munki

My fat ass needs to get back in shape again, and I've been checking out either Krav Magra training or Brazilian Jiu Jitsu...

Thoughts, experiences, warnings, general threats, and or tacos?

Anyone in OC training anywhere they recommend?

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Isradude

go for Capoeira http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capoeira

it got my brother in crazy shape ...... good luck

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Amit "Isradude"
ICQ - 395509039

TheSenator

http://www.thepitmma.com/home.html

The Pit

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ISeekGirls.com since 2005

WarChild

Forget Krav Magra, really. Do the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

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Vegas Ken

If I was going to start training, I would go for the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.... or beer curls. . one or both

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Skype: vegas_ken

munki

Everyone's been saying do Brazilian over Krav... big reason I'm even thinking about it, originally I was just thinking Krav... but why?

Krav seems functional, and fast to me. Jiu Jitsu admittedly haven't researched much, and would like to here some a vs b's on training.

I previously trained Aikido, and Kenpo/Shito Ryu Karates in my younger years.

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Linguist

Does your brother go to Axe Capoeira?

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315-310

Linguist

If you wanna get in shape, I'd definitely recommend Capoeira. That shit is nuts, made me start eating all healthy and exercising on my own.

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315-310

V_RocKs

If you are fat I must be 600lbs...

Sands

I'm unfamiliar with the curriculum in BJJ, but if you're looking for nice, practical self-defense regimine that's easy to assimilate and incorporates knife-defense and gun-defense, then Krav Maga would be a good option.

WarChild

Gun-defense.

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Antonio

exactly, the only effective way to dodge bullets is to swicth to slow motion, bend backwards, and start waving your arms

Sands

There's a difference between a gun-attack and a gun-threat. You're not likely to survive a gun-attack because, obviously, if the person wants you dead then they're going to stand 10 to 15 feet away from you and shoot you until you stop moving.

A gun-threat, on the other hand, is when an assailant uses a firearm in order to leverage you into giving in to their demands for either valuables, or your body (if they want to kidnap or rape you, or both).

It's this situation that Krav Maga will try to prepare you for... overwhelming and disarming a gun-man that's within range. It's better than a heel-hook.

WarChild

No, trying to disarm somebody holding you at gun point is just a stupid thing to do, period.

If you can see the gun, and you haven't been shot, like you said chances are you can make it out. When it comes down to the choice between handing over your valuables or testing out your "gun-defense", something you've never trained to do in a real situation (how can you?), only an idiot fights back.

Now, not being a woman, I can't speak to rape. I guess I would say in general fight back, but if you're being held with a gun to your head, that's probably not the time.

I've trained most of my life in one martial art or another, and I've been robbed at gunpoint.

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Gabriel

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ICQ#: 142295729

Sands

I certainly will not disagree with you on this point. The safest bet, and any sensible instructor will profusely drive this point home to their students, is that it's better to just give up your valuables and let the attacker leave. There's absolutely no reason to risk a gun-disarm when you can hand over you wallet and be done with the situation. No one gets shot, no one gets killed, and you live another day.

However, there may be a time, as in the rape or kidnapping examples, where you feel that to give in to their demands is utterly unacceptable, and that executing a gun-disarm is your last viable option. This is when Krav Maga training, along with many other scenarios, can come in handy.

RevengeBucks_Monica

I highly recommend brazilian jiu jitsu. I've taken Muay Thai, boxing, kickboxing and jiu jitsu, and it was my absolute favorite. Any good trainer will ensure you get a good cardio warmup before the training starts, which will help you to lose weight, and then the actual training should totally wipe you out. Wrestling is so bloody fun, it's ridiculous. I'm still upset that I have no good gym nearby anymore. The only one I have access to doesn't know how to handle having only one female around who wants to wrestle with the boys.

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Anthony

Munki,

Braizllian Jiu Jitsu, enough said. Warchild and I about 4/5 years ago went round and round about BJJ vs other martial arts, he started training in it and now is probably more of BJJ zealot than I am.

Krav Maga probably at one point was worth it, but it's the new Tae Kwon Do. People get certified in it after a weeks class to "teach" it and have never even used it in any capacity originally intended. When you hear, "Our stuff works in the street, not in the cage", you are learning shit.

MMA is the closest to real world application of a fighting style within a rules set. If it doesn't work there, it's most likely not going to work in the real world.

Don't believe the hype of gun disarms, knifes, multiple attackers, etc. It's all bullshit, and will likely get you killed faster than anything else. With those sceanarios there are two things you do.

1. Don't put yourself in that situation
2. Run

Anyways, http://bullshido.com for what works and what doesn't.

