Sam Granger

Ouch! This is pretty messed up, wouldnt expect this from a company such as brazzers.

__________________
[img]http://****************/sig/fhv3_j2_624x80_2.gif[/img]
$35-40 Per Signup, 60-70% Rev Share, over 80 Sites, Exclusive Sites, tons of free content
14,000+ Free hosted Galleries, RSS feeds, Domain Hosting, Embedded Flash Movies
Join Fetish Hits now!
ICQ: 358652230

Big_D

i do believe that if tube sites were utilized correctly they could be an asset to both affiliates and programs.

But until tube sites start bringing down full length and overly long content, they will be hurting this industry more than helping it.

Dont give full length vids people, this hurts us all in the long run.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Since it got lost on Page 1...

Just look around at the join pages of the contributory infringement site or even the sites that blatantyl steel content.

CCBILL,Paycom, Netbilling and a few others. They are all there in the middle of it, transacting taking the money and laying low while we all pat them on the back for such a
great job of processing everyone LOL!

The more you know about this industry the more gut wrenching fucked it is because all of you get paid by them and love them to the bitter end of the industry. I expect this thread to die now since this one single valid point has come forward and tells you the absolute fucking truth in broad daylight.

None of you can do anything about it, won't do anything about it and infact can NOT do anything about it. You will step right up to one of these processor's rep's at a convention and say nothing but good things with the secret bro hand shake whikle inside they are laughing thier ass off at you.

So like I said... Spineless gutless pussies...
All of you.

__________________

Robbie

It's not that simple my friend. For guys like you who aren't really in this business you probably think that's how it works. But it doesn't. Most big programs have their own merchant accounts and have no need of CC Bill or Epoch. As far as Netbilling...they are merely a gateway for a person's merchant account.
So if I have my own merchant account and use a gateway...I am pretty much my own billing processor.
That's why I get upset when I hear people ranting and raving about the "industry" and it's "leaders" and blah-blah-blah.
There are a lot of smart people on this forum. You're one. But you're very ignorant of how things are done and how business works.
Billing companies are not leaders and can't do a damn thing to stop anybody except for people who actually use their services.
That isn't the answer. And neither are these threads with people that aren't even in the business rampaging about things they don't understand.
My gut feeling is that the answer is coming. Just like it did with dialers, zango, etc., etc. In the meantime a lot of people will make a money grab.
But trying to pin the blame on some faceless "leaders" that don't exist isn't gonna solve anything. You are simply completely wrong on that.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

pixelwizz

I like it how this industry has been fucking people over since day 1, back in the days it was ron levi fucking the surfer with tripple and quadrupple billings, now that surfers have gotten smarter big programs are fucking each other, well done.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Guess ya do not know shit about Gateways...
There are not many of them, while only a select few have the banking relations necessary to process globally. So you can figure it from there. It comes to those 3 and a few others responsible for transacting contributory infringers.

PS: I been in the the biz since before you were squirting cum onto playboy pages you stole from yer dad. With some teaching from some of the originators of this industry before there was a internet.

__________________

tony286

Well said, I look forward to meeting you at the atl forum.

Robbie

You are funny. You aren't in this business! I'm 46 years old and I really have been doing this a long time. I know most people that are anything...and I don't know you. And I don't know anybody that is a major player that knows you. So please don't make yourself look dumb. I don't think you are dumb...just ignorant of how things work with money. But trying to fantasize that you are some porn mogul definitely makes you look foolish.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

pixelwizz

what a load of shit, you know nothing son

besides, who the fuck are you?

Robbie

I'll actually be in Atlanta tomorrow night at the Courtyard Marriott by the airport. I'm flying out of there on Tuesday to Vegas. Gonna broadcast a live cam show of Claudia-Marie at 8 p.m. out of Atlanta. You guys should get with me and come on over...I stream the cam show from my own server (no 3rd party stuff) and I have my hands full. Could always use an extra set of hands on a camera

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Well you definatly read like an amateur right now...
I am just smarter than you and obviously you do not know alot of people and thats OK.

