shahab6

Who will come out as winner.

No Nuke

Antonio

the Russian army is the best in the World! Not the best organized or the best equiped but it has one excellent quality - it always wins!!!!!

from Napoleon to Hitler, the Russians proved it over and over again that they kick ass

DWB

Except for when they had their asses handed to them in Afghanistan.

papill0n

Russia without a doubt.

just a punk

You know nothing about Afghanistan. Soviet Union lost just a few thousands soldiers there during a whole war. Afghanistan lost more that 1 million. So there should be no question who's asses were handed.

The Soviet Union moved its army form Afghanistan because Gorbachev wanted to show a gesture of a good will to the western countries, the same as with breaking the Berlin Wall. We all thought the new time has came and the cold war is in past.

BTW, if Soviet Army wasn't withdrawn from Afghanistan by Gorbachev, the NY Twins will remain unhurt and there will be no 9/11. Sad but true.

As about the thread tittle - it looks like a total BS. Russia won't fight against Iran. So the question should be corrected:

Iran vs the USA - who will come out as winner? No Nuke

Your thoughts?

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HomerSimpson

Russia may not have the best army, but has fuckin' coldest country.
That's the reason it can't be conquered and that nobody could do such thing as conquer whole Russia.

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just a punk

Not colder than Canada or Finland for example. On the other hand Caucasus is not cold at all and it was always considered as a motherland of very good warriors (excepting Armenia and Georgia - they never were good at war so they asked Russia to protect them from Turkey). As far as you know, the Tsarist Russia was able to do the both: protect Armenians and Georgians from Turkey genocide and take a control on Caucasus. So there is no relation with a climate

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SpicyM

Iran VS Russia?

what is this bullshit?? Russia supported Iran and they still do so why would they fight??

SpicyM

who told you this? Bin Laden personally?

oh so there there are no terrorist other then in Afghanistan right?

The twin attacks have nothing to do with war in Afghanistan.

You forgot that USA was supporting Afghan soldiers with new surface-to-air missiles (Stinger) to destroy Russian helicopters?

Times change thats it!

slavdogg

Between December 25, 1979 and February 15, 1989 a total of 620,000 soldiers served with the forces in Afghanistan (though there were only 80,000-104,000 force at one time ), 525,000 in the Army, 90,000 with border troops and other KGB sub-units, 5,000 in independent formations of MVD Internal Troops and police. A further 21,000 personnel were with the Soviet troop contingent over the same period doing various white collar or manual jobs.

The total irrecoverable personnel losses of the Soviet Armed Forces, frontier and internal security troops came to 14,453. Soviet Army formations, units and HQ elements lost 13,833, KGB sub-units lost 572, MVD formations lost 28 and other ministries and departments lost 20 men. During this period 417 servicemen were missing in action or taken prisoner; 119 of these were later freed, of whom 97 returned to the USSR and 22 went to other countries.

There were 469,685 sick and wounded, of whom 53,753 or 11.44 percent, were wounded, injured or sustained concussion and 415,932 (88.56 percent) fell sick. A high proportion of casualties were those who fell ill. This was because of local climatic and sanitary conditions, which were such that acute infections spread rapidly among the troops. There were 115,308 cases of infectious hepatitis, 31,080 of typhoid fever and 140,665 of other diseases. Of the 11,654 who were discharged from the army after being wounded, maimed or contracting serious diseases, 92 percent, or 10,751 men were left disabled.[56]

After the war ended, the Soviet Union were published figures of dead Soviet soldiers: Total - 13 836 people, on average - 1 537 people a year. According to updated figures, all in the war Soviet army lost 14 427, the KGB - 576, MIA - 28 people dead and missing

Material losses were as follows:

* 118 aircraft
* 333 helicopters
* 147 tanks
* 1,314 IFV/APCs
* 433 artillery guns and mortars
* 1,138 radio sets and command vehicles
* 510 engineering vehicles
* 11,369 trucks and petrol tankers

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just a punk

Is that really essential?

You've just answered you your own question. Please re-read your last sentence above. What should I explain if you already said it all?

Nope it was an expected consequence. We have a good saying here: "Never raise a snake"

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just a punk

Yes it is. And more than 1 million of Afghan soldiers on the other side. BTW 1537 people a year is much less than Russia loses in result of car accidents.

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SpicyM

Your logic is like: Bin Laden wanted to attack USA because they helped them in Afghanistan..

