TopBucks raising their minimum Epass payouts to $200 - Anyone else concerned??? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

webmasterchecks · 08-19-2008, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob

Exactly, fighting fraud by delaying payouts for new affiliates makes sense, but raising minimum payouts for all affiliates serves only one goal: earning interest.

true, thinking about it they also could be using this as a method to discourage the use of epassporte compared to other payment types, that could be a strategy as well to encourage the other stuff

TheDoc · 08-19-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teentime

You are foolish and arrogant to assume people around you are slow.
Your reply has no basis in logic or in reality.

To think that major credit card processors need 7 or more days to catch fraudulent transactions is complete ridiculous.
If it took them seven days to catch up with the fraud they would all be broke and shut down exactly one week ago.

You obviously have no idea how vast, intricate and efficient the global credit card system is.

Once again, quadrupling the minimum payout is not a fraud reduction measure.

Huh? They don't need seven days, they need more sales, that's is why they are doing this.

I have owned/ran affiliate programs for 10 years. I know what fraud is.

The global cc system catches stolen cards, not generated cc fraud. That's the processor and programs job.

Manowar · 08-19-2008, 12:43 PM

think this kind of fraud happened to naughty america and they also raised their payout recently

http://www.businessvoyeur.com/2008-0...ops-epassporte

probs the same people affecting them

Allison · 08-19-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranza

Ok, I'm done arguing. It's clear that some people care about this, while others don't care at all.

Personally, I haven't been affected yet. But I do think that such changes may have been done because of financial problems, otherwise they could implement this to new webmasters only. And that scares me, since I like TopBucks.

Doc: I'm not calling out Topbucks, I clearly stated that I was concerned and asked what people thought about it.

Beemk: recently a HUGE AVS program did this, and a lot of webmasters lost a lot of money. You can search GFY if you want, this thread is not about them.

To clarify, the reason we did not only apply this to new webmasters is due to the fact that Topbucks has over 50,000 open webmaster accounts and webmaster fraud is ocurring from both new and old accounts. If there is any specific webmaster we have had established relationships with getting paid by epassporte who does not hit the minimum, we are happy to work with those situations on a case by case basis.

~Alli

polish_aristocrat · 08-19-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allison

To clarify, the reason we did not only apply this to new webmasters is due to the fact that Topbucks has over 50,000 open webmaster accounts and webmaster fraud is ocurring from both new and old accounts. If there is any specific webmaster we have had established relationships with getting paid by epassporte who does not hit the minimum, we are happy to work with those situations on a case by case basis.

~Alli

is changing the wire minimum from $2k to $1k possible?
just curious...

teentime · 08-19-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Huh? They don't need seven days, they need more sales, that's is why they are doing this.

I have owned/ran affiliate programs for 10 years. I know what fraud is.

The global cc system catches stolen cards, not generated cc fraud. That's the processor and programs job.

This is not correct.

Snake Doctor · 08-19-2008, 01:13 PM

I think it's hilarious that the people who don't make $200 every two weeks consider themselves experts on the credit card fraud big programs have to deal with.

12clicks · 08-19-2008, 01:21 PM

I started reading this thread and my eyes started bleeding from the stupidity.

TheDoc · 08-19-2008, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teentime

This is not correct.

You are correct, I have never owned an affiliate program, they don't need to track sales for fraud, and visa/mc control all fraud for everyone.

Wow - you nailed it all on the head in one shot!

teentime · 08-19-2008, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

I think it's hilarious that the people who don't make $200 every two weeks consider themselves experts on the credit card fraud big programs have to deal with.

More assumptions.

Topbucks or any other program can raise their payouts to whatever they choose.
The argument is not about the change in minimum payout.
The argument is about saying it will reduce fraud.
There is enough bullshit in this industry without adding another myth to the pile.

Allison · 08-19-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teentime

More assumptions.

