My prediction about the pay site business - Page 4 - GoFuckYourself.com

FreeOnes · 11-01-2008, 04:45 PM

Wow am I still reading on GFY?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

Many in this business are convinced that as long as you have a 2257 link on your site you can simply screw the surfer with hidden and complex cross-sells etc. the prisons are full of those people who seriously and honestly didn?t notice that their billing practice will land them a nice long prison sentence, the sad part is that the average affiliate has no clue whats going on but should the govt. decide to turn this into a RICO case whereas the affiliates where part of a conspiracy to defraud millions of consumers we will see truckloads of people sent off to prison (yes even if obama wins).

Great post and thread

I did quote that part of your post, because I have said that too a couple of months ago. Most people here don't realize that. The people who are doing this are commiting real fraud and can end up in jail for a long time. "Just like in the normal world". Ripping of the surfers has its price....

SomeCreep · 11-01-2008, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

To me, it's short sited on the part of the girls and the companies. There's a lot more money the girls could be making with their own sites if they could stop thinking like strippers for one minute and see the big picture in long term thinking.

Lol, are you kidding man? I'm sure you know as well as I do, your average pornstar spends all their time partying, snorting coke, and fucking. No way they are capable of running their own sites. The few that do run their own sites only do so because they have someone else doing all the work, usually the poor hubby.

Nautilus · 11-01-2008, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Romero

Where is the lighting truck on a porn set? Exactly... it's not there.

Quit blaming the quality of the encoding on the computer or the editor and start blaming it on the lighting.

I never blamed it on encoding - as I've stated two times already, even raw unencoded footage didn't look as great as I had hoped for. I blame it mostly on camera (1/3" matrix against 35mm on film or similar sized matrixes of high end digital cameras), and lower dynamic range (7 stops against 11 of high end digital cameras and 13-14 on film). And lower resolution of course - 1280x720 against 4K .

Don't know why I hoped our new camera will produce footage that will look close to high end production to begin with

That was silly I guess.

I understand what you're saying about the the lightning though. Yes, that's part of the problem, but no lighting will give you the same results you get with 4K resolution, 1 inch matrix and 12 stops of dynamic range cameras.

I directed several shoots myself when we started shooting with the new HD camera couple of months ago, check this one for example:

http://media.ferrocash.com/video/ero...eland_g701.wmv
(no action, just girl changing several pairs of pantyhose of different colors to check how camera will handle different colors, textures, details etc)

To rule lights out of equation I lit the scene enough, and still image is not good enough imo to view at full HD. After downresing to about 900 pixels it looks fine but not at 1280. I've even intentionally overlit some other scenes to check if that will reduce grain, but no. Still a bit grainy and not crisp enough at full HD.

Again, maybe I'm just being overly critical.

Peter Romero · 11-01-2008, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nautilus

I never blamed it on encoding - as I've stated two times already, even raw unencoded footage didn't look as great as I had hoped for. I blame it mostly on camera (1/3" matrix against 35mm on film or similar sized matrixes of high end digital cameras), and lower dynamic range (7 stops against 11 of high end digital cameras and 13-14 on film). And lower resolution of course - 1280x720 against 4K .

Don't know why I hoped our new camera will produce footage that will look close to high end production to begin with

That was silly I guess.

I understand what you're saying about the the lightning though. Yes, that's part of the problem, but no lighting will give you the same results you get with 4K resolution, 1 inch matrix and 12 stops of dynamic range cameras.

I directed several shoots myself when we started shooting with the new HD camera couple of months ago, check this one for example:

http://media.ferrocash.com/video/ero...eland_g701.wmv
(no action, just girl changing several pairs of pantyhose of different colors to check how camera will handle different colors, textures, details etc)

To rule lights out of equation I lit the scene enough, and still image is not good enough imo to view at full HD. After downresing to about 900 pixels it looks fine but not at 1280. I've even intentionally overlit some other scenes to check if that will reduce grain, but no. Still a bit grainy and not crisp enough at full HD.

Again, maybe I'm just being overly critical.

Jesus dude... I clicked on that clip like 10 minutes ago, surfed all my myspace profiles and came back and it was only @ 45% buffered.

Listen man - Subject, lighting, format. In that order.

Translation to the oposite: Ugly overshot drugged out girl with bad skin, with 1/10th the light as an industrial film, with a consumer quality 1 chip HD camera = not worthy of HD. Or SD for that matter. No offense to your clip, it just came up after 10 minutes of buffering. She's a little muffin-top chunkster!!! Her boobs are good and she's actually kinda cute. Good casting.

I think your lighting is very good - nice an even and alot of Ambient which I love. But... it's still 1/10th the amount of light of a mainstream set. I like the mirror, I have one in my studio too - perfect for conserving and bouncing the light if you can keep the models from staring at themselves all day long. I'm guessing that you are at about 3.1 f-stop just think how good it would look @ f-8!!!

Hey EB - post an HD clip of some of that stuff I shot for you in Hawaii in 1440 X 1080i to show something with enough light worthy of HD. I was using two 4x4 gold reflectors in full sun and part-cloudy. If I was a mainstream shooter I would have used two 12 foot X 12 foot reflectors and a 10K on a high scaffold for fill depending on where the sun was. But, since I was tucked behind a rock and our lookout yelled "Nice Tushy!!!" whenever someone came strolling by... I did what I could.

Anyways... this is almost off subject here but - Talent, lighting, format, delivery and marketing. In that order. That's what I think will make or break a paysite these days. DRM sounds like the wave of the future too. But, I try not to think about all this too much - worry just gives me a headache. It will be safe to jerk off again I'm sure of it. Heck, I'm back up to 85% of my normal sales today. Every day thousands of girls turn 18 and looking to make a quick legal $100 Grand or more - and every day thousands of guys get sick of jerking off to the same old porno. My job is connect the 2, everything else is just entertainment.

Robbie · 11-01-2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomeCreep

Lol, are you kidding man? I'm sure you know as well as I do, your average pornstar spends all their time partying, snorting coke, and fucking. No way they are capable of running their own sites. The few that do run their own sites only do so because they have someone else doing all the work, usually the poor hubby.

They are absolutely partying their asses off. But there is no reason that you can't party, snort coke, and fuck...and not make a lot of money. I'm proof of that! LOL!

Seriously, I wasn't implying that they run their own sites. I was saying that IF someone with a creative direction, the skills, the knowledge, and the contacts took those girls and made sites for them with real focus and direction...and didn't have them shooting for every company every day, and protected the content from tubes and torrents, THEN money could be made.

Claudia-Marie wasn't in the adult business at all...except for being with me. I had her shoot for Naughty America in Jan. of 2007 just to see if she could do it. The feedback from their members was through the roof and Mark and Laura wanted her to come back and shoot, shoot, shoot.

