was just the setting on this converter 188kbps, I could have gone 128 and did with the same file. What did it do? Well made it look worse and was still bigger than the 188kbps it start out as.

From what I gather U can not convert common file types (wmv) that normally viewers will have to flash with out them looking like total shit or creating huge files.

I am going to play with them some more, but seems to me this stuff is NOT ready for primetime.

maxpower

Thax I will try that, I know something has to be wrong. But I do wonder, if its me or not still Tube vids do look like shit and this is why maybe. Maybe they where for the most part converted from wmv to Flash and flash is not really good at doing that at all

stickyfingerz

First off the software you use to convert it is a huge factor, secondly and AGAIN your sample that you are working with HAS to be high quality. There are .wmv files that are super high quality and high bitrate. I work with hdv files so we are talking bitrates well over 10,000 not 188kbps. You cannot put in shit and expect gold to be squeezed out the other side.

maxpower

What program would you recommend I was told to get the one that I have and that is was very good. http://www.easyflv.com/

Ya I do get that, but lets say I run a tube? People are not going to submit bitrates well over 10,000, I will get mostly 100-500 or so. Hell even when I pay for non exclusive content I do not get bit rate high enough apparently to make this flash stuff work worth a shit.

I can not even get content video size like your talking about in most members areas. I can see some uses for this, but NOT for free vids.

stickyfingerz

Well you are using a 49.00 piece of software. Look at sorenson squeeze or Canopus Procoder, or autodesk cleaner xl. Quality isnt cheap. However if you look at the link I gave you earlier. www.videohelp.com there are some solutions there that are free or cheaper.

Ethersync

You can go to www.mux.am and do a quick test there too. You just choose your source format and the format you want it converted into, upload the wmv file (or provide a url) and then wait for the link to appear to download the new flv file. Then compare the size to your converted flv file.

Maybe you mispoke above, but Flash doesn't convert anything. Flash just plays the videos that are encoded with codecs it supports

maxpower

Thax I will check that out now, But are you saying I can take a 158kbps vid and make it into a flash vid that will be the same disk size basically and quality? Or that no matter what the flash vids will come out Bigger and with Less quality unless I have 1000,000 kbps footage to start with.

Ethersync

Dude, stop talking and go test

maxpower

Ya I will give it another full day or too of testing. Will try as many programs as possible to convert these wmv 250 kbps vids into Flash vids of about the same kbps. I do wonder what file sizes the big tube sites are running, from what little info I have it’s looking like it would be Much better just to offer wmv and Free download to everyone, and be done with it.

DBS.US

The bandwagon effect, also known as social proof and closely related to opportunism, is the observation that people often do (or believe) things because many other people do (or believe) the same. The effect is often pejoratively referred to as herding instinct, particularly as applied to adolescents. Without examining the merits of the particular thing, people tend to “follow the crowd”. The bandwagon effect is the reason for the bandwagon fallacy's success.

In psychology, the bandwagon effect refers to well-documented behavioral patterns among people and has potentially infinite applications. The general rule is that conduct or beliefs spread among people, as fads clearly do, with "the probability of any individual adopting it increasing with the proportion who have already done so." [1] Thus, as more people come to believe in something, we can expect others to hop on the bandwagon, regardless of whether the underlying evidence is conclusive or not.

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stickyfingerz

If you are indicating that flash video is just a bandwagon thing you are a tad deluded.

maxpower

I dont know guys I think he might be right, your arguments are REally weak and not supported by any facts I can find. I have looked at 5 converter so far, every time it makes the flash vids Larger and have poorer quality.

Ya sure Flash might be Really good for 100,000 kbps vids, But I can not see any use for them as far as I am concerned. Unless Flash can offer Small vids, 156-300kbps and better quality than other options then you guys are on this bandwagon to nowhere other than high BW bills ;)

Libertine

Oh, but it is a bandwagon thing. Most technological choices are.

But because everyone has hopped on this one now, it will be the focus of much technological development, and will quickly improve. Thus, it will actually become better than the alternatives quickly.

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