Cheaters using info from known/legit webmasters to stay under the radar - GoFuckYourself.com

Quentin · 06-03-2008, 11:13 AM

I've been running into this a lot lately, and it appears from other threads that I've seen that this is a growing practice among fraudulent webmasters: they get their hands on contact information for webmasters who are well-established and trusted, and use that information to establish accounts through which they then pass fraudulent signups. I'm sure the theory here is that using a known/established webmaster's info deflects suspicions concerning their account, and helps them stay 'under the radar' when programs scan for fraudulent accounts.

One common feature I've noticed with such accounts is the use of free email domains for their contact email address in combination with receiving their payments through ePassporte. Sometimes they will establish the account with the pay by method set to check, then log in later to change that over to ePass.

The contact email address they supply often looks consistent with the other information provided; for example, if they were using Xmoney's contact info to establish the account, they might provide an email address of xmoney@gmail or xmoney@yahoo.

I've shut down or rejected applications from at least a couple dozen accounts that are trying this scam, and it doesn't appear that they are letting up. My hunch is that a very small number of people are involved (maybe even just 1 guy), but they sure are persistent.

So -- program operators, if you find an account that appears to be cheating, and the URL and contact info supplied for that account is from an established webmaster, don't assume that someone legit has crossed over to the dark side... it's probably an impostor.

- Q.

JFK · 06-03-2008, 11:18 AM

hey Q, this is worth a bump

AGP Albert · 06-03-2008, 11:22 AM

Hey Q:

We have found similar instances and unfortunately fraud continues to be one area of our business that continues to evolve. Seeing that it is harder to find quality webmasters in today's business environment we still continue to retool our fraud controls.

This is now emphasized with the advent of merchant accounts. There is more accountability on the affiliate program to not only control fraud and charge backs, yet there is new responsibilities with strong customer service programs to also include fraud control.

This industry is known for sharing knowledge, yet in all my experiences, fraud control still remains to be based on experience and a true trade secret that remains proprietary.

TheSenator · 06-03-2008, 11:25 AM

Can't you match up EIN numbers with address?

Jens Van Assterdam · 06-03-2008, 11:25 AM

Why dont you just dont allow duplicate name/adress and everything else..?

payd2purv · 06-03-2008, 11:25 AM

Sorry guys i'll be a little sneakier next time.

Eman - PG · 06-03-2008, 11:28 AM

Whoever is doing it might be reading the boards, so the information posted is probably useless now as they will change their approach.

Quentin · 06-03-2008, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eman - PG

Whoever is doing it might be reading the boards, so the information posted is probably useless now as they will change their approach.

I understand where you're coming from, and this is precisely why I don't typically disclose publicly any information about how I identify/catch cheaters. In this scam, however, legitimate webmasters are being affected, and it's not going to stop unless or until the cheaters change their approach... so in this particular instance, getting them to change their MO is part of the goal.

Quentin · 06-03-2008, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Van Assterdam

Why dont you just dont allow duplicate name/adress and everything else..?

This would work when the legitimate webmaster in question already has an account on the same program the cheater is trying to sign up for -- we're fairly new, and as such there are many legitimate/established webmasters who do not already have Xmoney accounts.

Rochard · 06-03-2008, 12:07 PM

The quickest way to stop them is to limit epass payments......

tranza · 06-03-2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

The quickest way to stop them is to limit epass payments......

And hurt 100's of legit webmasters??

What is your idea exactly?

Michael O · 06-03-2008, 12:15 PM

If you are uncertain about a webmaster ask for a copy of ID to determine who the person is. If you are legit I don't see a reason why you would not provide it if you can block out the sensitive information.
If someone changes payout information put the payout on hold until you have verified the person.