But I said no, no, no. And started shooting myself for her own site. We started out with everything I had learned all these years. Having run tgp's since 1998 (real ones, not scripts) I knew what sold and what didn't. So we didn't do any of that softcore bullshit. We went straight to work and competed against the big sites. I had no desire to start another solo girl "Look at me with a dildo for the thousandth time site".

It exploded. Made more money than even I though it could. I was sure that members would get bored with a single girl. Nope. Not when you present it correctly and make sure there is interraction with the girl and the customers. (And that's something that tubes, torrents, and unfortunately megas sites can't do)

In my humble opinion...those girls in Porn Vallery are the equivalent of the true "porn stars" back in the 1970's and 1980's. They are FAR better known than the girls who shoot only for the DVD companies. Nobody buys those anymore. It's all "net" baby.

These girls are seen by millions and millions of people everyday. They are money...but not the way things are now. Right now they are just useless...very hot, but useless for making money.

And as you are saying...they only see that quick $1500 and the next party to go to. I know how that can be. And it's a big time dead end street for them. Claudia-Marie has been in the biz for a little over a year. She doesn't strip. She doesn't hook. She shoots twice a month for her OWN site.

She drives a new corvette, lives in this million dollar house, and doesn't have to worry about money. Recurring billing is a beautiful thing. And yeah, I know the idea is to pay the bitches one time and send 'em on their way to the strip club so they never have a concept of real money.

Well, that could be done too. You could take one and put her under contract. Pay her to shoot 5 days a week and work her ass off. Pay her everytime for every shoot. Almost like a "Contract" girl. But you'd have to real good. And you would have to be able to come up with interesting storylines.

We use a lot of comedy and pure cheesiness. It seems to work great.

Point is, the girls are getting paid their $1500. Production costs are still there for these companies (production crew, location, male talent, 2257, food, drink, etc.) and it's no longer paying off.

A few years ago surfers didn't even realize what an affiliate program is. Now, thanks to the "Webmaster Click Here For $$$" links all over hosted galleries and tours...plus the complete and total STUPIDITY of giving away every secret of the business (what affiilate programs are, what x-sells are, etc. , etc. ) to surfers right here on GFY...well, the surfer now knows the game is afoot.

So as some have said in this thread...to beat the tubes and torrents you have first have something unique that people want. Then you have to protect it.

I can tell you that making sales for the big companies is getting harder and harder and harder to do. Surfers now know how things work. They used to join a site and just stay. They didn't know that the hot girl with the big tits and big round ass was also on 200 other sites fucking too. And now they know she can be found on 200 FREE full scenes on a tube. That's a tough sell. Especially when the surfer can't talk to her on the site he's paying for.

Interraction is a good thing. Can't be duplicated.

BV · 11-01-2008, 10:12 PM

most internet users don't have the speed to stream 720 hd much less full 1080 hd

Peter Romero · 11-01-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BV

most internet users don't have the speed to stream 720 hd much less full 1080 hd

Right, that's why I encode in 3 bit rates: 3000kbps, 1200kbps, 500kbps.

Pick your poison. And jerk it till it squirts. And try not to get any cum on the monitor! Right Robbie?

By the way... nice fish in your Avatar - what kind is it?

BV · 11-01-2008, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Romero

Right, that's why I encode in 3 bit rates: 3000kbps, 1200kbps, 500kbps.

Pick your poison. And jerk it till it squirts. And try not to get any cum on the monitor! Right Robbie?

By the way... nice fish in your Avatar - what kind is it?

thank's it's a Jack Crevalle

you talking HD or SD?

i asume SD if your largest bitrate is 3000?

nico-t · 11-01-2008, 11:28 PM

kankerlang verhaal

Paul Markham · 11-02-2008, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlexxAeon

yes i get what you're saying but, again, quality of the content is only one in a combination of issues. whether content is worthy of being protected is in the eye of the beholder. joe blow with his average run-of-the-mill scene deems his content just as worthy of protecting as one of yours.

Actually I don't think a lot of my content is worth protecting. When we started shooting for the content store market we were hindered by the amount we could afford to spend on a scene. So we produced cut price porn. Also we shot porn for general sale, if we made it very different and stylized it would not of sold as much. We went for the easy fast money.

The Retro porn site Astral Blue will be using a lot of the tips Robbie is passing on.

Tickler · 11-02-2008, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalami

Just as a heads up -- this is not the case in Canada. Debit cards are not Visa or MC. Canadians without access to credit have no Visa or MC plastic in their wallets, only an Interac debit card that can be used at ATMs or point of sale purchase in Canada.

Actually I have a MC debit card, that I can load from my bank account. It works anywhere like a real MC. ATMs, POS, and online.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlexxAeon

That porn MMO... Red Light Center. Fucking brilliant.

I've been promoting them for over a year now, and am still amazed at their system.

Take Porn-2.0, mix in some facebook, myspace, blogs, forums, live chat, along with some WoW. And to top it off Virtual Sex on a recurring model === $$$s.

Bojangles · 11-02-2008, 12:55 AM

Nice post.

Paul Markham · 11-02-2008, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

about the same 20 LA pornstars fucking the same 10 stunt cocks on every hardcore site - the only hardcore program that is different is Bangbros/NastyDollars - they spend an incredible amount of energy/resources recruiting their own talent, even with all that they still probably use LA/Florida talent everybody else uses in 75% of their scenes.

it's absolutely impossible to find that many attractive females to do hardcore porn - you can do it for one site with a lot of work and time spent - but for more than one site, impossible.

One of the major reasons for this is our fault. We are to blame for the lack of talent available today.

Would you perform in front of a camera knowing your family will know what you are doing?

We have made more porn available for free for any girls kid brother, uncle, father, next door neighbor and everyone else that knows her than anyone. Girls now KNOW they are going to end up being found out. If they don't they are living in a different world to me. Today you can Google your name or your friends name and see what they are doing. Model directories who want the girls real name are a problem.

So most girls who do decide to show the world they can be butt fucked, double penetrated and generally abused do it for the money. They come in to the business with one aim. Make as much as possible by doing as many scenes as possible.

So we have a pool of fewer new girls to shoot for hardcore. We have loads of girls who have done 10 to 100 days available, but very few who have done nothing. Solo and girl on girl is not so tough, but not as easy as it was when people had to buy a video to see porn.

Paul Markham · 11-02-2008, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Romero

We need that upper 2% of the talent to drive sales - not new sites, story lines and programs. We are selling porn to people that have lots of choices and a more limited income than ever before. It's not boxes on a shelf, surfers are very picky especially if money is tight and they can only make 1 choice to buy.

You're singing my song.

Paul Markham · 11-02-2008, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Romero

Where is the lighting truck on a porn set? Exactly... it's not there.

