Is the Industry on a drop? - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

Iron Fist · 06-11-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSenator

TGPs are a thing of the past. There ratios must suck ass.

Shhh... keep telling everyone that.

aico · 06-11-2008, 11:44 AM

"Remember when all we had to do was put up a banner, and sales would come?"

Ever think that maybe this is because all there was were banners? There was hardly any free content, and those who had it paid a lot for it.

No one to blame but ourselves, blame tube sites all you want, but the problem started way before they came around.

RogerV · 06-11-2008, 11:46 AM

soon all the big dogs will launch tube sites and there will be as many online as TGP's
end of the day we are giving away our bread and butter. i dont care what anyone says.

I'm thinking about launching a free dating site and Tube site very soon if i dont see a change in the biz. as I'm sure everyone else will as well, lets just give everything away free fuck it!

the only way we will make big bucks again is if we censor all the free shit no pussy or dick then people will pay and stay longer

tony286 · 06-11-2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerV

soon all the big dogs will launch tube sites and there will be as many online as TGP's
end of the day we are giving away our bread and butter. i dont care what anyone says.

I'm thinking about launching a free dating site and Tube site very soon if i dont see a change in the biz. as I'm sure everyone else will as well, lets just give everything away free fuck it!

the only way we will make big bucks again is if we censor all the free shit no pussy or dick then people will pay and stay longer

dont worry Roger, the government is aware of all that free shit also. They have copa up once again for a fight. So it will be pay to see,if they get it right this time.

cognitos · 06-11-2008, 01:25 PM

This is the law of diminishing returns.

If you have a program, being sold by one affiliate, and that affiliate makes 30 sales per day; and you add 20 more affiliates and they all make 5 sales per day, then you add 100 more affiliates, and they all make 2 sales per day.

A market goes through a cycle of development, growth, maturity, and then retreat.

When you have hundreds of affiliates all promoting the same product, then they can expect a diminishing return. There are a absolute number of surfers, and if all affiliates provide them the same offerings, then you can expect - as more affiliates join the market - that your slice of the pie will shrink.

Diversification, I think, is the key to success (the same as any market). If you are caught in the maturity stage in a markets cycle then you can expect your sales to remain constant (not good - unless you are growing you are shrinking), if you are in the retreat stage in the cycle, then you can expect your sales to shrink. The maturity stage should forewarn you of the retreat stage; at which time you must diversify your offering to capture the development and growth cycle of the markets next rotation.

Doing any different will spell shrinking $$$.

Persius · 06-11-2008, 01:28 PM

There is no money in porn. end of story

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 06-11-2008, 02:11 PM

I hope COPA does come around again and pass.
Free porn is dangerous to all sides.

Dennis69 · 06-11-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ

I hope COPA does come around again and pass.
Free porn is dangerous to all sides.

Agreed... It's a fucking given that we can't police ourselves so we will have to deal whatever hand we are dealt then

SGS · 06-11-2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis69

Agreed... It's a fucking given that we can't police ourselves so we will have to deal whatever hand we are dealt then

This will be the case I'm afraid.

Hell House Vic · 06-11-2008, 02:30 PM

the whole US is on a down. a big down. luckily porn is international, and resists recessions and depressions well, like alcohol and tobacco.

Dennis69 your signature is rediculously HOT.

V_RocKs · 06-11-2008, 02:35 PM

My sales are still fine.

brandonstills · 06-11-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ

It's an important topic it think. It's worth having something like this at least once a week.
People are losing money yet traffic remains the same and in some cases traffic is higher yet sales are lower. It is unusual and the drop has been happening pretty fast, faster than usual I think, I only got my little numbers but from what I am seeing in this thread I am not the only guy feeling it.

At least 2257 had us spooked about content, this is about bottom dollar for affiliates. I'd rather fret about 2257 issues than lose a cent honestly...

It's similar to TV advertising. Disruptive technologies like Tivo make it hard to sell ads now because the people buying ads know a much smaller % of people actually see them. That and people are so immune to ads now even if they see them it doesn't have any effect on them. A similar change is happen in our industry right now.

brandonstills · 06-11-2008, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sexy Rex

Well, we're going up. We're giving a kickass product for free, users get a new girl dancing on their desktop every day for free and they can buy for as low as $2 if they want to see her naked. We show the whole member's area, don't fuck them (no adware/spyware/xsells) and guess what? They come back and buy more.

I'm not saying Desktop Strippers are the answer to the problems of the industry, we convert extremely well on traffic that suits us (up to $0.20 cents per click sent, check all our affiliates detailed statistics here: http://www2.totemcash.com/free/statistics.php) but this is not where I'm going. I believe the dominant business model in this industry (recuring membership, PPS for affiliates) should change. We're doing way more money today charging users per girl and building trust than before trying to sell membership. I guess it was a close call before between the two models, but it's not anymore with all the tube sites around. I personaly believe the next model revolves around tube site selling scenes in HD pay per view/download. Once the user found the niche he wants to jerk off on, it's the best time to provide him with the best video on that niche, in good quality for a very low price. Of course you won't be able to advertise for $35 per free trial with that, but maybe one day affiliates will start looking at how much they do per click...

my 2 cents, bash away

Hardly a bash. Very well put. Actually I've seen the desktop stripper thing for ages and never really looked into it. I'm surprised it would be that popular, most people's computers aren't entirely private and some stripper randomly showing up on the desktop could lead to some embarrassing situations. No doubt I'm sure you've addressed that concern somehow.