Ya do not have to know everyone to be great in this biz.
But you certainly goto know how to point a finger where there is a problem.

Lesson 1: Just becauyse you are your own gateway does not mean the gateway you operate can not be decidedly shutdown, your Gateway is supplied...
It is Supplied by Someone...

Now those guys there...
Are the ones I am talking about. Onyl a handful of them on the net that have the banking relations figured. These are not unknown men by anymeans. these are guys that decide who can process what via Gateways or 3rd party processing.

It's not tough.
Or maybe you are all happy you finally got some processing up and think wow what wonderful people! HAha Ass kisser's kill.

__________________

tony286

Mandy cant she has a show but that would be great. I have to step out for a bit. When I get back I will icq you,it will be nice to meet you guys.

NinjaSteve

The question is, who will spend money to try and take down tube sites? What ever happened with the piracy round table in SoCal? I think illegal tube sites are much worse than torrents.

__________________
...

seeric

it wont stop. sad but true.

Robbie

Ok genius...I'll give you some more education since you are so damn intent on completely going down this road in the conversation. The "gateway" isn't gonna shut a damn thing down.
The ONLY thing that shuts you down is THE BANK. Yes, people do lose their merchant accounts.
Now Einstein....sounds good doesn't it. Let's just report them to the banks.
Well guess what? That's already been done.
What happened?
Everybody now has merchant accounts in European banks. Guess the countries?
Now please don't debate this with me anymore. The things you are saying are just completely misinformed. And pissing me off isn't gonna help you to ever actually break into this business.
And me arguing with you isn't gonna make me a dollar either. So just believe me that the idea of going after the processors won't work. OK?
Smarter guys than you and I have already thought of damn near every angle to attack this thing.
So when you sit in front of your computer and suddenly have a light bulb go off and think you're going to post on GFY and call me and every person in this business a bunch of "pussies" ...then please count to ten and take a deep breath.
There is nothing new under the sun Beetlejuice. You're not coming up with brilliant ideas that nobody has thought of yet. I know it's easy to get excited on here and lash out with brash words. But in the end it doesn't mean anything. So just chill a minute and trust me on this.
If I or anybody else thought we could stop tubes and torrents simply by shutting down the money they would already be gone.
I sat at a table right next to some guys at the Amsterdam show last year having lunch while they discussed billing for their fucking tube site with one of the European gateway billers. Oh, you didn't know that there are more than just a "few" of those did you?
Well, there are. And you know what? They don't give a fuck. It's big money.
Yes, if CC Bill is made aware of it they will pull their processing on things of that nature. But a gateway processor isn't responsible for an individuals merchant account. And at that conversation I overheard in Amsterdam, I sat at my table fuming and raging mad as I heard the rep tell these assholes that there would be no problem with the banks about what they were doing.
Does that make sense to you?
Or would you like to insult me some more and keep raving like a madman?

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Bossman

I know the merchant banks we work with in Europe have been tightening up over the last year, and I can only see them do even more in the years to come. However these are located in countries within the EU, so these might not be the same banks they were talking about?

__________________

Bossman

Anyway - while the 3rd party processors and merchant banks have enough consolidated power to make a industry wide move towards an industry organization, then I can not see them do this, because they are too affraid of getting their names included with porn. Sure they will take our business, but they still want to look like "serious" and "responsible" organizations to the outside world.

__________________

Bossman

What I would like to see is content providers offering insurance that their content will NOT be found on every tube sites known to man. I know we have stopped buying content from specific studios/content providers because their content is all over the tubes.

If they can´t make this insurance with their current pricing, then add 5-10% on top of the content, or a recurring (monthyly/yearly) fee, which will go fully to combating piracy of their content. Make reports that show how little the content is spread on the tube sites - it would make me want to buy (sponsors with exclusive content could do something similiar)

__________________

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

"So when you sit in front of your computer and suddenly have a light bulb go off and think you're going to post on GFY and call me and every person in this business a bunch of "pussies""

So what! I said it... You people are pussies. Don;t cry. I know I am right LOL I have no idea what makes you guys want to sit and whine about this shit all the time. The energy is better spent putting something together this is not the first thread full of pussy ass whiners about tubesites. Infact it must be about the 100th thread and still NOTHING is done about them.