Quit blaming the quality of the encoding on the computer or the editor and start blaming it on the lighting. The clip you posted was in full sun. The film granules (in this case pixels) are bigger - the less light there is - the oposite is lots of light filling out all the info on your HD tapes = High definition. But take out that light and demand the same detail, and have everyone bouncing around in the horizontal Mambo and you loose the affect that you were looking for with HD. That is why SD looks better in lower light - hence - a porno shot inside with all the windows drawn and lit with low output (miniscule compared to mainstream) lights - and lots of movement.

I've got alot to learn about editing and encoding but I do know alot about lighting and photography - the graphing of light if you speak Latin. The graphing of light... not fast moving unlit images in the dark.

I used to do lighting for mainstream movie sets - we are talking about 3-10 Semi trucks FULL of lights, ballasts, reflectors, flags, generators, and wires thick as snakes. Too bad we can't close down streets and get some 10K's out to light a set... no-one would ever complain about HD looking muddy ever again.

Most people see what a pro set up can do with a HD camera and think they can. Then discover they can't. Then tell you HD is the way to get sales.

LeRoy · 11-02-2008, 01:22 AM

The porn surfers still pay though and I'm getting sales and traffic increases across the board. I work my ass off though

Paul Markham · 11-02-2008, 01:28 AM

Another awesome post. But a few gaps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I think the problem is these girls are basically the female equivalent of "stunt cocks". They work the strip clubs at night, hook, and shoot for every site out there that will pay them.

In other words, it's not so much the same girls getting shot over and over again...it's just that they are shooting for EVERYBODY.

And then it's all over the place for free on the tubes and torrents.

You have the effect then the cause. Do you expect a girl studying, working or just unemployed to turn up to be shot by us so we can tell her family she's a porn whore?

Quote:

If Puma Swede, Sara Jay, Deauxma, Penny Flame, etc., etc. each were only shooting exclusively for ONE site it would be different. But these girls are making a living out of shooting. So when Naughty America says they have a shoot for one of them...that's an easy $1500 for a couple of hours morning work. Then Brazzers calls the next day. Bang Bros the next.

To me, it's short sited on the part of the girls and the companies. There's a lot more money the girls could be making with their own sites if they could stop thinking like strippers for one minute and see the big picture in long term thinking.

A model who thinks long term. Now that's a new one.

Or even a porn business who thinks long term.

This is the major reasons why very few models have sites of their own. Sponsors will not shell out the money it costs to keep them exclusive. Models will sign exclusive contracts, the problem is the model has a guaranteed $1500 a day from Bang Bros, Brazzers and a lot more the offers made for exclusive do not compete. I've had the top sponsors ask me to ask a girls to go exclusive. The offer they made is never enough. As you point out the girls can do loads of work at $1500 a day. Or even drop down to less. 50 x $1500 = $75,000. She might not earn that, but then she would not be one of the girls on every second site.

Quote:

Same with the companies shooting. There aren't enough "new" girls out there when some of these companies have 20 + websites that need updating weekly. So it all starts to look the same.

Today I ran over 300 new hosted galleries each on ShavedGoat.Com and Grampland.Com. There are thousands and thousands of galleries in the archives. Mostly just those same girls doing the same guys over and over and over.

When you combine that with the fact that EVERY ONE of the scenes is available for absolutely free on tubes and torrents...well, it doesn't work real well.

I'd take Puma Swede for instance...and create a website with "episodes" of her "adventures". And she would shoot for NOBODY except her own site. At least for a couple of years. And her site would be VERY hardcore. And the content would be protected.

That would make money. A lot of money. And you can insert Puma Swedes name for any of the other party/content/stripper girls in Porn Valley. They are all branded...hell almost "over-branded" if that's possible.

This problem could be solved very easily. But it would mean cutting the traffic budget and increasing the content budget.

Quote:

But you can't make a fucking dime on any of them the way things stand right now.

They are all hot, we love to watch them fuck, and if this was 8 years ago we would all be millionaires just running the hosted galleries on our tgp's.

The approach to this needs to change.

Yes you can if you give affiliates 75% rev share and $100 sign up Sundays.

We made our bed and now we have to lie in it.

Paul Markham · 11-02-2008, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

A few years ago surfers didn't even realize what an affiliate program is. Now, thanks to the "Webmaster Click Here For $$$" links all over hosted galleries and tours...plus the complete and total STUPIDITY of giving away every secret of the business (what affiilate programs are, what x-sells are, etc. , etc. ) to surfers right here on GFY...well, the surfer now knows the game is afoot.

Just a thought. do you think some surfers have been turned off buying by seeing what we pay for traffic?

Quote:

So as some have said in this thread...to beat the tubes and torrents you have first have something unique that people want. Then you have to protect it.

You missed one thing. You have to be willing to pay for it. This is the biggest problem with content. It's not that it can't be shot, it's that few will spend what it takes to shoot it. How many shooters do too many scenes in a day, shoot without decent lighting, make up, scenario setting because it's cheaper? Yes some do put more into content and it's awesome to your success.

Quote:

Interraction is a good thing. Can't be duplicated.

As I pointed out it can be done, but it costs money to sit a girl in front of a webcam inside a members site. Not as much as it costs to turn up at a show, we have set our priorities. Turning up at a show, getting pissed, throwing a party so you can look like a pimpin dude and spending loads of money is way more important to most than having Interaction or an exclusive model.

Peter Romero · 11-02-2008, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BV

thank's it's a Jack Crevalle

you talking HD or SD?

i asume SD if your largest bitrate is 3000?

High Definition. 1440 X 1080i. The 500kbps one is @ 640 X 480 because it looked like crap @ 1440 X 1080i.

I tried encoding @ 8000kbps and they wouldn't even play in my members area. Sux.

Nautilus · 11-02-2008, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Romero

Right, that's why I encode in 3 bit rates: 3000kbps, 1200kbps, 500kbps.

Pick your poison. And jerk it till it squirts.

So you stream HD at 3mbps, right? Do you have any stats on what users select more often, 3mbps or 1.2mpbs? What player size do you use?

testpie · 11-02-2008, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I'm not sure if "cropping" is the right word, as I don't see anything missing. What I mean is if I crop a picture I remove some of it. When I encode the 720 x 480 AVI over to a 640 X 480 .mp4 using h264 compresson it doesn't crop anything off...it just seems to change the aspect slightly, and makes it look "correct" My understanding is that is simply the change in pixel shape which accounts for the difference of 80 pixels in width for the entire movie. I hope that makes sense, because I know I'm not communicating this in the correct technical terminology.

I think the problem is that 720 x 480 is 16:10 aspect ratio, whereas monitor resolutions traditionally work from a 4:3 (16:12) ratio, hence the "squishing effect" you noticed which has been eliminated by scaling it to 640 x 480 (16:12 aspect ratio, a.k.a. 4:3).