You mentioned the word trust. Consumer confidence would be another term for it. I think you're right about the standard pay site model but I think subscription, at least in other forms will still work but not with pay sites. More like an unlimited VOD while you are a member.

I was at a talk by Paul Graham at Stanford a while back and he was talking about how Google was successful because they are basically good.

http://www.paulgraham.com/good.html

Some good stuff there.

The Duck · 06-11-2008, 03:08 PM

For the three years I have been in adult I have a slowly rising revenue stram

brandonstills · 06-11-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

That is exactly why I said working hard doesn't cut it anymore. You have to sit down and evaluate the marketplace and come up with a plan that will allow you to be successful today and in the future. Just because it worked yesterday doesn't mean it will work tomorrow. If you don't change your business plan and adapt your business then you can't really expect business to continue to do well forever.

The big problem a lot of people have is they are lazy and don't want to adapt. The internet is a fast paced beast. I've said this before, TGPs have made absolutely no changes or improvements to their business model in the last 5+ years. TGP sites were losing traffic way before tubes came around. I actually did a lot of research on it and all tgps started dropping around the same time and it had nothing to do with tubes. You can't sit back and refuse to change and expect to continue to be successful.

Very well put. What are you guys doing differently than TGP's and what are some of the ways you have adapted?

brandonstills · 06-11-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

dont worry Roger, the government is aware of all that free shit also. They have copa up once again for a fight. So it will be pay to see,if they get it right this time.

What's copa?

BSleazy · 06-11-2008, 03:38 PM

Why hasn't anyone sued any of these big tube sites with illegal copyrighted movies???

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 06-11-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCyber

Why hasn't anyone sued any of these big tube sites with illegal copyrighted movies???

Most companies are to leveraged finanacially to do anything.
Translation meaning they are to broke to go after them and to couple it with the futility of pursuit is known. Ya kill one 5 more pop up. It becomes a game of wack a mole.

brandonstills · 06-11-2008, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Most companies are to leveraged finanacially to do anything.
Translation meaning they are to broke to go after them and to couple it with the futility of pursuit is known. Ya kill one 5 more pop up. It becomes a game of wack a mole.

Only they become super resistant moles. Think DDT. Look what happened after they closed Napster.

BSleazy · 06-11-2008, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Most companies are to leveraged finanacially to do anything.
Translation meaning they are to broke to go after them and to couple it with the futility of pursuit is known. Ya kill one 5 more pop up. It becomes a game of wack a mole.

I think the word would spread quick if these illegal tube sites were getting slapped with lawsuits left and right. But ya you are right about the money thing. The tube owners would just avoid putting up videos from companies that would sue and stick with those that wouldn't.

CarlosTheGaucho · 06-11-2008, 05:42 PM

I assume, even after reading this discussion, what we can see here is a certain state of disorder, to sum it up, there are a couple factors I would examine as crucial:

1) there is more porn than ever on the market competing for the surfer and his credit card, mostly the same "clones" of what turned out to be succesful in 2000/ 01 or so

2) at the same time, it's the first time in the history when surfers have an IMMEDIATE access to free pirated porn, that doesn't require any semi technical skills or even waiting, immedate access to satisfaction with the content, that is totally similar to what most of the marketers are pushing.

3) on the top of that, for the first time, it's not the porn producer, but the consumer, who decides what he wants and what's available, just check all the big old school brands with their high quality product and how many of them bleed.

It's the first time when anyone can expose their ass, the definition of porn has changed, the consumers are not dependent on what producers put on the market but they can create even their own thing.

4) the consumer base is educated, and it's more and more consumers that already joined a paysite in the past, the internet in households is spread for say 10 - 12 + years and honestly, raise your hand who never searched for porn on the web.. These consumers are more demanding and know the old tricks.

5) Porn is not a luxury thing, it's a need, and there will be always a demand for that, unless it will be available for free, as far as it's a need, you'll just grab whatever turns you on to get off, the same as if you're hungry you grab a junk food to satisfy your basic need. This is a parallel to the tube porn vs. higher quality paid porn.

6) there is not much variety in the way the paysites are promoted over the years, just it's more promoters and more paysites around than ever, that's why blogs or review sites are still a succesful promotional tool, because they give the surfer a recommendation, a referrence, they amuse him, creating certain loyalty, they have character, instead of trying to grab the surfer for the product trying to amaze him simply with the obvious fact that he is seeing porn he saw already hundred times, as thousands of other sites do.

Just tried to do a little summary, feel free to add your thoughts.

brandonstills · 06-11-2008, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCyber

I think the word would spread quick if these illegal tube sites were getting slapped with lawsuits left and right. But ya you are right about the money thing. The tube owners would just avoid putting up videos from companies that would sue and stick with those that wouldn't.