Topbucks or any other program can raise their payouts to whatever they choose.
The argument is not about the change in minimum payout.
The argument is about saying it will reduce fraud.
There is enough bullshit in this industry without adding another myth to the pile.

Let's clarify the statements:
The epassporte minimum was moved to $200 in order to discourage the use of epassporte which is the preferred payment method of fraudulent webmasters.
It will also allow more data to catch fraud from webmasters using epassporte as payment in a more timely fashion.

We operate multiple programs and there has been a tremendous increase in fraud attempts going on over the past 6 to 9 months and more methods to cover up the fraud. This is not unique to TopBucks and the fraudulent webmasters ultimately cost the legitimate webmasters as well as the programs. Many programs do not offer epassporte, delay payments by 30 days or more, or have much higher default minimums. The choice at TopBucks to raise the minimums puts us in line with most programs and is within reason.

Again, as mentioned before, we are and have always been willing to work with reputable webmasters on their specific needs and can be contacted to discuss.

~Alli

kristin · 08-19-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teentime

More assumptions.

Topbucks or any other program can raise their payouts to whatever they choose.
The argument is not about the change in minimum payout.
The argument is about saying it will reduce fraud.
There is enough bullshit in this industry without adding another myth to the pile.

Yes it does reduce fraud. I do a lot of fraud checking for our programs and I have to say I have seen a huge increase in fraud. All want to be paid via ePassporte and live in the United States.

It's easier to spot as some are getting dumb, but there are still some good frauders out there. When we are running five programs and have ten of thousands of webmasters it takes a little bit more time to comb through all the data and pick out the bad ones.

Unfortunately, many of the scammers and frauders are hurting the good webmasters. If we pulled together as a community more, we may be able to crack down on fraud all around.

With that, TopBucks has been around 8+ years, we work and have worked with our webmasters to get them what they need. If a webmaster with a reputable history hits us up and asks for their account to be put back down to a lower minimum, we wouldn't deny it.

The programs are always the first to get bitched at when we try and implement things that cover our asses because we still have to make the webmasters happy. So work with us people, we aren't asking for the moon, we are just trying to reduce our fraud while still keeping our GOOD webmasters happy.

Hit up anyone from the team if you have questions or want further clarification. We want to work with the good webmasters and always have. We won't bite, promise. : )

12clicks · 08-19-2008, 01:58 PM

fraudulent webmasters can make a ton of money by doing one join a month from 50 different programs.
200 minimum gives you more join data to discover them. anyone saying otherwise should not speak in this thread. period.

Klen · 08-19-2008, 02:01 PM

I think you should allow 50$ minimum payout for webmasters who send sales for a while a leave that 200$ minimum to new webmasters only.

Allison · 08-19-2008, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

I think you should allow 50$ minimum payout for webmasters who send sales for a while a leave that 200$ minimum to new webmasters only.

That's a great suggestion. Unfortunately, our payout infrastructure doesn't support changing minimums automatically based on how long someone sends and doesn't take into account webmasters who use multiple accounts so this is why we offer dealing with each webmaster on an individual and case by case basis. For many webmasters this has no impact or no significant impact, and it's easier to deal with those who are impacted on a case by case basis.

~Alli

jscott · 08-19-2008, 03:00 PM

I hate it when sponsors raise payout minimums to over $50-100

andrej_NDC · 08-19-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonio

it's way too simple - if I owe you $1 million and pay you on the 1 of March instead of 1st of January I'll make $10 000 in terest if I have the money in a bank (6% yearly interest for the sake of this argument)

In fantasy world maybe, the real one is more complex.

VeriSexy · 08-19-2008, 04:17 PM

Not worried at all... looks to be trying to prevent fraud

cherrylula · 08-19-2008, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I would think you should be happy as piss that they kept epass when all the other programs are dropping them.

say what?? all the other programs?? I have heard nothing of this...?

signupdamnit · 08-19-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranza

Ok, you guys are telling me that a raise from $50 payouts to $200, plus delays don't concern you at all?????