And now to wait the obligatory minute and a half for someone to come out of the woodwork and prove me wrong. Life: If you're not being kicked when you're down, you're probably dead.

Zyber · 11-02-2008, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I'm using Adobe Flash Server. Converted all vids to h264 They stream rtmpe encrypted streaming.

Google it up and do some reading on it. The software cost a grand, and I have a guy on staff who takes care of my servers, so we compiled the neccessary system requirements and installed it ourselves.

After that, the only cost was in the man hours I personally spent re-encoding and uploading the members area to change all the old ones over.

I turned that into a silver lining by convincing my wife that it was finally time to spend 11 grand on my new Dell T7400 Dual XEON x5482 3.2 gig quadcore processors running 64 bit with 16 gigs of RAM. Heh-heh. Took me about one day to re-encode everything. (even the new ones as I came up with some new settings for h264 which got me much smaller file sizes and much faster streaming)

I always try to turn any adversity into an excuse for a new toy.

As for members...yes, it was very scary at first. I lost 20 or so members real fast and it scared the shit out of me. But then that stopped. Now I get about the same amounts of sales and rebills as I did before I started losing sales to tubes and torrents. Which makes me very happy!

I still have a couple of members who joined the first week we opened Claudia-Marie.com And that was the last coupld of days of April 2007. And I have plenty of members that joined in the rest of 2007 as well. So it definitely didn't drive away the faithful at all.

I also offer a VOD section which allows people who don't want to have a membership to download individual scenes for 10 bucks each. I use phantomflicks.com for that. Affiliates get credited for sales to that as well since I encoded the link from the tour page to follow their NATS code. I only offer the older vids from before I started the encrypted streaming.

So some of the older stuff still ends up on tubes and torrents. But I have removeyourcontent.com taking those down as well.

It's a pretty good one-two punch.

In my humble opinion, if you are shooting exclusive content...or even buying it....and you want to make sales then you must protect your stuff. The paysite model DEFINITELY works then.

But I will admit, it took a lot of balls and sleepless nights to go this route. I knew that something had to be done, but it was uncharted waters for me and if I had been wrong it could have ruined me.

That's why more people have not went this route yet. But if and when they do, it will result in more sales/rebills for everyone. It's just a hard business decision to make when there are millions of dollars at stake.

Great post!

Pleasurepays · 11-02-2008, 05:01 AM

jesus... an intelligent business discussion on GFY where one can actually read and learn.

the end is near

(great thread)

Robbie · 11-02-2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BV

most internet users don't have the speed to stream 720 hd much less full 1080 hd

Hey BV, the problem with streaming at high bit rates is one I spoke of earlier...it's not that surfers don't have the internet speed to stream at 3 mb a second, it's that the surfers computer takes the heavy load on their computer for a stream that size.

So if you were to watch one of my original streams that was encoded at a variable rate of 2 to 6 mb per second, and you were the average guy out there with a decent computer and a cable modem, you would be writing me complaining.

Why? Because you would probably have more than a few programs running in the background. (A lot of people have half their cpu running after they boot up and all the damn startup programs come on) and that wouldn't be enough to run the vids.

When I first did it, I looked at all my vids that were encoded at that "high" variable rate. Worked fine on all my machines including my laptop. So when people wrote me complaining I was trying to troubleshoot with them about their internet connection, thinking that was the problem.

Then, one day, it happened to me! The vid started "stuttering" and buffering. I was in a panic and had my guy checking the server and we were looking at the flash server admin and then pinging and tracerouting back to the server and from the server...But everything seemed to be fine.

Then I realized that my antivirus was doing it weekly "full scan" And that was all it took to take away just enough resources from my computer to fuck the stream up.

That's why you have to carefully tweak out the settings and get down into the 1000 to 1500 kps range. The h264 compression is a world better than all of the compression files we used before.

It took me a couple of months of struggling and then wrapping my head around it. I couldn't stop thinking that the higher the bit rate, the better. But it honestly just doesn't need to be that high. And if you do encode that high to stream, you're going to have problems on the user side as I just described.

By the way, I went out last night. Worked my ass off all week and sat at home trick or treating with the kids on Halloween. So last night at 9:30 p.m. Pacific time I went out to the Red Rooster swingers club here in Vegas and fucked the living hell out a tall brunette with incredible legs and ass. She's a gym rat who concentrates on her legs...but I digress...

Between 9:30 p.m. when I left and 8:30 a.m. Pacific time when I got back home...I have had 7,106 unique hits to Claudia-Marie.Com Not big compared to the mega sites. But that's because affiliates are out there still throwing their traffic at the wrong places

Out of that I had 18 joins, 3 VOD sales, and 31 rebills for a 1:338 ratio and $1,201.82 net profit.

So to get back to the original predictions about the paysite business: Yes, the subscription paysite model does still work. You just have to give them a reason to WANT to be in your members area. Not just some porn vids and pictures that they can and do see everywhere.

I'm pretty sure that BV, Barefootsies, tony404, and some of these other "small" guys are still rolling right along. And they always will. Even BlackVaginaFinder, who has pissed me off to no end with his disrespectful comments to me....he has found a niche and knows it inside and out and his customers get exactly what they want from him.

I think that the above mentioned people are going to need to start protecting their content a little more closely though. The tubes and torrents have just about played out all the stuff from Porn Valley. Niche guys may be next on the list.

If nothing else, at least hire removeyourcontent.com At least that can keep some semblance of sanity and sales to your sites by keeping your content to a minimum on tubes and torrents.

<spam> Any big tit affiliates that I don't have yet...if you want to make good money with a site that retains (and yes Vegas Ken, by protecting the content on a solo girl site you INCREASE retention because the members pretty much fall in love with the girl) then come on over and sign up at SoloSlutCash.Com and start promoting Claudia-Marie.Com </spam>

Jim_Gunn · 11-02-2008, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Hey BV, the problem with streaming at high bit rates is one I spoke of earlier...it's not that surfers don't have the internet speed to stream at 3 mb a second, it's that the surfers computer takes the heavy load on their computer for a stream that size.

So if you were to watch one of my original streams that was encoded at a variable rate of 2 to 6 mb per second, and you were the average guy out there with a decent computer and a cable modem, you would be writing me complaining.

Why? Because you would probably have more than a few programs running in the background. (A lot of people have half their cpu running after they boot up and all the damn startup programs come on) and that wouldn't be enough to run the vids.

When I first did it, I looked at all my vids that were encoded at that "high" variable rate. Worked fine on all my machines including my laptop. So when people wrote me complaining I was trying to troubleshoot with them about their internet connection, thinking that was the problem.

Then, one day, it happened to me! The vid started "stuttering" and buffering. I was in a panic and had my guy checking the server and we were looking at the flash server admin and then pinging and tracerouting back to the server and from the server...But everything seemed to be fine.