There's such a huge amount of amateur submitted stuff out there now, even if all pirated stuff were removed it wouldn't change the nature of tube sites taking business away from paid forms of porn.

cognitos · 06-11-2008, 07:01 PM

If you look at things from a surfers point of view -- then the choice between a large MGP and a Tube site is a no-brainer. When a surfer hits a MGP they see a thumb they like, they click it, and get sent to some other site. They see another thumb on this new site, they click it, and get sent to another site, etc. etc. etc. The same surfer goes to a tube site, they see a thumb they like, they click it, they watch it. The surfer is happy! The surfer bookmarks the tube site and never goes back to the MGP.

Instead of adadpting and confronting the new reality of the web -- MGPs are carrying on like it is business as usual, whilst they lose their surfers, and their money. The MGP business model is in decline, and has passed it's maturity stage. The tube site has left it's development stage and is now in it's growth stage. As the tubes grow, and the MGP decline -- it is the failure of the MGP to change that is setting them up for continued failure and ultimately obscurity.

Here is a chart showing the rise of a medium sized tube site, and the decline of a very large MGP. Remember -- if you are not growing, you are shrinking. Names deleted to save embarrassment / conflict;

munki · 06-11-2008, 07:36 PM

I invented failing porn niches...

polish_aristocrat · 06-12-2008, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

I assume, even after reading this discussion, what we can see here is a certain state of disorder, to sum it up, there are a couple factors I would examine as crucial:

1) there is more porn than ever on the market competing for the surfer and his credit card, mostly the same "clones" of what turned out to be succesful in 2000/ 01 or so

2) at the same time, it's the first time in the history when surfers have an IMMEDIATE access to free pirated porn, that doesn't require any semi technical skills or even waiting, immedate access to satisfaction with the content, that is totally similar to what most of the marketers are pushing.

3) on the top of that, for the first time, it's not the porn producer, but the consumer, who decides what he wants and what's available, just check all the big old school brands with their high quality product and how many of them bleed.

It's the first time when anyone can expose their ass, the definition of porn has changed, the consumers are not dependent on what producers put on the market but they can create even their own thing.

4) the consumer base is educated, and it's more and more consumers that already joined a paysite in the past, the internet in households is spread for say 10 - 12 + years and honestly, raise your hand who never searched for porn on the web.. These consumers are more demanding and know the old tricks.

5) Porn is not a luxury thing, it's a need, and there will be always a demand for that, unless it will be available for free, as far as it's a need, you'll just grab whatever turns you on to get off, the same as if you're hungry you grab a junk food to satisfy your basic need. This is a parallel to the tube porn vs. higher quality paid porn.

6) there is not much variety in the way the paysites are promoted over the years, just it's more promoters and more paysites around than ever, that's why blogs or review sites are still a succesful promotional tool, because they give the surfer a recommendation, a referrence, they amuse him, creating certain loyalty, they have character, instead of trying to grab the surfer for the product trying to amaze him simply with the obvious fact that he is seeing porn he saw already hundred times, as thousands of other sites do.

Just tried to do a little summary, feel free to add your thoughts.

awesome post

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 06-12-2008, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cognitos

Here is a chart showing the rise of a medium sized tube site, and the decline of a very large MGP. Remember -- if you are not growing, you are shrinking. Names deleted to save embarrassment / conflict;

I saw that happen in a few places using Alexa also but everyone around here says Alexa does not matter! LOL! At anyrate since it is here now and the cat is out of the bag.

Finding these crosses is not to hard. Pick some of your favorite TGP's and compare them with some of the popular tube sites. Its fascinating to see where the cross happens.

Now if we can take these charts and contrast them with sales trends...
I am betting the sales trend drops as the Tube site climbs.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 06-12-2008, 04:40 AM

Well I wont block the names...

Here...
Be sure to sit down guys before seeing this...

FightThisPatent · 06-12-2008, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

I assume, even after reading this discussion, what we can see here is a certain state of disorder, to sum it up, there are a couple factors I would examine as crucial:
.....

what he said

Fight the you took the words outta my keyboard!

tranza · 06-12-2008, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultimatebbwdotcom

So true, if I was even vaguely interested in main stream porn, I wouldnt be paying at all - maybe a membership or two a year for a month if someone came out with something very good.

Apart from that, the huge amount of free stuff every program gives out, generally poor policing of stolen content and billions of sites....well, it all adds up and its all kinda fucked really isn't it.

hahahahaha to funny! the gif

Dennis69 · 06-12-2008, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ

I saw that happen in a few places using Alexa also but everyone around here says Alexa does not matter! LOL! At anyrate since it is here now and the cat is out of the bag.

Finding these crosses is not to hard. Pick some of your favorite TGP's and compare them with some of the popular tube sites. Its fascinating to see where the cross happens.

Now if we can take these charts and contrast them with sales trends...
I am betting the sales trend drops as the Tube site climbs.

That would be interesting to find out... but for some reason webmasters KNOW what is happening but deny it in there own head!

d-null · 06-12-2008, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Well I wont block the names...

