Barefootsies

I am too lazy to do a thread search, but some time ago I had posed the question to the board in regards to how, or if, you do loans to friends.

For example, I will get people who want to 'invest' or 'buy in' to my business from time to time. I am not interested in that, but depending on what I have going on. I have done a short term investment. They flip $5-10k, for a 6 or 12 month term and I pay them back 20%.

I have just used the money to do a shit load of shoots, or launch a new project, etc. So it's just quick influx of cash for me to do something with, and they make their return.

I think in my original thread, business partner was asking for $20,000 and offering 7%. Most of GFY said to ask for collateral and so forth to make sure he would pay it back. I opted to NOT loan him the money.

A few weeks later a different friend left his wife of 10 years. He had asked for $2000.00 so he could find his own place, and get situated whatever. I did what I always do on loans, especially since most friends can't take out, and pay back, a loan of this size back in a decent, reasonable time frame. Asked about his debt, and time lines etc. I have known this particular friend for 20+ years, and he had helped me out with different things over the past, so I chalked it up to calling in a favor.

Anyways, the 2 weeks pass. No payment, A month, no payment. 2 months, no payment. Not only no payment, but no excuses, begging for an extension or anything. So at the two month mark, I contact him and I am like WTF?!?!? He tells me he's working on it.

A week, maybe week and a half later, he shoots me an e-mail and asks for another $1000.00 because he was served with papers, needed to hire lawyer, and so forth. I laughed, and said I do not think so. Try making a payment. So he goes to one of our other friends, and borrows from him.

It's been a month, and neither have been paid. I told him that I am going to have to get some answers, a payment, or the deed to his board or something. I called him once more to ask on this loan, and his latest idea was to sell off his 500 lures on ebay. One catch. The lures are at his old house, with the wife he is divorcing, who changed the locks.

Long story short. For once, GFY advise spot on with the loan. I probably should have known better since most people can't borrow more than a few hundred bucks and pay it back timely. But because of the history, and favors, I took a chance.

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aico

you're an asshole.

can I borrow $5k?

Spunky

Money and friends don't mix.I guess you find out who you're friends are in the end.sounds like he's fucked up a bit financially.I'd be too proud to even ask my friends for anything

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Barefootsies

This about sums it up for ya.

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tical

that sucks, i remember that thread though

i've learned the hard way too, never lend people you know money... they will mistake your kindness for weakness & always put you as the last priority because every other bill without a face for some reason is much more important than yours & you can wait

never again (*cough* newbreed *cough*)

ah well

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Adam_M

Sucks to loan a friend money and not get it returned. Leaves a bitter taist in you mouth.

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aico

seriously though, make him work it off, he's obviously not going to pay you back anytime soon.

Barefootsies

I feel bad for him. But at the same time I do not.

He apparently has run up over $40k in credit card debit, and spent all but $8k (boat motor) on strippers and golf. Or so he has claimed.

I believe it to some extent. He has nothing to show for that amount of money, and he doesn't do drugs. So he must have lost his fucking mind in the strip club to lose that much money on some hookers.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

CDSmith

The most successful lenders are also very likely very good at pre-judging character.

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Barefootsies

Yeah. I should have known better from past experience.

Most can borrow a fiddy, or a few hundred, and can pay it back. But when it gets over $500.00 then people have a hard time paying. In my friend's case this time, he has made NO EFFORT. I mean, no excuses, or even partial payments.

That is what REALLY burns me.

I would be more understanding if you had made some effort at payment. But none?!? Then turn around and ask for MORE? Fucking ridiculous.

But what burns me the most is the perception that, 'you can afford it'.

My sister likes to play this game. She borrows a fiddy for example until pay day. On pay day, you do not ask for it, so she ASSUMES you do not need it. So you lose it. You may, most often will not, get it back.

So the next time she borrows a fiddy, you call her the minute she is out of work on pay day and remind her. Then every time you talk to, or see her, you remind her. She then is like, "WTF?!?!! You are hassling me over $50.00 when you have thousands in the bank?!!"

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KillerK

You just need to give to friends, and if they pay you back fine, if not ... you planned for that already.

dynastoned

lolll

i've lent money to so many people and been burned by most, family and friends included. its whatever and its really how you find out who has any real integrity.

the way i see it is don't lend money you're gonna miss. because more often than not you wont see it again.

personally i've never borrowed a dime i couldn't repay. if i did borrow money and i had to go broke to repay it i would and have. but what i've found is most people would rather just avoid you rather than pay you. more than anything i feel sorry for people who have to hide from their poor decisions rather than face them.

Barefootsies

I had to do that with my sister. She has to do my laundry, clean my house, among other tasks to work off the $1500.00 she owes.

It really becomes a hassle to enforce this bullshit when people do not understand the concept of 'borrow'.

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Barefootsies

So true.

There are some friends I would never loan more than $100.00 to. There are others I have known for 10, 15, 20 years. You tend to own them favors, or them you in such a long period of time. In THIS CASE, it was me thinking of the favors owes that overruled my better judgment.