Then I realized that my antivirus was doing it weekly "full scan" And that was all it took to take away just enough resources from my computer to fuck the stream up.

That's why you have to carefully tweak out the settings and get down into the 1000 to 1500 kps range. The h264 compression is a world better than all of the compression files we used before.

It took me a couple of months of struggling and then wrapping my head around it. I couldn't stop thinking that the higher the bit rate, the better. But it honestly just doesn't need to be that high. And if you do encode that high to stream, you're going to have problems on the user side as I just described.

By the way, I went out last night. Worked my ass off all week and sat at home trick or treating with the kids on Halloween. So last night at 9:30 p.m. Pacific time I went out to the Red Rooster swingers club here in Vegas and fucked the living hell out a tall brunette with incredible legs and ass. She's a gym rat who concentrates on her legs...but I digress...

Between 9:30 p.m. when I left and 8:30 a.m. Pacific time when I got back home...I have had 7,106 unique hits to Claudia-Marie.Com Not big compared to the mega sites. But that's because affiliates are out there still throwing their traffic at the wrong places

Out of that I had 18 joins, 3 VOD sales, and 31 rebills for a 1:338 ratio and $1,201.82 net profit.

So to get back to the original predictions about the paysite business: Yes, the subscription paysite model does still work. You just have to give them a reason to WANT to be in your members area. Not just some porn vids and pictures that they can and do see everywhere.

I'm pretty sure that BV, Barefootsies, tony404, and some of these other "small" guys are still rolling right along. And they always will. Even BlackVaginaFinder, who has pissed me off to no end with his disrespectful comments to me....he has found a niche and knows it inside and out and his customers get exactly what they want from him.

I think that the above mentioned people are going to need to start protecting their content a little more closely though. The tubes and torrents have just about played out all the stuff from Porn Valley. Niche guys may be next on the list.

If nothing else, at least hire removeyourcontent.com At least that can keep some semblance of sanity and sales to your sites by keeping your content to a minimum on tubes and torrents.

<spam> Any big tit affiliates that I don't have yet...if you want to make good money with a site that retains (and yes Vegas Ken, by protecting the content on a solo girl site you INCREASE retention because the members pretty much fall in love with the girl) then come on over and sign up at SoloSlutCash.Com and start promoting Claudia-Marie.Com </spam>

Another great post, Robbie.

moyofun · 11-02-2008, 02:32 PM

Best Thread ever!

Respect!

GetSCORECash · 11-02-2008, 02:38 PM

Great Post Robbie!

Paul Markham · 11-02-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

jesus... an intelligent business discussion on GFY where one can actually read and learn.

the end is near

(great thread)

Agreed.

Nicky · 11-02-2008, 03:15 PM

Nice conversation going here. Just spent 30min on this thread

aleck · 11-02-2008, 03:19 PM

Well said

Cherry7 · 11-02-2008, 05:20 PM

Been away for a week or so and good to see an interesting thread.

It is cheering to us as well as it says a lot of things we thought when starting our site a couple of years back. Why do people want to join a site when for month after month when they can download it all in the first day?

So we made the join fee high $20 but the rejoin cheap $10 for 3 months... or they could join for non recurring 3, 6, or 12 months so that they could leave the files on our site instead of having them on their home/work/priests computer.

Surprisingly a lot of people join for more than the cheapest rate.

On the quality / quantity debate ...the demand for updates and quantity has made a race for the bottom both on content and quality.

I think punters don't want 100s hours they want really hot girls shot really well.

High Definition cameras are modern and very good but there is no high definition on the internet, Hell there is no standard definition on the internet. http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=511

Blu Ray is a compressed High Definition format and it needs 12 gig an hour. HD is a sales ploy - be honest.

We make less content but better, choose just the most beautiful girls, put them in a short erotic film, light it well, put some good music, say 5.1 sound...

where they going to get that on a tube site ?

RogerV · 11-02-2008, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

Seriously whats so hard to understand? If someone has 5000 porn files on their HD they are not as quick to join a site as if they would have nothing or way less?

If you have a DVD collection at home of 2000 movies you are not going to rent movies or buy them as often?

they dont need to save to there hard drive with all the tube sites and free content

Simple supply and demand and the free supply is out of control

tony286 · 11-02-2008, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Hey BV, the problem with streaming at high bit rates is one I spoke of earlier...it's not that surfers don't have the internet speed to stream at 3 mb a second, it's that the surfers computer takes the heavy load on their computer for a stream that size.

So if you were to watch one of my original streams that was encoded at a variable rate of 2 to 6 mb per second, and you were the average guy out there with a decent computer and a cable modem, you would be writing me complaining.

Why? Because you would probably have more than a few programs running in the background. (A lot of people have half their cpu running after they boot up and all the damn startup programs come on) and that wouldn't be enough to run the vids.

When I first did it, I looked at all my vids that were encoded at that "high" variable rate. Worked fine on all my machines including my laptop. So when people wrote me complaining I was trying to troubleshoot with them about their internet connection, thinking that was the problem.

Then, one day, it happened to me! The vid started "stuttering" and buffering. I was in a panic and had my guy checking the server and we were looking at the flash server admin and then pinging and tracerouting back to the server and from the server...But everything seemed to be fine.

Then I realized that my antivirus was doing it weekly "full scan" And that was all it took to take away just enough resources from my computer to fuck the stream up.

That's why you have to carefully tweak out the settings and get down into the 1000 to 1500 kps range. The h264 compression is a world better than all of the compression files we used before.

It took me a couple of months of struggling and then wrapping my head around it. I couldn't stop thinking that the higher the bit rate, the better. But it honestly just doesn't need to be that high. And if you do encode that high to stream, you're going to have problems on the user side as I just described.

By the way, I went out last night. Worked my ass off all week and sat at home trick or treating with the kids on Halloween. So last night at 9:30 p.m. Pacific time I went out to the Red Rooster swingers club here in Vegas and fucked the living hell out a tall brunette with incredible legs and ass. She's a gym rat who concentrates on her legs...but I digress...

Between 9:30 p.m. when I left and 8:30 a.m. Pacific time when I got back home...I have had 7,106 unique hits to Claudia-Marie.Com Not big compared to the mega sites. But that's because affiliates are out there still throwing their traffic at the wrong places

Out of that I had 18 joins, 3 VOD sales, and 31 rebills for a 1:338 ratio and $1,201.82 net profit.

So to get back to the original predictions about the paysite business: Yes, the subscription paysite model does still work. You just have to give them a reason to WANT to be in your members area. Not just some porn vids and pictures that they can and do see everywhere.

I'm pretty sure that BV, Barefootsies, tony404, and some of these other "small" guys are still rolling right along. And they always will. Even BlackVaginaFinder, who has pissed me off to no end with his disrespectful comments to me....he has found a niche and knows it inside and out and his customers get exactly what they want from him.