Here...
Be sure to sit down guys before seeing this...

on general forums where surfers might happen to mention porn once in a while, I have seen them recommend sites like youporn or pornbb to each other but nobody ever recommends a tgp or mgp... as the months go by it is getting rarer and rarer to find those that don't know where to get lots of free content, even in face to face conversations in the bar I've heard guys recommending redtube or youporn to buddies

jollyperv · 06-13-2008, 05:40 PM

How about a secret club of old schoolers who pay monthly dues, pool the money and pay russian and filipino kids to constantly bring these pieces of shit offline. It's obvious that they're here to stay and that their bullshit illegal practices can only be combatted by equally dirty and illegal practices.

Jenny S. · 06-13-2008, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

I don't like to assign blame as to why business is doing badly but I have to say the single most important factor is the advent of tube sites. Who is going to pay $30-$40/month plus cross-sells when you can get full and downloadable videos for free. I don't think the recession or high gas prices make a dent in comparison to the effect tube sites have done.
WG

Thank you!

Tubesites and Share Sites. Who is going to pay $30-$40/month plus cross-sells when you can get full site rips for free? I probably can get any site witthin a couple of hours ripped& zipped & dowloadable on Rapidshare & Co. if I know in which forum to post the request.
I've been bringing this up in here and other places for over a year now but nobody seems to give a shit. Oh well, start liking it, and make single girl niche sites, and you'll always have a trusty fan base...

kenny · 06-13-2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Well I wont block the names...

Here...
Be sure to sit down guys before seeing this...

wow.. that is a HUGE problem

sysk · 06-13-2008, 07:04 PM

Alexa's Top 100 sites picks:

10. RapidShare
21. YouPorn
30. Redtube.com
32. MiniNova
59. The Pirate Bay
71. Isohunt.com
91. Torrentz.com

Jenny S. · 06-13-2008, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny

wow.. that is a HUGE problem

The problem is actually bigger than you begin to know, and goes way beyond copyright violations. The question is, why would someone want to put up a free share site and burn terrabytes of transfer volume ever minute of the day?

The answer is: On every illegal sick and fucked up Zootube, Rapeforum, Snuff-forum, NN-share-stolen-shit-Site out there, you'll see a banner of a major, supposedly reputable company popping up.

It works like this:

-have someone put up a free tube or share site
-have supposedly anonymous users upload totally sick content
-share the content for free (you didn't know a "Rapeboard" promotes rape)
-then put your banner on top and ask visitors:

"Wanna date chicks that like it rough in your zip code: Join the Adult Rape Finder HERE!"

Iron Fist · 06-13-2008, 08:16 PM

Good discussion and points

LB-69 · 06-14-2008, 03:15 AM

"you'll see a banner of a major, supposedly reputable company popping up" As long as they make money, they dont fucking care how to make it, traffic is traffic, money is money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenny S.

The problem is actually bigger than you begin to know, and goes way beyond copyright violations. The question is, why would someone want to put up a free share site and burn terrabytes of transfer volume ever minute of the day?

The answer is: On every illegal sick and fucked up Zootube, Rapeforum, Snuff-forum, NN-share-stolen-shit-Site out there, you'll see a banner of a major, supposedly reputable company popping up.

It works like this:

-have someone put up a free tube or share site
-have supposedly anonymous users upload totally sick content
-share the content for free (you didn't know a "Rapeboard" promotes rape)
-then put your banner on top and ask visitors:

"Wanna date chicks that like it rough in your zip code: Join the Adult Rape Finder HERE!"

commonsense · 06-14-2008, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

I'm just going to play devils advocate here for a minute.

Everyone says the tubes are killing them. But I've also read in this thread many people saying their traffic is up. If surfers are getting their porn from tubes, why are they still surfing and visiting your sites/galleries/blogs?

Maybe the surfers are looking for something, it's just not there so they settle on the tubes.

I've talked to COUNTLESS people who say they hate modern porn. The steroid guy with the huge cock just fucking like a jackhammer on a girl who's faking it, usually the same girl you've seen in 20 other galleries being sold as a teen or an amateur or a "real girlfriend".

Maybe the prices need to come down, or maybe the quality needs to go up. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud here.

Traffic being up and increased revenue are 2 completely different things. Very few in this business have any kind of business sense, and feel the only way to compete is by giving away as much as possible out of desperation. And when you do not produce the content or have a stake in it you simply do not give a shit. Every day more and more consumer are trained to no be paying consumers of porn because of the amount of stolen content available and shady billing practices of some programs.

Thats the truth.

Pricing...

The only ballers in this business are the ones that gouge YOUR surfers and charge them over $100 for memberships through prechecked/hidden xsales and shady trials. Look where you send your traffic and see if YOU are feeding the problem.

potter · 06-14-2008, 03:58 AM

gas prices, inflation, and a poor economy. maybe once we get a dem in office things will be better

Jenny S. · 06-14-2008, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LB-69

"you'll see a banner of a major, supposedly reputable company popping up" As long as they make money, they dont fucking care how to make it, traffic is traffic, money is money.