Oh shit infact many of you will sit down right next to them and eat... And not say a fucking thing!

You people are disorganised, with a sense of entitlement with complete feebleminded inaction. Your only solution is to take a bong rip and make more banners for the content thieves.

Nothing will be done.
Pardon me for thinking this industry is full of lazy minded people that won't do anything. I just been around to long and know the facts. I love you people I really do but running around and complaining all the time is not going to solve this. Thieves only know two things and that is how to evade getting busted while taking in money and if even 1/2 of you people got together the problem would be put to an end.

Like I said the Banking relations can be stressed, the content providers can be stressed yet here we go again, lets make another thread that proves this industry is full of mother fucking pussies while the thieves go and turn profits at our expense.

Its just another day...

__________________

beta-tester

The idea for content providers to protect their content by limiting it only to certain sites is good. However, nobody can guarantee that that very content won't be found on a tube site. What if the member (legal) of the paysite rips the members area and upload it to tube site, how could you stop and/or control that? You can't limit surfer to use the content only for his satisfaction. Once the content is on his machine he can do whatever he wants with it with no fears.

Also big players like Brazzers and company have their own content production teams so it can't help anyway. They can do whatever they want with that content. The only possible solution that I can think of is the models and their terms under which the content must not be distributed to other sites than the one it's shot for. But again we're going to point one, where the surfer could get that content and do whatever he wants with it...

It's a very very tough issue we're all facing nowadays good. And I don't see lightly future to porn industry. Either we'll do something or let it go and die.... for us mortals.

__________________

My contact:
ICQ: 944-320-46
e-mail: manca {AT} HotFreeSex4All.com

Robbie

Hey, I didn't say I wasn't a pussy...I just said maybe you shouldn't post that we are all pussies. LOL

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Back in the day it used to be pretty point blank and simple, some content providers created content for members sections uses only.

Somehow that got scraped under the rug.

__________________

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

I apologise Rob, these threads get me heated as well.
You are not really a pussy its a figure of speech mano. Just to many of these threads with nothing happening.

I am sorry.

__________________

fris

because money wins over morals anyday

__________________
Since 1999: 69 Adult Industry awards for Best Hosting Company and professional excellence.


WP Stuff

Bossman

If they can´t do it on their own, then thats where the organization will come in, because the content provider will loose business if the content stays on there.

I would think its more easy getting 100 content providers to make an organization going after copyright infringers, because their business is content, then 100 paysite owners whos business is traffic

__________________

spacedog

How Ironic

Brazzer's entire members area can be downloaded from rapidshare, torrents and various other sources.

V_RocKs

It is problems like these that make me want a Republican president.

Why? Because of what Bossman said. The banks are getting tighter because the US is telling them that they can't play with US customers if they can't play nice. This is to thwart piracy and money laundering but the repercussions are trickling down to actually help us.

We are actually riding on the coattails of the assholes that wanted to shut us down.

gideongallery

does the safe harbor provision exist yes it does
that means they do have a right to the material
the purpose of the safe harbor provision is to provide balance to the additional take down notification power the DMCA gave you guys.

want to give up those extra rights and go back to having to spending 100k getting restraining order to get your content taken down, then and only then can you argue the safe harbor provision should not exist.

With out fair use like parody, comentary could be absolutely censored. The fact is and the google case will untimately prove that fair use is currently being censored by the DMCA takedown request. 1000's of people who used copyright materials to generate parodies and commentaries on youtube had their content removed by those take down requests because they did not want to spend the thousands of dollars defending their fair use rights.



i have no sympathy for those who abuse safe harbor provision just like i have no sympathy for those that abuse the DMCA take down request. I however realize that two extremes of abuse are the balance to the law that is necessary to protect the 6 TRILLION dollar fair use economy from abusive DMCA take down requests.