I think that the above mentioned people are going to need to start protecting their content a little more closely though. The tubes and torrents have just about played out all the stuff from Porn Valley. Niche guys may be next on the list.

If nothing else, at least hire removeyourcontent.com At least that can keep some semblance of sanity and sales to your sites by keeping your content to a minimum on tubes and torrents.

<spam> Any big tit affiliates that I don't have yet...if you want to make good money with a site that retains (and yes Vegas Ken, by protecting the content on a solo girl site you INCREASE retention because the members pretty much fall in love with the girl) then come on over and sign up at SoloSlutCash.Com and start promoting Claudia-Marie.Com </spam>

well said and we are chuggin along not breakin records but covering the bills so I cant complain.

Robbie · 11-02-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

well said and we are chuggin along not breakin records but covering the bills so I cant complain.

So then how do you explain all those diamonds that Mandy Blake was wearing at The Atlanta Forum? "chuggin along" ??? Mandy is the prettiest BBW on the web. Don't poormouth us Tony. I know you have a small fortune stashed away.

EscortBiz · 11-03-2008, 12:20 AM

Ill throw an idea out to you guys that will def help curb password trading.

Im aware of strongbox etc but not everyone uses it and many host on windows boxes etc.

Any 3rd party biller you use and obviously when you use your own merchant account you get postback data, customer name etc.

When someone logs in to your members ares show a link that displays their signup info, name address etc. I doubt people will go around posting their user and pass knowing that everyone who logs in can see their "original" info they gave when joining, and we all know how for some reason when joining porn people give their real info even if their email is a .mil or .edu (same people would use BS info if they where joining to view nytimes online)

BV · 11-03-2008, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

Ill throw an idea out to you guys that will def help curb password trading.

Im aware of strongbox etc but not everyone uses it and many host on windows boxes etc.

Any 3rd party biller you use and obviously when you use your own merchant account you get postback data, customer name etc.

When someone logs in to your members ares show a link that displays their signup info, name address etc. I doubt people will go around posting their user and pass knowing that everyone who logs in can see their "original" info they gave when joining, and we all know how for some reason when joining porn people give their real info even if their email is a .mil or .edu (same people would use BS info if they where joining to view nytimes online)

most passwords are hacked or compromised from other htpassword files and brute forced and tried on all sites, not posted by the real member

the best way to curb unauthorized user/passes is to of course use proxypass or strongbox, but most importantly don't let the member choose his own password, let the script generate it.

Nautilus · 11-03-2008, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

Ill throw an idea out to you guys that will def help curb password trading.

Im aware of strongbox etc but not everyone uses it and many host on windows boxes etc.

Any 3rd party biller you use and obviously when you use your own merchant account you get postback data, customer name etc.

When someone logs in to your members ares show a link that displays their signup info, name address etc. I doubt people will go around posting their user and pass knowing that everyone who logs in can see their "original" info they gave when joining, and we all know how for some reason when joining porn people give their real info even if their email is a .mil or .edu (same people would use BS info if they where joining to view nytimes online)

Interesting idea, thanks.

But wouldn't that possibly discourage people from joining next time?

EscortBiz · 11-03-2008, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BV

most passwords are hacked or compromised from other htpassword files and brute forced and tried on all sites, not posted by the real member

the best way to curb unauthorized user/passes is to of course use proxypass or strongbox, but most importantly don't let the member choose his own password, let the script generate it.

have you checked message boards recently? tons and tons of sites where people talk about user and passes and people asking for PM's to trade stuff, I run a ppv site if brute force and shit was the case id be in serious trouble as people would be using up others peoples minutes or getting new minutes etc

Tons of people trade or give out their info to others like its ok to do

EscortBiz · 11-03-2008, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nautilus

Interesting idea, thanks.

But wouldn't that possibly discourage people from joining next time?

They join dating sites dont they and cam sites and ppv sites that store their info

No they wont, it seems funny because for years we been using the same system in membership sites, pay, get user pass, login and thats it

P.S. you got some quality sites there never really checked them out might have to get some traffic going

Nautilus · 11-03-2008, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

We make less content but better, choose just the most beautiful girls, put them in a short erotic film, light it well, put some good music, say 5.1 sound...

where they going to get that on a tube site ?

That's some pretty interesting and unusual stuff you have there. Would love to check your flicks.

Guy de Maupassant, do Jesus. I felt like those folks who posted "am I still reading GFY?" in this thread

How do you find this new EX1 toy? Why did you choose it over Pani's HVX200/HPX170?

Quote:

High Definition cameras are modern and very good but there is no high definition on the internet, Hell there is no standard definition on the internet. http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=511

Well that's true to an extent. But still "internet HD" is still way better than "internet SD" because of higher resolution and better compression, and worth switching.

Anthony · 11-03-2008, 01:31 AM

Take this for what you think it's worth.

I opened up BOSBucks this year. Some of you would not believe me if I told you how many sales a day I do. I would also bet that those that don't are the same who go on about how the paysite model is dead, and that tubes, password sites, etc. is the problem.

I've always been taught to think outside of the box, and that was made more evident by my mentors in this industry. This thread has been excellent with sharing info. I plan to pick Robbie's brain more next time I see him. But some of you, Jesus Christ, blaming how video is shot, bigger harddrives, faster connections, I mean Fuck. How about taking that time complaining about it, and spend it finding other sources of traffic? Of making more money?

I just don't get it.

EscortBiz · 11-03-2008, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

Take this for what you think it's worth.

I opened up BOSBucks this year. Some of you would not believe me if I told you how many sales a day I do. I would also bet that those that don't are the same who go on about how the paysite model is dead, and that tubes, password sites, etc. is the problem.

I've always been taught to think outside of the box, and that was made more evident by my mentors in this industry. This thread has been excellent with sharing info. I plan to pick Robbie's brain more next time I see him. But some of you, Jesus Christ, blaming how video is shot, bigger harddrives, faster connections, I mean Fuck. How about taking that time complaining about it, and spend it finding other sources of traffic? Of making more money?

I just don't get it.

What exactly dont you get, that every business on this planet needs to change the way the operate from time to time in order to keep up with times?

Running after more traffic without tweaking your site and understanding what can hurt or make conversions better is STUPID!

Congrats on your program, I been updating my sites for many years about 10 sites with weekly updates on each spending a ton of money shooting stuff, im not basing my posts on 3 signups a day and being in this business 2 months, I been around I promote all types of sites have traffic from every possible source, my point being I speak from experience numbers and other data never lie!

Anthony · 11-03-2008, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

What exactly dont you get, that every business on this planet needs to change the way the operate from time to time in order to keep up with times?

Running after more traffic without tweaking your site and understanding what can hurt or make conversions better is STUPID!