I know what you mean.. but hoping that USA would be supporting Afghanistan for ages till now and that would save them from 9/11 is crazy... They attacked because of their belief!

"if Soviet Army wasn't withdrawn from Afghanistan by Gorbachev, the NY Twins will remain unhurt and there will be no 9/11"

that was around 25 years ago.. and that would not stop the attacks anyway.. if it was no Bin Laden.. it would be any other idiot from Pakistan, Lybia or Algeria..

btw, USA supported Hussein as well in Iran war.. yet they hanged him later!

TIMES CHANGE BUT POLITICS REMAIN THE SAME

dj pussy

iran:

Fauxtography: Iran touts military power with photos of ? model airplanes

I can?t find the photo gallery on the Foreign Ministry website, but they have been known to dabble in this sort of thing. A Mossad officer quoted in the Time piece I linked earlier called them a ?paper tiger?; who could have guessed that that was literally true? Or is this all an elaborate ruse to convince western spooks that their capabilities are more primitive than they actually are? Honestly ? model airplanes on a government website

fox news video


Nuke? they don't have it and they will never have it.

just a punk

No, you still can't see a real reason. Bin Laden and his organization were CAI projects. The USA were ready to support any scum which is against Soviets. They thought that even a Hitler can be a friend in case if he helps to fight against their enemy. That was a serious mistake, because such type of people like Bin Laden are uncontrollable and they will stick a knife into you back in any time. I have no idea why the CIA guys were so blind, but the USA paid a very big price for such a mistake.

Take a look at the situation in Georgia. The USA support Saakashvili - a person who don't shy to state that he wants to be as great as Stalin and Beria (read the interview of his wife to a Dutch magazine). Saakashvili is not just a Stalins/Berias wannabe, he also made heroes from Georgian Waffen SS troops who were fighting against Soviet Union and killing Jwes in Georgia during WWII. Recently the same person has started a real genocide against South Ossetians - his regular army used "Grads" to burn Tshinvali. Don't the US government know about that? Don't make me laugh - of course they know it much better than you or me! But they still continue supporting him and calling his Nazi regime as a true freedom and democracy on Caucasus. That's like a nonsense, right?

Isn't that enough to show you that the US government can't learn? Will you be surprised if Saakashvili will do something similar like Osama did when he will leave his president chair? Seems you will be...

You didn't get it. But ok, there is no problem with that. Personally I was sure that Taliban will turn against the USA sooner or later and I was right. So I know my assumption was right. Course I was not able to predict how and when they'll do that, but I was 100% sure there will be terrorist action against the USA or their allies.

The CIA think they are using and 100% controlling some persons like Osama Bin Laden and Saakashvili whey doing a big mistake, because they don't use them. They are being used by them! They will be your allies until you support them and help them to reach their own needs (gaining control on Afghanistan for Bin Laden or gaining control on South Ossetia and Abkhazia for Saakashvili). As soon as they get all they need, they turn back against you because they are liars and they are hard-edged dictators.

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AdultMovies.bz

Russia would win hands down

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Vendot

Well said.... Iran is a MAJOR ally of Russia and guess what, so is a large part of the middle east.

just a punk

Actually it's not an ally (of you just have no idea what ally is). But Iran is very significant business partner for Russia. There is a big money in joint energetic-related projects.

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spacedog

Apparently you know little about history.

Finland slaughtered Russia during The Winter War 1939.

Finland had 250,000 men, 30 tanks, 130 aircraft
Russia had 1,000,000 men, 6,541 tanks, 3,800 aircraft

Finland captured 2,268+ Russian tanks, and lost none of their own.

just a punk

Apparently your knowledge of history is not good as well.

That was a Soviet but not Russian army. I want to underscore this. The results of that war were really shameful for the USSR and there was a SERIOUS reason for that: the Soviet army was totally behead, because Stalin has killed almost all the army commanders (especially high officers) during 1933-1936. In a few words there were no experienced officers to command the Soviet soldiers during well known war against Finland.

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theharvman

All bets on Russia!

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spacedog

I'm accustomed to referring to Soviet/USSR as Russian, but you're correct..