I know ARS required me to send a copy of ID a long time ago and I never considered not sending it why would I

MichaelP · 06-03-2008, 01:02 PM

Good Post Quentin.. txs for the headup

06-03-2008, 11:13 AM	#1
Quentin Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,280	Cheaters using info from known/legit webmasters to stay under the radar I've been running into this a lot lately, and it appears from other threads that I've seen that this is a growing practice among fraudulent webmasters: they get their hands on contact information for webmasters who are well-established and trusted, and use that information to establish accounts through which they then pass fraudulent signups. I'm sure the theory here is that using a known/established webmaster's info deflects suspicions concerning their account, and helps them stay 'under the radar' when programs scan for fraudulent accounts. One common feature I've noticed with such accounts is the use of free email domains for their contact email address in combination with receiving their payments through ePassporte. Sometimes they will establish the account with the pay by method set to check, then log in later to change that over to ePass. The contact email address they supply often looks consistent with the other information provided; for example, if they were using Xmoney's contact info to establish the account, they might provide an email address of xmoney@gmail or xmoney@yahoo. I've shut down or rejected applications from at least a couple dozen accounts that are trying this scam, and it doesn't appear that they are letting up. My hunch is that a very small number of people are involved (maybe even just 1 guy), but they sure are persistent. So -- program operators, if you find an account that appears to be cheating, and the URL and contact info supplied for that account is from an established webmaster, don't assume that someone legit has crossed over to the dark side... it's probably an impostor. - Q. __________________ Q. Boyer

06-03-2008, 11:18 AM	#2
JFK FUBAR the ORIGINATOR Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: FUBARLAND Posts: 67,374	hey Q, this is worth a bump __________________ FUBAR Webmasters - The FUBAR Times - FUBAR Webmasters Mobile - FUBARTV.XXX For promo opps contact jfk at fubarwebmasters dot com

06-03-2008, 11:22 AM	#3
AGP Albert Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 720	Hey Q: We have found similar instances and unfortunately fraud continues to be one area of our business that continues to evolve. Seeing that it is harder to find quality webmasters in today's business environment we still continue to retool our fraud controls. This is now emphasized with the advent of merchant accounts. There is more accountability on the affiliate program to not only control fraud and charge backs, yet there is new responsibilities with strong customer service programs to also include fraud control. This industry is known for sharing knowledge, yet in all my experiences, fraud control still remains to be based on experience and a true trade secret that remains proprietary. __________________ AGP ALBERT ALTOGLOBALPROCESSING.COM Email: [email protected] Office: 305.532.8701 Fax: 305.532.8702 ICQ: 585003252 Skype:Albert.AGP BB PIN: 31CBA558 www.AltoGlobalProcessing.com [email protected] See Who I Am At AdultWhosWho.com! See My Ambush Interview!

06-03-2008, 11:25 AM	#4
TheSenator Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 13,336	Can't you match up EIN numbers with address? __________________ ISeekGirls.com since 2005

06-03-2008, 11:25 AM	#5
Jens Van Assterdam The Dupre Pimp Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Koh Samui Posts: 6,677	Why dont you just dont allow duplicate name/adress and everything else..? __________________ Read TOS for signature rules

06-03-2008, 11:25 AM	#6
payd2purv Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,727	Sorry guys i'll be a little sneakier next time. __________________

06-03-2008, 11:28 AM	#7
Eman - PG PG Co-Boss Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: GFY Posts: 524	Whoever is doing it might be reading the boards, so the information posted is probably useless now as they will change their approach.

06-03-2008, 12:07 PM	#10
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 73,973	The quickest way to stop them is to limit epass payments...... __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

06-03-2008, 12:15 PM	#12
Michael O More Cowbell Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Nakhom Nowhere Posts: 10,607	If you are uncertain about a webmaster ask for a copy of ID to determine who the person is. If you are legit I don't see a reason why you would not provide it if you can block out the sensitive information. If someone changes payout information put the payout on hold until you have verified the person. I know ARS required me to send a copy of ID a long time ago and I never considered not sending it why would I __________________ Truth Teller

06-03-2008, 01:02 PM	#13
MichaelP Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: QWEBEC Corporate Office Posts: 7,124	Good Post Quentin.. txs for the headup