Congrats on your program, I been updating my sites for many years about 10 sites with weekly updates on each spending a ton of money shooting stuff, im not basing my posts on 3 signups a day and being in this business 2 months, I been around I promote all types of sites have traffic from every possible source, my point being I speak from experience numbers and other data never lie!

I made it pretty clear what I don't get in this thread, I don't think I need to repeat it again.

I'm also pretty sure I know what I"m doing, as I"ve been running a 75PPS promo for the last 3 months, you don't do that if you don't know how to "tweak" your sites for conversions.

I've bought nothing but off the shelf content, and as one friend from an established program told me, I hit numbers that took them 3 years to get too. I've started shooting exclusive content, and will be protecting it. But to go on about hard drive size, or what format a movie is shot in, that to me makes absolutely no sense, because if it was true, I wouldn't be in business. I'm not saying tubes don't hurt us, that's about all I can agree on. We already know that's an issue, so why are you complaining about the surfer who will never buy? My point is, there's new surfers coming on every day, create and tailor your sites to them.

GregE · 11-03-2008, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

have you checked message boards recently? tons and tons of sites where people talk about user and passes and people asking for PM's to trade stuff, I run a ppv site if brute force and shit was the case id be in serious trouble as people would be using up others peoples minutes or getting new minutes etc

Tons of people trade or give out their info to others like its ok to do

Well, I feel a little better already. Just 10 minutes ago I canceled an idiot who's username/password I spotted on what looks like a Russian password trading forum.

EscortBiz · 11-03-2008, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

I made it pretty clear what I don't get in this thread, I don't think I need to repeat it again.

I'm also pretty sure I know what I"m doing, as I"ve been running a 75PPS promo for the last 3 months, you don't do that if you don't know how to "tweak" your sites for conversions.

I've bought nothing but off the shelf content, and as one friend from an established program told me, I hit numbers that took them 3 years to get too. I've started shooting exclusive content, and will be protecting it. But to go on about hard drive size, or what format a movie is shot in, that to me makes absolutely no sense, because if it was true, I wouldn't be in business. I'm not saying tubes don't hurt us, that's about all I can agree on. We already know that's an issue, so why are you complaining about the surfer who will never buy? My point is, there's new surfers coming on every day, create and tailor your sites to them.

tweaking your site?

I mean seriously you brag about 75 pps as if your a straight no BS member site that charges 24 - 29 bucks to join, you can load your site with junk and pay 75 pps here is your site to sum it up to those who dont want to visit:

You prommise on this page http://join.boxofsmut.com/signup/sig...DowOjE1&step=2

"100% FREE MEMBERSHIP"

Then you have them enter their credit card info and if they dont cancel within 2 days and dont uncheck the boxes they get billed about $90, I mean you call this knowing how to tweak a site? You brag how you pay 75 pps?

Terms and Conditions: You are joining as a trial member at a cost of $0.00 for 2 days. Unless cancelled, this will convert into a FULL membership for $39.95, rebilling every 30 days. You may cancel at any time.

Join Flat Out Porn for FREE! Tons of hardcore movies with tons of pictures, and video feeds, games and more! Hardcore movies in every niche you can think of! If not canceled within the 3 day trial period, subscription will automatically renew at $26.62 per month, until you decide to cancel. Your credit card will be billed as YAHECS.COM.
Join More Daily Porn for FREE! DVD movies at your fingertips, with almost every possible type of Porn filmed! If not canceled within the 1 day trial period, subscription will automatically renew at $23.32 per month, until you decide to cancel. Your credit card will be billed as YAHECS.COM 8662768151.

FlexxAeon · 11-03-2008, 02:27 AM

ruh roh!

......way past my bedtime anyway

Nautilus · 11-03-2008, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

They join dating sites dont they and cam sites and ppv sites that store their info

No they wont, it seems funny because for years we been using the same system in membership sites, pay, get user pass, login and thats it

Valid points.

But exactly because "for years we been using the same system in membership sites" I'm afraid of drastic changes. It's not that easy to change ways that worked perfectly for nearly full decade.

Times are tough and require rapid changes, true, but still, before making any changes, I always have our programmer to setup a switch in our admin panel to restore everything back in one click if something went wrong. Sure that adds more work and costs in terms of man hours, but having retreat plan is the only way for me to feel secure. Do not like to bet everything on one card and burn bridges.

Quote:

P.S. you got some quality sites there never really checked them out might have to get some traffic going

Thanks. If there's anything you need my help with, hit me up.

Anthony · 11-03-2008, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

tweaking your site?

I mean seriously you brag about 75 pps as if your a straight no BS member site that charges 24 - 29 bucks to join, you can load your site with junk and pay 75 pps here is your site to sum it up to those who dont want to visit:

You prommise on this page http://join.boxofsmut.com/signup/sig...DowOjE1&step=2

"100% FREE MEMBERSHIP"

Then you have them enter their credit card info and if they dont cancel within 2 days and dont uncheck the boxes they get billed about $90, I mean you call this knowing how to tweak a site? You brag how you pay 75 pps?

Terms and Conditions: You are joining as a trial member at a cost of $0.00 for 2 days. Unless cancelled, this will convert into a FULL membership for $39.95, rebilling every 30 days. You may cancel at any time.

Join Flat Out Porn for FREE! Tons of hardcore movies with tons of pictures, and video feeds, games and more! Hardcore movies in every niche you can think of! If not canceled within the 3 day trial period, subscription will automatically renew at $26.62 per month, until you decide to cancel. Your credit card will be billed as YAHECS.COM.
Join More Daily Porn for FREE! DVD movies at your fingertips, with almost every possible type of Porn filmed! If not canceled within the 1 day trial period, subscription will automatically renew at $23.32 per month, until you decide to cancel. Your credit card will be billed as YAHECS.COM 8662768151.

I also pay $30PPS for No Cross Sales or Consoles to all of my affiates, which has the same content, and quite a few of them send traffic too.

I'm sure you thought you found a reason to blame why I'm successful and you aren't and bitching about hard drive space.

EscortBiz · 11-03-2008, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

I also pay $30PPS for No Cross Sales or Consoles to all of my affiates, which has the same content, and quite a few of them send traffic too.

I'm sure you thought you found a reason to blame why I'm successful and you aren't and bitching about hard drive space.

I mean seriously get real im here talking about legit sites with real content that have real concerns (I spend over 30k a week in updates and been doing so for many years) and you are bringing your BS tours here that tell a surfer its free and bill him 90 bucks I mean come on, and figuring out ways to make sites work better means im not successful?

So you come here yelling how we would all be shocked on the numbers you do blah blah blah and you pay 75 pps.

If you would take the time to read what was written rather then jumping and repeating the word hard drive over and over again as if thats what this thread is all about maybe you would learn something and youd be able to run a legit site and invest real money in content and get a few signups here and there (and be able to use good well respected billers).