What is sad is whinny webmaster bitching about when in reality the law is so in your favor already.

A DMCA take down request is a 1 page document, you can hire companies to monitor and send them out, you are talking about a very minor per unit cost.

The only way someone who actually has a fair use right to use the content can defend that right is to spend 1000's of dollars defending those rights.

Those in the economy like sony (vcr case), diamond rio (rio case) and youtube (current case) who are makeing money of the fair use economy will defend those rights and therefore extend the right for all of us.



6 Trillion dollars of the use economy is dependent on fair use staying the same as it is, i have business in this economy, some providing those notification services to get rid of the content (software based not video based). I have investments in fair use companies (completely unrelated to tube sites) that are dependent on the fair use economy staying the same.

I tried launching a business under the adbugging.com domain name based on the model described by mark pesce in his "speech piracy is good"
While the content producers (actual content producers not distributors) loved the idea advertisers were not interested because they already got the same branding benefit from product placement.

__________________

“When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve Wozniak

Robbie

gideongallery, I've seen you make this argument over and over. I realize that simple "right and wrong" are of no concern to you.
Have you ever considered that there should be NO balance when someone displays MY content to make money for themselves?
I could care less if you want to download my entire members area and email it to everyone of your best friends.
Have fun.
But when it is on a tube or torrent site that the owner of said site is profiting from the traffic that my content is providing then that is an entirely different proposition.
And for you to insinuate in any way that the "balance" is tipped in my favor is a total fallacy.
I produce the content and incur all of the expenses. Then the government forces me to become a bookkeeper and create a physical filing system of 2257 that they will use to throw me in prison if it isn't followed to every detail.
Then some scumbag comes along and has it on his site with NO 2257 documentation required and no cost of production or man hours incurred.
Then I am supposed to take even more of my time and money to chase it down.
That is not right.
For you to say otherwise is a slap in my face. And when you come on GFY spouting that stuff you are using the paintbrush of disrespect on every person in this business.
It's real simple...right and wrong.
I pay for everything, I'm held accountable by the govt. The tube and torrent site owner makes the money, pays for nothing, and apparently doesn't have to provide any 2257 either.
Yeah, that's fair.
I think I'm gonna close my paysite and just open it up for free and run dating site ads with a prepaid spot.
And oh yeah...just stop shooting anything new.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

gideongallery

and you are missing the point

add product placement, process monetization and you can reduce your cost of production to zero

have a live element and the zero cost product when stolen will give you free advertising if you adbugged the live interaction (like tv shows do for upcomming shows)


would you like to go back to spending 10k to get a restraining order to get your content removed, i am sure you would say no

but if you remove the safe harbor provison my copyright protected right to take your content and overlay the my song parody song " torrent killed the porno star" (sung to the music of video killed the radio star) would be denied. Companies would have no choice but to censor me, and a conditional monopoly would turn into an absolute monopoly
and a censorship tool.

you can hire a company like removeyourcontent.com for 150 a month, have them do all the requests for you while i would have to spend thousands to defend my right AND YOU ARE STILL BITCHING AND WHINING.

Basically the DMCA has replaced 10k per takedown request with 150 / month cost and you are still whining and crying about it not being fair. My God Man up, stop acting like a child and be thankful for the changes in your favor.


if you can't see the benefit in reducing a 10k per takedown to something that now cost you pennies per takedown you should close up your paysite and start a tube site.