The added bonus if you train BJJ is at any major show you will have at least 2 BJJ Blue blets, one Brown and Blackbelt you can train with. There are also a few Purple Belts, but I never see them at shows, (cough, Senator).

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Sands

1) Saying that a combat system that doesn't work with an MMA ruleset won't work in the real world seems to be a cop-out. The mere fact that there are rules undercuts much of any claim of the practicality of those practiced arts in the "streets".

2) I do agree with you in that Krav Maga, with an increased popularity, has attracted many "I took a three-week certification course and am now opening a Krav Maga McDojo" instructors. However, I'm sure that if Munki does a little bit of research into the instructor of his respective academy, he'll be able to determine if said instructor is the "real deal", just as he would with a BJJ instructor.

3) You're not always able to dictate the circumstances you find yourself in. Runnig is always good, but sometimes you can't run. Gi chokes won't help you in those situations.

Honestly, I'm not trying to put down BJJ, but when you say that BJJ's gravity is greater than Krav Maga's because of it's excellent utility in MMA matches, then I have a bone to pick. Krav Maga was developed for, and has been nurtured by combat. Actual, "holy shit this Arab dude is trying to knife me" combat. "I'm going to push my thumbs into this assailant's eyeballs" combat. Now, you and WarChild might be more sport-oriented in your martial training, and if Munki is looking for more sport than anything else, then BJJ would probably be a good choice for him.

But I do agree with your one of your last statements: "don't believe the hype." Munki, you should check out _both_ arts, and both academies. They should allow you to take an introductory class, and you should even ask to sit in on the advanced classes so you can see what's in store for you as you progress in each art. Ultimately, this will be the best way for you to pick one, and who knows... you might even opt to join both!

Respect.

Matyko

Krav Maga is "invented" by a hungarian man I've heard nice thing about it. But I admit I know very few of the martial arts. I only juggle...

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Big_D

i fight for my right to party (-:

RevengeBucks_Monica

I think all the discussions that occur over whether one art is better than another is weird. Every art is different and comes with various pros and cons. However, if you're looking for good exercise, you want to pick a class that comes with a decent workout. I would visit whatever class you are planning on attending and see what it's like. Most places will let you visit for free and take at least one class before making your decision.

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yahoo-xxx-girls.com

Well... you could get a pet dog... and walk it... or perhaps let it walk you... or perhaps you could always chaise after parked cars...

Anthony

If a fighting style (Krav Maga) does not work in an enviroment with a fully resisting opponent with rules (MMA), how does it exactly work in an enviroment where there are no rules?

Just because in MMA I can't poke you in the eyes, grab your balls, kick you in the knee doesn't mean that in a self defense situation I won't. I have the training, and have used it against a fully resisting opponent in every class I take in BJJ sparring. When I have dominant position, I can do whatever I want. You keep practicing those eye pokes, and I'll keep sparring against partners as good or better than me to prepare me for the "streets".

What is the real deal Krav Maga? Someone who's actually "Killed" someone with it?

Gi chokes? That's a laugh. I'd rather rely on Gi Chokes than the Submachine Disarms Krav Maga "teaches".

Seriously, Gi chokes?




RBSD. Reality Based Self Defense. Biggest bounch of LARPers Live Action Role Players out there. How many eyeballs have you poked out? How many real knife disarms have you done? How many people have you killed?

Let me put this so you understand it. You are living in La La Land if you think you can disarm me armed with a gun or knife. Combat is chaotic, Krav Maga and RBSD attempt to teach you a response based on an action. If someone points a gun at me like this, I will twist their wrist like this. Sorry, real life doesn't work that way. The best self defense is not being there, or running. 9 times out of 10, you can do that, easily. Self awareness, and common sense are the best self defense you can have. No Krav Maga poke your eyeballs out while someone is stabbing you can come even close.

For one on one fighting, excercise, and anything else, BJJ is greater than Krav Maga any day. Krav Maga INTEGRATED BJJ into it's curriculum, NOT the other way round.

I'm more of a pragmatist. Sure go visit them both. Your type of personality ultimately will make the decision. It takes work and dedication to get better at BJJ. Blue Belt level is generally 2 years min. Which only means you know the basics.

I would put money that a 6 Month BJJ White Belt would beat the living crap out of a 6 month Krav Maga student with equal time spent training. Or for any amount of time training.

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Sands

"If a fighting style (Krav Maga) does not work in an enviroment with a fully resisting opponent with rules (MMA), how does it exactly work in an enviroment where there are no rules?"

If rules place restrictions on what you can do... restricts you from exercising the full range of "tools" you're given by what you study, then certainly it will be more effective when not restricted. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question... I am very tired and haven't had much sleep, but the answer seems obvious.