Paul Markham · 11-03-2008, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

On the quality / quantity debate ...the demand for updates and quantity has made a race for the bottom both on content and quality.

Well when you want more content, shot with more expensive cameras and don't pay anymore what do people expect? Too many buy exclusive on price and really get something non exclusive. OK different sofa/girl combination but the rest is all the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

Ill throw an idea out to you guys that will def help curb password trading.

Im aware of strongbox etc but not everyone uses it and many host on windows boxes etc.

Ray and Strongbox are the top s in my books. These password traders in my experience are the ones auto downloading and trying to grab the whole site. And probably the ones uploading to P2P, Tubes and anything else.

For those who bother to read my posts, this is my opinion.

We need to change who we sell to. In the main we sell to ourselves to get traffic and what pleases us does not always please members. Traffic and surfers are important, just not as important as members are today. So we need to look at what they want and not what we can get out of them or get away with when giving to them.

It's the members area that pays the money that makes all this possible. Without it there is no money and no traffic worth having. So we need to identify what people will buy and why they buy. Then concentrate on that before anything else.

Members want content that turns them on. They are not new to buying or viewing porn, the more niche the porn the more the buyer will be into it. He knows the little points that make a good niche scene a great one and missing them makes them a crap one. If you don't he does know the niche.

He wants to buy with his credit card with confidence. These guys are not impulse buyers and not one off buyers either. They buy porn on a regular basis. One site disappointing him off he will forgive, half the sites on the Net doing it and he will decide to be a lot more cautious. We need these guys to buy month in and month out. They spend $300 and upwards a year, everyone we lose to Tubes is another $300 off our industries turn over. Think of that now in terms of the way Tube sites traffic has exploded.

Now think of him as your customer, your paymaster and your friend. He's the guy who comes into your shop and buys so you can pay the rent and feed your family. Most of all he's the guy you really need.

And yes there are sites doing exactly this, just not enough obviously. Other wise we would not be losing so many members to Tube sites.

11-02-2008, 01:22 AM	#166
LeRoy Porn Pusher Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: It's a dry heat Posts: 13,213	The porn surfers still pay though and I'm getting sales and traffic increases across the board. I work my ass off though __________________ JAPANESE CAMS AND CONTENT SITES Skype - leroy.rowland2

11-02-2008, 02:32 PM	#176
moyofun Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 90	Best Thread ever! Respect! __________________ Moyo-Cash 60% Lifetime Revshare!! http://moyogirls.com/webmasters http://q-babes.com/linkex for linktrade

11-02-2008, 02:38 PM	#177
GetSCORECash Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 5,527	Great Post Robbie! __________________ \| skype: getscorecash \| ICQ: 59-271-063 \| New Sites: \| SCORELAND2 \| Roku Channel SCORETV.TV \| 60PLUSMILFS \| \| Big Tit Hooker \| Tits And Tugs \| Big Boobs POV \| Karla James \| \| Naughty Foot Jobs \| Linsey's World \| Busty Arianna Sinn \| Get SCORE Cash \|

11-02-2008, 03:15 PM	#179
Nicky Judge Jury and Executioner Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 30,046	Nice conversation going here. Just spent 30min on this thread __________________ Hardlinks and blog posts available on a popular blog with DR 43 and over 3000 referring domains. gfynicky @ gmail.com

11-02-2008, 03:19 PM	#180
aleck Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 940	Well said __________________ come trade shemale traffic here

11-01-2008, 10:12 PM	#156
BV wtf Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Bikini State, FL USA Posts: 10,914	most internet users don't have the speed to stream 720 hd much less full 1080 hd

11-01-2008, 11:28 PM	#159
nico-t emperor of my world Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: nethalands Posts: 29,904	kankerlang verhaal

11-02-2008, 12:55 AM	#162
Bojangles Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,419	Nice post.

11-02-2008, 05:01 AM	#173
Pleasurepays BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I live in a pile of boogers Posts: 11,913	jesus... an intelligent business discussion on GFY where one can actually read and learn. the end is near (great thread)

11-02-2008, 05:20 PM	#181
Cherry7 Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	Been away for a week or so and good to see an interesting thread. It is cheering to us as well as it says a lot of things we thought when starting our site a couple of years back. Why do people want to join a site when for month after month when they can download it all in the first day? So we made the join fee high $20 but the rejoin cheap $10 for 3 months... or they could join for non recurring 3, 6, or 12 months so that they could leave the files on our site instead of having them on their home/work/priests computer. Surprisingly a lot of people join for more than the cheapest rate. On the quality / quantity debate ...the demand for updates and quantity has made a race for the bottom both on content and quality. I think punters don't want 100s hours they want really hot girls shot really well. High Definition cameras are modern and very good but there is no high definition on the internet, Hell there is no standard definition on the internet. http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=511 Blu Ray is a compressed High Definition format and it needs 12 gig an hour. HD is a sales ploy - be honest. We make less content but better, choose just the most beautiful girls, put them in a short erotic film, light it well, put some good music, say 5.1 sound... where they going to get that on a tube site ? __________________ My Neighbour Butterfly PORN-The Musical The Long Goodbye Cinema Erotique

11-03-2008, 12:20 AM	#185
EscortBiz Fuck Checks, CASH only! Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 19,422	Ill throw an idea out to you guys that will def help curb password trading. Im aware of strongbox etc but not everyone uses it and many host on windows boxes etc. Any 3rd party biller you use and obviously when you use your own merchant account you get postback data, customer name etc. When someone logs in to your members ares show a link that displays their signup info, name address etc. I doubt people will go around posting their user and pass knowing that everyone who logs in can see their "original" info they gave when joining, and we all know how for some reason when joining porn people give their real info even if their email is a .mil or .edu (same people would use BS info if they where joining to view nytimes online) __________________ Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts ICQ# 158802076

11-03-2008, 01:31 AM	#191
Anthony Keyboard Warrior Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: One of the outer rings of Hell Posts: 9,653	Take this for what you think it's worth. I opened up BOSBucks this year. Some of you would not believe me if I told you how many sales a day I do. I would also bet that those that don't are the same who go on about how the paysite model is dead, and that tubes, password sites, etc. is the problem. I've always been taught to think outside of the box, and that was made more evident by my mentors in this industry. This thread has been excellent with sharing info. I plan to pick Robbie's brain more next time I see him. But some of you, Jesus Christ, blaming how video is shot, bigger harddrives, faster connections, I mean Fuck. How about taking that time complaining about it, and spend it finding other sources of traffic? Of making more money? I just don't get it. __________________

11-03-2008, 02:27 AM	#196
FlexxAeon Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,765	ruh roh! ......way past my bedtime anyway __________________ flexx [dot] aeon [at] gmail