__________________

“When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve Wozniak

Robbie

I'm glad you just walked in here and had all these answers. But I hate to tell you that it was very rare that anybody ever spent any money taking down content in the past. There were a couple of big court fights between content companies themselves about 10 years ago. But other than that I've never heard of anybody spending 10k to take shit down.
Back in the day, I would have just motherfucked anybody that had my shit.
Today with tubes and torrents that isn't possible anymore.
You are a person with an agenda. That is all. You're trying to justify theft. Read what I said...it's my HUGE investment and personal security at stake when I shoot content. I could go to PRISON.
The tube guy? The torrent guy? Nope. Just making money off of my work.
That's it. End of story. All your "fair rights" argument is just you saying: you can't create your own content that anybody would want. So you are going to take it and monetize it. I doubt very, very seriously that "fair rights" was ever meant to do what you are espousing.
Enjoy your short money grab while you can. Once it's over...I'll still be making money and have a business.
And you will have moved on to the next bullshit scam loophole to try and make your ill-gotten gains.
I've seen this kind of b.s. in every facet of life.
So no...I NEVER spent any money to get my content taken down in the past. So why should I suddenly be overjoyed to have to hire people to go take down what should NOT be there to begin with from tube and torrent sites who are laughing all the way to the bank?
Keep pushing that agenda on here my friend. Keep saying "fair rights use" over and over and click your heels three times.
A year from now, come back and re-visit this thread.
Something will have to have changed by then. Either you are gonna be on your ass or I will.
And if people like me go "down the tubes" so to speak, then you won't have "fair rights" to use any goddamn thing because there won't be any new stuff being shot for you to steal..
Oh, excuse me. That's right. You're not stealing. You're just excercising "fair rights".
Be sure to stop by later and I'll give you the keys to my car so you can use "fair rights" and I'll be sure to hand you PIN to my bank card. And don't forget to pet my dog, have my kids call you "daddy", and fuck my wife too.
Fair rights.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

gideongallery

well i have my software was posted on sites that let it be downloaded for free
i had copies of my scripts sold for a fraction of the cost i charged, i had to go to court to get the restraining order, isp refused to take the site down until i got that court order.

DMCA has made it a lot easier when the guys in the states, hell with many foreign host respecting it became a hell of a lot cheaper.

what you are saying doesn't make sense so you could wave a magic want and your content would disapper, isp would give up the revenue stream just when you asked, well then you were luckier than most because i never got that lucky

the same technologies that have reduced the cost of producing a tube site have also reduced your distribution cost. The model has changed adapt or die.

whin and bitch all you want the bottom line is you will have to adapt to survive,

luckly all of the survival methods have been developed, tv did it already
they moved to live content, they transformed cost centers into paid product placement and took advantage of process monitization.

do the same thing and you will have no problem surviving, don't and you will fall to the wayside.

IF anything i think it will get worse for you because i think google is going to establish the fair use right of access shifting which will legitimize all the "copyright infringement" on tubes.

__________________

“When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve Wozniak

The Judge

What I would like to know is what is the affiliate program for their free TOON password thing?

__________________

Robbie

Well gideongallery, I guess then I'lll be testing out that Claudia-Marie trademark that I have from the good old government that gives me the only rights to make money in adult with her. We'll just see if trademark and copyright mean anything. Or if you're right and everybody can just steal anything they want. You better hope I'm right or there won't be an adult business left for you to be a parasite on anymore. And as far as waving my magic wand...yes, that's exactly the way it used to work. Everybody knew everybody. Now you and a million other surfers all think you're in the porn business.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

BFT3K

Illegal tube sites prove once and for all that organized crime does NOT control this industry. If they did, the problem would have ended soon after it began. A few "accidents" for tube owners early on would have quickly solved the problem. Maybe a few pissed off players will snap soon, before they are forced to join the unemployment lines...

Kevsh

.. Or open a tube site yourself.

Clearly, that is what is happening. The "If you can't beat 'em ..." train of thought that eventually many fall into when the income starts dropping too much to their liking, or the frustration gets too much.

I've said this before and it's still true:
If, and it's a big if, the major players in the industry all stand up - together (ha ha) or individually - and say 'We WILL not do business with tube sites' nor accept their traffic (as affiliates) or allow our ads on their sites (via ad networks) then it sends a strong message to everyone else: Tube sites = Bad.

When they stay silent, or even worse, do business with them (and even partner in them or start their own), then it sends the opposite message, and gives everyone else an excuse, "Well Company X is advertising on tube sites and they are our competition, so I'm just protecting my business" blah blah.