That's right, as long as it brings traffic (=money) they don't give a shit whether it's stolen content, rape, beastiality, snuff, kp, or rebels cutting women's breasts off with machetes. I always was a strong supporter of a free, uncensored Internet, but after seeing what I've seen in the past 12 months I have my own doubts about that.

Eventually two things are going to happen, and both will mean the end of the Internet as we know it.

1. Something really sick and disgusting is going to happen and will be used by the Feds as an excuse to censor, may be even in a joint effort with the EU. There are already talks.

2.Big telephone companies are going to step in, demanding a piece of the cake too. They'll use the Tube sites as an excuse to charge their customers per Gigabyte, which will be the end of the free Internet. It's already in the make, it's just on hold because of election year.

jollyperv · 06-14-2008, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenny S.

2.Big telephone companies are going to step in, demanding a piece of the cake too. They'll use the Tube sites as an excuse to charge their customers per Gigabyte, which will be the end of the free Internet. It's already in the make, it's just on hold because of election year.

Then an ISP will come along and offer "unlimited internet" again, and guess which ISP the customers will flock to? Things will have come full circle.

Jenny S. · 06-14-2008, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollyperv

Then an ISP will come along and offer "unlimited internet" again, and guess which ISP the customers will flock to? Things will have come full circle.

You are apparently totally clueless about how the Internet works. ISPs rent from telephone companies, it's the big companies like AT&T in every country that make the rules, together with the government, both, in the US and Europe.

If, let's say, Deutsche Telekom in Germany charges per Gigabyte, all the ISPs have to follow because they rent from them.

As for the censorship, it has already started in France

http://blog.t1production.com/french-...censor-the-web

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1034_3-6237715.html

and the UK is most likely to follow suit. Bookmark my words, and pull it up again in two years.

Paul Markham · 06-14-2008, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaker

I have been surfing porn since 1994 Here is my 2 cents from a surfer perspective on why sales sluggish for some sites

A surfers rant...

- I dont care about your fancy design, high end designs makes me cautous. So does bright flashy things. Are you a big company? Why all the hype... just sell me on your content.
- I want to see niche specific content. If I like asian handjobs and your asian handjob site displays content that actually has asian handjobs and your tour flows well and entices me to join (but not too much)...I might join.
- I want to join your asian site but I dont wanna see site access to 30 of your other websites in different niches on the join page. Why dont you suprise me after I join up?, instead of letting me know on the join page? It makes me think the asian sites members area is very small.
- I want to see what I am purchasing, Why not make your members area transparent?. Why would I buy something sight unseen cept for the tour or maybe a clip I saw on the hun?
- Recuring billing makes me nervous. I want to join, jerk and dont want to double check to see that my card wont be charged again. If I want I will rejoin at my convienence.
- I dont have a lot of money and 24.95 if too much for me psycologically, 19.95 is appropriate.
- I want to see unique content and not the same stuff on a lot of sites. How many times can I see the same porn stars? I need fresh faces. If I see bree olson or Gianna micheals on a tour I pretty much will click the close button (my own personal preference here he he)

My two cents

Sorry you're a surfer and member so your opinion does not count. Now if you were an affiliate everyone here would be licking your balls. </sarcasm>

And the above post and my reply tells you why so many members are not buying over and over. We built it to suit ourselves and not the customer. The customer has now decided a Tube site is better value than most paysites. You can't or won't close Tube sites, so you have one option. Make a paysite so much better those who will pay will join. Leave those who won't burning the Tubes BW.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 06-15-2008, 12:21 AM

"1. Something really sick and disgusting is going to happen and will be used by the Feds as an excuse to censor, may be even in a joint effort with the EU. There are already talks. "

Even a adult check to keep minors out of out netorks would be helpful...
I am hoping that some regulation comes via an international effort and I do believe it should be a TLD.

One of the reasons why I backed the .sex extension believing that it might help slow the glut of free porn and unverified adult sites with some regulation. Unfortunatly .sex was all about greed and no effort for real self regulation and at the 11th hour I changed my mind about it as the facts of it were not fair or just for the industry.

If such a thing come forward again I hope that it is wrritten properly and drafted correctly to protect our industry, while keeping minors out.

.Sex could work if the right guys were behind it and the concept was not greed centric.

Paul Markham · 06-15-2008, 12:23 AM

FUCKING ACE POST

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonstills

Porn is said to be recession resistant to a large degree. It has also been said your income is directly proportional to the value you add.

Deductively, the people who's sales are going down are providing less value than they used to. This can be interpreted multiple ways.

1) Other people are providing more value. There is a large degree of truth to the bitching and moaning about tubes sites. However, there isn't anything you can do to make them go away so learn why people like them (really give it some thought and don't just say because it's free). Also, mega sites like videobox are providing so much value even the largest programs can't compete with them. Then there are also the clip4sales with amateur producer content. Just a few things to consider.

I SEE THE WORLD FROM THE PRODUCERS POINT OF VIEW, SO TAKE IT AS THAT VIEW.