I'm very into this particular war as well as all the battles in Stalingrad. I collect Finnish and Soviet militaria so couldn't resist mentioning Finland

just a punk

In total within 1926-1939 the Soviet Union has lost 7-13 millions of people (some experts say even 20 millions). The main injury was done to the Soviet officers and the high military command. You don't have to be a genius to understand that after these "cleanings" the Soviet Army was totally destroyed. Only the results of Finland war made Stalin think on what he did, but it was too late, so 1941-1942 were also extremely unsuccessful for the Soviet Army because it took too much time to rise new officers and commanders.

For all the times, Russian army was a best friend to a Russian people, but only once one fucking Georgian scumbag broke that friendship - he has destroyed our army and pushed it to many-many years back. This never happened before Stalin and will never happen again.

I can't blame the Soviet Army for these big loses during Finland war, as well as I can't blame it for two first years of anti-Nazi war, because I know why that was happened.

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crockett

Then some simple dudes in robes who lived in mud huts kicked their asses in Afhgan..

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Stephen McTowelie

LOL was going to mention Finland handing the Soviets their asses too but you got there first !
the other thing is I dont get all this bs about trying to make out the west is lying and that Iran isn't a threat etc.
The simple fact is yes the Iranians couldn't fight a conventional war,but have there own private armies of terrorist i.e Hizzbolllalalalala's and are developing nukes !

Just ask Israel its pretty easy to pretend to be build a reactor for civil use when in fact your making weapons.

So whats the difference between Israel and Iran having weapons ? Well thats simple one of them is a democracy and the other is theocracy/dictatorship and all that ball about iran not having nukes for religious reasons is absolute crap !

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_Richard_

see = afghanistan

tranza

Lol, I think you need to read some history books.

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shahab6

YEA BUT Afghanistan won the war

bbm

Russian army was not alone. There were no Russian army in WW2. It was soviet army, 15 country's, and Russia one of 15'th.

Phil

they took over the country very easy, it was the gorilla war that they couldn't beat.
not that US has its handles on them right now. and they are NOT being supplied with top of the art weapons like US was "helping" them out back in 80's..

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Phil

how so?

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Fatdog

Russia for sure.

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Libertine

And what about Russia getting its ass kicked by Japan a few decades earlier, in the war of '04-'05?

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NickB.

i dont even wanna think about china's power and amounts of people

I think we'd all be suprized when they open up a Can Of Shit

juz

neither is yours, you have a very twisted and simplistic view of the world mot likely a result from growing under a totalitarian regime with no freedom of the press.


I hope you're kidding

Phil

no.. Im now.
Who won the Vietnam war or Iraq war?
US troops will have to leave sooner or later.

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klinton

simple... afghanistan was the same economic disaster for russia as vietnam for usa

Vendot

Well to be fair, you are right they have huge business ties........ however, I believe that Iran and Russia are covert allies.

pocketkangaroo

And the war helped bankrupt the Soviet Union and lead to the collapse of it. You don't always measure winning a war in total casualties. Otherwise, America would have lost the Revolutionary War by your thinking.

That's a total fabrication. They moved out because the war was extremely unpopular in the country. It was taxing the country's resources and bankrupting them. The Geneva Accords was a way of saving face. There was no way the Soviet Union could maintain their presence there.

I understand that you have to toe the government line or face the consequences. I also know you don't exactly have a free press in your country. But you are going a tad far on the revisionist history.

Odin

They didn't run an efficient campaign throughout the entirety of WWII, not just the first two years. The Soviet army, like the Soviet ideology relied on the lowest common denominator to make it (kind) of work. Russia will not be a power again and time soon.

teomaxxx

Yeah, small little idot from georgian village took power and destroyed russian army just by random chance. and it wasnt russian fault.
Your view on history shows more where are you coming from, then about reality back then.



Your view of history is the same like US people arguing here that Iraq war was good and for a reason.

shahab6

they were never able to accomplish their goals in Afghanistan, their purpose was to turn it into a communist nation. They were able to resist that, which cause Russia finally to quit the war.

Anyway I recommend you guys to take the war class from your local college. I took it a few months ago and it was very interesting

tiger

LOL, I thought this thread was going to be about the Olympics.

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just a punk

You know, these little village idiots are ruling the world. Stalin was just one of them. What's about Hitler, Mao, Kim Ir Sen or Bush? Aren't they small village idiots that change the world? Do you mean that all Germans are responsible for Hitler, or the US people are that stupid if they have elected Bush 2 times in a raw? At least Bush was elected. On the other hand, the Soviet people were unable to elect their leader. Think about it

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