A lot of the people who respond that it is no big deal have their own affiliate programs and are likely considering the same thing.

Of course these things are cause for concern to an affiliate. All i can say is that I have really been pushing ccbill lately. 50 sponsors with $200 minimums just will not work for me. But by all means, do run your business as you see fit. But do nto expect me to drink the kool-aid!

signupdamnit · 08-19-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

fraudulent webmasters can make a ton of money by doing one join a month from 50 different programs.
200 minimum gives you more join data to discover them. anyone saying otherwise should not speak in this thread. period.

This might be so.....but those of us with accounts since 2000 shouldn't be much of a concern. They could have easily just applied this to new affiliates.

I don't believe by any means that this sort of thing is all about stopping fraud one bit.

Funny how so many are trying it at once....

TheDoc · 08-19-2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherrylula

say what?? all the other programs?? I have heard nothing of this...?

read above..

TheDoc · 08-19-2008, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

This might be so.....but those of us with accounts since 2000 shouldn't be much of a concern. They could have easily just applied this to new affiliates.

I don't believe by any means that this sort of thing is all about stopping fraud one bit.

Funny how so many are trying it at once....

You could read what the president of TB wrote above, and other reps. They said "contact them if you need it lowered"... And that the fact they use truestats, it's now understandable why they couldn't make it so some accounts could and couldn't do it.

Any more non program owners wish to tell us program owners that fraud isn't an issue?

nekrom · 08-19-2008, 06:12 PM

Affiliates should be greatfull that they have great programs to promote. If you don't like it bugger off and promote another program.

-N

suesheboy · 08-19-2008, 06:56 PM

drop them like a hot potato

Black_Widow · 08-19-2008, 07:02 PM

70% of webmasters will never reach that minimum. I have some money with Vivid from my Kardashian sites that never worked for me. I don’t think I’ll ever see that money.

After Shock Media · 08-19-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black_Widow

70% of webmasters will never reach that minimum. I have some money with Vivid from my Kardashian sites that never worked for me. I don?t think I?ll ever see that money.

Have you emailed them, said it just is not working out and you would like to get paid out and have your account closed?
Ussually that always works.

TheDoc · 08-19-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black_Widow

70% of webmasters will never reach that minimum. I have some money with Vivid from my Kardashian sites that never worked for me. I don?t think I?ll ever see that money.

With most programs, of course I can't speak for Vivid, but really most and I would assume all. If you are done and can't push anymore sales, you can ask for your payout. It's your money, I can't see why a program would have a problem with such a request.

teentime · 08-19-2008, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristin

When we are running five programs and have ten of thousands of webmasters it takes a little bit more time to comb through all the data and pick out the bad ones.

There you have said it yourself. "it takes a little bit more time"
Increasing the delay to payout might help reduce fraud.
Increasing the minimum payout does nothing to reduce fraud.

You may have legitimately chosen the increased payout method as a way of increasing the delay. Perhaps this will reduce fraud, yes, but it is certain to hurt a lot of small affiliates.

The biggest flaw in your technique is that a big time fraudster makes the minimums no problem and this cocksucker gets his payment pronto.

So in fact when you come right down to it, your technique only achieves more stress for the small affiliate and really does nothing to eliminate fraud on the worst scale.

kristin · 08-19-2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teentime

There you have said it yourself. "it takes a little bit more time"
Increasing the delay to payout might help reduce fraud.
Increasing the minimum payout does nothing to reduce fraud.

You may have legitimately chosen the increased payout method as a way of increasing the delay. Perhaps this will reduce fraud, yes, but it is certain to hurt a lot of small affiliates.

The biggest flaw in your technique is that a big time fraudster makes the minimums no problem and this cocksucker gets his payment pronto.

So in fact when you come right down to it, your technique only achieves more stress for the small affiliate and really does nothing to eliminate fraud on the worst scale.

Right, no matter what they do make the minimum. Do you know how much easier it is to spot a fraudulent person making over $200 each time in comparison to $50? A lot.
Thus saving time ...