This is so true. So many sites are churned out with porn that has no feeling, emotion and true personality today many surfers are asking themselves why pay $30 for a site with 50 scenes that are no better or different than a Tube site? Many sites are full of porn shot by the same person, sometimes a guy who has a years experience or a shooter on a budget that simply does not allow him to shoot decent porn.

Many many top sites buy in content that is massed produced and crap. The surfer sees no value to it because the sponsor put no value on it. He might of asked the shooter to do 5 solo girls sets and videos on a day for $1500. This country was full of shooters shooting low quality porn with shooters and girls going through the motions.

For 8 years I told you content is king and you told me I was wrong. Well the truth is unless you have a site the surfer will sign up to and stay you have to keep sending vast amounts of traffic. Traffic that had decided a Tube site has more to offer.

3) Your offerings grow increasingly out of touch with the demands of consumers. This could be a combination of customer demand changing or simply producers shooting stuff that customers don't care for. I think it's more the latter. How many shooters actually watch porn on a personal level? Shooters are motivated to get more work they are "playing it safe" and have come up with their own rules of what is correct. As a consequence there isn't much variety to all the content out there. Everything is the same.[/QUOTE] Spot on. This side of porn has always looked down on porn, the producer and consumer. Many here think this is an Internet business, it's not it's porn delivered on the Internet.

How many here consume, like, pay for or even understand porn? Very few and this had led to the industry selling to itself and ignoring what the consumer needs. When someone comes in and takes the consumer away from them it's always someone else's fault. If you lose a client it's your fault for not meeting his needs, not the fault of the guy who picked him up. That customer was looking else where.

Paul Markham · 06-15-2008, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjxxx

google => search for "porn" => first result: pornhub.com

Even morons and newbies can find full length scenes today. Why should they pay ?

If you don't know why people should buy, why are you selling?

This post tells you so much about why this business is suffering.

Porn = Fantasy the user can believe in, empathize with and arouse him/her.

I've looked on the tube sites and they're full of scenes of girls faking it with little coming from them. The girl is just a piece of meat because she put no personality into the scene. On top of this is the "comedy" why are they there, what do they like, who are they? So many here say they don't want this, this is people who don't pay for porn and will jerk off to anything dictating the content we sell. Small wonder we produced content not worth buying.

It takes skill to produce porn. It's not something anyone with a camera and a naked girl can do. I told you this for the last 8 years, you told me I was talking nonsense. Now the consumer has spoken.

We made our bed, now we have to lie in it.

Paul Markham · 06-15-2008, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

I've talked to COUNTLESS people who say they hate modern porn. The steroid guy with the huge cock just fucking like a jackhammer on a girl who's faking it, usually the same girl you've seen in 20 other galleries being sold as a teen or an amateur or a "real girlfriend".

Maybe the prices need to come down, or maybe the quality needs to go up. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud here.

And you're thinking is spot on. Mostly we produced porn at a price or shooters who don't have a clue. The result was bland porn that was just like white bread, tasteless but filled you up. You can't charge people $30 for stuff that is not worth $30 year in year out. Eventually they will move over.

If you produce crap porn that's no better than what's on a Tube site why should the surfer pay?

Paul Markham · 06-15-2008, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVF

Well then fuck crying about tubes making you work harder.....Your problem is that your site consists of ONE BBW semi-softcore model who ain't fuckin'......How the hell is a tubesite full of HARDCORE VIDEOS dipping into your income when she is barely licking a dildo?

It ain't rocket science......Who's gonna pay for that shit?.....There isn't even any real visa on that muthafucka....

Absolutely fucking clueless post. And the reason why some are suffering.

BVF for your information not every porn consumer wants to see a girl getting fucked. Tube sites are full of bland porn. Maybe his site Tony's site provides something that's not on a Tube site.

Paul Markham · 06-15-2008, 01:25 AM

So for my last post in this thread, before all the flamers arrive, this is my solution for some.

A) Produce porn the consumer wants to buy. It's that simple and if you don't know how or what then you should not be in the business. Put the same effort into the product as you do the traffic and you will find you need less traffic.

B) Meet the customers needs not your needs more. Some guys want to be in a site for a year, some a month and some 20 minutes. You need to decide who you can aim to sell to and sell to him. If he wants 20 minutes sell him 20 minutes at a price he will pay or lose him Clips4sale does it. If he wants 2 days, sell him 2 days, he will find trials he will cancel the moment he joins if you don't. If he wants 30 days give him a site worth 30 days. Same porn, different shooters, different girls (unless a good solo girl site) it's surprising how many sites are full of the same scenes, repeated time after time and that scene is on other sites time after time.

C) The consumer is a repeat buyer. And not a one off impulse buy. Produce what sells to the man with the money, not what generates traffic and sells to webmasters. Porn is a very disposable product, once bought and used it's usually discarded and the buyer moves on to the next scene. The guy who buys it knows it, understands it and loves it. If you don't how can you sell to him?

Many buyers have been ripped off or disappointed over the years that they are now very hard to sell to. Some of you sent traffic to sites that long term would hurt you. Welcome to the result. I would bet many people looking for porn on Tube sites have bought memberships and now decide they're better off keeping their money in their pocket.