Basically, it starts at the top.
If the big boys take a firm stand, it will make a difference. Until then, expect more and more companies to jump on the bandwagon.

BFT3K

FUCK TUBE SITES UP THE ASS!

tony286

I think it's different today. The guys before us came up the hardway. They weren't computer nerds who found something to do cool online. They didnt come from middle to upper middle class families and have college degrees.When organized crime made their own copies of Behind The Green Door and were distributing it on the east coast. The Mitchell Brothers showed up to their offices with bats and then sued the shit out of them. I could never see that happening today.

qxm

....your posts would be more readable and would look better if you learned how to use "paragraphs"

__________________

Robbie

No, a real paragraph would start indented. I think what you mean is if I put spaces BETWEEN paragraphs. And you would be right about that. I do sometimes, but when I'm multi-tasking and posting shit in between working on my tgps and paysite I tend to get in a hurry and try to put my point across too quickly. I hope that what I had to say still got out there.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Penny Flame

ddddddaaaaaaaaammmmmmnnnnnnnnn

__________________
Penny Flame
Former Studio Manager
Metro Studios still owes me money

Domain Diva

hey Robbie hows it going Can you give Claudia (www.claudia-marie.com) a quick boob squezze for me please and pass the message l will see her in florida

thanks

Claire XXXX

__________________

justaseller

Can you please post some proof to the allegations..I am too lazy to search.

Thanks

Denny

bump it up

__________________

Evil E

I'll sit here just in case someone decides to have balls... but so far there's pretty much only V_Rocks.


***in wait for a brointervention***

__________________


A girl once told me "Give me 8 inches and make it HURT".

So, I fucked her twice and hit her with a brick.

The Ghost

This thread is all over the place.


Robbie, you're dead on and nice to read your words. For the most part the adult business is fueled by new content production. If that ceases, there is not enough quality content to meet consumer demands. Especially for niche products.


Something is going to give, be it through new technologies to protect and distribute content, government regulation/online adult internet reform or it all just flat out imploding.

__________________
ISLAND DOLLARS
1000's of Exclusive TS scenes / Constant Updates
Best TS Network your surfers will ever join

Tempest

Let's not forget that it appears that they fucked over their content producer...

It's been shown elsewhere that wheras they're charging US customers $2.95 USD for a trial, they're milking europeans $2.95 EURs along with all their cross sells in Euros as well.. And of course this change in billing hasn't been passed along to the affiliates.. Not to mention that their $25 PPS model is one of the lowest in the industry when compared to all the other big boys.

So who are these guys? Anyone have the names of who's behind that company?

Bossman

Juggcash http://www.adultwhoswho.com/browse/b....html?id=01322
Brazzer Traffic Network http://www.adultwhoswho.com/browse/b....html?id=01149

__________________

Tempest

Lackeys... who owns and runs it?

gideongallery

you are doing it again
all of your exclusive rights are restricted by fair use (not withstanding clause) so the government has not givne you the ONLY RIGHT to make money in adult with her. Other people have a right to make money with her, in the fair use distribution, back up providers, format shifting providers, time shifting providers all have a right to make money with her. you have a right to compete in that marketplace, piracy only exists if you refuse to fulfill those rights for everyone (for free) who has them.

it not an all or nothing, your copyright is conditional, wrapped in fair use, likewise fair use is conditional (must meet specific conditions to apply). you still have an exclusive right to distribute for non fair use (ie first sale) distribution. you just have to compete in a fair market for fair use distribution (ie second sale). that the way the law was written when it started.

barrier to entry is dropping. competition is increasing, pricing is comming down, distribution channels are flattening it a bad time for being a distributor.

However it is a great time to be a content producers, IF YOU ARE SMART.

a paysites like yours is both content producer and distributor, increase the content producer side, and decrease the distribution side and you will make way more money

don't and you will get eaten alive.

__________________

“When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve Wozniak