And again, if you are an affiliate (big or small) that would like their minimum put back down, hit us up and we'll get ya hooked up.

Agent 488 · 08-19-2008, 09:37 PM

never worked for me - just emails that said "sure" and "i'll look into it" and nothing ... you seem like a smart guy doc, don't be naive ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

With most programs, of course I can't speak for Vivid, but really most and I would assume all. If you are done and can't push anymore sales, you can ask for your payout. It's your money, I can't see why a program would have a problem with such a request.

TheDoc · 08-19-2008, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budsbabes

never worked for me - just emails that said "sure" and "i'll look into it" and nothing ... you seem like a smart guy doc, don't be naive ...

I asked adultpaymaster for my $25 check, I got it with no issues. I have also been asked a couple of times for the payout on Webmasters that stopped pushing me, I had no issue paying.

I know some programs are just shit, some don't answer many Webmaster emails, but programs like Topbucks and the higher/better rep programs, this has never been questioned.

And hey, it's your money, bitch, yell, post and complain until you get paid. Either you will be paid or you will be screwed, no reason to let it sit in the middle.

teentime · 08-19-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristin

Right, no matter what, they do make the minimum. Do you know how much easier it is to spot a fraudulent person making over $200 each time in comparison to $50? A lot.
Thus saving time ...

And again, if you are an affiliate (big or small) that would like their minimum put back down, hit us up and we'll get ya hooked up.

That's a cool response. I like the way your mind works.
And I think it's very magnanimous of you to offer changing the payout for smaller affiliates that ask.
However I just can't buy the fraud angle, it's just not plausible, as my my grampa used to say, "in the computer age".
One has days and days of time, a lightening fast data stream and the ability to connect to established anti-fraud resources that run very deep, for that to fly.

There is obviously more to it then meets the eye.
And judging by the size and intensity of this debate I'd say my last observation is correct.

Antonio · 08-19-2008, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Any more non program owners wish to tell us program owners that fraud isn't an issue?

it is an issue, no doubt about it, that means that topbucks would have no probleml paying their affiliates once they reach the minimium + THE INTEREST eanred for the period the money was withold, that way we'll all know that this is purely about fraud, it's so fucking easy to do that. IS it going to happen? Nah, I dfon't think so

AGAIN! TOPBUCKS WILL MAKE SHITLOAD OF MONEY FOR WITHOLDING AFFILIATES PAYMENTS!

xxxjay · 08-20-2008, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranza

I just got this e-mail from TopBucks:

Dear Affiliate:

Starting on the September 8th payout, some of our payment options will have their minimum withholding amount raised from $50. Checks and Direct Deposit will now have a minimum of $100 and ePassporte will have a minimum of $200.

If you have any questions or concerns regarding your account, please contact us.

Thank you,
The TB Staff

Should I be concerned about this? Nothing good comes from raising the minimum payout so much, right?

I mean, I always reach at least $400 per pay period with them, but this move scares me a little.

Not only did their conversions dropped a lot to me recently, but they also seem to be delaying Epass payouts lately. I should have got my payment on the 15th, and it's already the 19th and the payment is not there yet!

Anyone else noticed this? Anyone else worried??

Dood...I spoke with the VP of Topbucks today on the phone. This is all about detecting fraud, having some extra time to catch people who are sending fradulant joins, and not paying them.

I know we've seen quite a rise in fraud over the last few months.

I don't blame them.

xxxjay · 08-20-2008, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

fraudulent webmasters can make a ton of money by doing one join a month from 50 different programs.
200 minimum gives you more join data to discover them. anyone saying otherwise should not speak in this thread. period.

Amen...this thread should have stopped here.

Sausage · 08-20-2008, 12:39 AM

Its definitely a blow to smaller webmasters or webmasters who promote a lot of sponsors and probably only send a few sales to each ... though I can understand the fraud thing. We find the same thing ... and its only getting worse. The sheer magnitude of affiliate fraud is widely underestimated.