FOOL ME ONCE SHAME ON YOU, FOOL ME TWICE SHAME ON ME.

Now you can all tell me I'm clueless and you guys know it all.

06-11-2008, 02:11 PM	#107
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	I hope COPA does come around again and pass. Free porn is dangerous to all sides. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

06-11-2008, 02:30 PM	#110
Hell House Vic Pay to Cum Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Nor San Diego Posts: 1,029	the whole US is on a down. a big down. luckily porn is international, and resists recessions and depressions well, like alcohol and tobacco. Dennis69 your signature is rediculously HOT. __________________ Contact Me - ICQ: 206851710 eMail vic (at) hellhousemedia (dot) com 'Satanism is like Capitalism for teens' - Ty HellHouse

06-11-2008, 03:08 PM	#114
The Duck Adult Content Provider Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 18,243	For the three years I have been in adult I have a slowly rising revenue stram __________________ Skype Horusmaia ICQ 41555245 Email [email protected]

06-11-2008, 03:38 PM	#117
BSleazy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: USA Posts: 6,721	Why hasn't anyone sued any of these big tube sites with illegal copyrighted movies??? __________________ icq 156131086

06-11-2008, 05:42 PM	#121
CarlosTheGaucho Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 9,512	I assume, even after reading this discussion, what we can see here is a certain state of disorder, to sum it up, there are a couple factors I would examine as crucial: 1) there is more porn than ever on the market competing for the surfer and his credit card, mostly the same "clones" of what turned out to be succesful in 2000/ 01 or so 2) at the same time, it's the first time in the history when surfers have an IMMEDIATE access to free pirated porn, that doesn't require any semi technical skills or even waiting, immedate access to satisfaction with the content, that is totally similar to what most of the marketers are pushing. 3) on the top of that, for the first time, it's not the porn producer, but the consumer, who decides what he wants and what's available, just check all the big old school brands with their high quality product and how many of them bleed. It's the first time when anyone can expose their ass, the definition of porn has changed, the consumers are not dependent on what producers put on the market but they can create even their own thing. 4) the consumer base is educated, and it's more and more consumers that already joined a paysite in the past, the internet in households is spread for say 10 - 12 + years and honestly, raise your hand who never searched for porn on the web.. These consumers are more demanding and know the old tricks. 5) Porn is not a luxury thing, it's a need, and there will be always a demand for that, unless it will be available for free, as far as it's a need, you'll just grab whatever turns you on to get off, the same as if you're hungry you grab a junk food to satisfy your basic need. This is a parallel to the tube porn vs. higher quality paid porn. 6) there is not much variety in the way the paysites are promoted over the years, just it's more promoters and more paysites around than ever, that's why blogs or review sites are still a succesful promotional tool, because they give the surfer a recommendation, a referrence, they amuse him, creating certain loyalty, they have character, instead of trying to grab the surfer for the product trying to amaze him simply with the obvious fact that he is seeing porn he saw already hundred times, as thousands of other sites do. Just tried to do a little summary, feel free to add your thoughts. __________________ CTG Media \| skype: carlosprague \| cb \|at\| ctgmedia \|dot\| net \| Want to make more with your Dating Traffic? \| Read My Educational Series \| Read my Adult Biz Chronicles \| Did your ad revenue drop by 40 pct. or more last year? Last edited by CarlosTheGaucho; 06-11-2008 at 05:45 PM..

06-11-2008, 11:44 AM	#102
aico Moo Moo Cow Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Washington State Posts: 14,748	"Remember when all we had to do was put up a banner, and sales would come?" Ever think that maybe this is because all there was were banners? There was hardly any free content, and those who had it paid a lot for it. No one to blame but ourselves, blame tube sites all you want, but the problem started way before they came around.

06-11-2008, 11:46 AM	#103
RogerV Banned! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,591	soon all the big dogs will launch tube sites and there will be as many online as TGP's end of the day we are giving away our bread and butter. i dont care what anyone says. I'm thinking about launching a free dating site and Tube site very soon if i dont see a change in the biz. as I'm sure everyone else will as well, lets just give everything away free fuck it! the only way we will make big bucks again is if we censor all the free shit no pussy or dick then people will pay and stay longer

06-11-2008, 01:25 PM	#105
cognitos Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 99	This is the law of diminishing returns. If you have a program, being sold by one affiliate, and that affiliate makes 30 sales per day; and you add 20 more affiliates and they all make 5 sales per day, then you add 100 more affiliates, and they all make 2 sales per day. A market goes through a cycle of development, growth, maturity, and then retreat. When you have hundreds of affiliates all promoting the same product, then they can expect a diminishing return. There are a absolute number of surfers, and if all affiliates provide them the same offerings, then you can expect - as more affiliates join the market - that your slice of the pie will shrink. Diversification, I think, is the key to success (the same as any market). If you are caught in the maturity stage in a markets cycle then you can expect your sales to remain constant (not good - unless you are growing you are shrinking), if you are in the retreat stage in the cycle, then you can expect your sales to shrink. The maturity stage should forewarn you of the retreat stage; at which time you must diversify your offering to capture the development and growth cycle of the markets next rotation. Doing any different will spell shrinking $$$.