When I have borrowed money from ANYONE, I have always paid interest. Depending on the dollar amount, I will even pay a premium. Just so everything is 'square' at the end. I hate owing people. So I try and balance the scale flipping back a bit more than borrowed.

It really sucks when you have to track people down, keep track of their bullshit, or deal with excuses. It really does leave a bad taste, and you wanna never help anyone out again.

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Barefootsies

Check-n-GoSmitty Inc

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tical

yeah man i know this 10000000%

going out with people & they want you to foot the bill or pay the most because you make the most... like wtf? you're not my child why should i have to do that... then when they get money they are greedy as fuck & cant even buy you a beer

people are strange that way, would be cool to be able to loan money through some kind of 3rd party that can be brutal & get your $ back w/o any remorse if it came down to it

you just let the person know you're agreeing to their collateral & good faith but once they sign the contracts & the $ is transferred then you have no more say in it at all

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Barefootsies

Amen to that shit bro.

There is nothing that burns me more than the 'you can afford it' disposition.

You are to pay for everything, or when you are looking at something like new golf clubs and you opt to wait. They chime in, 'why wait. you can afford it'. You just want to back hand them in the mouth.

My sister's remark infuriated me to no end. Not that she is the only one who's made a comment like that, but I had to tell her she can't have it both ways. You say if I do not ask, I do not need it, so you do not pay it. Then if I ask, I am being an asshole because I have money in the bank, and she needs gas.

She then when on to an even more ridiculous assertion with the whole, "let me hold" versus the "borrow" argument. How the language of the borrow defines if you get paid back.

My reply was, how about I end ever request for money with a, "No", and then I do not need to worry about the use of language, terms, etc.

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Voodoo

"My friend... I would like to explain something to you. There was a bridge between us at one time. Loaning you this money, without hearing back from you, or receiving any sort of attempt to pay it back has burned this bridge. The only way to rebuild this bridge is to pay it back, promptly.

I want to paint a picture for you. Do you recall how easy it was to borrow this money from me? If you don't recall, let me remind you... You asked for it. I gave it to you. Simple.

Now, I want you to imagine... In 6 months, 1 year or whenever... If you find yourself in another situation where you might need to borrow money again, and this bridge has not been rebuilt, what will you do then? How many other people do you have that will be so easy to borrow from? If you have many, I'd like to congratulate you and wish you the best of luck in life. If you don't have many others, I want you to consider what burning this bridge has done for your future financial tough times. If this debt is not satisfied in the short-term, I see no other option but to chalk this up to my mistake for loaning it to you in the first place, and move on.

I am quite disappointed in how this has turned out so far. I hope this can be resolved between us.

Sincerely,
Barefootsies"

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Barefootsies

Very nice and diplomatic.
Not reflective of my feeling at this moment, but probably the best course of action.

Love your avatar.

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Blingbaby

Loaning money to a friend of 20plus years is very different than an investment loan and I think you knew that when you fronted the money especially given the circumstances, divorce or separation from a long term relationship is seldom easy and usually full of drama, heartache and financial consequences. The only thing left for you at this point is figuring out whether or not you are a real friend or just another loan shark wannabe..

Barefootsies

I think 'real friend' is defined by those who took on the responsibility of borrowing the money on the loan, agreed to pay, and used the friendship as collateral toots.

This is a prime example of the fundamental flaw tidal, and I were referring to as to who is a 'real friend'.

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CDSmith

While I think I'm a fairly good judge of character, I'm not much of a lender these days. I used to not care, and loaned money freely, but like many here have said, once a few too many of your "receivables" turn into "thow-awayables" you tend to shut down the one-way flow and turn the TOUGH SHIT sign to face out.

Btw, if either of my sisters was like yours I would have told her to piss off long ago. Not that you should, it's just what I would do. If she had the cheek to say "you're quibbling over $50 when you have thousands in the bank" that'd be it. I have no patience anymore for deadbeats, but even less so for ones with that kind of mouthiness in them, family or not.

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Barefootsies

I feel you dawg. In a normal family, I would agree.

In my case, I have little family left. So sister, and niece are about it. Plus always need help. So you can help from time to time, and find a way to deal with the madness. Or you can expect to have them living with you.

For me. That is not an option. So I have had to make her like an indentured servant.

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CDSmith

Yes, I am definitely applying the situation to my own family. Your situation is obviously going to be different. In yours I would probably just knock off the whole "borrowing" thing and just give her a job, cleaning, washing or whatever else you have her doing, and just pay her (and take her debt $ slowly out of her pay). And while I'm at it tell her to get herself a decent boyfriend who can sugardaddy her.

Is she any good at cleaning, btw? Once she's paid off her debt to you I might have a job for her. :D

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Barefootsies

That is what I did Smitty.

She was doing just laundry, and cleaning, and other mundane tasks. Now I have her posting on forums, collection pictures, and running some shit for me when I am out of town on vacation or conferences. She is a bit slow, but she is getting it.