BluMedia · 08-20-2008, 04:39 AM

TopBucks is right about the Epassporte fraud the past 6-8 months. It is definitely the preferred choice of the fraudulent webmasters. We are still paying weekly and with a minimum of 50 but we have a month delay in payments which is an awesome way to catch the webmasters doing fraud.

Mark

08-19-2008, 01:13 PM	#57
Snake Doctor I'm Lenny2 Bitch Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: On top of my soapbox Posts: 13,449	I think it's hilarious that the people who don't make $200 every two weeks consider themselves experts on the credit card fraud big programs have to deal with. __________________ sig too big

08-19-2008, 01:21 PM	#58
12clicks Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: God's right hand Posts: 19,787	I started reading this thread and my eyes started bleeding from the stupidity. __________________ I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

08-19-2008, 01:58 PM	#63
12clicks Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: God's right hand Posts: 19,787	fraudulent webmasters can make a ton of money by doing one join a month from 50 different programs. 200 minimum gives you more join data to discover them. anyone saying otherwise should not speak in this thread. period. __________________ I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

08-19-2008, 04:17 PM	#68
VeriSexy Join The Royal Family Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 25,463	Not worried at all... looks to be trying to prevent fraud __________________ Looking for a KICK ASS TEEN SPONSOR? Check out ROYAL CASH - THE KING OF TEEN! Incredible webmaster tools FHGs, Morphing Blog and RSS Feeds, Embedded FLV & WMV Videos. With TOP RATIO Sites like TeenStarsOnly.com - Earn $$ with our New Site & Bonus Payouts!! ATMovs.com \| iTeenVideo.com \| TeenSexMovs.com \| TeenSexMania.com

08-19-2008, 06:12 PM	#74
nekrom Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Australia/Asia Posts: 921	Affiliates should be greatfull that they have great programs to promote. If you don't like it bugger off and promote another program. -N __________________ Free Traffic

08-19-2008, 12:43 PM	#53
Manowar jellyfish Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 71,528	think this kind of fraud happened to naughty america and they also raised their payout recently http://www.businessvoyeur.com/2008-0...ops-epassporte probs the same people affecting them

08-19-2008, 02:01 PM	#64
Klen Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Little Vienna Posts: 32,235	I think you should allow 50$ minimum payout for webmasters who send sales for a while a leave that 200$ minimum to new webmasters only.

08-19-2008, 03:00 PM	#66
jscott So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Taipei Posts: 25,198	I hate it when sponsors raise payout minimums to over $50-100

08-19-2008, 06:56 PM	#75
suesheboy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: FL - TN/NC Posts: 5,211	drop them like a hot potato __________________ Adult Web Site Domain Names For Sale Adult Sex Toy Domain Names For Sale Tantric Delights, Sex Toys Blog, Tantric Sex Toys

08-19-2008, 07:02 PM	#76
Black_Widow So Fucking Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 381	70% of webmasters will never reach that minimum. I have some money with Vivid from my Kardashian sites that never worked for me. I don’t think I’ll ever see that money.

08-20-2008, 12:39 AM	#87
Sausage Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 3,012	Its definitely a blow to smaller webmasters or webmasters who promote a lot of sponsors and probably only send a few sales to each ... though I can understand the fraud thing. We find the same thing ... and its only getting worse. The sheer magnitude of affiliate fraud is widely underestimated. __________________ IW Skype : blance8888 Icq : 15567120

08-20-2008, 04:39 AM	#88
BluMedia Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,973	TopBucks is right about the Epassporte fraud the past 6-8 months. It is definitely the preferred choice of the fraudulent webmasters. We are still paying weekly and with a minimum of 50 but we have a month delay in payments which is an awesome way to catch the webmasters doing fraud. Mark __________________ IntenseCash - If you can't convert us then you might want to look for a new job . BrokeStraightBoys.com converting 1:124 stats counted by Nats