06-11-2008, 01:28 PM	#106
Persius Tap into MOBILE! Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Hollywood Posts: 11,779	There is no money in porn. end of story

06-11-2008, 02:35 PM	#111
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,409	My sales are still fine.

06-11-2008, 07:01 PM	#123
cognitos Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 99	If you look at things from a surfers point of view -- then the choice between a large MGP and a Tube site is a no-brainer. When a surfer hits a MGP they see a thumb they like, they click it, and get sent to some other site. They see another thumb on this new site, they click it, and get sent to another site, etc. etc. etc. The same surfer goes to a tube site, they see a thumb they like, they click it, they watch it. The surfer is happy! The surfer bookmarks the tube site and never goes back to the MGP. Instead of adadpting and confronting the new reality of the web -- MGPs are carrying on like it is business as usual, whilst they lose their surfers, and their money. The MGP business model is in decline, and has passed it's maturity stage. The tube site has left it's development stage and is now in it's growth stage. As the tubes grow, and the MGP decline -- it is the failure of the MGP to change that is setting them up for continued failure and ultimately obscurity. Here is a chart showing the rise of a medium sized tube site, and the decline of a very large MGP. Remember -- if you are not growing, you are shrinking. Names deleted to save embarrassment / conflict;

06-11-2008, 07:36 PM	#124
munki Do Fun Shit. Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OC Posts: 13,393	I invented failing porn niches... __________________ “I have the simplest tastes. I am always satisfied with the best.” -Oscar Wilde

06-12-2008, 04:40 AM	#127
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	Well I wont block the names... Here... Be sure to sit down guys before seeing this... __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

06-13-2008, 05:40 PM	#132
jollyperv Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 3,927	How about a secret club of old schoolers who pay monthly dues, pool the money and pay russian and filipino kids to constantly bring these pieces of shit offline. It's obvious that they're here to stay and that their bullshit illegal practices can only be combatted by equally dirty and illegal practices.

06-13-2008, 07:04 PM	#135
sysk Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,005	Alexa's Top 100 sites picks: 10. RapidShare 21. YouPorn 30. Redtube.com 32. MiniNova 59. The Pirate Bay 71. Isohunt.com 91. Torrentz.com __________________ icq: 612510168 / email: [email protected] / php ninja 4 hire

06-13-2008, 08:16 PM	#137
Iron Fist Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 23,400	Good discussion and points __________________ i like waffles

06-14-2008, 03:58 AM	#140
potter Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Denver Posts: 6,559	gas prices, inflation, and a poor economy. maybe once we get a dem in office things will be better __________________

06-15-2008, 12:21 AM	#145
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	"1. Something really sick and disgusting is going to happen and will be used by the Feds as an excuse to censor, may be even in a joint effort with the EU. There are already talks. " Even a adult check to keep minors out of out netorks would be helpful... I am hoping that some regulation comes via an international effort and I do believe it should be a TLD. One of the reasons why I backed the .sex extension believing that it might help slow the glut of free porn and unverified adult sites with some regulation. Unfortunatly .sex was all about greed and no effort for real self regulation and at the 11th hour I changed my mind about it as the facts of it were not fair or just for the industry. If such a thing come forward again I hope that it is wrritten properly and drafted correctly to protect our industry, while keeping minors out. .Sex could work if the right guys were behind it and the concept was not greed centric. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

06-15-2008, 01:25 AM	#150
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	So for my last post in this thread, before all the flamers arrive, this is my solution for some. A) Produce porn the consumer wants to buy. It's that simple and if you don't know how or what then you should not be in the business. Put the same effort into the product as you do the traffic and you will find you need less traffic. B) Meet the customers needs not your needs more. Some guys want to be in a site for a year, some a month and some 20 minutes. You need to decide who you can aim to sell to and sell to him. If he wants 20 minutes sell him 20 minutes at a price he will pay or lose him Clips4sale does it. If he wants 2 days, sell him 2 days, he will find trials he will cancel the moment he joins if you don't. If he wants 30 days give him a site worth 30 days. Same porn, different shooters, different girls (unless a good solo girl site) it's surprising how many sites are full of the same scenes, repeated time after time and that scene is on other sites time after time. C) The consumer is a repeat buyer. And not a one off impulse buy. Produce what sells to the man with the money, not what generates traffic and sells to webmasters. Porn is a very disposable product, once bought and used it's usually discarded and the buyer moves on to the next scene. The guy who buys it knows it, understands it and loves it. If you don't how can you sell to him? Many buyers have been ripped off or disappointed over the years that they are now very hard to sell to. Some of you sent traffic to sites that long term would hurt you. Welcome to the result. I would bet many people looking for porn on Tube sites have bought memberships and now decide they're better off keeping their money in their pocket. FOOL ME ONCE SHAME ON YOU, FOOL ME TWICE SHAME ON ME. Now you can all tell me I'm clueless and you guys know it all. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70