Having her do this, it makes it a bit less bitter in my mouth, and then I can flip her $100 a week, or take it off her debt, for 10 hours a week. So she is getting decent pay for the work, and helping work off her debt she otherwise would not be paying back.

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"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

CDSmith

Then it sounds like we are in sink.






see what I did there?

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Brujah

Only loan money to family or friends that you wished would just go away anyway.

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Barefootsies

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Barefootsies

I actually had heard that on some TV show just last week.

The guy was basically saying that he loaned money to a friend, and since that friend was never going to pay him back, it was a way to get rid of this guy he did not like. He basically avoided him, never called, and never showed back up. Which was just what he wanted in the first place.

Kinda of a pussy way out of a friendship, but thinking about it, works like a fucking charm!

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mrkris

It took me more than 2 months of emailing/calling, and receiving emails calling me a 'loan shark' because I was trying to get my $65 back I loaned a friend.

I don't care if it's $5 or $1000 -- the principle still applies, friends or not.

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CDSmith

This is, sadly, one of the truest things ever said. The last friend I loaned $100 to hasn't called or come around me in 5 years.

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Iron Fist

If you can't trust your friends.. who can you trust?

Ahh.. now your getting it.

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Barefootsies

Exactly right.

My business partner is this way. He is fucking ruthless if you owe him a dime. For example, if he buys water for the business. He will e-mail me every other day to remind me so he can take out the $5. Even thought the dude is like a millionare with his 30 properties, yacht (blew up now), car washes, half mil house, and so on and so on.

Fucking calling and e-mailing over small amounts of money. I see the point, but you are like, fucking damn.

When the table was turned though, I did it back to him. He had to borrow $4000.00 over the summer for something. He claimed it was bills, but coincidentally took his yacht out of dry dock same weekend.

Anyways, he was just going to borrow it for 2 weeks. So I let it go a few days, and started in with the e-mail reminders, and phone call messages, and so forth. It was out of character for me to do it. But I wanted to let him know how it feels.

Regardless, he paid me on time, and then bitched to his friends about me doing that to him. It was a new experience since he is normally the one who people are borrowing from. But, I wanted to show him just how fucking annoying that shit is.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Barefootsies

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JamesK

It's a good lesson. I dropped most of my "friends" because of this exact reason. Weeds out the bad people

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GrouchyAdmin

If you loan money to friends, it's not a loan, it's a gift. If you think otherwise, you have lost a friend.

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Voodoo

There's another old saying...
"If you have money to loan... You have money to lose."

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camperjohn64

I loaned $1000 to a friend and havent been paid back for a year. And I'm ok with it. He is in trouble and I don't care when he pays me back ever.

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Bojangles

That sucks.

Barefootsies

I guess I just never would have thought with a friend of 20+ years. Especially considering the history.

But I guess you just never know now a days.

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seeandsee

i loan 20$ to my friend in august to buy some cigarettes for trip, and guess what

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Barefootsies

He rolled some PHATTIES wit y'er $20.00?

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Vicious_B

I have never borrowed large amounts of money but the few times I have needed someone to float me for a week or so (this was years ago when my kids were real little) I would stress out until I could pay them back. I hate hate hate owing people money.

And no suprise all together I am owed over $6000 by various "friends"

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Barefootsies

Same here.

That is why I always pay extra on any money I had borrowed in the past. Same for those who want a short term investment. I'll pay them the premium, just so every one is 'even' at the end of the term.

Yep. I am owed, somewhere between $3-5k myself. This particular friend holds biggest one chunk. Others are a gf, sister, a few acquaintances.

It really sucks how money changes people. You DO want to help your friends, and if you are in a position that you can. You just wanna be able to help, and trust them. Basically applying those same rules I use. Paying back on time, and whatever.

One of my other friends from 20+ and myself are the only two people could borrow from. He was that guy back in school who you would sell your old baseball cards to, and get a $50 or 100.00 back in the day. So in our circle, either he, or I, or both, get asked for money.

I am starting to believe that, you are a better friend, by not loaning money to them. Regardless of need. Then you are saving them from themselves, and you still have the friendship. Especially for those that are long term.

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Manowar

Ditto.Exactly.

Barefootsies

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Barefootsies

I guess the morale of the story is simply do not loan money to (most) people.

In my sister's case, as explained in Smitty, I have to help her out. So, while a frustration, at least she will be working off her debt and I do get some value to the money back.

In regards to the friend(s) in the future, I simply will have to do what many people recommended in the original thread. Working up an agreement, taking collateral, and so on. If they are in that much need, they should be willing to fork over something work the same or greater value. Once they default, I sell it.

Or just do not loan.

It's sad you have to be that way. But the whole, 'you can afford it', argument to why they do not pay you back is a real pisser to say the least. I am not too proud to admit when I make mistakes. I have made many, and will make many more in my life. This one is just more complicated because of the long history.

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