"What is the real deal Krav Maga? Someone who's actually "Killed" someone with it? "

Exactly! No, just kidding. Personally, I believe "real" Krav Maga is a curriculum that's passed from an IDF or ex-IDF instructor. This includes being taught by a student of an IDF or ex-IDF instructor. A lineage of sorts, just as I'm sure in BJJ circles learning from an instructor who learned from Helio Gracie can be considered learning "real" BJJ.

"Gi chokes? That's a laugh. I'd rather rely on Gi Chokes than the Submachine Disarms Krav Maga "teaches".

Seriously, Gi chokes?"

The gi chokes was a joke. I'm glad you found it funny.

"RBSD. Reality Based Self Defense. Biggest bounch of LARPers Live Action Role Players out there. How many eyeballs have you poked out? How many real knife disarms have you done? How many people have you killed? "

Sorry, haven't poked any eyeballs out, never disarmed any knives, and I don't think "killing them with kindness" counts insofar as a personal body count. Have you ever poked out eyeballs, or disarmed a knife-wielding assailant with BJJ? Any lives extinguished from blood chokes?

"Let me put this so you understand it. You are living in La La Land if you think you can disarm me armed with a gun or knife. Combat is chaotic, Krav Maga and RBSD attempt to teach you a response based on an action. If someone points a gun at me like this, I will twist their wrist like this. Sorry, real life doesn't work that way. The best self defense is not being there, or running. 9 times out of 10, you can do that, easily. Self awareness, and common sense are the best self defense you can have. No Krav Maga poke your eyeballs out while someone is stabbing you can come even close."

Conversely, I could say that you're living in La La Land if you think you can't be disarmed. Sure combat is chaotic, sure Krav Maga teaches you to respond based on an action. Would you rather they teach you to not respond based on an action, or respond with no action, or produce no responses from no actions? Martial arts, in general, is procedural, but if you think that a free-flowing thought process and calculation is restricted to BJJ, then you're mistaken.

Of course the best defense is not being there, or running. Krav Maga, good instructors, will teach situational awareness, and in drills they practice quickly neutralizing your assailant and then running away. Common sense is always the best defense... but is BJJ more powerful than common sense? If not, then this isn't a legitimate criticism of Krav Maga since what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

"For one on one fighting, excercise, and anything else, BJJ is greater than Krav Maga any day. Krav Maga INTEGRATED BJJ into it's curriculum, NOT the other way round."

All the more reason to take Krav Maga

"I'm more of a pragmatist. Sure go visit them both. Your type of personality ultimately will make the decision. It takes work and dedication to get better at BJJ. Blue Belt level is generally 2 years min. Which only means you know the basics."

Agreed. It takes lots of time and practice to get good at anything, and I suspect that this holds moreso for BJJ since there are many intricacies of the art. In this same right, though, this is why I would prefer Krav Maga... it's not difficult to learn and can be quickly assimilated.

"I would put money that a 6 Month BJJ White Belt would beat the living crap out of a 6 month Krav Maga student with equal time spent training. Or for any amount of time training."

Speculation. Regardless, you bring some very valid points, and it serves as food for thought... certainly for myself, and hopefully for Munki as well.

Anthony

Thank you Sands for giving an excellent viewpoint for Krav Maga for Munki to digest.

I would like to end my part of the discussion by showing video proof that even Mother Nature and Bears think Brazillian Jiu Jitsu is the shit.

The concensus is that the smaller bear is at least a blue belt in BJJ and the larger bear, a blackbelt in Judo. Notice how the bigger bear threw the smaller one on it's back, where the smaller bear kept the larger one in it's butterfly guard, loosing the guard when the bigger bear shit itself, and then the smaller one recovering guard to bring it back up to it's feet. Proof that BJJ will work for a smaller fighter against a larger, stronger opponent.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=N7vvkloC-Ac

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Sands

Awesome.

Thanks for the conversation, Anthony, and I too will bow out. After I move at the end of this month, maybe there will be a local BJJ studio. I missed the opportunity to enroll at Serra's place here on the island, unfortunately. We'll see

munki

Thanks for the great discussion and incredible consideration points guys...

Main concerns on the table for me...

a. health... I Need to get into better shape... for no other reason than the bug is biting me to do it, and do it right again.

b. self defense/confidence... never really been worried about these sits... you either have the balls to pull the trigger, or you don't. If you don't and I can see your piece, your already in trouble, otherwise situation handles itself.

c. fun... probably most important... sparring, training, friends, good company, kill some built up aggression... etc. etc. etc. VERY IMPORTANT. lol

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